Offended by vetting

[MikeBiDude]

Who has time for this

Really? How long do you think it takes?

[NathanJustice]

As an escort, I vet clients all the time, but keep that information to myself as I'm sure I would lose the potential business calling them by their real first/last name. I've found Facebook pages, businesses, etc. I do it to lessen the chance I'm meeting a 5-0, which when using rentmen I feel is mostly a danger for providers as clients can see my website, pictures, reviews, verified info, etc.

 

I think it's somewhat funny that the question of when do I start calling my provider by a name arose. It's funny because many clients forget to give me a name our entire relationship. Luckily, I'm in sales so it doesn't really matter to me if I have a real/fake name to call you anyways.

[rudog]

Well, it's like this... there is always the chance the John is crazy or a stalker or whatever so I can see why he was a little put off.

 

But listen boys, if you've ever paid a bill on line, responded to a post, run an ad, ordered something from a retailer the jig is up. Anyone with the interest and time can follow you all the way back to when you were a wee lad in mamas arms.

[instudiocity]

Did I really violate my fave escort's privacy? If I mistakenly drop his full name in private conversation, is that then a violation of his privacy? I think it would definitely be an error to ever let him find out why I know in such a careless manner, and I could see why, absent an explanation, he would assume that I had violated his privacy in order to learn such information. But I don't think it would be fair or accurate to say that I had actually violated his privacy. I've thought about revealing this to him just in the interest of full honesty and openness between us, and to avoid potential future snafus, but I'm afraid that he might overreact or jump to the wrong conclusion. I'd be interested in hearing from the other escorts on this.

You're arguing legalities but the question you should be asking is this, "Do I have an expectation of privacy concerning my name, my body, my work place, my phone, my home, my dresser top or my car?"

 

If someone discovers something about us, do they have the right to use that information - to discuss that private something?

 

You said in the next to last sentence the very motivation to NOT violate someone's privacy - I'm afraid that he might overreact or jump to the wrong conclusion. The very response you would have if someone discussed your private matters.

 

So the only thing holding you back is fear of the escorts reaction? That's pretty healthy behavior for one who argues he isn't violating some other person's privacy.

 

I share my home with a young man 25 years my junior. His friends react that it must be creepy living with a meddlesome old fart. His reaction as he repeats the story to me, "They don't understand that you're the best roommate I've ever had. You leave me alone. You leave my things alone. If you want to know something, you ask. If I don't want to tell you something, you respect my privacy."

 

I have just learned in my aged life that the things people share are far more important to me than the things they hide. If they want to hide something, then by all means, hide it. I don't want to know it.

Edited August 29, 2017 by instudiocity

[+ VictorPowers]

I agree

How would you feel if he mentioned your personal details?

 

Kevin Slater

I agree. I have been FB stalked and questioned about very personal details of my life while with an ON client. I have since obtained a work phone, email, and twitter. I'm sure it's possible to find my identity somewhere, but I'm not alone in wanting to remain private.

[+ quoththeraven]

What specifically did the OP do that violated the escort's privacy? Are you suggesting that he should not have done a phone number and image search?

He used a name for the escort that he learned from his research that is not associated with the escort persona. The only time to even mention it is much later in the relationship and only to suggest he might want to take more precautions (absent an unprompted revelation of the same information by the escort).

[+ DickyF]

I don't think it is as B&W as some of you claim. If you thought and were hoping that your real identity was hidden, would you want to know that it isn't?

It seems there could be one of two reactions (or both) if a client tells you how easy it is get your real name: "thanks for letting me know I'll fix that" or "how dare you invade my privacy."

If I can get your name then so can everyone else. Is it better to be in the dark? But the truth is I will go along with the alias.

BTW I store the phone # of escorts in my contacts. I then get a "friend recommendation" for that escort's FB page under his real name! This has happened at least 5 times. That is still pretty jarring to me. I use a burner phone now for escort biz.

I definitely like image-search to help determine if pix are stolen. There is a NYC escort who uses 10 yo pix of porn star Marco Blaze and has many new RM reviews claiming the pix are real and recent!

[MikeyGMin]

Image search? Phone number search? Who has time for this? I vet by reading reviews and communicating with the guy. Of course I ask him his name because I can't imagine calling him Hungmuscle69 in bed. If he lacks reviews or has poor communication and it doesn't feel right, I move on.

Everyone starts out with no reviews and scammers can be the best communicators because they know what you want to hear. I use due diligence and the advice of trusted board members to uncover obvious red flags. Which has caused me to pass a couple times even when the communication was good.

