Contacting a man one probably doesn't have a chance with...

[maninsoma]

I'll try not to be long winded in describing this specific scenario. As soon as I started working out at a gym several years ago, a few specific men caught my eye. Most of them have moved on but one of them is still a regular whose work out schedule overlaps a little with mine on occasion. Being that (a) I'm a bit shy; (b) he's incredibly hot -- handsome, muscular, great smile; and © I'm still overweight though not the extremely heavy guy I once was, I've never even attempted to talk with him.

 

Due to someone mentioning OKCupid on another thread, I thought I would check out that website. Lo and behold, I see a profile for this guy. He's not only adorable but also seems like a nice guy with a lot of compatibility with me in terms of world views. Still, I highly doubt he would be interested in dating a guy who is 10 years older than him who isn't anywhere near the underwear model shape that he's in. (I'm not exaggerating about the shape he's in.)

 

Should I send him a message online and, if so, what should I say? Lead with my insecurity? (That's what my instinct leads me to do, but it seems rather silly when I think about it.) Simply mention that I recognize him and give him some general flattery? Or should I simply not bother to message him since we haven't ever spoken with one another though we've had hundreds of opportunities to do so?

[dcguy20]

What is stopping you from just saying hi or a brief nod of familiarity when you see him at the gym? And, no, don't lead with your insecurity online.

[big-n-tall]

Message him or talk to him in the gym. Given that you're shy, messaging him is easier. I don't know exactly what to tell you to say to him, but do it.

 

Look at it this way... you have nothing to lose and everything to gain. The worse case scenario is he'll turn you down/say no. But you know what, you'll survive, be ok. If he rebuffs you harshly, then that's the universe saying you avoided a jackass.

 

The best case scenario you spark some type of relationship... friendship or more.

[maninsoma]

Well, I decided I'd just send him a message to acknowledge that I recognized him from the gym and thought I'd send a "hello" message. It will be interesting to see whether he responds online or in person (or not at all).

[big-n-tall]

Well, I decided I'd just send him a message to acknowledge that I recognized him from the gym and thought I'd send a "hello" message. It will be interesting to see whether he responds online or in person (or not at all).

 

Good for you. I hope, at the very least, you get a work out buddy.

[geminibear]

Good for you.

 

big-n-tall is spot on with his advice.

 

I myself am feeling a bit more empowered because of it.

 

nothing ventured, nothing gained.

[nate_sf]

Well, I decided I'd just send him a message to acknowledge that I recognized him from the gym and thought I'd send a "hello" message. It will be interesting to see whether he responds online or in person (or not at all).

 

This is exactly what I would have suggested. It's low-key and non-threatening for both parties. Nothing wrong with making some social connections at the gym, and maybe more. I wouldn't worry about the 10 year age difference, that's not really anything at all in the scheme of things.

[+ purplekow]

Being an extraordinarily good looking man myself, I hate it when guys try to come on to me with the obvious listing of my physical attributes and their paling in comparison. Listen, I work hard to look this good and i am glad you noticed, but come on, how about a bit of originality, or self confident human to human interaction. When men approach a man as good looking as I am, what turns my head is their intelligence, sincerity, sense of humor and originality. After all, guys as good looking as I am, can almost always get guys as good looking as I am, but hey I may want to date you, even if you are not as good looking as I am, if you present the right qualities.

 

 

This message brought to you by The Society for Those Who Date Extraordinarily Good Looking Men and the Men They Date .

[Juan Vancouver]

Well, I decided I'd just send him a message to acknowledge that I recognized him from the gym and thought I'd send a "hello" message. It will be interesting to see whether he responds online or in person (or not at all).

 

Something that a lot of people either online or in person seem to forget is that people that are often approached because they are perceived as desirable, are approached a lot. Often. By many people. Many of whom spark no desire in them. What the nicest of them do is respond with a Thank you, Have a great day, and a smile or something sweet like that.

 

PLEASE, do not mistake politeness for interest. Interest, especially coming from attractive and confident people is VERY clear, doesn't need to be interpreted. If he is interested in taking things further, he will clearly let you know. If he doesn't, pat yourself in the back, be happy you had the guts to contact him, thank his politeness and take your interests elsewhere.

 

It is often the failure in reading this what prompts people to need to be harsher fending people's advances.

 

On the other hand if you are as gracious as he was, he will probably think you are the coolest guy.

[+ FreshFluff]

Being an extraordinarily good looking man myself, I hate it when guys try to come on to me with the obvious listing of my physical attributes and their paling in comparison. Listen, I work hard to look this good and i am glad you noticed, but come on, how about a bit of originality, or self confident human to human interaction. When men approach a man as good looking as I am, what turns my head is their intelligence, sincerity, sense of humor and originality. After all, guys as good looking as I am, can almost always get guys as good looking as I am, but hey I may want to date you, even if you are not as good looking as I am, if you present the right qualities.

