Simon Suraci

Thanks @nycman. Your feedback represents pretty much what I thought, especially from those living in Manhattan. Thanks everyone else for their contributions so far, and keep your opinions coming. They all matter to me.

Crazy. Some cities that’s the price for an entire day. San Diego downtown is close to that range (for a day, not an hour).

Anyone can participate. Opinions from people who have knowledge of NYC or live there will be more relevant. I was trying to set up a more focused, productive discussion since NYC is unlike so many other US cities. The mentality and cultural norms I believe are unique. The transportation infrastructure in NYC is different from most of the country. Sense of space, distance, and time are also different. For example, people in San Diego wouldn’t dream of driving 30 mins north to see me outside of central neighborhoods, whereas people in Ft Worth wouldn’t think twice about driving 30 mins to an hour in traffic to see me in Dallas. Each place has its own norms. Since other cities will have their own quirks regarding travel distances, convenience and the like, I figured it would be best to keep the discussion more specific to NYC.

I was wondering about the outcall massage via train situation. I’m so used to driving with my equipment, parking nearby to my clients, and setting up that way. I imagine I would have to take trains to do a lot of the outcalls in NYC because driving and parking would be impractical in most areas of the city. Just assumptions on my part. Lugging a table around on a train. Doesn’t sound fun, especially when they’re crowded. I at least strap the table to a skateboard so I can push it rather than put all that pressure on my back slung over the shoulders walking several blocks at a time. For stairs only buildings, I just have to suck it up.

Or any mode of transportation, really. I realize many New Yorkers do not own cars, but some do, and others prefer rideshares or taxis over trains. Reminder to all: this thread is not necessarily about whether you would travel to see me, specifically. I spin the question from my perspective as an example, to give it stakes. I realize I am not a fit for everyone in terms of type or service offerings, and that’s fine. I’m wondering more generally about how New Yorkers think about traveling providers that interest them and what dynamics are at play in their decision making. You could swap me out with anyone that interests you posing the same question. Clients hiring for massage is of particular interest to me, but some of the same issues apply to escort only services too.

Thanks. Good to know. I would definitely travel for couples massages. Doubling up on the fee for back to back service makes outcalls worthwhile. Couples oftentimes feel much more comfortable in their own homes or likewise at their accommodations when they are traveling. I enjoy giving couples massages.

