Electric Vehicles? (EVs)

[+ JEC]

I bought my first electric vehicle this year, a (used) BMW i3.  There are definitely pros and cons, so far the pros outweigh the cons for me.   Any other EV owners out there?

My car has a Range Extender, a small gas engine which acts as a generator (produces power, does not power the wheels).   Most importantly, the range extender means not worrying about running out of power.  For me, without the range extender (which is an option) this car would not be viable for me.  New, this car is over priced ($50k) but at 3 years old you can pick up for half that.   I found a 3 year old with 15k miles and traded my Audi A4 (which I loved).

Pros:

• Fun to drive (nimble)
• Great acceleration
• Low cost to drive (low maintenance, no combustion engine)
• For daily driving, never need to go to gas station
• Green - pro-environment (I know we need to burn carbon to charge, over time can be replaced with wind solar and non-carbon fuel sources)

Cons:

• Long trips are a pain.  Long stops to charge adds time to trips
• Charging station networks need to be built out
• Stated "range" is misleading, basically only achievable under perfect conditions
• Without a range extender, risk of battery dying on the road

Any EV experiences to share?

 

Edited June 3, 2021 by JEC

[+ MysticMenace]

my regular masseur took me on a ride with his EV, a Tesla, to grab some dunkin donut iced coffee after some "hard" and "throbbing" massage work... I like it, but my Tesla fever had gone down since I rode in it though. my car still works, so it'll be a long while till I get a new car.

[MikeBiDude]

Just bought a Tesla X late last year. Love it! I’ve not done a ”road trip” yet using supercharger stops etc. My work route usually under 100 miles daily, sometimes 200+, no issues so far. I charge to 80% most of the time.

[+ Just Sayin]

I bought a Tesla Model 3 late last year; I loved my Volvos, but only "appreciated" my Priuses; now I love my Tesla; during the week, I charge it at home during late evening off-peak hours; I have driven it from Tucson to LA and back once and from Tucson to Palm Springs and back twice; stopping for charges does take a bit more time but I do not seem to mind it; you get a chance to grab a bite to eat and do a little exploring, and then it's time to be on your way; I have found the car to be well-engineered and I am happy I am not directly using fossil fuels to get from A to B.

[mike carey]

10 hours ago, JEC said:

Green - pro-environment (I know we need to burn carbon to charge, over time can be replaced with wind solar and non-carbon fuel sources)

I have read research here, that in NSW which has the most carbon intensive power generation sector in the country, using grid power to charge an EV causes less carbon emissions than using an internal combustion engine. Where I live in the ACT the grid electricity is 100% renewable.

[Caliboy95]

I bought a Tesla Model 3 at the beginning of the year. So far, I love driving my car. I find it convenient charging my car at home every night or every other night.

[gallahadesquire]

I think what will really make electric vehicles viable, is the ability to drop you off, go to a faster-than-at-home charging stations get charged and them drive them selves back. 
 

self-driving will have to wait until the cars themselves talk to each other, to know where they are and where they are going. This would make self-driving far safer. 

Edited June 6, 2021 by gallahadesquire

[BeamerBikes]

Resurrecting an existing thread.  My experience - I switched from a BMW 323i -> 335d to a Mercedes B-250 EV (1st gen Tesla tech powered) when my commute drastically shrunk.  I was going from 60 miles all highway to 6 miles standard city driving.  I would have killed the 335d with carbonization.  

The Mercedes B-250 only gets 100 miles at best during the summer.  65 miles at at best during the winter.  Good enough for 95% of my driving.  I'd rent a car for the longer road trips.  When an out of state friend got sick, this REALLY sucked.  Combine that with a fatal flaw for Tesla 1st gen motors causing a motor replacement AND Mercedes turning its back on this EV compliance car.  I traded it last year before the warranty was up.  

On 6/2/2021 at 5:00 PM, JEC said:

Pros:

• Fun to drive (nimble)
• Great acceleration
• Low cost to drive (low maintenance, no combustion engine)
• For daily driving, never need to go to gas station
• Green - pro-environment (I know we need to burn carbon to charge, over time can be replaced with wind solar and non-carbon fuel sources)

Cons:

• Long trips are a pain.  Long stops to charge adds time to trips
• Charging station networks need to be built out
• Stated "range" is misleading, basically only achievable under perfect conditions
• Without a range extender, risk of battery dying on the road

All of these comments were true for the i3 and my Mercedes experience - The B-250 had NO fast charging option.  To get another 65-100 miles range it was going to take at best 3.5 hours.  

