It Had To Happen Eventually

[BasketBaller]

It doesn't necessarily mean they're using them yet, but I took some laundry into my 17 year-old twins' room just now (unexpected day off so of course, catching up on chores at home). Sitting on the floor by the dresser was a box of 12 condoms, unopened. Both boys have serious girlfriends and we've had frank talks about sex and the need to be careful since they were old enough to understand.

 

Maybe they bought them "just in case," or out of curiosity, but I realize that it also could mean one or both of them is sexually active. (I have no idea where they'd have done anything but they're smart kids, if they want to I'm sure they'd figure it out.)

 

I'm fine with this, really, it shows they're being responsible even if it's just a potential need. But I am a little wistful about my boys growing up, and thinking about them in college next year. One is applying to the Naval Academy so he won't be far if he gets in, but still, what an adjustment it's going to be. I posted once before that I've really never lived alone, I went from living with my parents and siblings to college roommates, to my wife and then with her and my children, and then with the boys. Well, who knows, maybe I'll love it! But it'll take some getting used to.

[mike carey]

Yes, @BasketBaller, it will take some getting used to. The first time I bought condoms it was out of curiousity, and I ended up trying them out by myself, sort of 'how does wanking feel with one of these'. Don't read too much into it, and if they are sexually active be thankful that they are taking precautions!

[+ bashful]

we've had frank talks about sex

 

You're a good father. My father and I never talked about sex, and he lived to be 90.

[+ azdr0710]

or maybe they just want to look cool when their friends come over

 

http://www.fortworth-stockyards.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/11223602_1628128527426969_8912896127869483382_n-230x230.jpg

[+ Truereview]

I remember being very close to my Dad when I was a little kid. He was my hero. He served in the army, he was in the diplomatic field, he was a great businessman. He was so accomplished. As I grew up and I came out, we kinda lost that connection. I could have tried harder, so could he. I remember my dad walking in on me and the boy next door while we were playing with each other. He never asked, he never even created a space for me to volunteer more info. It was kinda upon me to have the courage to talk about sex, orientation, safety, etc. I did...with my uncle Carlos, but not with dad. Uncle Carlos was gay, but he was able to talk about sex with me, my sister, and my straight brother - separately and wonderfully thoughtful conversations. I remember growing from a kid, to a youth, to a young adult and marveling at my uncle's wisdom to be both coach, mentor, father figure, friend. Maybe it was easier for him bc I was ultimately not his son. Or maybe it was bc he had no children that he could do this so well. Bless uncle Carlos. May he rest in peace.

 

Ok, @BasketBaller, so why the hell did I just share all that? Will you be asking the twins about the pack of condoms? I envy you the opportunity to raise children and evolve as their parent. Thanks for sharing your beautiful though wistful moment.

[BasketBaller]

Ok, @BasketBaller, so why the hell did I just share all that? Will you be asking the twins about the pack of condoms? I envy you the opportunity to raise children and evolve as their parent. Thanks for sharing your beautiful though wistful moment.

 

I'm not sure yet. They'll know I brought in the laundry, but the box wasn't completely obvious. I might not have noticed if I didn't recognize the brand since I've hired guys who use it! But we have always talked pretty openly, so I might tell them I saw it in case they do want to tell me anything. I'll tread lightly no matter what.

 

Your Uncle Carlos sounds great.

[mike carey]

Kudos for saying that @Truereview, my parents separated when I was 8 and both have now died, my relationship with my father (with whom I did not live) was such that sexuality didn't come up, and my mother was so traumatised when my sister came out that I said nothing to her (I planned to wait till there was a relationship I needed to explain). Coming out is such a complex issue, and we need to accept that whatever our ways of coping, others will need to take a different path.

[+ Truereview]

I'm not sure yet. They'll know I brought in the laundry, but the box wasn't completely obvious. I might not have noticed if I didn't recognize the brand since I've hired guys who use it! But we have always talked pretty openly, so I might tell them I saw it in case they do want to tell me anything. I'll tread lightly no matter what.

 

Your Uncle Carlos sounds great.

My 2 cents: it is far better to tread lightly than not to tread at all.

 

PS - I love the voice you bring to this Forum - that of a loving (young) father.

PPS- thanks for sharing your experience, @mike carey !

[happyguy2]

Yes, @BasketBaller, it will take some getting used to. The first time I bought condoms it was out of curiousity, and I ended up trying them out by myself, sort of 'how does wanking feel with one of these'. Don't read too much into it, and if they are sexually active be thankful that they are taking precautions!

