Tops who need to prove themselves thru topping...

[+ Tygerscent]

What, (in your opinion), is the worth/value of a top who needs to prove their "self", (as a top), thru controlling their bottom(s),~?

Are they really just messy and insecure bttms at heartwood can't give up conteol~?

~ True or false~? (Not just asking your personal opinion but, asking each to go beyond their own opinion and reply with the reality of the situation if one can muster that up~).

 

Tyger~

971.400.2633

tygerkink@yahoo.com

 

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[mike carey]

I don't think they are insecure bottoms but I suspect that they are just plain insecure. They may well be tops but just not confident in their status. I can't judge them whichever way they swing. Oh, and btw, I am a bottom, well I think I am, but no-one seems to want to challenge what I think I am. People only challenge those who claim to be tops.

[+ Tygerscent]

I don't think they are insecure bottoms but I suspect that they are just plain insecure. They may well be tops but just not confident in their status. I can't judge them whichever way they swing. Oh, and btw, I am a bottom, well I think I am, but no-one seems to want to challenge what I think I am. People only challenge those who claim to be tops.

Let me kiss you... That alone will be our mutual loving point that we live forward from~ neither top nor bottom will matter really~"We" together is what matters... Connection on our mutual levels is really the point~? Be free to be whoever you are together with another intimate~

Tyger~

971.400.2633

tygerkink@yahoo.com

 

http://www.daddysreviews.com/venue/usa/oregon/tyger_portland

 

http://rentmen.com/AAATygerscentXXX

 

http://m.men4rentnow.com/profile.cfm?CID=114061

[mike carey]

Let me kiss you... That alone will be our mutual loving point that we live forward from~ neither top nor bottom will matter really~"We" together is what matters... Connection on our mutual levels is really the point~? Be free to be whoever you are together with another intimate~

Tyger, you can kiss me whenever you want!! As to neither top nor bottom, that is something we would work out without the influence of the outside world!

[tyro]

SO good to see you back, Tyger.

T

[+ purplekow]

I believe people who are controllers are more fearful than insecure. The difference I think is that people who are insecure have doubts about their power over circumstance (control over the outside world) and those who are fearful have doubts about what circumstance are going to do to them (the outside world having power over them)

[+ glennnn]

This is what I have learned at Daddy's school.

 

1. A bottom is a bottom, but might top someone out of love and passion.

2. A top is a top and only tops.

3. A versatile is a bottom (see number 1)

 

I am a bottom, but would do almost anything to please you.

[rvwnsd]

What, (in your opinion), is the worth/value of a top who needs to prove their "self", (as a top), thru controlling their bottom(s),~?

Are they really just messy and insecure bttms at heartwood can't give up conteol~?

~ True or false~? (Not just asking your personal opinion but, asking each to go beyond their own opinion and reply with the reality of the situation if one can muster that up~).

 

I don't think they are insecure bottoms but I suspect that they are just plain insecure. They may well be tops but just not confident in their status. I can't judge them whichever way they swing. Oh, and btw, I am a bottom, well I think I am, but no-one seems to want to challenge what I think I am. People only challenge those who claim to be tops.

 

Good question, Tyger and good answer, Mike. I agree with you. I don't think the tops who have to prove themselves are insecure bottoms. I think they are too insecure to be bottoms. I've complimented several tops on their "skills." Almost all of them have told me that they learned to be a good top by bottoming.

 

Regarding the worth/value of a top who has to be controlling? In my opinion, that type of behavior is worthless.

[+ poolboy48220]

I believe people who are controllers are more fearful than insecure. The difference I think is that people who are insecure have doubts about their power over circumstance (control over the outside world) and those who are fearful have doubts about what circumstance are going to do to them (the outside world having power over them)

Well, there's Claire in Modern Family; when her family complained to her "Why do you always have to be right, Mom?", she replied "In this family, what other choice do I have?". Applicable to my sister and her family, can't understand why she hates it when I compare her to Claire :-)

[nycguy]

What, (in your opinion), is the worth/value of a top who needs to prove their "self", (as a top), thru controlling their bottom(s),~?

 

Are they really just messy and insecure bttms

 

Your post is making my head spin a bit. Are you saying that there are tops who control bottoms that do not need to prove their "self" and some tops who control only to prove their "self" or that all controlling tops are only trying to prove their "self" and are really just "messy and insecure bottoms?" Your post can be read as slamming both tops and bottoms.