So…many of you at various points have expressed interest in seeing me in NYC. I’ll frame this question to clients as it pertains to me and my business approach, but it’s a question relevant to hiring any provider visiting NYC, especially those offering massage in addition to, or instead of escort services. We might apply some of the ideas in this thread to other expensive cities like Miami, San Francisco, or others, but NYC is its own unique animal. This thread will focus specifically on New York City. Would you consider traveling outside the boroughs to see a traveling provider that interests you? My gut tells me no, that very few New Yorkers are willing to travel miles away to see a masseur or escort. Particularly for those of you in Manhattan, I assume you wouldn’t even want to leave the island to visit Brooklyn, Queens, or the Bronx. Heck, even going to one neighborhood in Manhattan vs another might be too much of an inconvenience for you. The city is teeming with good options, for massages and for sex, so I personally can’t blame any client for not considering traveling that far. Perhaps you might for a famous porn star you’ve followed for years, or someone really special to you, but probably not some guy you heard was good, but maybe only checks some of your boxes. You would see him if it were convenient and a good price, but not if he were further than a few subway stops away or charging a higher price. Am I wrong? Why I ask this question is multifold: 1) I can spend the same amount of time circuiting mid size cities and make a higher profit margin. It’s very expensive staying in NYC. To net something comparable on a per-day or per-week basis, I concluded that I would necessarily have to raise my rates on a “per city” basis i.e. only when visiting NYC or another large, expensive metro. I don’t like that. I don’t want to do that. I sure as hell know I can’t compete with the local talent at the same or higher rates as they are charging. My services have value, but not any moreso than your best guys available in the boroughs. It just doesn’t make sense to put in the same or higher level of effort for a net income less than what I can earn elsewhere. 2) Clients hate when providers change their rates by city. Am I wrong? At best, it causes confusion. At worst, it puts clients off. I can’t display different rates on my ads because it confuses clients viewing me in other cities. So the only option is to “surprise” clients with a higher quote when they inquire about the expensive city I am visiting. Clients would feel frustrated that what I advertise doesn’t match what I quote. The worst is having to answer the “Rates?” question text not knowing which city a client is inquiring about and teasing out that info before answering. So yeah…all around I really do NOT want to raise rates by city. I’d rather be consistent. I want to offer a solid value proposition wherever I am. 3) My business model is to drive. To do my work in a professional manner, I bring lots of equipment and supplies I can’t take on a plane. Escorting is different. You can get away with a carry on bag containing a few essentials. Massage requires a lot more “stuff”. I can’t imagine parking somewhere in NYC, unloading everything, and getting it to my rental unit or hotel room very efficiently or safely. Plus city parking is an extra cost on top of pricey accommodations. I don’t want to change how I deliver my services to fit the city. It lowers the client experience. 4) NYC is expensive. Any way you look at it, different types of accommodation, different locations within the city, it’s all expensive. Anywhere in NYC is more than double or triple per night what I typically pay for AirBnBs in mid size cities, plus the parking. I either have to eat that extra cost (which is less motivating for me to visit) or charge more to offset my costs (which is less motivating for clients to hire me). 5) I mostly do incalls on the road. This way, I can see more clients per day. It takes lots of extra time and some extra hard cost to do outcalls. I can do fewer outcalls per day, which eats into my gross earnings and therefore my profitability. I still have to pay for accommodations regardless of how many or few outcalls I agree to fulfill. I could charge a higher outcall fee, I suppose, but it can’t be grossly out of proportion, and whatever that is would net me lower than the same time spent on incalls. I have to sleep somewhere at night. So I figure I should get something decent and arrange it to best suit my service delivery model and take as many incalls as possible. Do New Yorkers mostly want outcall service, or incall? How likely are you to book one or the other? How important is this aspect to your hiring decisions? 6) Say hypothetically demand for my services in NYC is high. Great! What a blessing. With increased demand, you might think I can just work more per day to offset the costs. Not really. I already work to capacity on these trips, meaning I allow just enough time for sleep, short rest and meal breaks, cleaning time, getting ready in the morning, etc. Optimism aside, I actually can’t work any more than I already do. Figure a full slate of 5-6 clients a day with a sample schedule of: (2) 120 min appointments, (2) 90 min appointments, (2) 60 min appointments, and at least 30 mins between each client. It varies of course, but that sample is 11.5 hrs of time a day should clients theoretically all book exactly 30 min gaps apart (which never happens). Assuming all of those are incalls and everyone shows up on time, by the end of the day, I have worked something between 12-16 hours and I’m exhausted. I can’t do any more. Emotionally I am drained, physically I am tired, and sexually I need to recharge. So…the answer isn’t to simply “work more” to recoup the extra costs of offering services in an expensive city like NYC. ___________________ All of the above points lead me to consider offering services outside the city. So far, I haven’t seen the point, but I want to know what clients actually think. Assuming I found suitable accommodations, I wouldn’t have to raise prices or eat the costs of big city rentals and I could still make myself reasonably available to the NYC market. One forum member suggested I stay near his area north of New York City proper, closer to Connecticut. Costs would be relatively lower and I could operate practically much the same way I do in other cities. I imagine some alternate locations outside the boroughs may be comparable, such as areas of New Jersey. Long Island I assume is too expensive, but I haven’t really checked. Maybe. My big question is: should I even bother? Realistically, would New Yorkers consider seeing a traveling provider close to - but outside of - the city proper? What are your limits? Blocks away? Neighborhoods away? Subway stops away? Within your borough? In a different borough? Cities near NYC? Minutes or hours of driving / rideshare? Outcall to your place only? Economic incentives and my own assumptions lead me to avoid places like NYC. I’m wondering if I am missing something. I appreciate all of you in and near the NYC metro area who have expressed interest in me in the past (you know who you are). Rest assured, you’re still on my list to reach out when the time comes, and I would love to make a NYC trip at some point. I’m just trying to make business sense of it.