 

However, barring an obvious red flag, I go with my gut and have been rewarded this year with two of the best connections ever!

[KennF]

Again, I thinking this is spiraling way out of the reality of the circumstances.

 

You guys are making me out to be some stalker and online creep. I gotta tell you... I'm more than a little surprised.

 

I accept that he may have been startled that I did my research. But not ONCE have I given you any indication of who I am referring to and not ONCE have I discussed the actual personal details.

 

I can recall MANY of the people here advocating that you should use people who you can verify, come well reviewed, etc... But if you're advocating now that clients shouldn't DO that research, then I'm more confused than ever. You can't do due diligence without learning something.

 

Or, I guess, people are advocating that clients should lie and not be honest with the professional they are hiring.

 

 

 

Personally, I have ZERO expectation of privacy on this forum or any other online forum. If I give you my personal cell #, then I expect you can tell my name, home address, how long I've lived there, my date of birth, every traffic citation, state license (in every state), the approx. value of my home, how much I pay in taxes, who my friends are on Facebook, Twitter, SnapChat, Instagrams, whatever...

 

That doesn't make you a stalker and that isn't a violation of my privacy. A violation of my privacy is coming into my space, contacting my friends, discussing the business between the two of us, and betraying the trust I placed in you to respect my information.

 

That's my feelings on the situation. Maybe what I learned is that if you don't use your stage name (a name you expect people to call you), that you aren't mature enough to handle the industry. Because if the escort in question had used a reasonable name, then the rest would have been academic.

[LookingAround]

Again, I thinking this is spiraling way out of the reality of the circumstances.

 

You guys are making me out to be some stalker and online creep. I gotta tell you... I'm more than a little surprised.

 

I accept that he may have been startled that I did my research. But not ONCE have I given you any indication of who I am referring to and not ONCE have I discussed the actual personal details.

 

I can recall MANY of the people here advocating that you should use people who you can verify, come well reviewed, etc... But if you're advocating now that clients shouldn't DO that research, then I'm more confused than ever. You can't do due diligence without learning something.

 

Or, I guess, people are advocating that clients should lie and not be honest with the professional they are hiring.

 

 

 

Personally, I have ZERO expectation of privacy on this forum or any other online forum. If I give you my personal cell #, then I expect you can tell my name, home address, how long I've lived there, my date of birth, every traffic citation, state license (in every state), the approx. value of my home, how much I pay in taxes, who my friends are on Facebook, Twitter, SnapChat, Instagrams, whatever...

 

That doesn't make you a stalker and that isn't a violation of my privacy. A violation of my privacy is coming into my space, contacting my friends, discussing the business between the two of us, and betraying the trust I placed in you to respect my information.

 

That's my feelings on the situation. Maybe what I learned is that if you don't use your stage name (a name you expect people to call you), that you aren't mature enough to handle the industry. Because if the escort in question had used a reasonable name, then the rest would have been academic.

You're missing the bigger picture. It's called social skills. You're missing the key point.

[KennF]

You're missing the bigger picture. It's called social skills. You're missing the key point.

 

Nope. I acknowledged my social mistake early in the thread.

 

After that, however, things have been spiraling.

[instudiocity]

Again, I thinking this is spiraling way out of the reality of the circumstances.

There's nothing wrong with research, but when you start revealing what you've learned without pretext or context, it rises to the level of disturbing that person's privacy.

 

Personally, I'd equate it to asking, "So, when did you stop beating your wife?" It presupposes so much to call a person by a name they haven't disclosed to you.

 

There's nothing wrong being a blackhole containing lots of data, there is so much wrong with publishing that data you've snooped out.

 

What's that Twain saying,

“It's better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt”

Calling that escort by a never-disclosed name made you stupid in the sense that you didn't care about his feelings while you were probably seeking to measure his reaction. No, I don't see your behavior as innocent, caring or gentle. That's the violating his privacy.

Edited August 30, 2017 by instudiocity

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

Again, I thinking this is spiraling way out of the reality of the circumstances.

 

You guys are making me out to be some stalker and online creep. I gotta tell you... I'm more than a little surprised.

 

I accept that he may have been startled that I did my research. But not ONCE have I given you any indication of who I am referring to and not ONCE have I discussed the actual personal details.

 

I can recall MANY of the people here advocating that you should use people who you can verify, come well reviewed, etc... But if you're advocating now that clients shouldn't DO that research, then I'm more confused than ever. You can't do due diligence without learning something.