It was the very same for me!

[BasketBaller]

Well, I took the plunge. This time of year with practices, meetings, etc., it's not always the case that we can all eat dinner together, but last night we could. Talked about the day, classes, and so on. Then I took a deep breath and mentioned that I'd noticed they had a box of condoms and wondered if there was anything they wanted talk about. The two of them sometimes speak in unison, and they said, "Da-ad!" in chorus. It turns out they've had them since last spring. Both of them play on the school's basketball (duh) team, and apparently it's a running joke that anyone on the team in a relationship gets given a box of condoms on his birthday by the team. They go to an all-boys school, as did I, and this sounds like typical behavior-- those without girlfriends (or, I suppose, boyfriends) teasing and encouraging those who do. So they actually have two boxes of them, although I don't know if the other one is unopened, they might have done what several have mentioned and tried them to see how they feel.

 

With twins there is usually one who does the talking and a quieter one, and that's the case with mine. Late in the evening the less talkative twin came to me and said that he and his girlfriend hadn't done anything sexual, but if it did happen he wanted to know if he should tell me. I said that was up to him, certainly if he wanted to he should, but as long as he felt okay with what he was doing I trusted him to be careful and respectful of his girlfriend. He just nodded and left.

 

My own sexual journey makes me want to be as supportive as possible of their choices. At their age, I was a "totally straight" kid dating girls and I don't think anyone would have suspected I was fighting an attraction to other guys. So while I think my boys are straight, I know better than to assume anything. But they've been raised in a less homophobic time, with a gay uncle, gay friends, and the teacher I posted about earlier this year, so I hope, and believe, that if any of them were gay they wouldn't feel the need to hide it.

[Moondance]

With twins there is usually one who does the talking and a quieter one, and that's the case with mine. Late in the evening the less talkative twin came to me and said that he and his girlfriend hadn't done anything sexual, but if it did happen he wanted to know if he should tell me....

Sounds to me like your son just affirmed his trust in you and you responded by affirming yours in him. Mighty nice.

[+ Truereview]

My own sexual journey makes me want to be as supportive as possible of their choices. At their age, I was a "totally straight" kid dating girls and I don't think anyone would have suspected I was fighting an attraction to other guys. So while I think my boys are straight, I know better than to assume anything. But they've been raised in a less homophobic time, with a gay uncle, gay friends, and the teacher I posted about earlier this year, so I hope, and believe, that if any of them were gay they wouldn't feel the need to hide it.

 

Sounds to me like your son just affirmed his trust in you and you responded by affirming yours in him. Mighty nice.

Pink Alert: Oh, oh...I've been triggered again! Read patiently and kindly as I dig in....

 

@BasketBaller, again, I can't emphasize enough how cool I find it that you are sharing this with us. I feel a bit of envy, a bit of vicarious living, and I can't help but cheer for you and the twins. With that said, I want to "like" Moondance's quote about trust, but I can't yet bc trust affirmation to me happens when critical cards are on the table.

 

I respect your coming out journey, you and only you get to decide when to tell your twins about your orientation or feelings/attraction for men. I think you've said it before that you believe they already suspect. Here is the thing, I wonder if your quieter twin actually was using this conversation about the condoms box and having sex or not with his girlfriend to give you an (oblique) opening to open yourself up to him? Teens are tricky that way - I was that way . Ultimately, you are a far better judge of your teen than I. I just felt I should ask you. Here is the other thing that crosses my mind: is it really authentic & trustworthy to be talking about sex with your teens where you are holding the cards about your own orientation? I would say it depends on where the three of you are on your path, but I wonder if it is a question worth asking yourself in every trust-building interaction. It is tricky bc you have to balance two roles: parent and a sexual human being. Where do both things connect? Last, I also wonder if the twins will ever look back on these conversations and wonder: man, dad didn't trust us when he was asking us to trust him. Yikes! My guess/hope is that they won't think that, but I can't help but think about it.

 

Let me stress this, I'm musing all this stuff to myself bc to me this forum is often a great sounding board. Also bc I can be the brooding type. Take me with a big grain of salt. My objective here is not to convince you to do something. My objective is to add a different angle on what you've expressed. If you don't want these thoughts, put me in my place and tell me to take a hike or, easier, ignore them. I just want the best for you guys.