This car was definitely city/close suburban use ONLY.  Not bad for a 2nd car daily driver, or if you had an in- at Hertz/National for the times you needed to rent one.  

THIS IS DEFINITELY THE EARLY EARLY ADOPTER EXPERIENCE FOR EVs.  NOT EVs COMING OUT NOW.  

[BeamerBikes]

Armed with the 2.5 years of EV experience, I went hunting for the next car.  The plan was to trade the Mercedes B-250, and buy new for the tax credit $7500. I had my eye on the Ford Mustang Mach-E. There were some notable drawbacks though.  In the Summer 2021, it took forever to find one to test drive. It took even longer to order one, and I wasn't going to pay over sticker for any car. The Mach-E colors and overall design didn't really call out to me. No door handles what so ever spooked me.  At least with Tesla, there's flush door handles, but since not 100% dependent on the car's battery staying charged.  After test driving, I was even less impressed with the standard Mach-E.  The range numbers seemed impressive compared to the B-250, but quickly discovered the best range numbers came with performance limiters.  So yeah - definitely would want to upgrade to the extended range battery - I don't want to be forced to drive like a grandma.  Nonetheless, I asked about delivery timelines - if I ordered in July, I could expect it maybe in November.  My warranty was up in July so that's a no go.     

On a lark, I went to the Volvo dealer down the way. I befriended a bunch of Nordics so while I didn't consider the Volvo brand, I figured what the hell.  Volvo went big into EVs in 2021 in the US market, but didn't market them until the Fall 2021.  The dealership had chargers up front. This shows a commitment that they are serious about sticking with EVs.  I test drove the XC40 and HOLY SHIT THIS WASHING MACHINE/ARMORED CAR IS FAST.  Range unsurprisingly is only around 220 miles at best, but that's double what my Mercedes got me and it worked for most of my drives.  Plus it included DC fast charging. DC fast charging will give me 100+ miles plus in 20 minutes.  I routinely do trips of 200+ miles in a single day these days.  I could go longer, but I don't like sitting in the car that much.   

I'll bullet-point this experience in the next post. 

[BeamerBikes]

2021 XC40 Recharge all electric with a 78kWH battery. 

Pros:

• Fun to drive (nimble)
• Great acceleration 0-60 in 4.7 seconds.
• Decent Range of 160-220 miles costing about $2 to $4 per charge-up at home
• DC fast charging stations along most interstates
• Level 2 - 240VAC chargers access is better in most cities/suburbs now.  Sometimes free.
• Low cost to drive (low maintenance, no combustion engine)
  • Brakes last longer because it will regen using the motor to charge the battery
  • Lots fewer engine/transmission parts to break
• For daily driving, never need to go to gas station or even a non-home charging station.  
• Green - pro-environment (I know we need to burn carbon to charge(still more efficient than running small engines), over time can be replaced with wind solar and non-carbon fuel sources)

Cons:

• Long trips take a little planning with an app of course. 
  • Estimate that for every 150 miles, you're going to stretch/grab a bite to eat/etc for about 30 minutes. 
• Fast Charging station networks need to be built out. 
  • Fast charging will cost more to "fill up" but only used on road-trips.   
  • This is not the car for you YET if you expect to routinely travel across the Great Plains/Rockies.
• Don't expect to use the standard wall outlet for charging everyday
  • You'll want to install an 240VAC circuit for at-home charging.
    • I can fully charge on 240VAC (North America) within 8 hours or so.   
• Stated "range" is misleading, basically only achievable under perfect conditions
  • Ask drivers before buying what their driving style and realistic range is.  
• Do NOT buy a new EV without DC Fast Charging option. 
• Seriously research if you're buying an used EV without DC fast charging, it's most definitely NOT a car you will want to take on a road-trip 100+ miles at a stretch.   

[+ Charlie]

For a number of years, we have had two cars, one suitable for long trips (most of our vacation travel in the US is by car) and one mostly for daily driving around town. This made sense when we both drove, and often went separate ways. Now that my spouse can no longer drive, it doesn't make sense to have two cars, so when the lease on the daily driver (a Kia Soul) expires at end of this year, we are going to become a one car family. The problem is that our other car is a Mercedes SUV, which uses premium gas and a lot of it. What we need is a car that is large enough and comfortable enough for long days on the road (sometimes 400-500 miles) with bulky luggage, but isn't a gas-guzzler. Until someone makes an EV with much more range than any of them have now, I don't see that as an option. At the moment I am leaning toward a Hybrid SUV, like a Toyota Highlander or a Honda CR-V, because we have owned Priuses in the past, and they have some of the plusses of both EVs and regular gas engines.

