Is There Discrimination Against Clients?

[+ poolboy48220]

I have mixed feelings about this, and I happen to like, appreciate, and be attracted to men of all races. Before I go on, I'm a client, not a masseur or escort. I have hired many masseurs over the past 30 years and perhaps a handful of escorts, although I didn't find out until later that they were escorts (by seeing their escort ads after the fact).

 

For me, when there's a monetary transaction afoot, information is relevant. I don't like yellow, so I wouldn't buy a yellow car or shirt or comforter.

 

Revealing one's race (or weight or height or amount of body hair) is relevant in this sort of monetary transaction.

 

Way back in the days of AOL and the tangential chat rooms and buddy lists, I ventured into the risky young world of online hookups. I was having a great online conversation with a guy who sounded ideal for me at the time. We shared all our personal stats and sexual likes; he was educated and communicated beautifully and was pushing all my buttons. We agreed on a time and place to meet. I drove out to the edge of a college campus in suburban Atlanta and saw the car he had described: a gold 280Z with dark-tinted windows. We pulled up next to each other. His window went down and I saw a handsome black man. I'm talking VERY handsome. He started talking and I couldn't tell you what he said. I was suddenly turned off, and it wasn't because he was a black man: It was because in all the minute details we had shared with each other while chatting on line, he had left that out. Maybe he was ashamed of it or afraid I would stop the chat, by default assuming I was racist. I pretty much told him that. It caused me to wonder about his integrity.

 

This might sound like a lot to consider for an online hookup, I realize, and today, 25 years later, I might handle it differently.

I'm assuming you're white - did you explicitly tell him you were white? This strikes me as "white is the norm, anything else should be disclosed" viewpoint.

[Cannon]

Did you disclose to him that you were white???? Why in the world would he have to disclose he's Black if you didn't have to disclose that you were white????

 

I have mixed feelings about this, and I happen to like, appreciate, and be attracted to men of all races. Before I go on, I'm a client, not a masseur or escort. I have hired many masseurs over the past 30 years and perhaps a handful of escorts, although I didn't find out until later that they were escorts (by seeing their escort ads after the fact).

 

For me, when there's a monetary transaction afoot, information is relevant. I don't like yellow, so I wouldn't buy a yellow car or shirt or comforter.

 

Revealing one's race (or weight or height or amount of body hair) is relevant in this sort of monetary transaction.

 

Way back in the days of AOL and the tangential chat rooms and buddy lists, I ventured into the risky young world of online hookups. I was having a great online conversation with a guy who sounded ideal for me at the time. We shared all our personal stats and sexual likes; he was educated and communicated beautifully and was pushing all my buttons. We agreed on a time and place to meet. I drove out to the edge of a college campus in suburban Atlanta and saw the car he had described: a gold 280Z with dark-tinted windows. We pulled up next to each other. His window went down and I saw a handsome black man. I'm talking VERY handsome. He started talking and I couldn't tell you what he said. I was suddenly turned off, and it wasn't because he was a black man: It was because in all the minute details we had shared with each other while chatting on line, he had left that out. Maybe he was ashamed of it or afraid I would stop the chat, by default assuming I was racist. I pretty much told him that. It caused me to wonder about his integrity.

 

This might sound like a lot to consider for an online hookup, I realize, and today, 25 years later, I might handle it differently.

[mike carey]

Did you disclose to him that you were white???? Why in the world would he have to disclose he's Black if you didn't have to disclose that you were white????

You're right. A lot of things are 'the norm', and people can be forgiven for assuming that someone they 'meet' will conform to the norm until it's demonstrated otherwise. (In our societies the 'norm' is generally white, male, cis, married (or partnered), believer, Christian, even though people who don't conform to each of those are common, and in some cases (male) in fact the minority.) Being surprised by someone not conforming to any of those characteristics is perfectly understandable, putting the onus on them to tell you (apart from a momentary, 'I wish they had told me') is the issue here. We need to be able to check ourselves and reflect on whether it's our own assumptions that are the problem rather than the other person's disclosure or otherwise.

[Cannon]

I dont think he has to know a lot of masseurs to know that to be true. It may not be your practice or your lived experience even but on this forum alone we have had black masseurs, escorts, and clients tell tales of being ghosted or canceled when they were found out to be black or even because they look darker than their pictures. It is insulting to minorities but like they say the truth hurts and facts dont care about your feelings.

