Appreciation of a nontipping society

[510guy]

So I recently came back from Japan where you don't tip...for anything. Well, at least not your standard things. Having been in the restaurant and on some tours I came to appreciate a society that actually looks down on tipping. At one restaurant a customer kept calling over a waitress and actually felt bad for her but yet each time she came over with a cheerful attitude, knowing full well she would not get any extra money for it.

 

From what I understand even if you try to tip they may refuse as it comes across as you are paying them for what is expected from them anyway.

 

US is completely opposite where you would be called out or looked down with scorn for not tipping.

 

How different things would be if we all shared the attitude of I will do my best and be pleasant because that is what is expected not to earn extra tip.

[rvwnsd]

So I recently came back from Japan where you don't tip...for anything. Well, at least not your standard things. Having been in the restaurant and on some tours I came to appreciate a society that actually looks down on tipping. At one restaurant a customer kept calling over a waitress and actually felt bad for her but yet each time she came over with a cheerful attitude, knowing full well she would not get any extra money for it.

 

From what I understand even if you try to tip they may refuse as it comes across as you are paying them for what is expected from them anyway.

 

US is completely opposite where you would be called out or looked down with scorn for not tipping.

 

How different things would be if we all shared the attitude of I will do my best and be pleasant because that is what is expected not to earn extra tip.

While that sounds good on the surface, servers/waiters/waitresses are usually paid less than minimum wage. They are paid less than minimum wage because they can receive tips. If we abandoned tipping, we would have to pay the servers, busmen, etc a higher wage to make up for the lost tips. Menu prices would likely increase accordingly. Not saying that would be a bad thing, but I am saying it is not quite as simple as "I will do my job extremely well because that is what is expected of me."

[510guy]

While that sounds good on the surface, servers/waiters/waitresses are usually paid less than minimum wage. They are paid less than minimum wage because they can receive tips. If we abandoned tipping, we would have to pay the servers, busmen, etc a higher wage to make up for the lost tips. Menu prices would likely increase accordingly. Not saying that would be a bad thing, but I am saying it is not quite as simple as "I will do my job extremely well because that is what is expected of me."

 

Yes, understand your point. I know they have tried it in some restaurants, basically tacking on a service fee. I know the mentality of America does not quite work that way. There is a Korean restaurant near me that is known for yelling at people for not tipping at least 10percent and saying that minimum.

[Bargara Leatherboy]

Having loved in non tipping countries most of my life, I see it as this. You either pay less up front and tip , or pay more up front and dont tip.

 

Either way it costs the same.

 

So we go to our local sushi train pay $45 for two, Thai $70 , macdonalds. $35 etc.

[Walker1]

Having loved in non tipping countries most of my life, I see it as this. You either pay less up front and tip , or pay more up front and dont tip.

 

Either way it costs the same.

 

So we go to our local sushi train pay $45 for two, Thai $70 , macdonalds. $35 etc.

 

McDonalds does not tip-so it costs 35 bucks for 2 at a mcDonalds-that must be a very expensive European nation?

[mike carey]

McDonalds does not tip-so it costs 35 bucks for 2 at a mcDonalds-that must be a very expensive European nation?

I think @westernsyd is talking in AUD, but to me $AU35 sounds a bit high. I typically have Maccas when I'm driving places and I would usually pay about $12 for a burger/wrap, chips and a large flat white [coffee] (which costs a bit more than having a coke). I haven't been to McDonalds in the US for a while, so I don't know how much their offerings have changed, but here they have gone a bit fancy (they still have the standard menu of course). Lately, I've been to several that have table service (after you order at the counter). Minimum wage is about $AU17 with loadings for holidays and late hours, and unlike some franchise operations here there has been no hint of owners cheating staff.

[LoveNDino]

My soon-to-be-college, Australian niece works part-time at a burger joint in a suburb of Melbourne, and she gets $AU 17, I believe.

