SouthOfTheBorder

9 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

Most of the guys who have sex for money aren't actually into it.

disagree & who cares ?  

I get turned on by guys who have sex for money. I think most are into it for whatever reason.  For those that may not be into it - doesn’t matter if they deliver.

recently had a straight guy who had to watch straight porn in a session: super turn-on for me & I loved it.  his performance was exceptional & he wanted to keep going when I was ready to stop. 

worrying about whether or not someone is “into-it” defeats the entire point. it’s a financial transaction for a service. making it more is a sure way to disappointment 

In Ft Lauderdale, they don’t require women to be accompanied by men - there is no chance the Ft L location would be overrun by women at any time due to the loyal local gay clientele & gay tourists. 
Tampa & Chicago would be totally different in terms of client demographics & women could overwhelm those clubs without a policy.  And then it would be something else entirely.

the owner is trying to duplicate the success of Ft L - but the unique factors that make it successful just don’t exist anywhere else.  Plus, the available talent pool of dancers in Miami/Ft Lauderdale with constant new arrivals is unique there too. 

6 hours ago, augustus said:

Florida is beautiful in the fall and winter months.  

not anymore.  the times of year when the weather was beautiful (December - April) now routinely get storms, heat & high humidity.  It seems like July/August 
There are the occasional perfect days, but not months of beautiful weather.

plus, the traffic in S Florida is about the worst in the entire country.  the regular flooding of certain areas now makes it worse 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0u0yXNkEUg

the same, but different 

Lauren Sanchez - 2024, White House State Dinner for Japan 

legit massages - 1x week.  full-service providers about 1x month.  

when traveling - then could me much more depending on destination 

thanks for reminding me why I don’t use the hookup apps.  

it seems like for the hours & hours guys spend on those apps - they are relatively few good outcomes.  and yet, everyone is up to give it another shot, expecting something different ? 

11 hours ago, Simon Suraci said:

I’ll share the following because I know that many of you respect honesty and straight talk. A lot of providers don’t want to share this type of stuff openly because many clients are uneducated and carry around unfair biases and misinformation around sex and sexual health and use it to demonize us. The concern is clients will hold such information against us thinking “So-and-so had such and such last year. Ohhh better not hire him because I might catch the same thing”. It’s not fair because your average msm bareback hookup is going to be a much higher risk to you than hiring a professional. Hiring an experienced pro with a head on his shoulders is going to be relatively much safer for you than random sex in the wild

@Simon Suraci thank you for this candid post.

my sense has always been sex w established providers is safer in all respects vs random guys in the wild.  

the reasons nobody wants to discuss STIs in personal terms are very complicated -  there’s the general shame one feels for having contracted an STI, potential shaming from healthcare providers, potential stigma by others and then there’s just not wanting to ruin the fantasy that is largely driven by unrealistic porn that almost everyone consumes these days.  

I’m lucky - I live in a big city with easy access to non-judgmental healthcare, but yet I still feel like I failed or did something wrong when contracted an STI in the past.  I don’t have much sex compared to the average person in a big city & don’t participate in the apps - I practice safer sex w condoms most of the time.  And yet - it has happened to me.  And if it’s happening to me, then it’s happening to many others as well.  They just don’t talk about it. 

Now, when hiring providers - the first in-person conversation is about sexual health and how we can proceed.  It’s not sexy, but it’s honest and can build trust immediately.  Trust & honesty = better sex.  Uncomfortable conversations are frequently the most necessary conversations.

25 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

The others are simply a victim of the collapse of the middle class in the United States.

this sounds accurate - plus, consumer tastes are changing.  due to Instagram & other social media platforms, RL type restaurants are no longer in fashion because they’re too mass market - the 40 & under crowd want an “experience” & something precious now ……that isn’t gonna happen at RL.  
Combine all that with foolish money-losing (desperate) promotions and the writing is on the wall.  you can’t make money when people are only coming to all you can eat whatever - probably very little high margin alcohol sold also bc the clientele just won’t pay.

1 hour ago, boyfriend_experience said:

Your question is understandable towards us providers but keep in mind that an average gay in a big city have unprotected sex with multiple partners daily.

agree - the question was to providers because the job depends on being healthy.  my assumption was providers would be more likely to engage in safer practices & mitigation than the average city person on the apps.

some Thermas tips 

1. go early - before it gets crowded.  Thermas is big and spread across 3 floors - it can be disorienting to arrive when filed with providers & clients. Plus - it’s competitive & the locals/regulars will always go for their favorites who are usually the most in-demand. Arriving when it’s crowded puts you at a disadvantage. I like to arrive at opening about 3p and watch as providers/ clients arrive. 