Definitely not my experience. When I advertised I had in my profile I that I am Blackety Black Black Black McBlackerson. Let a bigot beware so that there is no mistaking. I don't care the race of my clients. I care if they are sane, hygienic. I do discriminate against pricks as well. The whole thing is ridiculous. Should I only accept Black clients? Of course not, it's ridiculous.

The closest I ever came to having that kind of experience is when I once had a profile on a4a and a guy (white) approached me there for a massage, i clicked on his profile and in his profile he noted he was only into white guys...so I found his inquiry to be quite bizarre. So I said to him, "thank you for the compliment, but I'm obviously not white and I don't want to waste your or my time. Have a wonderful evening." He replied right away saying, "hold on, I'm into all different types of guys", and i said, "well that's what your profile should say. Goodnight."

Out of curiosity I checked his profile maybe 2 minutes later and he had "updated" it to say he was in to "all types of guys"....but I was not about to give a massage to anyone who had excluded guys who look like me and I am not interested in being an exception and that was that on that.

Edited October 16, 2019 by Cannon

[Cannon]

You're right. A lot of things are 'the norm', and people can be forgiven for assuming that someone they 'meet' will conform to the norm until it's demonstrated otherwise. (In our societies the 'norm' is generally white, male, cis, married (or partnered), believer, Christian, even though people who don't conform to each of those are common, and in some cases (male) in fact the minority.) Being surprised by someone not conforming to any of those characteristics is perfectly understandable, putting the onus on them to tell you (apart from a momentary, 'I wish they had told me') is the issue here. We need to be able to check ourselves and reflect on whether it's our own assumptions that are the problem rather than the other person's disclosure or otherwise.

 

You're right. A lot of things are 'the norm', and people can be forgiven for assuming that someone they 'meet' will conform to the norm until it's demonstrated otherwise. (In our societies the 'norm' is generally white, male, cis, married (or partnered), believer, Christian, even though people who don't conform to each of those are common, and in some cases (male) in fact the minority.) Being surprised by someone not conforming to any of those characteristics is perfectly understandable, putting the onus on them to tell you (apart from a momentary, 'I wish they had told me') is the issue here. We need to be able to check ourselves and reflect on whether it's our own assumptions that are the problem rather than the other person's disclosure or otherwise.

Of course it would be his problem for assuming. Perhaps the black guy thought he was meeting another Black guy, yet Scott Dickson didn't announce himself as white...Perhaps the Black guy didnt care what color Scott was going to be, but for Scott to have taken issue with the fact that the guy didn't announce his skin color when Scott also didnt announce his.... wreaks of entitlement.

Reading these things make me so glad I don't advertise anymore. Christ! lol

Edited October 15, 2019 by Cannon

[mike carey]

Of course it would be his problem for assuming.

I think that's what I was saying, but making it a general case rather than just about Scott. I'm not sure whether is is privilege or just a lack of consideration to think, 'You have to disclose this, but I don't'. As gay men we should be aware how tedious it is to have to correct other people's assumptions when they haven't bothered to consider the possibility that they were wrong.

[Cannon]

I think that's what I was saying, but making it a general case rather than just about Scott. I'm not sure whether is is privilege or just a lack of consideration to think, 'You have to disclose this, but I don't'. As gay men we should be aware how tedious it is to have to correct other people's assumptions when they haven't bothered to consider the possibility that they were wrong.

Yes, you and I are on the same page ;-)

[+ Tarte Gogo]

I have now had sex with every shade of skin color you can name, but there used to be a time in my early 20s where I was only seriously attracted to blonds. I have no idea why I was like that.

 

I was never an escort (not hot enough) but if I had been one in those days, I can see how I would have not been able to stay hard and I would have been a terrible escort and a terrible businessman!!!

 

Some people are just not cut for the job, they need to do something else.

[marylander1940]

I have now had sex with every shade of skin color you can name, but there used to be a time in my early 20s where I was only seriously attracted to blonds. I have no idea why I was like that.

