M4M Message Forums and Daddy's Reviews de-Linked

[Whitman]

New this morning?

 

My habit has been to come to the Message Forums by going to http://daddysreviews.com/, hitting the "I Agree" button on the TOS page, then choosing "Forums" (or whatever it used to say) to get here.

 

But this morning: No Such Choice in the bar at the upper left of the TOS page.

 

Nor do I see a place on the M4M Message Forums site that links to http://daddysreviews.com/.

 

I didn't notice any other comments on this. Thought I'd mention it.

[Guy Fawkes]

According to the Terms and Rules:

 

"RELATIONSHIP TO REVIEW SITE

The Message Center is provided as a public service to the Escorting Community and is operated independently of the Review Site. The views expressed in the Message Center are wholly those of the members who post them and do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, policies or procedures of the management."

 

The two sites were separated well over a decade ago, and there are those that don't respect that fact. Therefore the sites were delinked at this critical time.

 

H.R. 1865 was signed into law on 4/11/2018. Threads that contain new posts that are suspected to violate the new law are removed from public view to be reviewed. Contrary to what was posted earlier, only one thread was removed from the South America forum.

 

It is a sad day for "Freedom of Speech." The Terms and Rules will be updated to reflect the new law shortly.

 

https://www.companyofmen.org will take you to the message-forum main page.

Edited June 11, 2018 by Guy Fawkes

[Whitman]

@Guy Fawkes, thanks for your post to clarify the changes we're seeing this morning.

[Walker1]

Sad day for this country. What new laws await us in the future to strip even more freedoms away?

[BaronArtz]

I thought, for a moment, that the forums were deleted. Glad it is not the case.

[uwsman2]

So can somebody post the URL for direct access to the message forum?

[youngboldone]

I think it's m4m-forum.org

[liubit]

I think it's m4m-forum.org

Yes, that’s it.

[Kippy]

Next they will be after my lube!

 

Kipp

[+ stevenkesslar]

@Guy Fawkes, thanks for your post to clarify the changes we're seeing this morning.

 

Sad day for this country. What new laws await us in the future to strip even more freedoms away?

 

I'd like to take it much further than that and say THANK YOU Guy for sticking up for freedom of speech.

 

https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/23/17155110/craigslist-personal-ads-anti-sex-trafficking-bill

 

Anybody who runs a website is now vulnerable. Whether it's Craiglists personals or Twitter missed connections, it's understandable that many are making a decision to just go silent. That is a sad day for freedom of speech.

 

So every day we get to come to this online community is also a reason to celebrate and be grateful.

 

We haven't stopped being a country governed by the rule of law, judges, and juries. Lawyers can argue whatever they want, and politicians can pass misguided laws. But that doesn't mean rule of law or elections or common sense just goes away.

 

My hope is that we all double down on fierce devotion to freedom of speech. Part of the problem with Backpage is that while they used freedom of speech as a defense, it appears they actually were making millions of dollars in ads involving sex trafficking. I don't see ads like that here. So every day we are practicing and defending freedom of speech, I think the purpose of this forum speaks for itself.

 

My hope is that we also all double down on fierce devotion to fighting sex trafficking. Whether you call it FOSTA or SESTA, the key words in both bills are sex trafficking. The core goals are to stop enabling sex traffickers, and to empower the victims of sex trafficking. It's pretty clear that how we do that is going to get way more complicated for a while. Forget for a minute about "facilitating prostitution." We've now just entered a Twilight Zone were there are AI-based website filters that will try to figure out whether people talking about going to a floral shop or buying a used car online are actually sex traffickers in disguise. The dust hasn't even begun to settle. And at least one company - Recognant - is selling the idea that up to 20,000 words or phrases may be suspect. It's understandable to me why some people or websites might just prefer silence if there are now 20,000 unique ways to sound like a sex trafficker.

 

As a community of predominantly older Gay men, we know more than a little bit about being victims of oppression. We know what it's like to live in a country where the way you want to have consensual sex with other Gay adults is a crime. We know what it's like to live in a country where you can't meet the man of your dreams, fall in love, get married, and have the same legal protections as everyone else. We've been in the victim role a lot. So it's not hard to relate to the victims of sex trafficking. One thing I actually like about the current environment is that every American who goes online is getting an education, like it or not, about how this is a national problem that won't just go away.

 

I think the plain meanings of words and the subtext of words eventually speak for themselves. Ultimately, Backpage could not hide what they were doing. Ultimately, I think the best way to thank Guy is to be what we are: an online community of LGBTQ people of every political persuasion that is passionately for freedom of speech and passionately against sexual oppression and sexual exploitation, including sex trafficking. If Guy ever has to defend this website and this community in front of a judge or jury or the editorial board of The New York Times, I think that is our best defense.

