It Had To Happen Eventually

[+ Eric Hassan]

I remember being very close to my Dad when I was a little kid. He was my hero. He served in the army, he was in the diplomatic field, he was a great businessman. He was so accomplished. As I grew up and I came out, we kinda lost that connection. I could have tried harder, so could he. I remember my dad walking in on me and the boy next door while we were playing with each other. He never asked, he never even created a space for me to volunteer more info. It was kinda upon me to have the courage to talk about sex, orientation, safety, etc. I did...with my uncle Carlos, but not with dad. Uncle Carlos was gay, but he was able to talk about sex with me, my sister, and my straight brother - separately and wonderfully thoughtful conversations. I remember growing from a kid, to a youth, to a young adult and marveling at my uncle's wisdom to be both coach, mentor, father figure, friend. Maybe it was easier for him bc I was ultimately not his son. Or maybe it was bc he had no children that he could do this so well. Bless uncle Carlos. May he rest in peace.

 

Ok, @BasketBaller, so why the hell did I just share all that? Will you be asking the twins about the pack of condoms? I envy you the opportunity to raise children and evolve as their parent. Thanks for sharing your beautiful though wistful moment.

 

You're on a roll with these awesome posts, True.

 

@BasketBaller it's amazing and wonderful that you're able to be so close and involved in your sons' lives. My father was gone long before I even knew who he was and I didn't grow up with a father or any male role models that I could speak with. I got a book about puberty from my mom when I was about 12, and that was all. I had to figure out a lot for myself. Not having a dad/father figure is a big missing in my life and probably the only thing in my life that I wish had been different.

[+ Gar1eth]

@Gar1eth - I am impressed that you used the term "dick" (albeit in censored format) instead of tallywacker. Go, Gman!

 

Ahh but QTR, I was reliving my pre-teen self in that post. At that point in time I didn't know the sublime word tallywacker.

 

Gman

[+ quoththeraven]

Ahh but QTR, I was reliving my pre-teen self in that post. At that point in time I didn't know the sublime word tallywacker.

 

Gman

 

*facepalm*

[+ azdr0710]

The two of them sometimes speak in unison, and they said, "Da-ad!" in chorus.

 

Late in the evening the less talkative twin came to me and said that he and his girlfriend hadn't done anything sexual, but if it did happen he wanted to know if he should tell me. I said that was up to him, certainly if he wanted to he should, but as long as he felt okay with what he was doing I trusted him to be careful and respectful of his girlfriend. He just nodded and left.

 

http://cardsgalore.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/p-1425-bright-colours_fathers-day-15.png

[dlee02]

I have a few days alone with my son at his apartment coming up. I'm going to come out to him then. Thank you for all your gentle advice and points of view. I'm sorry if I highjacked this thread which was supposed to be about the OLYMPICS...I think!

 

Now..... How about that table tennis?

 

[uSER=12167]@Glennnn[/uSER] did you ever have that conversation with ur son? You might have posted about it elsewhere but I missed it.

[+ glennnn]

[uSER=12167]@Glennnn[/uSER] did you ever have that conversation with ur son? You might have posted about it elsewhere but I missed it.

It's going down this weekend I hope. I will report. Thanks for your support!

[dlee02]

Growing up part time in Asia and the US, I got some interesting and different introductions to sex...

 

I remember very vividly I was nine and we were on a choir trip overseas. We were hosted by a local family with 5-6 boys to a room. I remember lying in the dark and one of the boys said I heard sex is like "planting rice" you stick your thing in her hole... (Rice is first sprouted and you "stick" the rice stalk into muddy water one by one)

 

I'm very jealous of the relationship you have with your boys [uSER=6759][uSER=6759]@BasketBaller[/uSER][/uSER]. My dad is a typical stoic Asian dad, never showed any emotion (other than disapproval) or affection. I know he loves me but he just does express it in a way I understand. We don't have much of a relationship to speak of even now.

 

I knew at a pretty young age I was more attracted to the male body. I swam competitively since I was seven and it was always such a treat to oogle at the older boys on the team in the locker room.