 

I was never an escort (not hot enough) but if I had been one in those days, I can see how I would have not been able to stay hard and I would have been a terrible escort and a terrible businessman!!!

 

Some people are just not cut for the job, they need to do something else.

 

Escorts are lucky now to have Viagra!

[hypothetically]

It is always alarming to me that it is predominantly black men who inquire with me if it is ok that they are black, because the frequency of black men refusing to take them as clients is exceptionally high.

[ArmyHands]

this is what i have clearly posted on my website " All Ages / Body Types "Sizes" / Race Welcome"

 

Check me out: http://massagemale4male.com/

[instudiocity]

Really never heard of that. Maybe if your including Indians and the turmeric smell in the curry but idk never smelled bad to me.

My buddy, a South Alabama Redneck* is married to a FOTB** Korean woman. He says, "When one of us eats the kimchi***, we'd better all be eatin' the kimchi!"

 

He says if he doesn't eat kimchi when she does, he can't stand to be around her for about 2 days.

 

*South Alabama Redneck, it's so systemic it's endemic.

** FTOB = Fresh Off The Boat - i.e. she was born in Korea, raised in Korea, then moved here.

***Kimchi = fermented cabbage.

[RomanticRick]

Happened here just couple of days ago. The profile was of a Australian based in Vancouver on RM.

Was quite stunned at this behavior, since there had been no image sharing nor sharing of stats. Solely on the basis of ethnicity, rejected.

[RomanticRick]

Really never heard of that. Maybe if your including Indians and the turmeric smell in the curry but idk never smelled bad to me.

This is fact of life. Stale curry smell is the worst. Here's a recipe :-

Cook curry everyday with garlic in a kitchen with no ventilation and let the *aroma* spread throughout your home, into furniture, drapes / curtains and clothes. If it's winter and you have the heat going, even better!

Make sure you eat the curry also, helps if you're curry lover.

Result :-

Guaranteed your entrance in a room will be announced to everyone with decently functioning olfactory senses.

You will never have guests who overstay their welcome. No need to mention, you will eventually cease getting visitors.

[Rudynate]

This is a reality, and I’m not necessarily sure if I have a problem with it, as escorting is a very “personal” service.

 

Whether it’s social or morally right or wrong is another discussion. But in an Industry where it’s requried for someone to touch, taste, prod and maintain and erection, preferences do come into play.

 

I haven’t had escorting services yet, but tons of massages and I always make it clear that I’m black. Some guys don’t like black guys (their reasons aren’t important to me), and that’s fine.

I’d just rather know that up front and discontinue the conversation, rather than have an awkward moment on the table, or weird communications.

 

As I’ve stated in another post, I’d encourage all service providers to actually state their preferences (race, age, body type, etc.) and would hope they wouldn’t be judged on it either. I’d rather not waste my time in engaging with anyone who does not like me.

 

I’m not saying bigotry is acceptable. I’m saying that the rules are a bit different in the sex industry.

 

Now housing, banking, education, and employment should never involve these factors. But in who one will have sex with is a grey area, regardless of how vile racism (or any other “ism”) is.

 

And quick funny,

The first experience I had with a masseur who didn’t like black guys was actually black... lol....

 

Go figure....

Many years ago, I dated a black man who would only date whites.

[Chad Constantine]

This is fact of life. Stale curry smell is the worst. Here's a recipe :-

Cook curry everyday with garlic in a kitchen with no ventilation and let the *aroma* spread throughout your home, into furniture, drapes / curtains and clothes. If it's winter and you have the heat going, even better!

Make sure you eat the curry also, helps if you're curry lover.

Result :-

Guaranteed your entrance in a room will be announced to everyone with decently functioning olfactory senses.

You will never have guests who overstay their welcome. No need to mention, you will eventually cease getting visitors.

 

Hmm.. I laughed but can't help but feel you are being serious. It would have been funnier if you said leave out cut onions all day or use curry powder because everyone says Brits food sucks and they invented the word curry. I hope you do know you can cook curry everyday without the bad smell though since there are so many variations. Indian curry is good but I prefer Japanese, Thai, and West Indian curries.

