Prince Philip Is Dead

[Kippy]

Elizabeth and Phillip were quite young when she became queen, and folks remember her family's bravery during the second world war.

 

Charles is in very, very late middle age.

At 72, HRH Prince Charles is elderly--or perhaps mid-elderly!

[Luv2play]

At 72, HRH Prince Charles is elderly--or perhaps mid-elderly!

That raises the question; when does one stop being elderly and become just plain old?

[gallahadesquire]

That raises the question; when does one stop being elderly and become just plain old?

When one looks the part. My mother, at 80, didn’t look it.

Her second husband looked old when we met him (at 62) and looked older when he died at 96.

[Luv2play]

When one looks the part. My mother, at 80, didn’t look it.

Her second husband looked old when we met him (at 62) and looked older when he died at 96.

Your mother must have been hard on him.

[BgMstr4u]

Her second husband looked old when we met him (at 62) and looked older when he died at 96.

So looks aren’t everything in the aging department. I feel better already.

[BtmBearDad]

I am puzzled by your reference to the Windsor genes being strongly reflected in Prince Andrew.

 

It was meant to convey Andrew strongly favours his mother’s vs his father’s family with those big eyes (like his daughter). Whether you call them the Windsor, or Hanover, or Saxe-Coburg genes, prior really to Charles, the men, and women in the BRF were considered good looking, handsome, beautiful even. There’s plenty of examples from Prince Albert Victor, to Prince William of Gloucester, to Princess Margaret. Now, how they age is a different matter.

 

Perhaps Elizabeth preferred to sit alone.

 

Not the case - current U.K. Covid legislation does not allow persons of different households to sit together at funerals. QEII and Philip were their own bubble, so without him, she is required to sit on her own. It wasn’t her choice, and it wasn’t due to any supposed antipathy towards Camilla.

 

One of the Queen's uncles -father of Prince Michael was reported to swing both ways.

 

Prince George, Duke of Kent - KIA in WWII over Scotland.

 

Say what you want about the Brits, they do pomp better than any other country.

 

I agree - they definitely know how to pull off the pomp and ceremony bits.

 

He only became prince 10 years after their marriage.

 

To be fair, QEII created him a prince of the U.K., but he was born a prince of Greece and Denmark. He only renounced his title, foreign citizenship, and assumed the “Mountbatten” name when he entered the Royal Navy. Otherwise, he would have been kept from combat, and promotion would have been problematic.

[+ WilliamM]

It was meant to convey Andrew strongly favours his mother’s vs his father’s family with those big eyes (like his daughter). Whether you call them the Windsor, or Hanover, or Saxe-Coburg genes, prior really to Charles, the men, and women in the BRF were considered good looking, handsome, beautiful even. There’s plenty of examples from Prince Albert Victor, to Prince William of Gloucester, to Princess Margaret. Now, how they age is a different matter.

 

 

 

Not the case - current U.K. Covid legislation does not allow persons of different households to sit together at funerals. QEII and Philip were their own bubble, so without him, she is required to sit on her own. It wasn’t her choice, and it wasn’t due to any supposed antipathy towards Camilla.

 

 

 

Prince George, Duke of Kent - KIA in WWII over Scotland.

 

 

 

I agree - they definitely know how to pull off the pomp and ceremony bits.

 

 

 

To be fair, QEII created him a prince of the U.K., but he was born a prince of Greece and Denmark. He only renounced his title, foreign citizenship, and assumed the “Mountbatten” name when he entered the Royal Navy. Otherwise, he would have been kept from combat, and promotion would have been problematic.

Why did it take so long for the Queen to visit her very sick uncle and the Duchess in Paris

[sutherland]

I think the burial of Prince Philip and, eventually, The Queen should be in Westminster Abbey rather than St. George's Chapel. As Britain's longest-reigning monarch I think she deserves the honor or eternally resting in the Abbey.

[Luv2play]

It was meant to convey Andrew strongly favours his mother’s vs his father’s family with those big eyes (like his daughter). Whether you call them the Windsor, or Hanover, or Saxe-Coburg genes, prior really to Charles, the men, and women in the BRF were considered good looking, handsome, beautiful even. There’s plenty of examples from Prince Albert Victor, to Prince William of Gloucester, to Princess Margaret. Now, how they age is a different matter.

 

 

 

Not the case - current U.K. Covid legislation does not allow persons of different households to sit together at funerals. QEII and Philip were their own bubble, so without him, she is required to sit on her own. It wasn’t her choice, and it wasn’t due to any supposed antipathy towards Camilla.

 

 

 

Prince George, Duke of Kent - KIA in WWII over Scotland.

 

 

 

I agree - they definitely know how to pull off the pomp and ceremony bits.