[BeamerBikes]

59 minutes ago, Charlie said:

Until someone makes an EV with much more range than any of them have now

What's your range expectations? In a 400-500 mile trip, I'd expect to stop for gas/pee/stretch legs at least twice at a go.  I wouldn't have a problem doing that in the XC40 with fast charging.  Fast charging will be the big difference more so than range.  20-30 min pit stop is enjoyable. 

Going from Chgo to DC in the winter is about the only trip I'd say heck no without an overnight.  I've done it in an ICE van in one go, and it sucked. 

[+ Charlie]

12 minutes ago, BeamerBikes said:

What's your range expectations? In a 400-500 mile trip, I'd expect to stop for gas/pee/stretch legs at least twice at a go.  I wouldn't have a problem doing that in the XC40 with fast charging.  Fast charging will be the big difference more so than range.  20-30 min pit stop is enjoyable. 

Going from Chgo to DC in the winter is about the only trip I'd say heck no without an overnight.  I've done it in an ICE van in one go, and it sucked. 

I do stop often on a 400-500 mile drive, but not necessarily at a place where it will be quick and easy to charge an EV--maybe in the future, but not now in the Sierras or west Texas, places where I commonly travel, where it is not that hard to find gas.

[BeamerBikes]

28 minutes ago, Charlie said:

the Sierras or west Texas,

Yeah, West Texas has good coverage as long as you near an interstate.  I use PlugShare app and website to check out charger options both Fast Charger and the medium speed Level 2 chargers.  Sierras is abit too big of an area to say.  

[BuffaloKyle]

I have been thinking more and more about getting an EV. Couple questions for guys who own one. One is an expert on TV said one drawback is insurance costs are a lot more expensive than a regular car due to the newness of EVs still and a lack of track record on repair costs down the line. Would like to know what your insurance payments are and also for that $7500 tax credit that is only if you buy a brand new one? And is it a refundable or non-refundable credit? Thanks.

[Luv2play]

I have absolutely no incentive to switch to an EV here in Ontario Canada. Our provincial government which came to office 4 years ago and are facing an election this June canceeled all support of EVs on taking power. Tax incentives, building out chaeging stations (they even took the few thre were out). Some municipalities have reinatated some but nowhere near enough.

We are so far behind Quebec and British Columbia it will take years to catch up. And I'm saddled with three cars all for diffrent purposes but as I get older my needs are simplifying. I would trade in all three for an EV that suited my purposes but there are none at this point. 

I need something for everyday short distance driving but evert month a car that will take me to Toronto or Montreal which are hundreds of miles away. And renting is not really an option as we have no rental outlets where I live.

[BeamerBikes]

5 hours ago, BuffaloKyle said:

Would like to know what your insurance payments are and also for that $7500 tax credit that is only if you buy a brand new one? And is it a refundable or non-refundable credit?

Insurance payments were about the same as my BMW 335d when I was on Allstate. I recently changed to Metromile.  I pay $30/month base plus .05/mile per driven.  Works out to about $50-70/month.  

Two friends have Teslas and they reported that insurance was only slightly more than the previous old cars.  Hard to judge apples to apples. One is mid 40s, the other late 20s.  

US Federal tax credit has been phased out for any brand selling more than 200k EVs. Teslas and GM are no longer eligible since they sold their initial allotment. There's a smaller credit for hybrids too.  It's only on new car purchases.  States have some new credits coming too.  It is a nonrefundable tax credit.  Meaning that if your total tax bill (includes what they took out of your paycheck through out the year) is less than $7500, you only get back whatever your tax bill would have been not the full $7500.  There's some tax incentives as well for installing charging infrastructure at home. 

 

[BeamerBikes]

5 hours ago, Luv2play said:

need something for everyday short distance driving but evert month a car that will take me to Toronto or Montreal which are hundreds of miles away. And renting is not really an option as we have no rental outlets where I live.

Sadly, I agree best fit for your purposes would be a hybrid option. Electric for 30 miles and less, then ICE takes over. I'm not crazy about them because it seems like 2 different power trains that could break and more complexity to work together. 

[dbar123]

I can’t imagine getting an EV at this point. I live in a city and rarely drive my car. Since September I’ve only filled the tank about twice.

Mass transit is a better investment 

[alrajee]

My friend gave me a ride on his Tesla and I'm sold. Until he told me the price. 

Since I hardly drive now (my work has transitioned to fully remote), I don't see a reason to switch. Sure, gas prices are insane, but with how little I use my car, I can live with the expense.