 

Why can't it just be the dynamic between one who likes to control and one who likes to be controlled? Go to any hookup site and read the profiles and you will see how prevalent that dynamic is. Are only truly versatile flip floppers not psychologically messed up?

[Juan Vancouver]

This is what I have learned at Daddy's school.

 

1. A bottom is a bottom, but might top someone out of love and passion.

2. A top is a top and only tops.

3. A versatile is a bottom (see number 1)

 

Glenn,

 

Having attended to Daddy's school myself I can say with absolutely certainty that you didn't learn this here.

This is a sad self-hating mantra mostly used in the States, where most men force themselves into little boxes.

 

I can assure you, there's a huge wide world out there where men love having sex. ALL sex.

 

The people that are best at topping have put in their 10,000 hours bottoming and vice versa.

And the really good lovers will never let themselves be confined to a restrictive, reductive label.

 

I urge you to study this. Understand it, and then say you learned this at Daddys. Not the other way.

 

Wishing you all an incredible Thanksgiving!

[+ glennnn]

Oh, I'm so sorry you took my comments as negative. #1 I was making a joke that bottoms like to bottom and tops like to top. #2 I am a bottom and I love it when a top takes care of me sexually. Not that I am less, because "I take it up the ass", but because he wants to please me, love me and make me feel good, and I want to surrender and give him whatever , mouth, hand, ass, he needs from me. #3 If I had a lover, which I sadly don't, I would be happy to top him and give him every neuron of love I had to give to make him feel cherished.

 

I have learned sooo much on this forum and it has all been about love, kindness, courage and brotherhood. I am soo sorry I upset you. I am very happy and content.

[+ glennnn]

I am so upset that I gave the impression that my connection with the friends of Daddy has been less than golden. I was a 72 yo, closeted semi-virgin when I first found you guys. Since then, I have started a course of psychotherapy, conducted touching, meaningful, life-changing conversations with you as individuals, asked so many stupid questions usually posted on the wrong forum with out checking to see if there was a former thread and often poorly inserted in the discussion, and received nothing but support and kindness in return. I didn't know that gay guys could be anything but the clever, silly stereotypes we see in the media until I met you all.

 

What have I learned here: Gay love is tender, affectionate, passionate, hot, Legal, NATURAL, sustaining, helpful, undeniable, important, surprising and faithful. We are tops, bottoms, suckers, fuckers, kissers, jackers, huggers, trios, gang bangers, young, old, philosophical and most of all SURVIVORS!!!

 

I will be coming out to my family before the end of the year and hope to meet many of you when I attend the Palm Springs Weekend. Does it matter if I fuck or get fucked, suck or get sucked, kiss or get kissed? NO I think I might be dead today, if I hadn't stumbled on your amazing cyber club house. Thank you a billion times over, and believe that I am ok, I love myself, I love you and I am not alone anymore.

[+ purplekow]

Glennn a big hug from me and I swear I was cutting onions as I read your post. You know Thanks giving dinner and all. Lots of onions in the stuffing.

[Juan Vancouver]

Glenn,

 

You didn't upset me in the least, don't worry. I posted what I posted because we as social beings that we are have a tendency to give credence and propagate the cultural mores whether they are right or not. That's what has happened historically every time a group gets marginalized and dehumanized. We become impervious to the effect what we say and what we joke about has in our and other people's psyche.

 

I am all for joking and don't have anything that is sacred or should be off limits. In this case, when you prefaced your joke saying that this is what you had learned here, then I had to open my big mouth. But don't worry, we are all here to keep each other honest. =)

 

I am so proud of you. It must be so exciting to go through this process. Most of us went through it such a long time ago that I can't help but feeling a bit excited and jealous thinking of you discovering a whole new world in which there is a loving place for you to be yourself.

 

I will be rooting for you when you come out to your family. I am rooting for you when you are discovering the joys of intimacy. But whenever you repeat an old and tired cliche that invites everyone to conform to a norm and box themselves into a tiny role, I will be here, like an older, more experienced brother to slap you on the wrist and tell you "No, child, that's not true, now go and happily suck some dick."