Always tuned in to your journey and thank you for your posts, -TR

[BasketBaller]

I wonder if your quieter twin actually was using this conversation about the condoms box and having sex or not with his girlfriend to give you an (oblique) opening to open yourself up to him? Teens are tricky that way - I was that way . Ultimately, you are a far better judge of your teen than I. I just felt I should ask you. Here is the other thing that crosses my mind: is it really authentic & trustworthy to be talking about sex with your teens where you are holding the cards about your own orientation? I would say it depends on where the three of you are on your path, but I wonder if it is a question worth asking yourself in every trust-building interaction. It is tricky bc you have to balance two roles: parent and a sexual human being. Where do both things connect? Last, I also wonder if the twins will ever look back on these conversations and wonder: man, dad didn't trust us when he was asking us to trust him. Yikes! My guess/hope is that they won't think that, but I can't help but think about it.

 

@Truereview Those very things have occurred to me and it's something I have to deal with eventually. I am fairly committed to coming out to them, although my thought has been to wait until they're in college since I don't intend to pursue a gay "social life" before then. But I am indeed concerned about the issue of trust, since we seem to be able to talk about anything-- but this.

 

The reason I suspect they at least wonder about it is that they, and their older brother, used to urge me to date, even suggesting women I should ask out! But about two years ago they abruptly stopped doing that, for no reason I could think of. So when we have that talk, that's something I'll ask them, did they drop the issue because they sensed my interests lay elsewhere?

 

Thank you for these thoughts, I value them. Maybe this is a strange place for me to have brought all of this up, but your reaction, and others', have been very good for me to hear.

[+ Truereview]

[uSER=12213]Maybe this is a strange place for me to have brought all of this up, but your reaction, and others', have been very good for me to hear.[/uSER]

[uSER=12213]

Well, buddy, from experience, I can tell ya one thing: there are worse places to bring this or other topics up. You have no idea how many times the casual banter in this forum has saved my hide - or at least prepared it for a bruisin'.

Thanks for understanding my intent. Keep on trucking![/user]

[+ Gar1eth]

or maybe they just want to look cool when their friends come over

 

http://www.fortworth-stockyards.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/11223602_1628128527426969_8912896127869483382_n-230x230.jpg

 

Now @azdr0710, fool us once....-I was going to say that in my high school if anyone had seen a ring like that, they would have assumed it was a dip can ring. I looked up dip can ring on the net and came up with the same picture.

 

 

 

Gman

[Nvr2Thick]

Now @azdr0710, fool us once....-I was going to say that in my high school if anyone had seen a ring like that, they would have assumed it was a dip can ring. I looked up dip can ring on the net and came up with the same picture.

 

 

 

Gman

http://i.imgur.com/uaRyO.jpg

[+ VeryHappyCustomer]

BasketBaller, the world has changed since we were 17. They are not naive. Be honest with your sons. They are men.

[+ Truereview]

Now @azdr0710, fool us once....-I was going to say that in my high school if anyone had seen a ring like that, they would have assumed it was a dip can ring. I looked up dip can ring on the net and came up with the same picture.

 

 

 

Gman

I just hope it is truth in advertising cuz I sure hope it is that wide!

 

http://forgifs.com/gallery/d/191060-1/Open_wide.gif?

Open wide, baby!

[+ poolboy48220]

My Dad dropped me off at an evening sex ed program they had at our school when I was in 11 years old or so. Definitely an eye-opener - the ideas I had about sex up to that point were VERY weird. On the drive home, he uncomfortably asked me "so, do you have any questions?" Embarrassed, I answered "no" - and that was the last time I discussed sex with my father.

[BasketBaller]

My Dad dropped me off at an evening sex ed program they had at our school when I was in 11 years old or so. Definitely an eye-opener - the ideas I had about sex up to that point were VERY weird. On the drive home, he uncomfortably asked me "so, do you have any questions?" Embarrassed, I answered "no" - and that was the last time I discussed sex with my father.

 

Ha! My dad, who was and is a straight shooter, sat me down at 10 and gave me the "facts of life" talk. He covered everything from intercourse and conception to erections and masturbation to wet dreams and orgasms, and he was VERY explicit, so even though I was embarrassed it was also a bit of a bonding moment. Afterwards my older brothers both asked me if I'd had the talk, and when I said I had, they said to ask them anything else I wanted to know, because if I asked dad anything, he'd take me through the whole thing again.