 

I think I was about 11 or so when an older boy I had a crush on left his underwear in the locker room and I took it home and hid it in my desk drawer (thus began my life long underwear fetish!). Somehow my dad found it and connected the dots... He was furious and tried to "beat it out of me".

 

Unfortunately, I think I've had more "beatings" than "talks" about sex...

[dlee02]

It's going down this weekend I hope. I will report. Thanks for your support!

Keep us posted!

[+ quoththeraven]

I think I was about 11 or so when an older boy I had a crush on left his underwear in the locker room and I took it home and hid it in my desk drawer (thus began my life long underwear fetish!). Somehow my dad found it and connected the dots... He was furious and tried to "beat it out of me".

 

Unfortunately, I think I've had more "beatings" than "talks" about sex...

 

I am so sorry. There are many great things about Asian culture, but by and large attitudes toward same-sex attraction isn't one of them.

[+ purplekow]

Basketballer you mentioned that the quiet one came to you and told you that he had not had sex. That the more outgoing one did not leads me to think that he may be a bit ahead of his brother.

As to coming out to them signifying your trust in them, I do not see it that way. Eventually, when you feel they are prepared and open to discussion you should discuss it, but your primary responsibility, which you seem to be handling exceptionally, is to be their father. They are not your peer at this time and so your trust in them does not need to entail a sexual history. If you were having sex with a woman would you come home and say that you just banged your girlfriend. I think not.

 

So, when you are ready, I am sure you will deal with this in a thoughtful and considerate manner. My guess is, they will not be shocked but the confirmation may take a bit of time to settle in. I think I have offered this in the past, but if so I will reiterate, at some point your love for their mother needs to be reinforced, because to my mind, that would be the biggest question of all for them: Was your marriage to our mom a sham. Even though they may know the answer, I think they will need for you to address it. My guess is, this will be the most emotional part of the conversation.

 

Best of comfort with this conversation. If the timing is right, I would bet you and your sons will be closer than ever after that conversation.

[+ purplekow]

Basketballer you mentioned that the quiet one came to you and told you that he had not had sex. That the more outgoing one did not leads me to think that he may be a bit ahead of his brother.

As to coming out to them signifying your trust in them, I do not see it that way. Eventually, when you feel they are prepared and open to discussion you should discuss it, but your primary responsibility, which you seem to be handling exceptionally, is to be their father. They are not your peer at this time and so your trust in them does not need to entail a sexual history. If you were having sex with a woman would you come home and say that you just banged your girlfriend. I think not.

 

So, when you are ready, I am sure you will deal with this in a thoughtful and considerate manner. My guess is, they will not be shocked but the confirmation may take a bit of time to settle in. I think I have offered this in the past, but if so I will reiterate, at some point your love for their mother needs to be reinforced, because to my mind, that would be the biggest question of all for them: Was your marriage to our mom a sham. Even though they may know the answer, I think they will need for you to address it. My guess is, this will be the most emotional part of the conversation.

 

Best of comfort with this conversation. If the timing is right, I would bet you and your sons will be closer than ever after that conversation.

 

As an aside, is that you in your avatar? Is so, I fucking hate you because my avatar is me and as far as I know, I do not have abdominal muscles.

[+ poolboy48220]

Afterwards my older brothers both asked me if I'd had the talk, and when I said I had, they said to ask them anything else I wanted to know, because if I asked dad anything, he'd take me through the whole thing again.

 

That's hilarious. If my dad HAD given me the talk, I can imagine that was his approach. Makes me wish I'd had older brothers, or brothers at all. I've got three sisters; one older, one younger, and one much younger.

 

Most of what I knew about sex came from a book for teenage girls that I found at a store.

The parents DID spring for the "Life Cycle Library", a four-volume set of sex ed books for teens. A few years ago, my younger sister got me a spiral-bound notebook made from the covers and pages of one of those volumes.

[+ quoththeraven]

My mother gave me a basic sex ed book when I was ten or eleven. I don't remember it covering masturbation (which I'd already discovered for myself completely by accident), and it did not acknowledge same-sex attraction (it was the mid-60s), but it described how babies were made, complete with erections and penetration. Then there was the time-honored filmstrip shown to girls in the sixth grade about menstruation and human reproduction. (The boys saw a different filmstrip.)

