Please, please, please STAY HOME - that massage is STILL not worth your life

[MisterMike]

Now that the CDC has recently updated guidelines, based on science and data, for those to not necessarily wear masks indoors and outdoors for persons fully vaccinated two weeks after 2nd shot, anyone contemplating to venture out and getting a massage without masks?

I'm not. Because the science still doesn't support it, even though the CDC made the announcement. A majority of Americans are still unvaccinated. The announcement is predicated on people being honest about their vaccine status which let's be real is NOT going to happen. Expect another deadly spike soon.

[Mustang]

Now that the CDC has recently updated guidelines, based on science and data, for those to not necessarily wear masks indoors and outdoors for persons fully vaccinated two weeks after 2nd shot, anyone contemplating to venture out and getting a massage without masks?

I'm fully vaccinated and so are some of my go to guys, so I'm comfortable getting a massage now.

 

But I'll be 100% masked walking up into Whitetrash-Mart. I trust the mask more than people these days.

 

My two cents on dropping the mask mandate is that it's just going to drag things out even longer. Ug.

[+ sniper]

I'm not. Because the science still doesn't support it, even though the CDC made the announcement. A majority of Americans are still unvaccinated. The announcement is predicated on people being honest about their vaccine status which let's be real is NOT going to happen. Expect another deadly spike soon.

What on earth does the percentage of other people unvaccinated have to do with what two vaccinated people do? If you don't think the science supports that level of risk, you shouldn't get in a car amd drive, or ever leave your house really.

[Admittance]

But big daddy government says it's OK. Listen to you Masters

[+ Italiano]

Bill Maher fully vaccinated is now positive.....Just saying!

[IntuitiveTactile]

Bill Maher fully vaccinated is now positive.....Just saying!

[MEDIA=giphy]lRZjlasctAcvu[/MEDIA]

[IntuitiveTactile]

I'm fully vaccinated and so are some of my go to guys, so I'm comfortable getting a massage now.

 

But I'll be 100% masked walking up into Whitetrash-Mart. I trust the mask more than people these days.

 

My two cents on dropping the mask mandate is that it's just going to drag things out even longer. Ug.

I'll be joining the Trader Joes "Follow The Science Crowd" , 100% vaccinated, unmasked and terrifying the Karen's https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/shopping/2021/05/14/trader-joes-masks-not-required-fully-vaccinated-after-cdc-guidelines/5093425001/

[MisterMike]

What on earth does the percentage of other people unvaccinated have to do with what two vaccinated people do? If you don't think the science supports that level of risk, you shouldn't get in a car amd drive, or ever leave your house really.

Why would you assume everyone there is vaccinated? Do you also go bareback because someone tells you they are negative and on prep? Personal responsibility- heard of it?

[CheckCar]

I wish we wouldn’t attack each other on this thread. Disagree, sure. But we don’t need to berate each other.

 

I think the CDC is prematurely loosening restrictions since we’re still shy of the 70% vaccination rate needed for herd immunity. I also live alone, have been isolated for over a year, and am terribly touch-deprived and depressed. So I finally took a calculated risk two weeks ago with a masseur I trust, and I pseudo-quarantined myself for a few days to make sure no worrying symptoms emerged.

 

At this point, each one of us needs to gauge how much risk he is comfortable taking on and proceed accordingly.

[510guy]

I haven't had a massage since Nov. 2019 so it's been a while. Just got my second dose. The person I plan to see has on his ad fully vacs, I don't feel right asking person to prove it as I don't think that's appropriate. Still debating whether or not time is right.

[preppystudent]

On 5/14/2021 at 6:09 PM, MisterMike said:

I'm not. Because the science still doesn't support it, even though the CDC made the announcement. A majority of Americans are still unvaccinated. The announcement is predicated on people being honest about their vaccine status which let's be real is NOT going to happen. Expect another deadly spike soon.

If you are vaccinated, who cares if other people are vaccinated or not??  The chance of you being vaccinated, getting Covid, AND having significant illness as a result is essentially zero - you are more likely to die in a car crash driving to the massage.  And the chance of you being vaccinated, getting Covid AND passing Covid on to someone who isn't vaccinated (for a reason other than just their personal choice) is also basically zero.  This is all a risk allocation issue - you can't completely eliminate all risk in life.

[Mustang]

1 hour ago, preppystudent said:

If you are vaccinated, who cares if other people are vaccinated or not??  The chance of you being vaccinated, getting Covid, AND having significant illness as a result is essentially zero - you are more likely to die in a car crash driving to the massage.  And the chance of you being vaccinated, getting Covid AND passing Covid on to someone who isn't vaccinated (for a reason other than just their personal choice) is also basically zero.  This is all a risk allocation issue - you can't completely eliminate all risk in life.

Oh gosh - I 'm not sure I have the energy or the crayons to respond to this, but here we go. 

Contracting COVID is not "essential 0" for vaccinated people. mRNA vaccines provides a 95% risk reduction, less with J&J, and less against any of these variants. None of these are = 0. This has been widely published. 

About 38,000 died in car accidents last, about 500,000 died of Covid-19. 38k is not less than 500k. Not that these two are events are even comparable equivalents. See "false equivalents". 