[+ poolboy48220]

I've read about restaurants that have abolished tipping and have adjusted their prices and their server wages. I don't know if it's worked out for them.

[rvwnsd]

My soon-to-be-college, Australian niece works part-time at a burger joint in a suburb of Melbourne, and she gets $AU 17, I believe.

Which, as of 3/30/2018, equates to $13.07 USD, slightly less than the wage fast-food workers in this country have been demanding.

[marylander1940]

Which, as of 3/30/2018, equates to $13.07 USD, slightly less than the wage fast-food workers in this country have been demanding.

 

Yet it might go further in any Australian city that is not Sydney, I presume.

 

Big mac index:

 

https://www.economist.com/content/big-mac-index

[510guy]

I've read about restaurants that have abolished tipping and have adjusted their prices and their server wages. I don't know if it's worked out for them.

 

From some of the restaurant in the SF Bay Area it seems to be mixed results. Though they are upfront about it the sticker shock to see the prices on the menu is a turn off.

In San Francisco there is a 2.5percent health surcharge which is supposed to go to paying medical benefits for employees but a study found that employers were not putting it towards that but instead kept much of it.

[510guy]

Having loved in non tipping countries most of my life, I see it as this. You either pay less up front and tip , or pay more up front and dont tip.

 

Either way it costs the same.

 

So we go to our local sushi train pay $45 for two, Thai $70 , macdonalds. $35 etc.

 

Probably true. It's not so much paying less that intrigued me but more the self entitled attitude people have about expecting tips in America. How often do we hear about some millennial posting on FB about not receiving a tip.

[cany10011]

I grew up in hong kong and have lived in japan, but manhattan is home now. I agree, that tipping culture here is way overboard. I always feel compelled to tip 20% for any type of service. I always tip 5$ or more to uber/lyft drivers as well. I much prefer the japanese custom of non tipping. There are a few restaurants in manhattan that have nontipping policies. The only place am cheap with are chinese restaurants as they are accustomed to 10% tips.

[+ Axiom2001]

My late father taught us that tipping is reserved for those who have gone above and beyond the rendered service, so definitely leave a tip. He knew because he would shine shoes occasionally and would do a superb job. [i know because he would shine our shoes making them sparkle and gleam plus protect the leather.] I tip but at times dislike having to or expecting to do so when the service is poor.

 

Just yesterday, 3.29.18, it happened: I went to one of my favorite small cafes to which I have been going since its inception and ordered a late lunch. I precisely and clearly told the wait person what I desired. I waited longer than I'd anticipated, and the cafe was NOT crowded. When another person delivered my plate-- it had fries instead of the broccoli and a white bun instead of wheat. When I caught the attention of my wait person's working associate-- I had the plate returned. Within a reasonable time, my order was made correctly. Upon paying my bill-- I really, really, really hesitated to give a tip, for the initial service did not warrant this!

 

I abhor the mental psyche of the American (US) in terms of tipping. The mantra seems to be that it's an obligation regardless of the service given. With that-- if the service is what I've thought deserving of additional money-- I tip; if it is not, I really try hard to refrain from tipping, and if it's "Take Out"-- I try to avoid leaving a tip that's on the counter.

[KeepItReal]

My late father taught us that tipping is reserved for those who have gone above and beyond the rendered service, so definitely leave a tip. He knew because he would shine shoes occasionally and would do a superb job. [i know because he would shine our shoes making them sparkle and gleam plus protect the leather.] I tip but at times dislike having to or expecting to do so when the service is poor.

 

Just yesterday, 3.29.18, it happened: I went to one of my favorite small cafes to which I have been going since its inception and ordered a late lunch. I precisely and clearly told the wait person what I desired. I waited longer than I'd anticipated, and the cafe was NOT crowded. When another person delivered my plate-- it had fries instead of the broccoli and a white bun instead of wheat. When I caught the attention of my wait person's working associate-- I had the plate returned. Within a reasonable time, my order was made correctly. Upon paying my bill-- I really, really, really hesitated to give a tip, for the initial service did not warrant this!