Denver is on my list. It’s not too far for me. I’m looking at: Las Vegas-Salt Lake City-Colorado Springs-Albuquerque-Tucson and then back to San Diego. The biggest stretch is SLC to Colorado Springs, pushing my limits for driving all in one day. But then again I have family in CS, so I would probably take an extra day out of my schedule to rest and hang out there anyway. I considered Denver because of geography and city size, but my analysis tells me the market is more saturated there. I think I would do better in Colorado Springs, in what appears to be a relatively underserved market per capita compared to Denver. Who knows, I may do ok in Denver, but I tend to do my best business in underserved markets. Anyone really wanting to see me in Denver, PM me.

Thanks. I do put a lot of thought into business, and it’s served me well. I’ve learned to pivot too. When something isn’t working, I change. I would love to visit NYC, along with a few other larger east coast cities, for example Boston-NYC-Philadelphia-DC and then circle on back using my midsize city model; Raleigh, and back on through Tennessee to more of my usual places. Clients in NYC want to see me there, including some forum members. I haven’t worked out a viable approach just yet. I’ll post a separate topic for that discussion.

Regular laundry detergent works fine. I use coconut oil for massage, water based lube for toys, and silicone lube for sex (or coconut oil for sex). None of these stain. It comes right out in a normal wash cycle. People stain from other things like their hair and skin products. Think: spray tan, hair color, etc. Or from sex. All of these stains come out with a pre-wash bleach treatment.

This is why I don’t feel the need to charge differently based on client looks, age, fitness, etc: Last night…. Client: how do you get hard for unattractive men like me? Me: I’m a professional. Client: Good answer.

@TAMPAMUSCLEDAD I’m a masseur (and escort) based in San Diego. I travel to other US cities about 1/3 of the year, over the course of a few trips lasting 3-6 weeks each, sometimes a week or a few days for nearby cities in the southwest and west coast. You’re a masseur only. That means you need to travel with a table. No self respecting masseur will offer bed-only massages. It makes for a poor client experience and it’s tough on your body, not to mention it screams unprofessionalism. So, that means air travel is out. Any standard table will not fit the dimension limitations for checking a bag, and if the airline will take it, it’s pricey to check. Nevermind any other equipment or supplies such as a towel warmer or large quantities of oil, or all the linens you need. Oh and by the way your regular travel bag with clothes, toiletries and essentials. Then there’s ground transportation. Rideshares, shuttles, and taxis are expensive. Public transportation is incredibly inconvenient, slow, and unpleasant in most places (if available at all). Frankly, to do the traveling masseur correctly and profitably, air travel is simply impractical. You have to drive. Having a car saves you time, money, gives you space, convenience, flexibility, and reliability. Shop for groceries using your car whenever you need them rather than paying a premium to eat out. Spend money on cheap gas in many parts of the country. For me, almost anywhere is less expensive than my home city in CA. Airfare is not only more expensive, it takes loads of time getting to/from the airport, security, and buffer time, lines, waiting, and not to mention air traffic delays. At that point, you would have already made it to your destination just driving. Select your travel cities wisely. Determine these on several factors like overall metro area population, amount of relative competition / market saturation, demand for your skills and looks, geography, distance from your home city and/or distance from other cities on your circuit, time of year, special events, holidays, etc. and last but not least, existing client base in those cities. There is always some risk in visiting a new city. Even cities you’ve done well in before can be less profitable if you visit at the wrong time. For Austin, that’s roughly June-August but March-May is great. For Buffalo, the bad times are roughly October-April. Every city is different and it takes some trial and error. Canvassing cannot predict what you will make. It only frustrates clients and those who book ahead cancel and change plans last minute anyway. You can’t avoid the need to take educated, calculated risks. Boots on the ground, accommodations costs paid. Miles driven. There is no other way. Space your city dates to give yourself enough time to make decent money, but not too much time to run out of work. Clients lose interest if you’re there for too long. When you’re slow, spend less time in that city or skip it next time. I find a week is a good sweet spot; it gives clients a variety of day/time options to fit with their availability. Give yourself a full day between cities for driving. It’s not uncommon to drive for 4-8 hrs between cities. I shoot for around 6 hours assuming a 9am checkout and a 3pm check in, disregarding any time zone changes. Don’t take clients on your travel day. You need the rest. It gives you an opportunity to get groceries after you arrive, and a good couple of hours to set up, unrushed. Then unwind and get to be early for a good night of sleep. Any traffic delays or road closures will not matter because you’re not trying to rush into town to make an unrealistic 4:00pm client appointment on your first night. Don’t do that to yourself or your clients. Take the rest so you will be ready to start fresh the next morning, no stress, no rushing, no overpromising, or under delivering. Advertise travel prior to your arrival, but not too soon. A month is too much, in my experience. You spend way too much time fielding inquiries for times that you are not advertising for (because clients don’t read the ad or travel dates). Or they see you around for weeks and take you for granted or get bored and move on to the next new face. Or overthink booking you and never book. Or they can’t plan that far ahead. Or their plans change and they more frequently need to cancel or change their appointment with you. So many reasons why too much notice is a bad thing. Advertising only a day ahead is too little. Few people will see and respond to your ad that quickly. By that point you don’t have your first couple days booked up yet and you don’t want to waste precious work time (for which you’re spending a lot of overhead) sitting around waiting for clients to text. 1-2 weeks is the sweet spot IMHO. It’s enough time for your clients to see you before you arrive and waffle about reaching out, and they have enough notice to plan around their lives. Then there are the people who will not reach out until after you are in town, no matter how open or flexible their schedules are. They are jaded by canvassing masseurs flaking on them because the masseur decided not to make the trip. Also some clients have good old fashioned poor planning skills, impulsivity, or only find a time pop up short notice that he couldn’t have planned for if he wanted to based on his family or jobs or whatever. This is why you have to actually GO to a city, not just attempt to gauge interest from afar. Accommodations are tricky. You need to have the right combination of convenient location, [perceived] safe location, free/convenient parking, and level of quality to attract the clients you’re going for. Motel 6 on the outskirts of town won’t cut it. Neither will the Ritz in the center of downtown. That’s why I rent short term units, usually houses, sometimes other types. I can find the right balance of cost, convenience, and quality that way. Also: private dedicated laundry! Which you need if you’re soiling six clients worth of linens per day. Find what works for you. If it’s too expensive, skip that area or that city. Let the economics of the thing drive your decisions. At the end of the day, you need to make money. If you’re spending a dollar to make only a dollar back, that’s free labor you’re offering. You’re right. Overhead is high. It’s difficult to make a profit traveling. I make a profit by doing high volume, often 5-6 clients a day. I escort too, so that boosts my income and makes it more realistic. I might do 0-2 escort appointments per day, and 4-6 massages a day. That’s a LOT of work, typically spanning over 13-16 hrs a day. You can’t make this model work taking only a couple massage clients per day. Volume is where it’s at. Select the right cities, the right times, the right accommodations, and your clients will line up to see you. Trial and error. See what sticks. Do your research. Ask around. Book. Then hit the road!