 

 

 

To be fair, QEII created him a prince of the U.K., but he was born a prince of Greece and Denmark. He only renounced his title, foreign citizenship, and assumed the “Mountbatten” name when he entered the Royal Navy. Otherwise, he would have been kept from combat, and promotion would have been problematic.

I was trying to be fair and didn’t mean to imply he was not royalty. In fact it has been pointed out he was more Royal than the Queen, who had a commoner for a mother. Both Philip’s parents were of royal descent.

Why did it take so long for the Queen to visit her very sick uncle and the Duchess in Paris

 

I think it was because he was no hero in the eyes of the majority of Britons. From the abdication to his sympathies for the Nazis, Edward VIII was a big disappointment, considering the promise and popularity he enjoyed in his youth.

 

Apart from his brief reign in 1936 of some 10 months, the only time he had to show his stuff as a ruler was when he was put in charge of the Bahamas during the war. And he made a hash of that too. Apart from his gross mishandling of the Oakes' murder, he was revealed to be a racist in how he treated the Blacks of the island colony.

 

The Queen Mother also probably had a say in how the Duke was treated by Queen Elizabeth, as there was no love lost between the sister in law and brother in law.

[+ WilliamM]

I was trying to be fair and didn’t mean to imply he was not royalty. In fact it has been pointed out he was more Royal than the Queen, who had a commoner for a mother. Both Philip’s parents were of royal descent.

 

 

I think it was because he was no hero in the eyes of the majority of Britons. From the abdication to his sympathies for the Nazis, Edward VIII was a big disappointment, considering the promise and popularity he enjoyed in his youth.

 

Apart from his brief reign in 1936 of some 10 months, the only time he had to show his stuff as a ruler was when he was put in charge of the Bahamas during the war. And he made a hash of that too. Apart from his gross mishandling of the Oakes' murder, he was revealed to be a racist in how he treated the Blacks of the island colony.

 

The Queen Mother also probably had a say in how the Duke was treated by Queen Elizabeth, as there was no love lost between the sister in law and brother in law.

Didn't the Queen Mother try to help Wallace Simpson at her husband's funeral. And she did try to visit Wallace when she was in Paris, but was told the Duchess was suffering from dementia

[HotWhiteThirties]

I never had much concern or interest in the Royal Family. I am a Republican in the sense that I value a representative republic/democratic forms of government, and as such, found monarchists confusing and to a degree superfluous. However, in recent years, I have grown to appreciate how constitutional monarchies function, and more particularly how HMTQ and Prince Philip have demonstrated something else I highly value - loyalty to duty and family. I find the history of the Royal Family fascinating, and in particular, the dedication of QEII and her Prince Philip. What a testament to so many virtues that are worthy of praise. A long life of service and submission, but also on his own terms. Well done, sir!

Edited April 19, 2021 by HotWhiteThirties

[+ WilliamM]

Maybe he should have ( though he outlived the life expectancy of Canada and every country ) , considering the life expectancy of male ranking in descending order ; Canada 15; UK 24 ; USA 40

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

Or Monaco. Thanks for the information.

 

"We didn't come here for our health" was a very silly thing to say about a wonderful country.

 

I have taken a train from Montreal to Vancouver, would love to do it again.

 

And my dad went to college in Nova Scotia

[Bargara Leatherboy]

Why did it take so long for the Queen to visit her very sick uncle and the Duchess in Paris

 

Well Her Mother the Queen Mother always blamed Wallis Simpson on her husbands death, at 52. If he had not become King due to the abdication, she believes he would have lived much longer.

 

So not sure if the current Queen shares the same opinion, but in respect to her Mother she chose to enforce the exile of her uncle. She did visit towards the end of his life and was present at his funeral.

[+ WilliamM]

Well Her Mother the Queen Mother always blamed Wallis Simpson on her husbands death, at 52. If he had not become King due to the abdication, she believes he would have lived much longer.

 

So not sure if the current Queen shares the same opinion, but in respect to her Mother she chose to enforce the exile of her uncle. She did visit towards the end of his life and was present at his funeral.

Wasn't Elizabeth his closest blood relative? And Princess Margaret. Although most people would understand how the Queen Mother felt. And the Duke and Duchess' frivolous lifestyle was pretty disgraceful for a former King

[wsc]

The Queen Mother despised Wallis and blamed her and Edward for the premature death of her husband, George VI. Had Edward not abdicated to marry Wallis, "Bertie," as George VI was called by the family, would never have had to carry the burden of kingship in World War II, which the Queen Mother believed contributed to her husband's death. However, I think smoking 4 packs a day may have been a far more direct cause of his death from lung cancer at the age of 56.