2. get familiar with the layout - because it is confusing.  I’d recommend a complete walk-through of the entire place at least once to take note of spa facilities & bar (first floor), all showers (first & second floors).  And the one private bathroom on first floor with a douche - the key to that bathroom is at reception and depending on the attendant, they may require you buy an attachment or if you have your own, then a tip to get the key.  Return the key asap as there may be others waiting.

3. there will always be guys hanging around the reception area & watching the clients locker room.  the game is to snag clients in that area & before they can see the other providers.  don’t fall for it.

4. like anywhere else - be cautious if anyone offers you anything to ingest. last time I was there, a provider offered candy between sessions - upon inspection it was potent edible marijuana. there are a couple guys there routinely selling things - I’d avoid them & whatever they have.  they are obvious & likely will make an approach at some point. 

5. the free cabins are fine for 30 minutes & the staff cleans continuously- but that doesn’t mean you’ll always get a fresh cabin.  If you want to make sure it’s clean - then private rooms. Again - getting there early ensures access to private rooms - when it’s crowded you may wait and sometimes they don’t open up at all. 

6. you dont need ID to get in - leave passports & valuables in your hotel safe.  I carry a set amount of cash, one credit card & phone.  I don’t leave those items in the locker - I carry them with me in a small pack at all times.  you need cash for the guys - everything else can be on credit card.

7. bring your own condoms & lube.  the condoms provided are the most basic & the lube is almost nonexistent.  the guys appreciate good quality condoms & it makes a big difference.  I like to bring my own antibacterial soap along too - just to be extra careful between sessions.  availability of soap in the showers is not a sure thing.

8. if smoking bothers you - avoid the area on the second floor where smokers congregate.  for people who smoke, it’s ideal place to engage the guys in a more relaxed environment.

9. don’t be afraid to say no.  you will be approached many times by guys who may not be your type.  there’s not pressure per se, but they are direct and don’t want to waste time.  they are used to no & it’s just part of the environment.  polite & firm gets the message across.  

10. you will pay for everything at the end & check your final bill carefully.  if buying drinks for providers, make sure you are clear at that time what you’re offering. an offer for a drink can easily turn into a full meal - and that’s fine if that is what you’re offering.  if spending a few hours there, the charges can add up quickly. 

11. don’t be afraid to tell the provider exactly what you want - they’re professionals and have seen it all, several times.  no reason to be embarrassed.  If there is a language barrier - use google translate or show them a video of the type of scene you want. a video is easiest way to get the clear message across & I’ve seen several clients do it.

a very sad story - although it feels like pieces are missing.  the comment that the killing looked like a “crime of passion” is somewhat out of context in the story and then the dispute about whether the victim knew the killer well.  It’s as if they are suggesting the killer & victim were involved, which what the husband would want people to think

this could happen in many other places - but, it happened in Rio and if the victim wasn’t a high-profile/wealthy American it would hardly be newsworthy.  
Desperate people do desperate things - for money. 

22 hours ago, Thique said:

What does 50 euro get you? 

that depends on the client.  
as a suggestion, chat up your potential hire at the bar & buy him a drink. use the time at the bar to do all the small talk, negotiate exactly what you want & whatever else you need to check before committing.  
this is typical & makes your time in the cabin more efficient - when you get into the cabin, you can get right to it & maximize the time. the bar is on the lowest floor.

i would not hire someone on the other floors & go directly to a room without a conversation at the bar.  most will welcome the drink, give you better service & the bar has better lighting.

as mentioned previously, it’s been my experience that the best guys (most in demand) do not approach clients aggressively.  the agressive guys are the ones to avoid. All are easily approachable - don’t be shy during prime time or you might not get your preferred guys.

1 hour ago, Jamie21 said:

. I think what people see on porn is what they like or want to do in sessions so that ‘no condom’ thing transfers over

one of the reasons I started this thread is that I always feel like the odd man out - when I’m requesting a top use a condom or I choose to use one as top.  
as @Jamie21 says - the discontinuation of condoms in porn in seems to carry over into real life.  That combined with new morning after pills (DoxyPep) appears to have been a game-changer.  Among younger people and providers - the default now is no condoms.

Truth to be told - I don’t want to use condoms either.  I much prefer the intimacy & no-fuss of condomless sex.  The thing is I’m outside of the US (my home country) about 75% of the time and I can’t imagine dealing with STI testing & treatment in foreign places.  It’s definitely doable - but at what cost in finding healthcare, language barriers & general frustration ?

31 minutes ago, soloyo215 said:

that some people might just feel that they don;t need to test or that they are completely safe because they use condoms.

And as @soloyo215 rightly points out, condoms are not 100% effective either, although they do significantly mitigate the probability of STI transmission.

I love sex.  I’d have a lot more of it if not for my anxiety around STIs.  I have a partner & we have a fulfilling & robust sex life still going after 16 years.  And I still like some variety now & again by way of providers.  For me, it’s about making better choices to reduce the chances of STI transmission for me & my partners.  Condom use is my default,  but I’m not 100% perfect on that.  There are times when I’ve made a different decision for one reason or another.  It’s also about context - I’d never go bareback in a sauna or in a public setting.  I might choose to do it with a provider who I’ve known over time.