Edited March 20, 2022 by alrajee

[+ Bryan Dube]

I just don't see how this is viable for non-home owners at this point. Without a fast charging capable network fully built out and readily available across the country, it doesn't seem easy for apartment or condo dwellers to find a dedicated space to charge. Am currently in the market for a vehicle for my move to Los Angeles later this year, but am considering going with a hybrid (lexus hybrid) as i'll likely be renting and living in an apartment for the short term (as well as doing the 6 hour drive regularly up into the bay area). 

[gallahadesquire]

47 minutes ago, Bryan Dube said:

I just don't see how this is viable for non-home owners at this point. Without a fast charging capable network fully built out and readily available across the country, it doesn't seem easy for apartment or condo dwellers to find a dedicated space to charge. Am currently in the market for a vehicle for my move to Los Angeles later this year, but am considering going with a hybrid (lexus hybrid) as i'll likely be renting and living in an apartment for the short term (as well as doing the 6 hour drive regularly up into the bay area). 

I had a Lexus 400h … ordered it the second week of sales, in April 2006. Received it mid-August. Sold it in 2019to a good friend, with 100,000 miles on it. Good friend came to stay with me for six months … drove it from Milwaukee to Boston. Four days later it just crapped out. 

$600 just to figure out what was wrong, them a projected $4000 to $5000 to fix it. At 125,000 miles? Nope. 
 

I had replaced it with an Audi Q7. Much more comfortable, with add quirks. And a “mini-hybrid” they didn’t tell me about … Engine turns off when idling (but immediately restarts with any demand) and coasting turns off the injectors, say coasting down hill. RPM is the same but usage is significantly reduced. 
 

whilst hideously expensive and no SUV, and dubious relations with the Middle East, I assume that there’s a LUCID in my future. The CEO has massive experience, and might just de-throne Tesla as the top of the market. Time will tell. 

[+ RJD]

 

I'm all for EVs and helping the environment, but I don't think we've figured everything out yet with regard to disposal and replacement.  

Batteries in EVs have an average life of 8 years or 100,000 miles.  These batteries need to be disposed of when they die.  We currently struggle with the proper disposal of cell phone batteries.  What happens in 8 years when the number of dead EV vehicle batteries increases exponentially? Some of these batteries weigh up to 1,000 lbs and can be dangerous if mishandled.  

Another issue is the replacement cost.  The average cost of an electric vehicle battery replacement is $5,500. I wouldn't want to sink that much money into an 8 - 10-year-old car with over 100,000 miles and I may not be in a position to purchase a new car.  

I'm sure the technology will advance, like all industries, but I don't think we're quite there yet.  Hopefully, the cost of replacement batteries will be more reasonable in the future.  Until that happens, these are legitimate concerns which should be considered when purchasing an EV.     

https://www.wired.com/story/cars-going-electric-what-happens-used-batteries/

https://www.truecar.com/blog/how-long-do-electric-car-batteries-last/

[+ Bryan Dube]

21 hours ago, gallahadesquire said:

I had a Lexus 400h … ordered it the second week of sales, in April 2006. Received it mid-August. Sold it in 2019to a good friend, with 100,000 miles on it. Good friend came to stay with me for six months … drove it from Milwaukee to Boston. Four days later it just crapped out. 

$600 just to figure out what was wrong, them a projected $4000 to $5000 to fix it. At 125,000 miles? Nope. 
 

I had replaced it with an Audi Q7. Much more comfortable, with add quirks. And a “mini-hybrid” they didn’t tell me about … Engine turns off when idling (but immediately restarts with any demand) and coasting turns off the injectors, say coasting down hill. RPM is the same but usage is significantly reduced. 
 

whilst hideously expensive and no SUV, and dubious relations with the Middle East, I assume that there’s a LUCID in my future. The CEO has massive experience, and might just de-throne Tesla as the top of the market. Time will tell. 

I mean that is a 13+ year old vehicle as well. Idk, i feel like Japanese cars are the definition of reliability...but, I've never run up a vehicle beyond 125,000 miles let alone 75,000. Maybe hybrids have a shorter lifespan? or require more major repairs past 10 years? I definitely do not want to go German. Have had a BMW with a plethora of issues and heard horror stories about VWs from friends.  

Edited March 21, 2022 by Bryan Dube

[+ Charlie]

The two vehicles on which I put the most miles were both gas-fueled Mercedes (90K and 113K miles). Surprisingly, although regular servicing was pricey, I never had to do any expensive repairs on the engines during the 9 years I had the first and the 12 years I had the second. The price of a new battery would make me hesitate to keep any EV for a very long time.