☝This, fellas. This.

Robots are great for tasks, for automation, for repetition, and even some adaptive learning. Genuine emotional interplay, empathy, embracing “flaws”, soul-to-soul connection…these are the few things a robot can never replace or do better than people.

Everything is separate. Different logins, monthly fees, travel date settings, etc. I wouldn’t want them connected. I share slightly different content on each one, as the client base for each is different. Sometimes I might flag “available now” for massage but not for escorting, or visa-versa, for any number of reasons. You wouldn’t want escort clients posting reviews on your massage ad, or massage clients posting reviews on your escort ad. It’s a whole can of worms. Keeping them separate gives us more flexibility and keeps everything targeted appropriately, which I think is more important than the convenience of updating both at once.

@HockeyMan please enlighten us. What is your opinion of good/bad times to visit Boston, and market rates there?

I agree 100% with @marylander1940. You did the right thing. ^While this may be true of clients canceling their appointments last minute, this post is about a client trying to book another appointment once he was well again. The client unknowingly exposed the provider to Covid during the first appointment and told the provider about it after the fact - a responsible and decent thing to do. Why the provider would turn down more business by blocking the client beats me. It’s not like the client is permanently contagious. Maybe there was some other unrelated reason. It says more about the provider how he handled things. Time to find a more mature provider.

Report your experience on a provider specific thread here on CoM. Reputation matters. The pros won’t behave in such ways. The least he could do was cancel your appointment. Professionals and adults communicate. Amateurs and children block, ghost, or no-show.