I just feel like this whole topic is something very confusing. The messaging we receive is condomless sex is now the standard & everybody is doing it that way.  Yet, when I visit my doc in NYC w a primary gay practice, he tells me that some STIs are showing signs of abating & others are skyrocketing (gonorrhea).  I also understand that I am responsible for my choices & my sexual health - nobody else.

My worst STI experience over the years has been parasites from rimming. I had it 2x.  Incredibly painful & not easy to diagnose or know what’s happening unless you’ve had it before.  To diagnose properly it requires a stool sample.  It’s easily curable once you get the diagnosis and right meds (Flagyl).  But in general - a horrible experience.  Needless to say, rimming is off the table for me now based on those 2 experiences.

im really interested in “tricks of the trade” to reduce STI transmission.  One very well known provider I hired arrived with a gym bag full of his personal cleansing routine for after session.  I noticed antibacterial soaps, mouthwash, etc - he spent about 30 minutes in a hot shower in a complete scrubdown. I’ve also been told it’s very important to pee right after sex to help in clearing any bacteria.  I’m wondering if after rinse in the butt would help too ?  I’ve seen blogs by female providers saying they do “dick checks” on clients as one way to mitigate - not foolproof of course, but maybe a way to see something obvious.  As mentioned - these are the things nobody talks about.

for providers - serious question, how do you take care of your sexual health with the current standard of unprotected sex ?  I’m not talking about hiv because that’s almost irrelevant w Prep and most positive gay men on meds.  But that leaves a lot of STIs that can still cause major problems/discomfort.

for me, condoms aren’t a moral question or decision but rather a practical one.  I just don’t want to spend unnecessary time going to the doctor, testing & then meds if I should be exposed to an sti.  
i can remember a phone call from a provider years ago saying he had an sti and I should go get tested.  I appreciated the call & sure enough - I had it too.  Ever since then it’s been condoms for me - it just seems that mixing with so many people it would be statistically difficult to manage sexual health.

Im wondering how working providers who routinely engage in unprotected sex w multiple partners can stay healthy ?   Most guys say they are tested every 2-3 months, but is that even enough ?

My understanding of DoxyPep is that it’s useful after occasional unprotected sex, but not meant as a routine - maybe I’m misinformed on that - and that really only treats Chlamydia & Syphilis, not gonorrhea and all the others.

if the providers have any tricks of the trade used to mitigate, I’d like to know that.  And is there any sort of discreet visual inspection that can be done of potential partners ?  do providers ever decline clients if something doesn’t look right ?

I don’t think anyone actually likes condoms - some people are just more risk averse than others.  And almost nobody discusses or acknowledges contracting an STI.  Honestly, this is my biggest hangup about sex.  
My sense is established professional providers are more on top of their sexual health than the average person - just another reason why I avoid the apps and prefer paid encounters.  

I’ve found almost nobody wants to discuss this subject in personal terms - it’s always in the abstract and seemingly unrealistic w very little acknowledgement of the real world. It could be my fears are unfounded - and if that’s the case, I’d like to get perspective on that too

Ive seen references in other threads about having conversations w providers about sexual health & practices - I’d like to know how that ideally goes from a providers perspective 

  And yes - I know all things carry some risk - it’s about making better choices, maybe not perfect ones.

On 5/3/2024 at 10:39 AM, nopelo said:

To me an escort is a professional with an amount of class, and typically high prices, pretty faces and gymmed up bodies, often gay and frequent visitors to the hottest party events. That's the total opposite of what I look for, I like guys who are a bit more real, masculine, less cultivated and even less professional if you like, guys with a day job and maybe kids, who want some extra fun and money on the side. If they are young, that's cool, as long as they are manly, but my preference is guys 30-40 years old.

the OP description of escort is actually a very small subset of professional providers.  The vast majority are far more average types no matter the place.

the subsequent preferred description of a “bit more real, masculine……” is more like the typical providers in Brazil & Thailand, where they have a fairly well developed market for this exact thing. There are hundreds of guys that fit that description. 

idk - maybe the attraction for Africa is going somewhere where it’s more difficult/risky/dangerous ?  If the purpose is to meet men, that just doesn’t seem worthwhile to travel all that way & then perhaps a letdown when it doesn’t work out for whatever reason.
 

event tho it’s totally fine to cancel with 24 hours notice - this is why many providers want same day only. 

just my opinion, but appointments for a sex service,  there are just too many variables to schedule in advance.  

making & cancelling appointments for whatever reason is a huge waste of everyone’s time. 

it’s also about context - if only one person had a bad experience & the provider otherwise well vetted by client,  then could all be for nothing 
 

he’s not a regular in BCN.  beware of moving around & no reviews 

9 hours ago, viewing ownly said:

When I let the masseur know any time will work for me, so whatever works best for you

wrong approach bc it’s way too vague.  

