Prince Philip Is Dead

[BgMstr4u]

Mountbatten is the English translation from German of Battenberg.

[BtmBearDad]

Wasn't Edward VIII also chummy with the

 

lol or Frau Battenberg? Thinking more about it, was Prince Philip’s last name Mountbatten growing up? Did he take his mother’s maiden name rather than his father’s Greek/Danish last name?

 

Philip, like most royals, didn’t have a last name as such - they’re members of “a House” but go by their title. Philip was born into the House of Glucksburg, and until he renounced his titles, was known as “Philip of Greece”.

 

Technically, his mother was never a “Mountbatten” since she married as a Princess of Battenburg over a decade before GV renounced all the German titles for himself, and his family. Whether Philip was pressured by his uncle Lord Louis to take the name Mountbatten is up for debate, but it was probably the case. Lord Louis was known to have held a grudge over his family’s loss of princely rank and royal status, and took the opportunity to attach his family name to the royal family - tho that didn’t work out quite as he planned.

[cany10011]

Elizabeth and Phillip were quite young when she became queen, and folks remember her family's bravery during the second world war.

 

Charles is in very, very late middle age.

 

 

Yes, the Queen Mother was known to have said that they she can now "look the East End in the face", following the bombing of Buckingham Palace.

[cany10011]

Thank you for saying that. Charles and I are less than a year apart in age and I thought I had slipped over to old age, not still very, very late middle age. You have made my day!

 

Unless you meant that Charles would be in old age in a few months. LOL

Apparently, Charles is now the longest serving "Prince of Wales", eclipsing Edward VII, the eldest son of Queen Victoria.

[cany10011]

That's certainly true for the Duke. He gave up a kingdom and not just any kingdom but the richest in the world for "that woman from Baltimore".

 

 

 

Wallis must have been very good in bed.

[Luv2play]

Wallis must have been very good in bed.

That was one ace up her sleeve. She had others.

[+ WilliamM]

That was one ace up her sleeve. She had others.

Yes, she invented water

[CatDaddy]

Surely, Mrs. Simpson entertained with a trick pelvis!

[cany10011]

Surely, Mrs. Simpson entertained with a trick pelvis!

Perhaps she swallowed??? I don't know what other tricks would induce a prince to give up a kingdom.

[HotWhiteThirties]

In thinking it through, even if Edward (David) had not renounced and been allowed to maintain the throne while married to a divorcee, he did not have heirs with anyone, did he? Thus, the House of Windsor would still have QEII on the throne today with the current line of succession as we know it in tact. There would have been no King Geoge VI or Queen Mary, but outside of that, and a shortened QEII reign, everything we know now would be the same. Correct?

[cany10011]

In thinking it through, even if Edward (David) had not renounced and been allowed to maintain the throne while married to a divorcee, he did not have heirs with anyone, did he? Thus, the House of Windsor would still have QEII on the throne today with the current line of succession as we know it in tact. There would have been no King Geoge VI or Queen Mary, but outside of that, and a shortened QEII reign, everything we know now would be the same. Correct?

Wallis would have been 41... so perhaps she could have a baby still with today‘s IVF technology... but no, I think you are correct. Edward the VIII passed in 1972, giving Elizabeth II, 20 years of freedom before ascending today‘s throne.

[Luv2play]

In thinking it through, even if Edward (David) had not renounced and been allowed to maintain the throne while married to a divorcee, he did not have heirs with anyone, did he? Thus, the House of Windsor would still have QEII on the throne today with the current line of succession as we know it in tact. There would have been no King Geoge VI or Queen Mary, but outside of that, and a shortened QEII reign, everything we know now would be the same. Correct?

I think that was what George V hoped when he said near the end of his life that he prayed after Edward Bertie and Lilibet (Elizabeth) would take the crown.

 

I think you misspoke about Queen Mary and meant Elizabeth the Queen Mother. Mary was the mother of both Edward (David) and George (Albert).

[Luv2play]

Perhaps she swallowed??? I don't know what other tricks would induce a prince to give up a kingdom.

I think the ace of trumps that she had was her ability and willingness to dominate Edward as no other woman had in his long bachelorhood. At heart he was a mommy's boy and craved a firm hand.

 

In the court that surrounded him and everywhere on his world wide tours, women considered eligible tried to seduce him with feminine wiles. What he was looking for was a strict governess. Her looks were secondary, which was fortunate for her, as many of her predecessors were better looking but failed to win his heart.

 

Early on in their relationship she broke the conventional behavior and would go so far as to correct him in public, setting tongues wagging. He always came back for more.

 

When push came to shove about defending his throne, Winston Churchill, who was among those advising him, famously said "Our cock won't fight".

 

More accurately he might have said "our capon won't fight". Edward had already been figuratively "castrated" by Wallis.