[+ FreshFluff]

BasketBaller, As you know better than I do, senior year is a particularly a stressful time for your twins as they complete college applications and take/retake college entrance exams. There's something to be said for saving big conversations for the spring when all these issues are settled and they have mental bandwidth available.

 

My parents never had a sex ed talk with me. A kid at camp kept talking about recreational sex, so one time I asked my dad what he thought about it. He said that sex is a difficult thing that should not be taken lightly. At that time, he was right.

 

Most of what I knew about sex came from a book for teenage girls that I found at a store.

[BasketBaller]

BasketBaller, As you know better than I do, senior year is a particularly a stressful time for your twins as they complete college applications and take/retake college entrance exams. There's something to be said for saving big conversations for the spring when all these issues are settled and they have mental bandwidth available.

 

That is exactly my reasoning. I'm not going to be dating men this year, so I think I can wait while they deal with everything on their plates. I'm more and more thinking next summer when their brother is home, I don't want to do it without all three.

 

Having said that, if any of them asks me about it, I won't lie.

[wisconsinguy]

@Truereview Those very things have occurred to me and it's something I have to deal with eventually. I am fairly committed to coming out to them, although my thought has been to wait until they're in college since I don't intend to pursue a gay "social life" before then. But I am indeed concerned about the issue of trust, since we seem to be able to talk about anything-- but this.

 

The reason I suspect they at least wonder about it is that they, and their older brother, used to urge me to date, even suggesting women I should ask out! But about two years ago they abruptly stopped doing that, for no reason I could think of. So when we have that talk, that's something I'll ask them, did they drop the issue because they sensed my interests lay elsewhere?

 

Thank you for these thoughts, I value them. Maybe this is a strange place for me to have brought all of this up, but your reaction, and others', have been very good for me to hear.

I would feel fortunate if I were you. It sounds as if your boys have that innate trust in you that most parents wish that had with their children. I have five children. Both my ex wife, who is also my best friend, have always felt there was no topic or issue we could not talk about or approach. I chuckled when you said you found the right moment to bring of the condom thing. I have always said those moments require timing. I have come to believe that being gay has made me a more tolerant person in many other avenues. My children believe, and their mother and take some of the credit, that the choices we make in relationships, as long as they hurt no one, are consensual in nature, are part of being a psychologically happy person. I really have only been seeing someone for about three years. I travel to see this person once a month so. My youngest child, a son was staying with me for a short time. His curiosity got the best of him, and when I was getting ready to leave one weekend, he just asked me if I were gay. It was a little bit of a surprise, but the timing was right for both of us. It turned out to be great. We talked about different topics. It was a good thing in that he knows a little more about me. I'm sure when the time comes, your boys will likely feel even closer to you! The forum has provided me with so many pieces of info, and help in sooo many ways WG2

[+ Gar1eth]

It seems to me that I figured out fertilization early on-maybe from an elementary school unit on plant fertilization with pollen. But I was surprisingly ignorant of the differences in form between males and females. And this was after having taken my very first shower at the age of 6 with my 11 year old sister (she was there to 'protect' me in case I didn't like/feared the water coming down onto me). I stood behind her. Maybe she had on a bathing suit. But I don't remember that either.

 

In any case I can remember asking a veterinarian when I was in 5th grade whether our new (female) dog could get 'fertilized' through a fence. Again I knew sperm/egg theory. I just wasn't sure of the actual modus operandi. In my defense, I assumed the male dog had to be close to the female. I didn't assume the male sprayed seed on eggs.

 

So then either in 6th or 7th grade, still ignorant of sex differences, my Dad gave me a paperback book made for teenagers to read. He handed the book to me, told me to read it, and to ask him if I had any questions. I don't remember ever asking my Dad any questions. But at some point after reading the book, my 19 year old brother took me out to a golf driving range. The subject of sex came up. I remember saying something like the idea of sticking my d--k into a woman seemed weird/gross*. My brother said something about he'd heard you were supposed to move 'it' back and forth, and that it was supposed to feel good.

 

That's the last major sex talk I remember having with family until I sent an email announcing I was gay in 2012.

 

Gman

 

*Interestingly enough I still have the same feelings on that subject at my current age of 55 that I had when I was 11, 12, or 13.

[+ quoththeraven]

@Gar1eth - I am impressed that you used the term "dick" (albeit in censored format) instead of tallywacker. Go, Gman!