 

Now... go and suck some dick. =)

[geminibear]

Drumstix & fishstix

[Decatur Guy]

I'm not sure I entirely understand the original question and what it's getting at, so if my reply is off-base, that's why. Anyway, a few thoughts on the subject:

 

In my experiences, I haven't noticed a definitive correlation between someone being a good top and their history with sexual positions.

 

I have been with versatile guys who were indeed really good at topping me. But I have also been with guys who only like to top, and they were also very good. And I've been with some 100% tops who also really liked to be overtly domineering and verbal about the fuck, and it was still real good.

 

Conversely, I've been with some versatile guys who really didn't deliver when it came time to top. And I've been with some "100% tops" who needed to up their game and seemed they would benefit from some time on the receiving end of things to improve their technique and attitude.

 

For me, I think I definitely became a better top after some bottoming experience. I have a fucking style as a top that's definitely informed by my bottom experiences, but I don't think that's a blanket rule for everyone.

 

My two "go-to" escorts that I see several times a year each for years now are both tops and have no interest in bottoming at all. Believe me, I've tried to get them to flip! Neither is exceptionally controlling and definitely don't do the demeaning-the-bottom routine, but both usually like to call the shots during a fuck. And they deliver an exceptional experience every time, without the benefit of any personal bottoming experience. They have no notion of the sensations and feelings I have as a bottom, and it doesn't seem to matter at all. It's a great fuck.

 

After all, there are plenty of straight guys who only fuck pussy -- and who have zero idea or interest in what taking a dick would be like and really have no way of knowing -- and yet the ladies say they are great sex partners. I don't see why it has to necessarily be different for two men. Generally speaking, I suppose experience on both sides of a male/male fuck would be for the better, but I don't think it's a blanket rule for every man. I think some tops can only top and some bottoms can only bottom and still provide an enjoyable sexual experience for the other man.

[Nvr2Thick]

What, (in your opinion), is the worth/value of a top who needs to prove their "self", (as a top), thru controlling their bottom(s),~?

Are they really just messy and insecure bttms at heartwood can't give up conteol~?

~ True or false~? (Not just asking your personal opinion but, asking each to go beyond their own opinion and reply with the reality of the situation if one can muster that up~).

 

How would you know that he needs to prove himself?

 

How would you identify that the top's motivation behind controlling his bottom is a need to prove himself? Does he announce that the reason for his actions is his need to prove himself, or do we have to assume that if a top takes control it is because he needs to prove himself because it's what you believe to be a plausible explanation? If it is the latter case, I believe that often it would be a false assumption.

[jawjateck]

Lawdie mercy.....yall's deep thinking stuff hurts my head.

 

Too much thinking......too little scorching hot sex

[+ Funguy]

As "they" say, "The brain is the largest erotic zone of the body." So keep deep thinking but close those eyes and enjoy! "Top" or "bottom."

[+ Truereview]

Back to the OP. For me, the answer is False. It is also all relative.

 

At its core topping, for me, is about preference - sometimes in the moment. Topping should not be about control unless your partner willingly wants it to be, and you genuinely want to make it about control. 2-way street. The only worth or value I see in topping, bottoming, flipping, even controlling: exploration and mutual satisfaction. For more connected partners, it can also be a beautiful expression of love. If it is healthy sex, there should be no insecurity or messiness, but we ain't perfect...so sh*t will happen - that's fodder for another contemporary thread.

 

Now, I will digress a bit: Much like purplecow, I'm verklempt w/ Glennnn's post. I just adore you, Glennnn, bc you have courage, particularly the courage to learn. Don't lose that. Don't become so jaded and self-delusional that you think you are the person who needs to slap hands, scold, or coach others into the right direction. The right direction is also relative. In 2016, I'm going to make it my personal mission to meet you and plant a big ol' homosexual kiss on you. Glennnn, you are PERFECT the imperfect way you are. And so are we! My best thoughts to you.

 

I am so upset that I gave the impression that my connection with the friends of Daddy has been less than golden. I was a 72 yo, closeted semi-virgin when I first found you guys. Since then, I have started a course of psychotherapy, conducted touching, meaningful, life-changing conversations with you as individuals, asked so many stupid questions usually posted on the wrong forum with out checking to see if there was a former thread and often poorly inserted in the discussion, and received nothing but support and kindness in return. I didn't know that gay guys could be anything but the clever, silly stereotypes we see in the media until I met you all.

