Self Esteem vs Self Respect

[Epigonos]

As I've stated many times on this site I taught in a public high school for thirty-six years. Over the years I came to absolutely loathe the term self esteem ie. If I openly admonished a student for not doing his/her homework the mother would often come charging up to school to complain that I had seriously harmed her child's self esteem. Most teachers came to see self esteem as a meaningless trait that everybody possessed simply because of the fact of their birth and was thus worthless. Self respect, on the other hand, is something that people/students EARNED because of their work, demeanor, behavior, etc.

OK guy come and get me.

Edited September 16, 2018 by Epigonos

[+ José Soplanucas]

[Epigonos]

Damn Latbear4blk Madonna nailed that role. I've never been Madonna's greatest fan but have always been fascinated by Evita. I've always found her one of the most interesting people in 20th century Latin American history.

[+ José Soplanucas]

Damn Latbear4blk Madonna nailed that role. I've never been Madonna's greatest fan but have always been fascinated by Evita. I've always found her one of the most interesting people in 20th century Latin American history.

 

She could have signed your OP words, my darling.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2013/07/oh-yes.gif

[Redwine56]

As I've stated many times on this site that I taught in a public high school for thirty-six years. Over the years I came to absolutely loathe the term self esteem ie. If I openly admonished a student for not doing his/her homework the mother would often come charging up to school to complain that I had seriously harmed her child's self esteem. Most teachers came to see self esteem as a meaningless trait that everybody possessed simply because of the fact of their birth and was thus worthless. Self respect, on the other hand, is something that people/students EARNED because of their work, demeanor, behavior, etc.

OK guy come and get me.

EPIGONOS - This is a perfect example of the problems with today's youth. As a teacher, you can do so much to teach values and respect for educators but I firmly believe that it all starts in the home. If the youth are not getting the guidance and discipline which is inherent in good parenting but instead are spoiled rotten and get everything they want, they grow up with a sense of misguided entitlement. I see it in the workplace with the milennials who seem to think they deserve a promotion and raise every 6 months for just doing their job. It was a different time when we grew up. If our parents heard that our teacher reprimanded us, they wanted to know what we didn't do that we were supposed to do. There was very little doubt that the teacher was right.

[jawjateck]

Epi, too bad I'm not in the OC. We'd pop open a bottle of wine, and I'd talk you off the ledge.

[bnm73]

They didn't do their job, and they didn't even try. They SHOULD feel bad.

 

And you can quote me on that.

[mike carey]

It's gotta be Julie Covington!

 

[liubit]

If our parents heard that our teacher reprimanded us, they wanted to know what we didn't do that we were supposed to do. There was very little doubt that the teacher was right.

That’s exactly how it worked at my home: the teacher was always right. I dare say that my siblings and I didn’t turn out bad as a result.

[+ WilliamM]

The best teachers learn to add a bit of praise to critical comments

[bigvalboy]

It's gotta be Julie Covington!

 

 

Wonderful...

[+ WilliamM]

It does not all start in the home. Good teachers make a difference.

[+ FreshFluff]

As I've stated many times on this site I taught in a public high school for thirty-six years. Over the years I came to absolutely loathe the term self esteem ie. If I openly admonished a student for not doing his/her homework the mother would often come charging up to school to complain that I had seriously harmed her child's self esteem. Most teachers came to see self esteem as a meaningless trait that everybody possessed simply because of the fact of their birth and was thus worthless. Self respect, on the other hand, is something that people/students EARNED because of their work, demeanor, behavior, etc.

OK guy come and get me.

 

Did most of these incidents happen over the past few years?

 

Parents get mad when their kids are called out, but the real issue may have been that you docked their grades. College admissions have become extraordinarily competitive recently, and today's parents are willing to browbeat teachers into awarding higher grades. My hometown paper's comments section is full of complaints about teachers who are "stingy" with As and thus "ruin" their child's chance of getting into college.

[bnm73]

The best teachers learn to add a bit of praise to critical comments

Perhaps, but how do you praise "you didn't do or turn in your homework?"

[bigvalboy]

I will have to disagree with some of the comments from above. I had at times (not frequently) but at times, a different life's experience regarding school. I come from a long line of educators and administrators, and I had teachers in elementary school and Junior High (now middle school) who were clearly in the wrong, and while I was too young to understand they're behavior, thankfully I had parents who did, and stepped forward to protect me. As noble a profession as it is, teachers, like any other group in society, are as flawed as the rest of us.

 

(Please no emails or private messages)

Edited September 17, 2018 by bigvalboy

[+ WilliamM]

I will have to disagree with some of the comments from above. I had at times (not frequently) but at times, a different life's experience regarding school. I come from a long line of educators and administrators, and I had teachers in school who were clearly in the wrong, and while I was too young to understand they're behavior, thankfully I had parents who did, and step forward to protect me. As noble a profession as it is, teachers, like any other group in society, are as flawed as the rest of us.

 

(Please no emails or private messages)

 

l had a kind and smart third grade teacher in the early 1950s who kept studends back to repeat the third grade and knew more than the principal about child abuse

[Redwine56]

It does not all start in the home. Good teachers make a difference.

Absolutely . . . Especially if the parents are pre-occupied for various reasons or if there even are parents for that matter, the child may look even more so to the teacher for a role model and guidance in any number of ways.

[bigvalboy]

l had a kind and smart third grade teacher in the early 1950s who kept studends back to repeat the third grade and knew more than the principal about child abuse

 

Unfortunately my teachers in elementary school were smart, but not so kind. It was the 50's and a different time. I didn't get it, but my parents did. College was a different story. My professors were mostly brilliant and had a long lasting positive affect on my life.