 

Or, I guess, people are advocating that clients should lie and not be honest with the professional they are hiring.

 

 

 

Personally, I have ZERO expectation of privacy on this forum or any other online forum. If I give you my personal cell #, then I expect you can tell my name, home address, how long I've lived there, my date of birth, every traffic citation, state license (in every state), the approx. value of my home, how much I pay in taxes, who my friends are on Facebook, Twitter, SnapChat, Instagrams, whatever...

 

That doesn't make you a stalker and that isn't a violation of my privacy. A violation of my privacy is coming into my space, contacting my friends, discussing the business between the two of us, and betraying the trust I placed in you to respect my information.

 

That's my feelings on the situation. Maybe what I learned is that if you don't use your stage name (a name you expect people to call you), that you aren't mature enough to handle the industry. Because if the escort in question had used a reasonable name, then the rest would have been academic.

 

I understand where you're coming from, but you yourself opened this can of worms. You came here and solicited for opinions... And you got them. Because you didn't get the response you wanted doesn't mean some of them are wrong

 

All said, you've been here long enough to know this is how things function around these parts. Opinions spiral into megathreads and it turns into That's Entertainment I, II and III.

Edited August 29, 2017 by Benjamin_Nicholas

[MikeyGMin]

Nope. I acknowledged my social mistake early in the thread.

 

After that, however, things have been spiraling.

I agree, but that happens here a lot. Try not to take it personally. Water off a duck's back and all that...

 

A tactical mistake. Lesson learned.

 

Many years ago when I was living in San Diego I was seeing an escort that went by Corey. (I've mentioned him here before. Great guy.) I liked him so much that I wanted to spend a weekend in Vegas with him. I needed his real name to buy the airline ticket so it was in my head. At the airport I accidentally called him by that name instead of Corey. He stopped dead, looked me in the eye, and said, "No one calls me that." Message received and understood.

 

Since then I've been very cautious. Real names invariably come out when you have a regular situation. All these years later, I still stop and ask very specifically what name he is most comfortable with me using. Extending him that courtesy has always resulted in, "Either name is fine" or "My real name is cool." With the notable exception of Corey that is. I never called him by his real name again!

[KennF]

@Benjamin_Nicholas I expected some of this. It's the stalker and creep comment that got under my skin. I'm over that already.

 

@instudiocity Didn't publish it, as you suggested. That is the type of spiraling I was referring to earlier.

 

Publishing would mean I came in here or elsewhere and publicly spread his personal information.

[LookingAround]

@Benjamin_Nicholas I expected some of this. It's the stalker and creep comment that got under my skin. I'm over that already.

 

@instudiocity Didn't publish it, as you suggested. That is the type of spiraling I was referring to earlier.

 

Publishing would mean I came in here or elsewhere and publicly spread his personal information.

You published your knowledge to him which is what is offensive.

 

What do we care who he is.

[+ nycman]

On a lighter note:

 

I've mentioned this before but I once learned the real name of

an escort I saw for several years. I much preferred his stage

name. It was 1,000 times sexier to me. Funny enough he was

clearly offended whenever I used his stage name instead of

his real name.

 

Back to the topic, I have accentially learned the real name of

several escorts over the years. I have never revealed that

knowledge to any of them and I would expect the same in return.

[GTMike]

I haven't read all of the comments in this thread in their entirety but get the major points and counterpoints and find them fascinating as maybe we're fishing in some different waters, haha (just an observation, not trying to boast or anything like that) because over the past 20 months or so, when i started exploring and hanging with escorts, out of the 10 i've met, when i politely introduced myself and then paused and gave them a friendly inquisitive look of "... and what should i call you? , 8 of them without hesitation gave me their real names.

 

One claimed that the Ad was actually his real name, (which i have no basis to verify or refute) and one i actually don't recall what he said because i wasn't gonna ever see him again and didn't care.

 

The others i know are their real names because after the fact i did do some "diligence" and found lots of corrobation but more importantly, i'm friendly (repeats, semi-regulars) with all of them in some sort of varying capacities but i stick to things that they have told me that relates to their "personal, private" life.

 

I will say though, i would hold off of any comments alluding to anything in their "real or personal life" until it flows naturally in conversation potentially. Like someone mentioned above i also did tell one gentlemen how i knew about him and how i find out his info but again it came naturally and he "freaked out" about it a bit as to how easy it was, but was incredible appreciative of not only that i told him but how and when i told him.

[instudiocity]

@instudiocity Didn't publish it, as you suggested. That is the type of spiraling I was referring to earlier.