 

Churchill sent the Duke and Duchess of Windsor to the Bahamas to get them as far away as feasible from Europe. Remember that they weren't living in England after the abdication, but had settled in France. After Germany invaded France, they evacuated to Spain, then Portugal, but did not return to Britain. Churchill's main problem was a trip Edward and Wallis had made to Germany where they got somewhat chummy with Hitler. There was even some evidence of a German plan to invade the UK and put Edward back on the throne to replace his brother and to serve as a German puppet. I don't know if there's evidence of Edward's knowledge of the plan, let alone of his willingness to be a part of it. But whatever there was, it was enough for Churchill to send Edward and Wallis to a warmer, and far away, climate. BTW, Wallis complained the weather in Bahama played havoc with her hair. Cue eye roll.

Edited April 20, 2021 by wsc

[Luv2play]

The Queen Mother despised Wallis and blamed her and Edward for the premature death of her husband, George VI. Had Edward not abdicated to marry Wallis, "Bertie," as George VI was called by the family, would never have had to carry the burden of kingship in World War II, which the Queen Mother believed contributed to her husband's death. However, I think smoking 4 packs a day may have been a far more direct cause of his death from lung cancer at the age of 56.

 

Churchill sent the Duke and Duchess of Windsor to the Bahamas to get them as far away as feasible from Europe. Remember that they weren't living in England after the abdication, but had settled in France. After Germany invaded France, they evacuated to Spain, then Portugal, but did not return to Britain. Churchill's main problem was a trip Edward and Wallis had made to Germany where they got somewhat chummy with Hitler. There was even some evidence of a German plan to invade the UK and put Edward back on the throne to replace his brother and to serve as a German puppet. I don't know if there's evidence of Edwards knowledge of the plan, let alone of his willingness to be a part of it. But whatever there was, it was enough for Churchill to send the Edward and Wallis to a warmer, and far away, climate. BTW, Wallis complained the weather in Bahama played havoc with her hair. Cue eye roll.

In those days there was no air conditioning so the summers were awful. They had to get permission to go to the US mainland, even Miami, which was only 20 minutes away by plane. Sir Harry Oakes, their rich friend until he was murdered in 1943, would summer with his family in Bar Harbour, Maine. Wallis went crazy feeling isolated in Nassau. It couldn’t have gone well for David (Edward).

[BtmBearDad]

Why did it take so long for the Queen to visit her very sick uncle and the Duchess in Paris

 

QEII did see her uncle at the funerals for her father and grandmother, as well as during his private visits to London after the war. For the Queen to make a visit to her uncle would have been regarded as too great an honour for someone who shirked his responsibilities, openly sympathised/supported fascists, and who lived an utterly frivolous, and opulent life. She only visited him in Paris because she was on a State Visit to France, and the duke was on death’s door. The QM did offer assistance/guidance to Wallis at the duke’s funeral as Wallis was already suffering from the early stages of dementia.

[+ WilliamM]

Let's hope the Queen Mother offered assistance to Wallace at the Duke's funeral out of kindness for a widow who was very much alone now

[+ WilliamM]

QEII did see her uncle at the funerals for her father and grandmother, as well as during his private visits to London after the war. For the Queen to make a visit to her uncle would have been regarded as too great an honour for someone who shirked his responsibilities, openly sympathised/supported fascists, and who lived an utterly frivolous, and opulent life. She only visited him in Paris because she was on a State Visit to France, and the duke was on death’s door. The QM did offer assistance/guidance to Wallis at the duke’s funeral as Wallis wa suffering from the early stages of dementia.

Forgiveness is a virtue for Queen Elizabeth and Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother.

 

The Duke and Duchess' livies were much less opulent than their relatives in England.

[Luv2play]

Forgiveness is a virtue for Queen Elizabeth and Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother.

 

The Duke and Duchess' livies were much less opulent than their relatives in England.

 

That's certainly true for the Duke. He gave up a kingdom and not just any kingdom but the richest in the world for "that woman from Baltimore".

 

On the other hand, Wallis Warfield came from a somewhat illustrious but impoverished family from the American South. The life she led after meeting Edward Windsor was a fairy tale come true.

[BtmBearDad]

Forgiveness is a virtue for Queen Elizabeth and Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother.

 

The Duke and Duchess' livies were much less opulent than their relatives in England.

 

Setting aside whether or not forgiveness is a virtue, or how active, and what was the level of any animosity aimed at the couple, it is worth remembering the pair defrauded, and essentially blackmailed his family. All before their unrepentant embrace of fascism, which many would argue sailed on edge of, if not went over it into treason - when Diana Mosley calls you, with disdain, a “true believer” she’s not referring to your religious faith. I would argue any acrimony there may have been was justified. I do think both EII, and QM employed an “out of sight, out of mind” approach when it came to E&W - they didn’t waste their time or energy thinking of them.

 

If you’re comparing the lifestyles of GVI and EII to E&W’s, you’re being ridiculous. First, the former two were heads of state, while the latter were private citizens. Much of the opulence you see associated with GVI and EII are trappings of state, not personal.