Edited April 20, 2021 by Luv2play

[cany10011]

I think the ace of trumps that she had was her ability and willingness to dominate Edward as no other woman had in his long bachelorhood. At heart he was a mommy's boy and craved a firm hand.

 

In the court that surrounded him and everywhere on his world wide tours, women considered eligible tried to seduce him with feminine wiles. What he was looking for was a strict governess. Her looks were secondary, which was fortunate for her, as many of her predecessors were better looking but failed to win his heart.

 

Early on in their relationship she broke the conventional behavior and would go so far as to correct him in public, setting tongues wagging. He always came back for more.

 

When push came to shove about defending his throne, Winston Churchill, who was among those advising him, famously said "Our cock won't fight".

 

More accurately he might have said "our cockerel won't fight". Edward had already been figuratively "castrated" by Wallis.

 

I learned something new today. Thank you!

[Luv2play]

I think the ace of trumps that she had was her ability and willingness to dominate Edward as no other woman had in his long bachelorhood. At heart he was a mommy's boy and craved a firm hand.

 

In the court that surrounded him and everywhere on his world wide tours, women considered eligible tried to seduce him with feminine wiles. What he was looking for was a strict governess. Her looks were secondary, which was fortunate for her, as many of her predecessors were better looking but failed to win his heart.

 

Early on in their relationship she broke the conventional behavior and would go so far as to correct him in public, setting tongues wagging. He always came back for more.

 

When push came to shove about defending his throne, Winston Churchill, who was among those advising him, famously said "Our cock won't fight".

 

More accurately he might have said "our capon won't fight". Edward had already been figuratively "castrated" by Wallis.

I originally wrote cockerel but meant capon, which is the castrated version of a cock.

[BgMstr4u]

The abdication may well have saved the nation endless (and avoidable) trouble. EVIII was weak, self-indulgent and lazy in his personal character and judging by his subsequent actions, somewhat inclined toward the Nazis. The Monarch had and has a vital role in times of conflict and stress and he was far too vacillating personally and politically to be the kind of leader Britain needed then. Mrs. Simpson came along at just the right time.

[HotWhiteThirties]

I think that was what George V hoped when he said near the end of his life that he prayed after Edward Bertie and Lilibet (Elizabeth) would take the crown.

 

I think you misspoke about Queen Mary and meant Elizabeth the Queen Mother. Mary was the mother of both Edward (David) and George (Albert).

 

Yes, I did misspeak. I meant Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother. Thanks for catching that.

[marylander1940]

I think that was what George V hoped when he said near the end of his life that he prayed after Edward Bertie and Lilibet (Elizabeth) would take the crown.

 

I think you misspoke about Queen Mary and meant Elizabeth the Queen Mother. Mary was the mother of both Edward (David) and George (Albert).

 

Someone has been binge watching "The Crown" all over again! ?

[BtmBearDad]

In thinking it through, even if Edward (David) had not renounced and been allowed to maintain the throne while married to a divorcee, he did not have heirs with anyone, did he? Thus, the House of Windsor would still have QEII on the throne today with the current line of succession as we know it in tact. There would have been no King Geoge VI or Queen Mary, but outside of that, and a shortened QEII reign, everything we know now would be the same. Correct?

 

Yes, the line of succession would have been -> EVIII -> Duke of York (GVI) -> Princess Elizabeth of York (EII). But, there would have been all sorts of variables, historical “what if’s?” to consider.

 

Some fun ones to consider:

• would the stress of the war had the same effect on EVIII’s health as it did on GVI’s?

• without the stress of being king, would GVI have survived EVIII?

• not becoming king, would have meant no Capt. Townsend as equerry - would Margaret have ever met him otherwise? If no, would she have wound up with her first suitor, the Duke of Buccluech? If she did meet Townsend would sparks still fly, would marriage be allowed?

• as EII was not the direct heiress to the throne, would Mountbatten have pushed Philip to meet her in 1939? Would EII still have married Philip, or a country aristocrat as she wanted as a child, or a foreign prince like Charles of Luxembourg as her grandmother wanted? Would no marriage to Philip have a negative impact on Mountbatten’s career?

• who would be EII’s heir? Her children? With no Charles, there would be no Diana, or William, or Harry, or Camilla, etc..

 

Some fun historical what if’s to consider. Personally, I enjoy these what if’s, and historical counter-factual fiction. I have a friend who is an author of historical fiction, and I’ve encouraged her to pen one based on the premise Charles did die in the 1988 avalanche at Klosters - perhaps I should put a word in her ear about EVIII not abdicating.

[Luv2play]

Someone has been binge watching "The Crown" all over again! ?

Haha. Not quite. I don't have a television.

 

I'm a constant reader, books, newspapers and stuff I find on the Internet, including this forum.

 

I've read at least twenty books on the British Royal family and others that touch on them. I'm a big Churchill fan and have read forty or so books either about him or by him. And then many biographies of leaders in the 20th century, including American presidents who at one time or another interacted with British royalty.