 

Publishing would mean I came in here or elsewhere and publicly spread his personal information.

Definition of publish

1. transitive verb
   
2. 1a : to make generally known b : to make public announcement of
   

My intent was the definition in #2 - 1a. You made known to the one individual who would react as you predicted: "I'm afraid that he might overreact or jump to the wrong conclusion."

Then you came here seeking what? Forgiveness? Exhoneration? Understanding? Redefining your behavior?

 

Unfortunately, he jumped to the correct conclusion, you were behaving like as stalker behaves.

Edited August 30, 2017 by instudiocity

[Strafe13]

You're arguing legalities but the question you should be asking is this, "Do I have an expectation of privacy concerning my name, my body, my work place, my phone, my home, my dresser top or my car?"

 

If someone discovers something about us, do they have the right to use that information - to discuss that private something?

 

You said in the next to last sentence the very motivation to NOT violate someone's privacy - I'm afraid that he might overreact or jump to the wrong conclusion. The very response you would have if someone discussed your private matters.

 

So the only thing holding you back is fear of the escorts reaction? That's pretty healthy behavior for one who argues he isn't violating some other person's privacy.

 

I share my home with a young man 25 years my junior. His friends react that it must be creepy living with a meddlesome old fart. His reaction as he repeats the story to me, "They don't understand that you're the best roommate I've ever had. You leave me alone. You leave my things alone. If you want to know something, you ask. If I don't want to tell you something, you respect my privacy."

 

I have just learned in my aged life that the things people share are far more important to me than the things they hide. If they want to hide something, then by all means, hide it. I don't want to know it.

 

I get the feeling that you've mischaracterized what I wrote, although I'm unsure if that's purposeful, or because I may not have expressed myself as clearly as I should or could have.

 

First, I don't accept your framing of the initial question, and it strikes me as a bit disingenuous. (An expectation of privacy in a dresser top? Seriously?) It seems like you've framed it to presuppose the answer, rather than as a genuine attempt at engaging with people of good faith who may see things differently. I hope I've misinterpreted what you wrote, but you seem to imply that one violates another's privacy once he merely views, or becomes aware of, something that is out in the open, and/or that which another has taken no apparent steps to safeguard. If that's what you meant, then I could not disagree more.

 

Second, you also seem to conflate the "use" of sensitive information (which can mean many things) with simply discussing it (which can also mean many things). Yes, these two can sometimes overlap, but they're not always the same thing. Another fave escort of mine used his regular phone number on both his social media accounts and his professional ad. When Facebook suggested him to me as a friend, thereby revealing his real name and other info, I told him about it so he could protect himself. By discussing that with him, I thereby "used" that private information? Come on! Even the OP did not "use" the escort's real name in the negative way that you seemed to imply. Despite performing due diligence in researching the previously unknown escort to see if he was real or a legitimate provider, the OP never meant to even learn the guy's real name, and he only later said it to the escort inadvertently during conversation. I certainly understood why the escort initially felt uncomfortable, and may even have thought that the OP violated his privacy, since, absent an explanation, that's a reasonable assumption. But just because you feel like someone invaded your privacy, that doesn't mean that he or she actually did.

 

There's nothing legalistic about it, unless the meanings of words and phrases don't matter anymore. As a matter of common sense and experience, to invade someone's privacy necessarily means that one intentionally chooses to seek out sensitive information about another that he knows the target would prefer to keep private, and it can also entail revealing said information to others for whom he knows the target would not want to learn such sensitive matters. The inadvertent learning of someone's private information does not equate to violating that person's privacy. Intentionally doing so, or intentionally revealing that information to others does. Intent means everything.

 

As in the first example I gave, I never intended to learn my escort's real name, nor had I even known or realized that his ID was on the dresser. It was only when I instinctively turned my head towards his vibrating phone that I saw the ID right next to it. I looked in that direction for 1 or 2 seconds at the most. I don't see how anyone can say that I invaded his privacy in that scenario, if that's what you meant. If you meant that my hypothetical telling the escort that I know his last name is the privacy violation, then I'm also perplexed. He obviously knows his own name, so it's not like I'm revealing classified information or anything. I understand that he could be startled to say the least, or that it could be considered a breach of protocol or unwritten rules of the biz. By the overreaction to which I alluded was not, as you seemed to assume, the obvious proof of a privacy violation. I was fearful that I would word things inartfully, or that the tenor of the conversation would change so quickly that I'd be unable to explain that I had learned his name innocently, and not because I searched his belongings or otherwise did something to invade his privacy.