 

I abhor the mental psyche of the American (US) in terms of tipping. The mantra seems to be that it's an obligation regardless of the service given. With that-- if the service is what I've thought deserving of additional money-- I tip; if it is not, I really try hard to refrain from tipping, and if it's "Take Out"-- I try to avoid leaving a tip that's on the counter.

Indeed, now that tipping is "expected" it does feel like it has lost its ability to encourage/reward good service...

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

So I recently came back from Japan where you don't tip...for anything. Well, at least not your standard things. Having been in the restaurant and on some tours I came to appreciate a society that actually looks down on tipping. At one restaurant a customer kept calling over a waitress and actually felt bad for her but yet each time she came over with a cheerful attitude, knowing full well she would not get any extra money for it.

 

From what I understand even if you try to tip they may refuse as it comes across as you are paying them for what is expected from them anyway.

 

US is completely opposite where you would be called out or looked down with scorn for not tipping.

 

How different things would be if we all shared the attitude of I will do my best and be pleasant because that is what is expected not to earn extra tip.

 

These are the fascinating things we uncover when we travel. It's why I love seeing the world: There's so much more out there than what we're accustomed to in the States.

 

Asian culture may not be entirely tip-friendly (yet), but when it comes to business, you often see people bring each other gifts when having first meetings. What might be considered a bribe here in America is very common throughout Asia.

[510guy]

These are the fascinating things we uncover when we travel. It's why I love seeing the world: There's so much more out there than what we're accustomed to in the States.

 

Asian culture may not be entirely tip-friendly (yet), but when it comes to business, you often see people bring each other gifts when having first meetings. What might be considered a bribe here in America is very common throughout Asia.

 

Absolutely! In Japan a canteloupe costs $60-$100 US . They are meant to be given as gifts. Sorry, not giving anyone a $100 piece of fruit.

 

I can see some fruit puns coming soon.

[bigvalboy]

I've always gifted my Japanese friends liquor. I've been told that bourbon or scotch is preferable.

[bigvalboy]

I always feel compelled to tip 20% for any type of service. I always tip 5$ or more to uber/lyft drivers as well..

 

I'm with you. 2o% sometimes more and friends hate it when I tip the uber driver $5, especiallyf I get a good driver that has gone out of his way to give me better service, I'll do it. Or as in the other night, after ordering uber X an uber Lux pulled up. It was a new Escalade. When I questioned the ride, he assured me that the charge would be the same as uberX, but that he saw my ride pop up and since he was a few blocks away, he decided to grab it. He got a tip...

[+ ArVaGuy]

I worked retail and waited tabes to pay my college tuition. Consequently, my base tip is 20 percent rather than the standard 15 percent. If the service is outstanding, I've tipped as much as 25 percent or higher. However, I've left as little as 10 percent if the service was horrible and made note to the management about the reason for such a low amount.

 

Years ago, before credit and debit cards came into use, it was customary to leave a penny heads down as a tip if the service was horrible. A rather blatant way to send a message if you ask me.

 

I know a couple of people who have made a career as waiters and bartenders in either high volume or higher end restaurants. When asked if they wanted to see tipping come to an end their answer was an emphatic "Hell No.". Both claim to have a significant income, I'm guessing six figures, and Lord only knows what they report in taxes.

[+ Avalon]

There is a nice restaurant across the street from me - it's been years since I've been there - but occasionally I'd go and place an order to go. And the server asked how much I wanted to tip to add to the bill. I did. But I thought if I ate there then of course a tip would be appropriate but not for take out.

 

There's a sandwich shop a couple of blocks away. I'd order to go. I'd pay by credit card and on the machine used to accept the card there were several percent choices of how much to tip.