[Redwine56]

Look, I'll be honest. I had/have problems concentrating, and the worked piled up over the semester. I was admonished for this regularly, and it wasn't pleasant. In any case, I didn't share the admonishments or my feelings about them with my parents.

Well now, this is a different story. If you needed assistance and couldn't keep up with the assignments and you sought help and the teacher was aware of it, to admonishment you for that reason is certainly unfair and out of order. If the teacher didn't know about it, he/she would have thought that you just weren't doing the work without good reason.

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

Self-esteem is saying you can take the biggest cocks in an orgy

 

Self-respect is knowing better... Well, sometimes

[+ sniper]

I will say when I was a HS senior and working 30+ hours a week it pissed me off when the teacher would make a snarky comment about me not having done my homework when 3/4 of the class(snotty rich kids) were copying and not doing it themselves anyway.

[bnm73]

Self esteem is feeling good about yourself.

 

Self respect is having a reason to feel good about yourself.

[nynakedtop]

The best teachers learn to add a bit of praise to critical comments

And the very best teachers realize that it is not all about academics... it is also about the social and emotional development of the students they have.

 

That is why a good teacher knows as much as possible about their students -- their home life, the family situation, the non-cognitive stressors that take place in their lives. And a good teacher makes the classroom inclusive and diversifies instruction so that every student has the same chance to achieve at the highest level.

[Epigonos]

I seriously though twice about starting this thread and it's obvious to me that I made a mistake. Reading many of your comments it is obvious that you never taught school. The average public high school classroom teacher faces approximately 150 to 175 students daily. The average public high school student faces approximately 5 to 6 teachers daily. With those odds guess who must make the adjustments teachers are not messiahas, they can't save the world and they can't meet the needs of all their students every day. Additionally, believe it or not, teachers do have lives and families of their own whose needs they also need to meet. I also found it absurd when some teachers claimed to love their students. I used to tell my students I don't love you, I love my family and I love my friends. I care about whether or not you succeed in my class BUT only as much as you do. I refused to claim that I cared enough for both of us - that's simply not possible. When my students complained about a teacher (some of whom were jerks and assholes) I always responded that those teachers were in actuality outstanding life lessons. All of their lives they were going to have to deal jerks and assholes and the sooner they learned to deal with them the better.

When someone complains that teachers are stingy with "A" grades keep in mind that college and university administrators and professors constantly accuse high school teacher of ridiculous grade inflation. Frankly you're damned if you do and your damned if you don't . Also keep in mind that academic intelligence in only one type of intelligence but over the last few decades it is the only one that people have come to value. It is certainly true that ALL students need additional educational opportunity after graduation from high school, however, ALL students do NOT need additional academic educational opportunities after graduation from high school.

I taught A.P. Art History. The A.P. stands for advanced placement. At the end of the class all A.P. Art History students world wide take the same examination at the same time on the same day. The exam is graded by a panel of readers in New Jersey. Students exams are graded from 0 to 5. Those scoring 3 or above pass the test and may received college/university credit. Some colleges and universities give credits for a score of 3 others require scores of 4 or 5. Every year I had parents complain that I was demanding too much of their child, that I was moving too fast, and that I wasn't meeting their child's needs. They were correct. The exam covered a 1200 page text book that had to be taught in three quarters. Many of the students taking the class weren't even interested in taking the exam and receiving college/university credit. The stupid fucking University of California decided in their ultimate wisdom that students would receive an extra grade point for simply taking an A.P. class. Thus if a students received an "A" in an A.P. the students received 5 grade points not the usual 4. Talk about inflated GPA's.

Also keep in mind that forty or fifty years ago the best job opportunities for women were teaching, nursing and being a secretary. That has now changed and there are excellent opportunities for qualified women in many rewarding fields of endeavor where financial rewards are far greater than in teaching. Thus many of the best educated and motivated women are not going into teaching. When I first started teaching high school about 60% of the teachers were men, about 20% were young unmarried women and about 20% were women whose children were grown and they were returning to teaching. When I retired from teaching about 70% of high school teachers were women many of whom were young and only about 30% were men. Many of the problems that developed during that period were caused by what I call "mommyism" -- young women who taught for the benefits, the length of the school year and the hours of the school day. They were married with young children and they rolled into school with the students and raced the students to their cars at the end of the last school period. They were was to busy once at home to correct papers, prepare exams, or read papers. If came to rely on pre-prepared work sheets and exams and they didn't assign written papers.

I taught 36 years and I loved it from the minute I walked into my first class in the fall of 1966 until I walked out of my last class in the spring of 2002. Early on I realized that in dealing with 15, 16, 17, and 18 year olds my influence was going to be very minor. High school teacher aren't likely to change the live and attitudes of kids who have been influenced by their parents for fifteen plus years.

Edited September 17, 2018 by Epigonos

[P Gren]

As I've stated many times on this site I taught in a public high school for thirty-six years. Over the years I came to absolutely loathe the term self esteem ie. If I openly admonished a student for not doing his/her homework the mother would often come charging up to school to complain that I had seriously harmed her child's self esteem. Most teachers came to see self esteem as a meaningless trait that everybody possessed simply because of the fact of their birth and was thus worthless. Self respect, on the other hand, is something that people/students EARNED because of their work, demeanor, behavior, etc.

OK guy come and get me.

Hard to choose, I think both are important. The way you are describing them, I'd say one (self-esteem) was an internal assessment, and the other (self-respect) was and external assessment.