 

To be clear, I have no burning desire to share with this escort that I know his last name. My concern was/is, amplified by reading about the OP's mistake, that I might inadvertently reveal that during conversation. I was openly musing whether I should say something in advance, under a controlled setting, rather than try to undo an awkward snafu that might unnecessarily frighten the escort. He doesn't seem like the type to frighten easily or jump to conclusions, and I've been seeing him for well over a year now, so it's probably much ado about nothing. I was just hoping for an escort's perspective, that's all.

[instudiocity]

I get the feeling that you've mischaracterized what I wrote, although I'm unsure if that's purposeful, or because I may not have expressed myself as clearly as I should or could have.

My point is simple... just because you know a thing, you're not required to put it to use. The black hole theory of data storage, if you will.

[Aaron_Bauder]

If I was texting a stranger I'd never met, and they started calling be by a name which I had not given them, I would be momentarily/temporarily taken aback. And I don't just mean regarding escorting. Until anyone gives me their name, it seems quite socially awkward to just start dropping their name as if we've met before no matter how I know it.

 

For example, a lot of us young gay guys have a very big social media footprint. I've hooked up with guys who are pretty well-known through social media, Instagram-fame et cetera. Obviously, they know that information is out there: they're psuedo-public figures. However, I've never ever let them know that I know any more about them than they've decided to disclose to me one-on-one, unless I've noted "Oh yeah, I've actually followed you on Instagram for years." To just start dropping knowledge about them ("How was your trip to Europe you took last month? Your cousin's wedding in Napa looked really fun. Is your best friend Kyle single?") without disclaimer or prompting in our very first conversation ever? Awkard, and doubly so if the conversation is not face-to-face.

 

If someone is using an alias and hasn't given a name yet, that's probably not a random choice. Escorting is, after all, still illegal -- however unjust and ridiculous it is. So I assume everyone involved, client or escort, wants a level of privacy about that which they have not disclosed until trust is built and otherwise noted, or until specific disclosures are asked for.

Edited September 1, 2017 by Aaron_Bauder

[Mocha]

Some things are a matter of PUBLIC RECORD. Lots of stuff is public record. A phone number is one of them. I see names on my caller ID everytime the phone rings.

 

I had one client find my Facebook page, which he told me. I wasn't offended. Matter of fact, it seemed to just have made him more eager to send me my fee before I even got there. But...he didn't tell me that until in person.

 

I think the issue here was the timing. OP said "during their back and forth". It sounds like this was thru email or text. If the name was bought up then, it would have just been a bit out of place and awkward for that point of the meeting.

 

Yeah, @KennF could have not bought it up...but how would the world be a better place? It wouldn't. And if the escort didn't call him back, all the hell. Atleast @KennF knows now how it feels to be flaked on for trivial reasons...and perhaps when others can sympathize, maybe the world can be a better place.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Mocha

[Strafe13]

My point is simple... just because you know a thing, you're not required to put it to use. The black hole theory of data storage, if you will.

 

I get the simplicity of your point. I just don't know what you mean by "put it to use." Actually, I know how you're using that phrase, but it just seems nonsensical in this context. Putting information "to use," sounds like one has taken the info and purposefully utilized it in some tangible fashion, like if you learned an account number and then used it to go shopping. Or, keeping in line with the OP's and my example, if you learned someone's real name, and used it to infiltrate their private lives by showing up at their homes, or finding and introducing yourself to their friends, family, or colleagues. But inadvertently referring to someone by their real name, in a private setting with no risk of exposing them to the public or to others in a compromising way, does not seem to comport with a reasonable, ordinary, common sense usage of the phrase "put it to use," at least within the context of examples provided by me and the OP. It's especially a reach to say that inadvertently calling someone by their real name in a private setting = putting the thing you know *to use* and that this therefore = violating that person's privacy. That's a stretch worthy of Mr. Fantastic or Plastic Man, IMHO.

[Cannon]

I would echo what @Kevin Slater said. I understand that you meant no harm but if you had done this to me, I would be startled by it. Just as you have a personal life to protect, so does the companion. Even though you only disclosed that you knew his real name, if he is a bright and discerning companion, he logically is going to wonder what else you have researched. He may wonder if you have been watching or following him, if you are a stalker etc... Remember, at this point you are a stranger to him. If someone discloses to you that they know more about you than they wanted you to know, it can feel ominous. If he didn't have a normal nickname, then I agree with the others who recommend just asking the companion what he would like to be called. I would just chalk this up to a lesson learned for future encounters.