 

When he abdicated, in order to get a better financial settlement, E claimed a total net worth of $5mil - when in fact he had close to $70mil. E also forced GVI to buy Balmoral and Sandringham from him to the tune of $1.2mil a year for life under threat of either setting up themselves there or selling them. This was in addition to an allowance of $1.5mil a year, which was meant to be for life, but ended at GVI’s death. None of these payments came from the Civil List - everything had to be paid from GVI’s personal wealth, which as second son of GV wasn’t substantial by any means. This was all cash too - it doesn’t include the art, jewels, antiques, etc. E had inherited and acquired prior to abdication. The pair were then given the home they lived in as a “grace and favour” type of deal by the city of Paris rent free for life. France also exempted them from both income and inheritance tax. In terms of lifestyle, the pair had a greater income than their family.

 

So yes, the pair lived an opulent, albeit empty and essentially meaningless life when compared with their family.

[HotWhiteThirties]

Setting aside whether or not forgiveness is a virtue, or how active, and what was the level of any animosity aimed at the couple, it is worth remembering the pair defrauded, and essentially blackmailed his family. All before their unrepentant embrace of fascism, which many would argue sailed on edge of, if not went over it into treason - when Diana Mosley calls you, with disdain, a “true believer” she’s not referring to your religious faith. I would argue any acrimony there may have been was justified. I do think both EII, and QM employed an “out of sight, out of mind” approach when it came to E&W - they didn’t waste their time or energy thinking of them.

 

If you’re comparing the lifestyles of GVI and EII to E&W’s, you’re being ridiculous. First, the former two were heads of state, while the latter were private citizens. Much of the opulence you see associated with GVI and EII are trappings of state, not personal.

 

When he abdicated, in order to get a better financial settlement, E claimed a total net worth of $5mil - when in fact he had close to $70mil. E also forced GVI to buy Balmoral and Sandringham from him to the tune of $1.2mil a year for life under threat of either setting up themselves there or selling them. This was in addition to an allowance of $1.5mil a year, which was meant to be for life, but ended at GVI’s death. None of these payments came from the Civil List - everything had to be paid from GVI’s personal wealth, which as second son of GV wasn’t substantial by any means. This was all cash too - it doesn’t include the art, jewels, antiques, etc. E had inherited and acquired prior to abdication. The pair were then given the home they lived in as a “grace and favour” type of deal by the city of Paris rent free for life. France also exempted them from both income and inheritance tax. In terms of lifestyle, the pair had a greater income than their family.

 

So yes, the pair lived an opulent, albeit empty and essentially meaningless life when compared with their family.

 

Wow. Impressive.

 

A thorough mic ? drop. ??

 

Also educational. Filled in a lot of blanks for me. Well done.

[BtmBearDad]

Wow. Impressive.

 

A thorough mic ? drop. ??

 

Also educational. Filled in a lot of blanks for me. Well done.

 

I can’t take all the credit - that belongs to Brother Albertus, an Irish Cistercian who taught me in my teens, and who also, oddly for an Irishman, was an unapologetic royalist. I used to get great joy seeing his face redden when I would refer to EII as “Mrs. Mountbatten” ?

[+ WilliamM]

QEII did see her uncle at the funerals for her father and grandmother, as well as during his private visits to London after the war. For the Queen to make a visit to her uncle would have been regarded as too great an honour for someone who shirked his responsibilities, openly sympathised/supported fascists, and who lived an utterly frivolous, and opulent life. She only visited him in Paris because she was on a State Visit to France, and the duke was on death’s door. The QM did offer assistance/guidance to Wallis at the duke’s funeral as Wallis was already suffering from the early stages of dementia.

QEII did see her uncle at the funerals for her father and grandmother, as well as during his private visits to London after the war. For the Queen to make a visit to her uncle would have been regarded as too great an honour for someone who shirked his responsibilities, openly sympathised/supported fascists, and who lived an utterly frivolous, and opulent life. She only visited him in Paris because she was on a State Visit to France, and the duke was on death’s door. The QM did offer assistance/guidance to Wallis at the duke’s funeral as Wallis was already suffering from the early stages of dementia.

 

Agree, the Duke could have had a jolly good life as a lecturer in Paris and Columbia University in New York City. I don't refer to people by their royal initials.

[kingsley88]

Wasn't Edward VIII also chummy with the

I can’t take all the credit - that belongs to Brother Albertus, an Irish Cistercian who taught me in my teens, and who also, oddly for an Irishman, was an unapologetic royalist. I used to get great joy seeing his face redden when I would refer to EII as “Mrs. Mountbatten” ?

lol or Frau Battenberg? Thinking more about it, was Prince Philip’s last name Mountbatten growing up? Did he take his mother’s maiden name rather than his father’s Greek/Danish last name?