 

What have I learned here: Gay love is tender, affectionate, passionate, hot, Legal, NATURAL, sustaining, helpful, undeniable, important, surprising and faithful. We are tops, bottoms, suckers, fuckers, kissers, jackers, huggers, trios, gang bangers, young, old, philosophical and most of all SURVIVORS!!!

 

I will be coming out to my family before the end of the year and hope to meet many of you when I attend the Palm Springs Weekend. Does it matter if I fuck or get fucked, suck or get sucked, kiss or get kissed? NO I think I might be dead today, if I hadn't stumbled on your amazing cyber club house. Thank you a billion times over, and believe that I am ok, I love myself, I love you and I am not alone anymore.

 

Glennn a big hug from me and I swear I was cutting onions as I read your post. You know Thanks giving dinner and all. Lots of onions in the stuffing.

[+ glennnn]

Back to the OP. For me, the answer is False. It is also all relative.

 

At its core topping, for me, is about preference - sometimes in the moment. Topping should not be about control unless your partner willingly wants it to be, and you genuinely want to make it about control. 2-way street. The only worth or value I see in topping, bottoming, flipping, even controlling: exploration and mutual satisfaction. For more connected partners, it can also be a beautiful expression of love. If it is healthy sex, there should be no insecurity or messiness, but we ain't perfect...so sh*t will happen - that's fodder for another contemporary thread.

 

Now, I will digress a bit: Much like purplecow, I'm verklempt w/ Glennnn's post. I just adore you, Glennnn, bc you have courage, particularly the courage to learn. Don't lose that. Don't become so jaded and self-delusional that you think you are the person who needs to slap hands, scold, or coach into the right direction. The right direction is also relative. In 2016, I'm going to make it my personal mission to meet you and plant a big ol' homosexual kiss on you. Glennnn, you are PERFECT the imperfect way you are. And so are we! My best thoughts to you.

 

Truereview,

I am determined that I will be in Palm Springs in April, even if I can't be there for all three days. I have my lips all puckered up (puckered is such a delightfully salacious word:rolleyes:) and I am greatly anticipating your kiss. Thank you for your kind words. Unbeknownst to most of you, my beloved mother-in-law died last Sunday at age 91 and I have been more than a little verklempt, myself. Thank you for your kindness and promised PDA. You put a smile on my face. Will I see you in Palm Springs?

[+ Truereview]

Truereview,

I am determined that I will be in Palm Springs in April, even if I can't be there for all three days. I have my lips all puckered up (puckered is such a delightfully salacious word:rolleyes:) and I am greatly anticipating your kiss. Thank you for your kind words. Unbeknownst to most of you, my beloved mother-in-law died last Sunday at age 91 and I have been more than a little verklempt, myself. Thank you for your kindness and promised PDA. You put a smile on my face. Will I see you in Palm Springs?

If I make it alive! That will be my first drive from LA to PS. Wish me luck, this New Yorker is a ditz when driving

 

PS - glad to make you smile.

[+ glennnn]

If I make it alive! That will be my first drive from LA to PS. Wish me luck, this New Yorker is a ditz when driving

 

 

It is a beautiful drive and I will arrange for there to be plenty of snow on the San Bernardino, San Gorgonio and San Jacinto Mountains to guide you along. Roll down the windows, put on the Stones (or whoever gets you hard) and LIVE ONE OF THE CALIFORNIA DREAMS.... springtime in the desert.

[+ Tygerscent]

Good question, Tyger and good answer, Mike. I agree with you. I don't think the tops who have to prove themselves are insecure bottoms. I think they are too insecure to be bottoms. I've complimented several tops on their "skills." Almost all of them have told me that they learned to be a good top by bottoming.

 

Regarding the worth/value of a top who has to be controlling? In my opinion, that type of behavior is worthless.

When it comes to penetration, I am 99.9% of the time the person penetrating~

Sexually I enjoy both being the penetrator and being penetrated~ When it comes to "delivering"/"directing"/"guiding" intimately and sexually, do utilize the many things I've learned by being on the other side of all of that~ For me, it's been good to know what it's like to be on the other side of an intimate or sexual situation~

 

Tyger~

971.400.2633

tygerkink@yahoo.com

 

http://www.daddysreviews.com/venue/usa/oregon/tyger_portland

 

http://rentmen.com/AAATygerscentXXX

 

http://m.men4rentnow.com/profile.cfm?CID=114061