2-3 texts max to schedule, including your preferred time & place.  some flexibility, but not for the flakes.

a key decision point is how provider responds to inquires & ease of scheduling.  If it’s cumbersome & problematic- then you can expect that to carry through if there is ever an actual appointment. 

2 hours ago, jessmapex said:

While some providers are kind and good-hearted people, a majority are not.

I disagree - I’ve found the opposite to be true in personal experience. 

It’s all about the selection process & treating people well, meaning providers are treated exactly like any other guest or person providing a personal service.  I also pay attention to what my instincts say - sometimes it’s just a look in the eyes that tells me no. 

there are some guys that go into this work thinking it’s easy money, with bad intentions or w overwhelming personal problems - they generally don’t last, are not well-reviewed and can be avoided.

I’ve never been asked for a loan by a provider.  If it happened, I wouldn’t hire that person again because it’s just unprofessional.  

get used to saying no to people for any unreasonable request or something that just makes you uncomfortable- makes life much easier. 

On 2/28/2024 at 1:47 AM, Moke said:

1.  Always tip enthusiastic service

there are other threads about tipping for various service types: wait staff, barbers, massage therapists, providers, etc

the American concept behind tipping was always to supplement someone who may not receive full benefit of payment - like a barber who does not own the shop, or a massage therapist who works in a spa owned by someone else.  
If someone receives full benefit of payment, then no tip required for services provided.  

no rules against whatever anyone wants to tip  - but in provider context it seems to set up a vague expectation ripe for disappointment or misinterpretation.  I’d much rather have a provider quote a rate that they are happy to receive without an expectation of additional tips. At $300-$400 an hour these days - that is a far cry from restaurant wait staff working at below minimum wage, dependent on tips to survive.

i see frequent tipping requests in pharmacies, convenience stores & fast food restaurants these days in US….its completely & totally out of control.

re; shorting on time or inability to perform - depends on context.  If the provider is stable & reasonable then negotiate.  if any signs of aggression or instability - pay in full & leave asap.

22 hours ago, MaybeMaybeNot said:

If people want to watch him, more power to them.  There is an audience for him

FYI - the OnlyFans creator being discussed is SantanaXXL.  He is a very successful OF creator in terms of likes, subscribers & income generated. OF “likes” can only be made by subscribers which is an indicator of subscribers/income.  He’s so successful that he maintains a separate site that sells various merchandise - very few OF creators generate enough interest for merchandise sales. 

While his audience may not be the people here - he has a huge audience that supports him.  He routinely films with very popular creators that do fit with more traditional ideas of male beauty & sexy - he doesn’t seem to have any problem getting willing collaborators.  Obviously they know the upside of appearing with him and/or there is an attraction. btw - he has 788,000 followers on Twitter

I tend to have far more respect for anyone that manages to succeed while overcoming societal expectations, discrimination, judgment through their own drive, ambition & despite all the odds.  I can only imagine how many times this guy was told he couldn’t do exactly what he did. 

33 minutes ago, Monarchy79 said:

Hard Truth: Gay men (for the most part) are mean to each other. In fact, so mean, that there are tons of social media posts, Reddit threads and discussion points on the topic. 

true 

the abused/marginalized frequently recreate the abusive dynamic as the aggressor when they feel someone is below them, or less than, for whatever reason.  
and many are too damaged and lacking any self-awareness to know 

many gay men share a history of being bullied & mocked as children/teens when they didn’t fit-in, looking & acting different.

funny how some haven’t learned as adults how to extend grace when someone looks/acts different

i guarantee there are people in all of our lives that don’t understand our choices - and they don’t need to.  same thing 

the quickest way to ruin a relationship is to loan money to family or friends.  when it doesn’t get repaid, resentment ensues.  not worth it.

let someone else be the bank 

15 hours ago, Marc in Calif said:

The "locals" will take money from any visitor

100% not true as it relates to Thermas, in my experience 

the good guys will take almost 95% of clients, but there are always a few clients that stand out as potential problems & the best guys don’t lack for options - they just don’t want to deal with bad people at any price.  
The working guys are generally open to all ages, ethnicities, body types & specific requests - it’s a bad attitude that is the deal killer.  Because they know a potential client w a bad attitude will never get better, only worse. 
There are different types of guys working in the sauna & you will be sorted accordingly. You won’t be aware of it, but that’s what’s happening behind the scenes. Frequently, the clients w bad attitudes get bad experiences….because the guys think that person deserves it and their performance really doesn’t matter. 

go with an open mind, reasonable expectations, a good attitude & money - you will find what you want at Thermas.