 

As a teenager, I read my parents' copy of The Joy of Sex. I also walked in on them once in the middle of sex. (I was excited that I could hear a radio station hundreds of miles away and didn't think to knock.) Afterward, we all pretended that didn't happen.

 

Then there was learning by doing: making out toward the end of high school with a boyfriend of a few months with whom I foolishly broke up when I left for college; going almost directly from first base to home plate as a sophomore in college. 40 years later, I'm still learning.

[BasketBaller]

Basketballer you mentioned that the quiet one came to you and told you that he had not had sex. That the more outgoing one did not leads me to think that he may be a bit ahead of his brother. .

 

Yes, that occurred to me too. I almost wonder if the one telling me he hadn't had sex was because he knows his brother has. Still, while I hope he feels free to talk to me about it, it's up to him, and I trust him to be careful.

�

I think I have offered this in the past, but if so I will reiterate, at some point your love for their mother needs to be reinforced, because to my mind, that would be the biggest question of all for them: Was your marriage to our mom a sham. Even though they may know the answer, I think they will need for you to address it. My guess is, this will be the most emotional part of the conversation.

 

I agree 100%, both that this will matter to them and that I'll need to address it. The boys were 6 and 8 when they lost their mom, and their memories of her include a year of illness and suffering. The twins� don't have much memory of what the family life was like before her diagnosis, and idealize it somewhat. they love hearing about her from me, their older brother, the rest of the family. I know that whatever form "the talk" takes I want to make clear that the marriage was real and nothing about their mom, or the loss of her, has led me to this.

 

The other �part that may get emotional is my choice to focus on them. I think they feel bad I haven't had much of a social life, and that it's their fault. Each of them has, in some little way, let me know they worry about how I'll be when they're all away at college, and I've made light of it. So in a strange way, my coming out might be a relief to them. What I'm not sure how to handle is the fact that while it's been intermittent, I have had a sex life for several years, through hiring escorts and a few internet hookups. As far as I know, they think I've been celibate since their mom's death.

 

As an aside, is that you in your avatar? Is so, I fucking hate you because my avatar is me and as far as I know, I do not have abdominal muscles.

 

I wish! No, I played basketball in high school and college and did have abs back then, but while I play for fun now, and am in decent shape, alas, time has taken its toll. The avatar is pretty much my ideal guy, tall, lean smooth, broad-shouldered.

[BasketBaller]

My mother sent gave me a basic sex ed book when I was ten or eleven...., and it did not acknowledge same-sex attraction.

 

Ironically, that's also about the only aspect of sex my dad omitted in his talk, and he didn't leave much out. Looking back, the funniest thing I remember is him talking about wet dreams and including the tidbit that semen smells like Clorox. I've, ahem, learned that not everybody's does.

[+ Gar1eth]

In about 1982 I was invited to a birthday party for a girl who was a friend. I'll call her Kelly. Kelly lived off campus with Melissa and Terri. Melissa and Terri were throwing the party. The 'brief' for the party was to bring something to embarrass Kelly ( we were in college-give us a break).

 

I don't remember what I brought. But someone gave Kelly a cartoon picture book about sex. The book was by a European author. I remember being told the book was used for Sex Education for children in Europe. We found the book hilarious but were all shocked by how graphic the pictures were. We would never have shown this book to American children.

 

I found this video on the web which may be from the book I saw back in the 1980's.

 

[MEDIA=vimeo]27847934[/MEDIA]

 

Gman

[+ quoththeraven]

Ironically, that's also about the only aspect of sex my dad omitted in his talk, and he didn't leave much out. Looking back, the funniest thing I remember is him talking about wet dreams and including the tidbit that semen smells like Clorox. I've, ahem, learned that not everybody's does.

 

Not an analogy that would occur to me. My college boyfriend's room smelled like dirty socks after we had sex. (It didn't before, at least not noticeably.)

[+ quoththeraven]

In about 1982 I was invited to a birthday party for a girl who was a friend. I'll call her Kelly. Kelly lived off campus with Melissa and Terri. Melissa and Terri were throwing the party. The 'brief' for the party was to bring something to embarrass Kelly ( we were in college-give us a break).