 

Walker1 is right that if you don't defend your freedoms, you lose them.

 

For me today is a day to ground ourselves in being a community that respects each other, has nothing to hide, and has lots to be proud of. I'm drinking to that at Oliver's pool party this weekend. Actually, I may drink to it a lot.

 

Thank you, Guy, for guiding us wisely through this storm. I hope we will have many more parties and reasons to celebrate in the years to come.

Edited April 13, 2018 by stevenkesslar

[+ othermanc]

I just sent out a donation to daddy. Let's all help out in any way we can. Daddy needs us now.

[+ Keith30309]

I'd like to take it much further than that and say THANK YOU Guy for sticking up for freedom of speech.

 

https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/23/17155110/craigslist-personal-ads-anti-sex-trafficking-bill

 

Anybody who runs a website is now vulnerable. Whether it's Craiglists personals or Twitter missed connections, it's understandable that many are making a decision to just go silent. That is a sad day for freedom of speech.

 

So every day we get to come to this online community is also a reason to celebrate and be grateful.

 

We haven't stopped being a country governed by the rule of law, judges, and juries. Lawyers can argue whatever they want, and politicians can pass misguided laws. But that doesn't mean rule of law or elections or common sense just goes away.

 

My hope is that we all double down on fierce devotion to freedom of speech. Part of the problem with Backpage is that while they used freedom of speech as a defense, it appears they actually were making millions of dollars in ads involving sex trafficking. I don't see ads like that here. So every day we are practicing and defending freedom of speech, I think the purpose of this forum speaks for itself.

 

My hope is that we also all double down on fierce devotion to fighting sex trafficking. Whether you call it FOSTA or SESTA, the key words in both bills are sex trafficking. The core goals are to stop enabling sex traffickers, and to empower the victims of sex trafficking. It's pretty clear that how we do that is going to get way more complicated for a while. Forget for as minute about "facilitating prostitution." We've now just entered a Twilight Zone were there are AI-based website filters that will try to figure out whether people talking about going to a floral shop or buying a used car online are actually sex traffickers in disguise. The dust hasn't even begun to settle. And at least one company - Recognant - is selling the idea that up to 20,000 words or phrases may be suspect. It's understandable to me why some people or websites might just prefer silence if there are now 20,000 unique ways to sound like a sex trafficker.

 

As a community of predominantly older Gay men, we know more than a little bit about being victims of oppression. We know what it's like to live in a country where the way you want to have consensual sex with other Gay adults is a crime. We know what it's like to live in a country where you can't meet the man of your dreams, fall in love, get married, and have the same legal protections as everyone else. We've been in the victim role a lot. So it's not hard to relate to the victims of sex trafficking. One thing I actually like about the current environment is that every American who goes online is getting an education, like it or not, about how this is a national problem that won't just go away.

 

I think the plain meanings of words and the subtext of words eventually speak for themselves. Ultimately, Backpage could not hide what they were doing. Ultimately, I think the best way to thank Guy is to be what we are: an online community of LGBTQ people of every political persuasion that is passionately for freedom of speech and passionately against sexual oppression and sexual exploitation, including sex trafficking. If Guy ever has to defend this website and this community in front of a judge or jury or the editorial board of The New York Times, I think that is our best defense.

 

Walker1 is right that if you don't defend your freedoms, you lose them.

 

For me today is a day to ground ourselves in being a community that respects each other, has nothing to hide, and has lots to be proud of. I'm drinking to that at Oliver's pool party this weekend. Actually, I may drink to it a lot.

 

Thank you, Guy, for guiding us wisely through this storm. I hope we will have many more parties and reasons to celebrate in the years to come.

 

Yep:

Thank you Guy for giving us this sandbox to play in. And, as a side comment to Steve’s point around following the money, everyone here should recognize the fact that they’ve never had to stare at a screen full of banner ads. Someone has chosen to forgo a huge amount of money to sustain a platform where free speech is nurtured.

 

And I concur that there will be a big “ahah” moment once the practical challenges of implementing this are realized by the general populace. When your Aunt Mildred is planning her spring garden and Google blocks her search for “seeding young plump tomatoes” because she’s suspected of trafficking and placed on a watch list then she’ll likely not be too enthusiastic about being surveilled. (Especially after being groped by a Federal TSA agent and having her blood pressure medication from Canada seized.)