Just because you can't mitigate all risk doesn't mean you can't practice risk reduction (or a modicum of common sense). First remove the threat then remove the protection. 

Not sure what you were a [preppy] student of, but I'm guessing it wasn't math, science, or stats. TV/VCR repair, maybe? 😉

[preppystudent]

9 minutes ago, Mustang said:

Oh gosh - I 'm not sure I have the energy or the crayons to respond to this, but here we go. 

Contracting COVID is not "essential 0" for vaccinated people. mRNA vaccines provides a 95% risk reduction, less with J&J, and less against any of these variants. None of these are = 0. This has been widely published. 

About 38,000 died in car accidents last, about 500,000 died of Covid-19. 38k is not less than 500k. Not that these two are events are even comparable equivalents. See "false equivalents". 

Just because you can't mitigate all risk doesn't mean you can't practice risk reduction (or a modicum of common sense). First remove the threat then remove the protection. 

Not sure what you were a [preppy] student of, but I'm guessing it wasn't math, science, or stats. TV/VCR repair, maybe? 😉

Well since you feel the need to be condescending, and clearly don't understand the many logical fallacies of your post, I'll try to spell it out for you.  When I said the chance of contracting covid AND having significant illness, I emphasized the "AND" by capitalizing it precisely for people like you.  If you wish to avoid all risk of contracting Covid, please, by all means, don't ever leave your house, but if you want to enjoy your life and eliminate the risk of experiencing significant illness resulting from a Covid infection, then get vaccinated and live your life.  Up to you.  I

And as you note, there were 38,000 car crash deaths last year - would you be so kind as to inform me how many fully VACCINATED people have died from Covid in the US this year?  Is there even 1 documented case of that?  That is the accurate comparison - not comparing car crash deaths to total Covid deaths by all people, whether vaccinated or not.  Of course they are different - that's the point of a comparison.  You don't "compare" two things that are identical.  My point is that while we do practice risk reduction and common sense when it comes to driving cars (see, eg, seat belts, speed limits, etc.), we don't try to eliminate all risk or even adopt measures that would still allow us to drive cars and would result in fewer deaths (eg, 30 mph speed limits everywhere), because that wouldn't be practical.  So I'd suggest you practice some common sense before lecturing me on the topic...  I'm not going to tell you not to wear a mask, but please don't pretend your decision to keep wearing one is rooted in reality.

And I'll have you know I was a finance major and graduated from one of the top 3 law schools in the country. So I'd be happy to do a side-by-side comparison of our education...

[MmM]

Covid-phobia is a really thing. Sadly, it is rooted only on anxiety, and not necessarily on reality. 

Edited May 24, 2021 by manmed

[Cruiser7]

Am I the only one who wants to have hot monkey sex with @preppystudent? 
 

Just me? 
 

[preppystudent]

4 hours ago, Cruiser7 said:

Am I the only one who wants to have hot monkey sex with @preppystudent? 
 

Just me? 
 

Sometimes I worry that we as a society have lost all ability to reason but the response to my post (and lack of support for the science-denying and logic-free post above mine) has been encouraging. 

[IntuitiveTactile]

"the county's COVID-19 death rate among the fully vaccinated is 0.00036%., said Los Angeles County Department of Public Health Director Barbara Ferrer. The numbers show that coronavirus vaccines are proving to be extremely effective, she said." 

This from Los Angeles.. Gives further proof that dying from covid after vaccination is an infinitesimally small chance. 

Providing further comfort is this quote from Rochelle Walensky of the CDC,

" The emerging data confirms what many of us thought would be the case—that not only do the vaccines stop symptomatic COVID, but they also make it highly unlikely that someone can even be infected at all." 

In additional good news, the 8 members of the New York Yankees that tested positive after vaccination apparently have zero symptoms. 

I think it's safe to say that the" Follow the Science " crowd for some inexplicable reason is going against their better judgment. 

 

https://patch.com/california/los-angeles/933-vaccinated-angelenos-test-positive-covid-19-12-died

[preppystudent]

1 hour ago, IntuitiveTactile said:

"the county's COVID-19 death rate among the fully vaccinated is 0.00036%., said Los Angeles County Department of Public Health Director Barbara Ferrer. The numbers show that coronavirus vaccines are proving to be extremely effective, she said." 

This from Los Angeles.. Gives further proof that dying from covid after vaccination is an infinitesimally small chance. 

Providing further comfort is this quote from Rochelle Walensky of the CDC,

" The emerging data confirms what many of us thought would be the case—that not only do the vaccines stop symptomatic COVID, but they also make it highly unlikely that someone can even be infected at all." 

In additional good news, the 8 members of the New York Yankees that tested positive after vaccination apparently have zero symptoms. 

I think it's safe to say that the" Follow the Science " crowd for some inexplicable reason is going against their better judgment. 

 

https://patch.com/california/los-angeles/933-vaccinated-angelenos-test-positive-covid-19-12-died

I actually think the reason is quite "explicable"........ but I'll leave that to everyone's interpretation.