[RomanticRick]

Hmm.. I laughed but can't help but feel you are being serious. It would have been funnier if you said leave out cut onions all day or use curry powder because everyone says Brits food sucks and they invented the word curry. I hope you do know you can cook curry everyday without the bad smell though since there are so many variations. Indian curry is good but I prefer Japanese, Thai, and West Indian curries.

Completely serious here. Glad you were amused :-)

Am a curry lover and have been both on the sides, smelling and smelly ;-)

[Monarchy79]

Many years ago, I dated a black man who would only date whites.

Absolutely.... The irony is that if a white guy he pursued rejected him, and preferred other white guys, he’d cry “racism”....black snow queens hate other blacks just about as much as a white racist....

[marylander1940]

Many years ago, I dated a black man who would only date whites.

 

Some Asians are also attracted to white men only.

 

Absolutely.... The irony is that if a white guy he pursued rejected him, and preferred other white guys, he’d cry “racism”....black snow queens hate other blacks just about as much as a white racist....

 

Exactly!

 

but you guys are talking about dating, I wonder if he had been an escort he would have accepted black client$.

[Monarchy79]

Some Asians are also attracted to white men only.

 

 

 

Exactly!

 

but you guys are talking about dating, I wonder if he had been an escort he would have accepted black client$.

 

If the black guy were an escort, he would more than likely reject all potential black clients.

[Rudynate]

Absolutely.... The irony is that if a white guy he pursued rejected him, and preferred other white guys, he’d cry “racism”....black snow queens hate other blacks just about as much as a white racist....

 

 

He treated his white boyfriends kind of like trophies. It was interesting. He was great sex. Not long ago, I saw him for the first time in years. He aged beautifully.

[marylander1940]

If the black guy were an escort, he would more than likely reject all potential black clients.

 

Why do you think that way?

[RunnerGuy]

The stereotype, true or not, is that certain south Asians have a certain body smell because of spices used in their cooking. Also daily or twice-daily showers are not a universal thing. But providers often extend that stereotype to all Asians. It's a prejudice they need to get over and deal with on a one-to-one basis.

 

I'm of South Asian heritage. Yes, some can smell very strongly of garlic, onions or tumeric. I was super conscious of this growing up as a brown kid in a white and Asian neighborhood. If I had friends over, I would ask them if my house "smelled." There would be "normal" food like Doritos in the pantry.

 

I have had masseurs ask me if I am "Indian Indian" or native American. I have been asked if I smell, and have been asked if I smell like curry. I don't eat a lot of Indian food and do not, but sure if I was cooking onions for Indian, Italian, Korean or whatever cuisine I would "smell" (I personally find that guys who consume a lot of cow's milk have certain scent).

 

I always show up to a massage showered. Only once has a masseur turned me away at the door -- maybe I wasn't his "type" (he claimed to have not received confirmation which was a lie). Maybe he didn't like brown guys.

 

Discrimination is very real and I do think Asians have it the worst (I say this being a subset of Asians). I have a friend who worked in product at Grindr and one of the reasons they implemented the Kindr policy and flag options were specifically to address the anti-Asian comments on the app. You can still read vestiges of then on the site Douchebags of Grindr. They're really racist. Be warned.

[+ tassojunior]

I'm of South Asian heritage. Yes, some can smell very strongly of garlic, onions or tumeric. I was super conscious of this growing up as a brown kid in a white and Asian neighborhood. If I had friends over, I would ask them if my house "smelled." There would be "normal" food like Doritos in the pantry.

 

I have had masseurs ask me if I am "Indian Indian" or native American. I have been asked if I smell, and have been asked if I smell like curry. I don't eat a lot of Indian food and do not, but sure if I was cooking onions for Indian, Italian, Korean or whatever cuisine I would "smell" (I personally find that guys who consume a lot of cow's milk have certain scent).

 

I always show up to a massage showered. Only once has a masseur turned me away at the door -- maybe I wasn't his "type" (he claimed to have not received confirmation which was a lie). Maybe he didn't like brown guys.

 

Discrimination is very real and I do think Asians have it the worst (I say this being a subset of Asians). I have a friend who worked in product at Grindr and one of the reasons they implemented the Kindr policy and flag options were specifically to address the anti-Asian comments on the app. You can still read vestiges of then on the site Douchebags of Grindr. They're really racist. Be warned.

lol

 

[+ tassojunior]