 

A couple of years ago in my apartment parking lot someone broke the passenger side car window. I discovered it on a Sunday and called that day and two men came out on Monday. I paid by credit card. But the men didn't have a way to take it so I had to speak to the man back at the office and give him the info. He asked me how much I wanted to tip the two repairmen. I said $10 each.

[+ Pensant]

Everybody has their hands out, regardless of the merit. Fortunately, 90% of the time, the service warrants at least a 20% tip, especially if I’ve been comped on a drink!

[Rudynate]

My late father taught us that tipping is reserved for those who have gone above and beyond the rendered service, so definitely leave a tip. He knew because he would shine shoes occasionally and would do a superb job. [i know because he would shine our shoes making them sparkle and gleam plus protect the leather.] I tip but at times dislike having to or expecting to do so when the service is poor.

 

Just yesterday, 3.29.18, it happened: I went to one of my favorite small cafes to which I have been going since its inception and ordered a late lunch. I precisely and clearly told the wait person what I desired. I waited longer than I'd anticipated, and the cafe was NOT crowded. When another person delivered my plate-- it had fries instead of the broccoli and a white bun instead of wheat. When I caught the attention of my wait person's working associate-- I had the plate returned. Within a reasonable time, my order was made correctly. Upon paying my bill-- I really, really, really hesitated to give a tip, for the initial service did not warrant this!

 

I abhor the mental psyche of the American (US) in terms of tipping. The mantra seems to be that it's an obligation regardless of the service given. With that-- if the service is what I've thought deserving of additional money-- I tip; if it is not, I really try hard to refrain from tipping, and if it's "Take Out"-- I try to avoid leaving a tip that's on the counter.

 

But they made it right, by your own account within a reasonable amount of time. I had a wonderful experience a few months ago in a restaurant, that arose out of a mistake. I ordered fish and I asked to have the sauce on the side because was on a strict diet at the time. They brought my fish and it had the sauce on it, so I sent it back. Within just a few minutes, they brought out a freshly cooked piece of fish with no sauce, and they had carefully broken out the sides into separate little dishes so that I could keep everything separate and not get anything I didn't want. I hadn't told them that I was on a strict diet, but the server just knew what was needed and made sure it happened. I'm never a stingy tipper, but she really scored that night.

[mike carey]

But here they [McDonalds] have gone a bit fancy (they still have the standard menu of course).

When I was at the football yesterday, Maccas had ads on the perimeter hoardings of the ground for a Wagyu beef burger (limited time only, 'world first'). I mentioned 'a bit fancy'. Australian cattlemen have been increasingly raising Wagyu beef for both the export and domestic markets and it is becoming more mainstream. Had one on my drive home from Sydney, and it was rather good: substantial patty, better quality bread roll, lots of crispy bacon, lettuce and tomato and a savoury sauce. The meal deal with a large flat white was just short of $AU17, which is about what Westernsyd quoted in his earlier post of $35 for two people. The restaurant was absolutely packed (it's on the main highway south from Sydney) on this holiday Monday, so I suspect that they will have been making a profit even with the double time wages they have to pay on public holidays.

[+ sniper]

I worked retail and waited tabes to pay my college tuition. Consequently, my base tip is 20 percent rather than the standard 15 percent. If the service is outstanding, I've tipped as much as 25 percent or higher. However, I've left as little as 10 percent if the service was horrible and made note to the management about the reason for such a low amount.

 

Years ago, before credit and debit cards came into use, it was customary to leave a penny heads down as a tip if the service was horrible. A rather blatant way to send a message if you ask me.

 

I know a couple of people who have made a career as waiters and bartenders in either high volume or higher end restaurants. When asked if they wanted to see tipping come to an end their answer was an emphatic "Hell No.". Both claim to have a significant income, I'm guessing six figures, and Lord only knows what they report in taxes.

FYI the IRS can and does go after tipped employees they suspect of under-reporting, and they only have to use averages to prove their case. The burden of proof is on the employee to show they got what they reported. My brother was a high-end waiter for several years after college in the 80s and they came after him 5 years later.