Maybe propose a fee for multiple hours, overnight, or multi-day if the provider has no established rates for such arrangements. Best to ask first about it because these types of meets are not always advertised or frequently requested. He may have a rate structure, you might not know about it until you ask. I do. I don’t blast it out on my ads though or quote it in my responses to general rate inquiries. I would quote it when a client is specifically inquiring about something longer than two hours. Aside - I had a client request 2 1/2 hours a while ago. I thought that was funny. I charged him for two hours and he was generous with his tip. He was very happy. Low balling a one or two hour session below the market rate for your area is tacky and insulting. Perhaps less so when he is charging way more than standard for your area. There are always exceptions for his relative notoriety, popularity, status, and any unique or uncommon characteristics to justify an inflated rate. Keep those in mind. If you don’t want to pay his standard rate, it’s best for you and for him to move on gracefully. Spare your time and dignity, and his.

LOL maybe a poor choice of icon design. No, it means deep tissue massage. Nobody is going to fist you without having an important clarifying discussion about it with you beforehand! Before…hand. And that goes for escorts too.

I second @Jamie21’s post. Same sentiments, and I’ve seen the same clients. Pumps, orgasm without cum, cum without orgasm, difficultly reaching orgasm. You name it, I’ve seen it all. It makes no difference to me. A professional cares about you. Not your abilities, inabilities, looks, body, etc. We are here to fill a need, and we do. The pros meet you where you’re at. Don’t question what you need to bring to the table. Find the right guy (do your research) and the rest will fall into place! Good luck and have fun

Thank you @keroscenefire. Jacob is one of my client’s picks. I’ll be reaching out to him to see if he would be good in a group scenario.

Yes, gift cards do not work. Gift cards are “prepaid”. I’m not sure what other prepaid card you can buy at a retailer besides a gift card. A credit card you apply for at a financial institution by checking your credit - that’s what you need. Whether you do this process at a retailer, your bank, or applying online through your bank, it’s the same process. I’ve heard this from others trying to circumvent the system by listing another country when inputting their card information. I haven’t verified myself.

I think an escort is the perfect solution for @BlackSheep. The issue is finding the right fit. Hiring a man for companionship, sex, or both, is a way to get the experience he wants, on his own terms. Apps you have to “appeal” to the other party’s desires. You have to look a certain way and be into certain activities to attract the guy you want. If you are looking to get off in general, apps work well, but not if you’re very picky about who it’s with or what exactly you are doing. For example, the neighborhood guy you find may be eager to blow you, but that would only get a certain aspect of what you want. He won’t look like what you want, and he won’t fulfill any of the non-sexual connection aspects you want. He’s there to get you off and get out. You want more, no? Sounds to me like you have exacting standards for how you want your guy to look. Automatically, that eliminates a lot of the app-based options. You can’t be that picky on hookup apps and see any action. It’s hard enough to get someone to follow through, even when you settle for someone outside your criteria. The most universally desirable men won’t show up. Sometimes the unattractive men won’t show up either. It’s a crap shoot. You want someone with stakes. Someone invested in your interests, your satisfaction. Paying a guy gives him those stakes. It also gives you convenience - to choose who, what, and when you want. You can be as exacting and detailed as you wish. A professional won’t bat an eye. He will fulfill your needs on your own terms, doing only what you want him to do at the pace you feel most comfortable. He will also be ok stopping when you feel less comfortable. You can do low risk or no-risk physical activities if you wish. Or only use condoms if that makes you more comfortable giving or receiving oral sex. Take responsibility for your own sexual health (and mental health too). Peruse the men’s health topics here on CoM to gauge what your risk tolerance is and what to do to take responsibility for your own health, be it abstinence from certain activities, or any combination of risk reduction strategies like testing and prophylaxis. Most importantly, lay out all the things you want: emotionally, sexually, physically, and psychologically. Establish your boundaries for all of those items. Write them down. Figure out what will do it for you and seek to hire that guy or guys that fit the bill. Then do your research on ad websites like RentMen and others. Use the info you gather to do more research here on the forums to find out which of those men are most likely to fulfill what you want. Ask questions of anyone that has seen the provider. Then discuss any remaining questions with the provider. Confirm any items really important to you. Tell him specifically what you want to happen during your session, and ask if he is willing to provide it for his rate.

Prepaid Mastercards do not work. I tried. It needs to be a US based Mastercard credit card.