 

I've read at least 5 books about the Duke's time in the Bahamas as the Oakes murder fascinates me as a lawyer. Even Raymond Chandler was an observer at the trial.

 

I doubt there is very little in The Crown that would inform me. The same for Victoria. I've read many biographies of not only her but her Prime Ministers, including her favorite, Disraeli.

 

And since I am a Canadian and read a lot of Canadian history, the British royal family often crops up. My grandfather was presented to the Duke and Duchess of Cornwall and York in 1901, before he became King George V. That was just after Victoria had died. I have his invitation amongst my papers.

 

Despite all this I am not a monarchist. I really feel ambivalent about them as an institution and have most of my adult life.

Edited April 20, 2021 by Luv2play

[+ FreshFluff]

Yes, the line of succession would have been -> EVIII -> Duke of York (GVI) -> Princess Elizabeth of York (EII). But, there would have been all sorts of variables, historical “what if’s?” to consider.

 

Some fun ones to consider:

• would the stress of the war had the same effect on EVIII’s health as it did on GVI’s?

• without the stress of being king, would GVI have survived EVIII?

• not becoming king, would have meant no Capt. Townsend as equerry - would Margaret have ever met him otherwise? If no, would she have wound up with her first suitor, the Duke of Buccluech? If she did meet Townsend would sparks still fly, would marriage be allowed?

• as EII was not the direct heiress to the throne, would Mountbatten have pushed Philip to meet her in 1939? Would EII still have married Philip, or a country aristocrat as she wanted as a child, or a foreign prince like Charles of Luxembourg as her grandmother wanted? Would no marriage to Philip have a negative impact on Mountbatten’s career?

• who would be EII’s heir? Her children? With no Charles, there would be no Diana, or William, or Harry, or Camilla, etc..

 

Some fun historical what if’s to consider. Personally, I enjoy these what if’s, and historical counter-factual fiction. I have a friend who is an author of historical fiction, and I’ve encouraged her to pen one based on the premise Charles did die in the 1988 avalanche at Klosters - perhaps I should put a word in her ear about EVIII not abdicating.

 

Do you really think it was the war that caised G VI’s death vs advanced lung cancer? As for suitors, could the Duke really hold a candle to the dashing alpha male Townsend? The crown siggedts that Margaret pursued Townsend pretty aggressively.

[BtmBearDad]

Do you really think it was the war that caised G VI’s death vs advanced lung cancer? As for suitors, could the Duke really hold a candle to the dashing alpha male Townsend? The crown siggedts that Margaret pursued Townsend pretty aggressively.

 

GVI was always a smoker, but every account details how once the whole abdication crisis began, he wasn’t just a heavy smoker, he chewed them up for the rest of his life. Both his mother, and EVIII were heavy smokers who died from lung cancer, yet at far more advanced ages. So, if the stressors of the abdication, succeeding to the throne, stabilizing the monarchy, fighting the war, dealing with his exiled brother’s questionable dealings were all not on his shoulders, could he have remained a smoker/heavy smoker, and had a lifespan more in line with his mother and brother? Who knows! But one of those fun “what if’s” to game out.

 

In terms of dashing good looks, the Duke definitely couldn’t have held a candle to Capt. Townsend. But, the “what if” that comes into play is that Margaret only met him as he was equerry to the king. So no GVI would mean no equerry role for Capt Townsend. Without that role, it’s doubtful they would have ever met. The Duke on the other hand was someone she knew all her life, and was part of the circle of aristos she maintained friendships with her whole life. Oh, and the Duke was one of the wealthiest peers in the country - which would have been a consideration for a daughter of a royal Duke vs the daughter of a king. Without the whole Townsend romance, would Margaret still have become the “poor Margaret” of the tabloids, or would such a marriage, and children resulted in a happier life? Again, who knows ??‍♂️ But another fun “what if” to game out!

[+ FreshFluff]

You make a good point about George VI’s family living longer.

 

As for Margaret, sheseemed like the type who liked unavailable men. IMO, if it hadn’t been Townsend, it would have been either another married guy or a flamboyant bad boy like Armstrong-Jones. It’s hard for me to picture her living in domestic bliss with some aristocrat.

[Luv2play]

You make a good point about George VI’s family living longer.

 

As for Margaret, sheseemed like the type who liked unavailable men. IMO, if it hadn’t been Townsend, it would have been either another married guy or a flamboyant bad boy like Armstrong-Jones. It’s hard for me to picture her living in domestic bliss with some aristocrat.

In that regard Margaret took after her uncle David (Edward) who liked unavailable women. Wallis was not the first married woman he hung out with but rather the last in a succession of married women he chased.

[+ Pensant]

I feel much sadness for her Majesty, not only does she have the burden of ruling Britannia, but she has a dysfunctional family to restore and has to do it on her own without her life partner

Ruling Brittania? She doesn’t rule anything. She’s a constitutional monarch.