[+ pitman]

everyone here should recognize the fact that they’ve never had to stare at a screen full of banner ads. Someone has chosen to forgo a huge amount of money to sustain a platform where free speech is nurtured.

+1

[+ José Soplanucas]

I'd like to take it much further than that and say THANK YOU Guy for sticking up for freedom of speech.

 

http://imageslogotv-a.akamaihd.net//uri/mgid:file:http:shared:s3.amazonaws.com/articles.newnownext.com-production/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/giphy1-1482269468.gif

[+ stevenkesslar]

"Finally, I want to note that I have heard concerns that this legislation could be misused or abused to penalize websites that promote important health and safety information to survivors of sex trafficking, including about HIV prevention and treatment, and provide access to community and peer support services. This information is particularly critical to the victims of sex trafficking and others who face high rates of violence and exploitation, like people who use drugs, people of color, and LGBTQ people. I believe the use of this legislation to create any liability for this important work would be an impermissible misreading of the statutory language and legislative intent."

 

- Senator Charles Schumer, March 21, 2018, during floor debate on FOSTA/SESTA.

 

Schumer was the only US Senator to use the word Gay or LGBTQ in the course of 24 pages of floor speeches on the US Senate.

 

https://www.congress.gov/crec/2018/03/21/CREC-2018-03-21-pt1-PgS1849-8.pdf

 

As a member of two groups he mentioned - an LGBTQ man and an escort who counts on this forum for community and peer support, I sincerely hope we can take his commitment seriously.

Edited April 13, 2018 by stevenkesslar

[LivingnLA]

This community needs to do more than just congratulate or cheer Daddy on. He needs financial help too!

 

DONATE TO DADDY: http://daddysreviews.com/donate

[+ tassojunior]

Thanks for a fun ride, Daddy. It's been 17 months of bliss for myself, but I cannot bookmark this site for reasons of privacy (shared computer & phone), so I will say my goodbyes until the forum comes back to the daddys reviews link, if ever.

 

Thanks to all the readers, responders, and reply folks to my comments and rants and nonsense.

 

Sincerely, Smurof - smug more often

 

I don't bookmark. I just type in M4M Forums and it comes right up. After the 1st time M4M autocompletes to get me here.

[510guy]

I don't bookmark either, just typing in m4m-forum.org is not too big a deal.

[+ Tarte Gogo]

Thanks for a fun ride, Daddy. It's been 17 months of bliss for myself, but I cannot bookmark this site for reasons of privacy (shared computer & phone), so I will say my goodbyes until the forum comes back to the daddys reviews link, if ever.

I don’t understand this, you are ok to bookmark Daddy reviews, but not the forum?

[LivingnLA]

I don’t understand this, you are ok to bookmark Daddy reviews, but not the forum?

 

I may have misread his post, but I believe he was saying he couldn't bookmark anything because his devices were all shared or liable to be used by someone else. So, he was doing it from memory and had daddysreview.com memorized.

 

If I'm right, I wonder why he can't just memorize m4m-forum.org too? That's what I've done.

Edited April 13, 2018 by LivingnLA

[MisterMike]

So if the two are not linked- why do people get scolded and told to write a review on the other site if they post too much about their experience in the forum? #askingforafriend

[+ deej]

So if the two are not linked- why do people get scolded and told to write a review on the other site if they post too much about their experience in the forum? #askingforafriend

It’s pretty simple. Reviews are not allowed here and never have been. End of story.

[MisterMike]

It’s pretty simple. Reviews are not allowed here and never have been. End of story.

Well that was a fun, friendly, and informative response. Thanks.

[Cooper]

Well that was a fun, friendly, and informative response. Thanks.

 

@MisterMike: At the bottom of each page you’ll find a link to the “Terms & Rules”. In them you’ll find your answer:

 

“Please do not post reviews on the Message Center. The work product of the Web Site that sponsors this message center is reviews of interest to Gay and Bisexual men. The reviews are subjected to a much closer scrutiny than the Message Center postings. The determination of whether a post is a review may require a judgment call. The judgment is final and not subject to review.”

[MisterMike]

@MisterMike: At the bottom of each page you’ll find a link to the “Terms & Rules”. In them you’ll find your answer:

 

“Please do not post reviews on the Message Center. The work product of the Web Site that sponsors this message center is reviews of interest to Gay and Bisexual men. The reviews are subjected to a much closer scrutiny than the Message Center postings. The determination of whether a post is a review may require a judgment call. The judgment is final and not subject to review.”

Yeah- it also says "We will always strive to treat each person with dignity and respect and without favoritism" and I believe many guys here would have an opinion on how well you guys are doing on that front.