[RubMyThighs]

All of this is true AND there is still some cause to be reasonably cautious for those so inclined. (And this is a personal choice that I don’t think should be up for debate by other people.) Personally, I am “living my life” fully - including getting massages - while also only having indoor maskless contact with others whom I know have been vaccinated. This is because it is still possible to get mild Covid and even one with a mild case can wind up with “Long Covid.” Two of my friends who had mild cases have now been suffering for months - one with a new heart problem, the other with her hair falling out in her 40s. 
Hopefully it will become clear that this doesn’t happen to those who are vaccinated but since it is too soon to know about the development of “Long Covid,” I’m exercising some caution, but I respect the choices of those who are not concerned. I hope we can all put this behind us soon. 

[Luv2play]

The CDC is no longer recording cases of COVID infection happening to fully vaccinated people although over 11 thousand cases have been reported. Over 900 of those cases required hospitalization and over 160 patients died. Some experts are criticizing this decision as they say knowing this info is important going forward to fully understand the disease and it’s progress.

[+ EVdude]

5 hours ago, Luv2play said:

The CDC is no longer recording cases of COVID infection happening to fully vaccinated people although over 11 thousand cases have been reported. Over 900 of those cases required hospitalization and over 160 patients died. Some experts are criticizing this decision as they say knowing this info is important going forward to fully understand the disease and it’s progress.

Here’s a link to a May 25 CDC report on COVID-19 Vaccine Breakthrough Infections:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7021e3.htm

Snippets:

A total of 10,262 SARS-CoV-2 vaccine breakthrough infections had been reported from 46 U.S. states and territories as of April 30, 2021.

Based on preliminary data, 2,725 (27%) vaccine breakthrough infections were asymptomatic, 995 patients were known to be hospitalized, and 160 patients died. Among the 995 hospitalized patients, 289 were asymptomatic or hospitalized for a reason unrelated to COVID-19. The median age of patients who died was 82 years; 28 decedents were asymptomatic or died from a cause unrelated to COVID-19. 

The number of reported COVID-19 vaccine breakthrough cases is likely a substantial undercount of all SARS-CoV-2 infections among fully vaccinated persons.

Beginning May 1, 2021, CDC transitioned from monitoring all reported COVID-19 vaccine breakthrough infections to investigating only those among patients who are hospitalized or die, thereby focusing on the cases of highest clinical and public health significance.

CDC will continue to lead studies in multiple U.S. sites to evaluate vaccine effectiveness and collect information on all COVID-19 vaccine breakthrough infections regardless of clinical status. 

 

[preppystudent]

13 hours ago, RubMyThighs said:

All of this is true AND there is still some cause to be reasonably cautious for those so inclined. (And this is a personal choice that I don’t think should be up for debate by other people.) Personally, I am “living my life” fully - including getting massages - while also only having indoor maskless contact with others whom I know have been vaccinated. This is because it is still possible to get mild Covid and even one with a mild case can wind up with “Long Covid.” Two of my friends who had mild cases have now been suffering for months - one with a new heart problem, the other with her hair falling out in her 40s. 
Hopefully it will become clear that this doesn’t happen to those who are vaccinated but since it is too soon to know about the development of “Long Covid,” I’m exercising some caution, but I respect the choices of those who are not concerned. I hope we can all put this behind us soon. 

I've never taken the position that people should be ridiculed for taking whatever precautions the personally would prefer - as long as those people aren't advocating policies that dictate the precautions everyone else should take.  Certainly there is *some* Covid risk involved for fully vaccinated people, but that risk is exceedingly low, so one person's personal decision to be extremely careful is all well and good as long as they aren't taking the position that everyone should follow their example.  ETA: If it wasn't clear, I'm not saying you fall into the "everyone else must do as I say" category - if others were following your lead, I wouldn't have any issue with that whatsoever.

Edited May 26, 2021 by preppystudent

[Mr. Jones]

There is important information that needs to be shared so that people can make intelligent decisions about how to live their lives. Insulting and attacking each other is not furthering that important goal. Thank you to those of you who are calmly sharing vital facts.

[pubic_assistance]

If you actually do some analysis of the data you will find that these huge numbers of people who "died from Covid-19" are part of the usual death rate statistics for the US.   There never was any massive increase in deaths as your ever-over-reaching Government wants you to believe. The uptick in death rate due to Covid leaves us with the same total death rate as 1984 in the US. A year that had no pandemic and the numbers are still UNDER every year prior to 1984. So as they say: "don't believe everything you hear".  Heart disease is still the #1 killer in the US. Not Covid 19

[MisterMike]

34 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

If you actually do some analysis of the data you will find that these huge numbers of people who "died from Covid-19" are part of the usual death rate statistics for the US.   There never was any massive increase in deaths as your ever-over-reaching Government wants you to believe. The uptick in death rate due to Covid leaves us with the same total death rate as 1984 in the US. A year that had no pandemic and the numbers are still UNDER every year prior to 1984. So as they say: "don't believe everything you hear".  Heart disease is still the #1 killer in the US. Not Covid 19

Your post would be more meaningful had you cited a single source of this information. Since you encourage "analysis" go ahead and share the data and your sources. Thanks.