 

I don't remember what I brought. But someone gave Kelly a cartoon picture book about sex. The book was by a European author. I remember being told the book was used for Sex Education for children in Europe. We found the book hilarious but were all shocked by how graphic the pictures were. We would never have shown this book to American children.

 

I found this video on the web which may be from the book I saw back in the 1980's.

 

[MEDIA=vimeo]27847934[/MEDIA]

 

Gman

 

I suspect you are right in thinking that this is the book you saw. That it would be considered unsuitable for American children sums up what is wrong with American sex education and attitudes toward sex.

[BasketBaller]

Not an analogy that would occur to me. My college boyfriend's room smelled like dirty socks after we had sex. (It didn't before, at least not noticeably.)

 

I now know from experience that the smell of sex can differ, I assume because of the participants' body chemistry. (And my semen does smell rather like Clorox, so maybe it's a genetic thing!)

[+ quoththeraven]

I now know from experience that the smell of sex can differ, I assume because of the participants' body chemistry. (And my semen does smell rather like Clorox, so maybe it's a genetic thing!)

 

I haven't experienced the dirty socks smell since I last saw mu college boyfriend, so that was probably unique to him.

[BasketBaller]

I haven't experienced the dirty socks smell since I last saw mu college boyfriend, so that was probably unique to him.

 

The boys' rooms have occasionally smelled like dirty socks but I'm pretty sure it was because there were dirty socks there!

[+ Gar1eth]

I suspect you are right in thinking that this is the book you saw. That it would be considered unsuitable for American children sums up what is wrong with American sex education and attitudes toward sex.

 

Well it would have definitely been considered unsuitable for American children at the time. Remember we were in college, and we found the book quite 'risqué'-especially considering the book's intended audience. There was a lot of laughing and giggling at the pictures. Depending on the age of the child, I'd have some trouble reading the book to them now.

 

This reminds me. When I was in college, my parents lived next door to a knock-out attractive couple. I'm not saying the wife was Playboy Bunny material. But she was quite attractive. Her name was Marsha-ok not really. I've given her an alias. I wasn't attracted to her-I was more interested in her hubby, Stan (another alias). He was of Italian ancestry, slicked back hair, strong/attractive Mediterranean face. He seemed in fairly good shape. The only problems being he was straight, I had a sneaking suspicion I was gay but tried not to think about it, and Stan was very short, say 5'5".

 

Marsha and I used to talk occasionally. I was telling her about this party and the book. She told me that when her son Gary who was 5 or 6 then had been a year or two younger had asked where babies come from. I think she was fairly free with her body. I'm sure she didn't show Gary anything but probably explained about there being an opening where babies came from. She told me that after that one day she was getting dressed, Gary came into the room. I don't know if this was a common occurrence or an accident. Gary saw his mother's private area, noticed the pubic hair, and started excitedly saying, "A baby's coming out!!!"

 

 

Gman

[+ quoththeraven]

That's a cute story, @Gar1eth.

 

The thing is, do we want to be the morals police or do we want children to have accurate information about sex? I vote for accurate information, including information about the psychology of sex as well as the mechanics. It's probably more critical to their future development and happiness than most of the classes they take and quickly forget.

[+ FreshFluff]

The thing is, do we want to be the morals police or do we want children to have accurate information about sex? I vote for accurate information, including information about the psychology of sex as well as the mechanics.

 

Does accurate information mean require depicting a female pelvis that looks like a freak pomegranate or a full frontal view of a smiling baby being born?

 

In my sixth grade class, sex ed meant the boys and girls went into separate Q&A sessions. That probably took the onus off the teachers, who could say they were just answering questions. I asked what "coming" meant because my book mentioned it. The teacher said it meant orgasm but turned red when I asked what that meant. The class sophisticate, a wealthy Asian girl, finally lost her patience. "It's the part where they go 'huh huh HUH HUH.'"

[instudiocity]

on the floor by the dresser was a box of 12 condoms, unopened.

I believe that is the most important word in the OP's kick-off post. Most disconcerting might have been a Gross of Condoms down to it's last survivor... How to divide 11 into 2?