 

I completely agree. Whom you can land on the dating market is determined by far more than your looks. Are you exceptionally witty? Are you well known for something--your writing, music, even a large following social media? Are you well known in local restaurants, where the staff gives you VIP treatment. Each of these makes you more attractive.

 

Whether a particular guy will be interested depends even more on idiosyncratic factors. (For example, a particular guy may be obsessed with green eyes because his first love had them or maybe he's looking for a guy who loves Dickens.)

 

But if there are easy ways to make yourself look better (switch glasses for contacts, get waxed, work out), consider doing it. These will have a positive effect on your self confidence, which makes anyone more desirable.

[+ Gar1eth]

Well, I decided I'd just send him a message to acknowledge that I recognized him from the gym and thought I'd send a "hello" message. It will be interesting to see whether he responds online or in person (or not at all).

 

I was the one who mentioned OKCupid. One way to make the decision whether to contact him or not is to see how well you match on the OKCupid profile. Of course even if you aren't matches by profile, I think it's fine to send a message if it won't be awkward for you seeing him at the gym if he blows you off.

 

I completely agree. Whom you can land on the dating market is determined by far more than your looks. Are you exceptionally witty? Are you well known for something--your writing, music, even a large following social media? Are you well known in local restaurants, where the staff gives you VIP treatment. Each of these makes you more attractive.

 

Whether a particular guy will be interested depends even more on idiosyncratic factors. (For example, a particular guy may be obsessed with green eyes because his first love had them or maybe he's looking for a guy who loves Dickens.)

 

But if there are easy ways to make yourself look better (switch glasses for contacts, get waxed, work out), consider doing it. These will have a positive effect on your self confidence, which makes anyone more desirable.

 

Yes, theoretically and yes it does happen in real life too. But it doesn't happen for everyone. There are things you aren't considering, Fresh. We know guys are stereotypically drawn to what they see. In your case, you are a very pretty woman. Guys are going to want to get to know you. But just as straight guys are very vision-centric-gay guys in general seem to be more so. When I was on OKCupid 4 years ago, I can't tell you how many guys who according to their algorithms we seemed to be a match (although I realize that their algorithms are most likely not scientifically based and may not really mean anything ). And these guys profiles even said they were looking for friends or dates-and I would contact them on OKCupid-and either get a rejection or not hear anything. And while I don't really go to gay clubs now, there was a time 3 years ago when I went semi-frequently, and I could probably count on 4 fingers or less the number of times someone actually came up to me and was interested. There was also a time when I went to the gay bath houses. I can honestly say that out of all the times I went when I wasn't using them to meet an escort who didn't have an incall place-only about three times did anything happen. And in those three times that come to mind -I was the one who started the conversation. I never liked bathhouses that much anyway, and going to a club by myself with just about everyone else there with someone else and being ignored by the guys who aren't is very -well I'd say frustrating-but it's worse than that. It's gotten to the point where I feel like not attempting and being alone is better than all the rejection from clubs, hook-up apps, bath houses. At least this way I don't get my hopes up.

 

Gman

[+ purplekow]

Back in the day, when I was dating, a few my friends were successful daters and they would always advise me that women (I was dating women at the time) could smell the desperation on me. I tried too hard. Once I learned to relax, that took about 10 years, I found I enjoyed going out and meeting people, that people were drawn to me and my dating life took off, only to be grounded a few weeks later when I met the love of my life. At that time, I specifically was not looking and was trying just to enjoy being out. I found it best if I measured success by how comfortable I felt and how much fun I had.

So if you are at the gym, smile, enjoy yourself, talk if you have something to say and of course stalk this guy into the locker room and stare, tongue hanging out, as he undresses. Or smile and nod try not to act like a serial killer, and perhaps notice what kind of car he is driving and then opening with something like: I noticed you are driving a Cooper Mini. I am thinking of buying one but just how small are they? If he grunts and says he uses the Cooper for squats when he is on the road, it may be time to move on. If he answers with something like, Yeah it is a great car....you are off to the races in a Mini Cooper. Good luck

[maninsoma]

The good news is that once I got over my initial gym shyness, I have made quite a number of gym "friends" (by which I mean there are men I have conversations with at the gym but have no outside friendship) and I have developed actual friendships with several other guys. So even though I'm shy I'm not totally socially inept. I will say that my confidence significantly decreases as my physical attraction to the other guy increases, though, so if I actually develop some sort of friendship (even just a gym friendship) with this guy it will be a step in the right direction for me.

[Rudynate]

I joined a new gym a few months ago. It's the friendliest place - I look forward to going every day. It's mostly young straight guys, quite a few of who are actual competition bodybuilders. We all do our fist bumps and talking lifting and diets, etc. I really enjoy it.

[Guest Starbuck]

This LOOKS thing is a real stumbling block.

 

...he's incredibly hot--handsome, muscular, great smile; and I'm still overweight though not the extremely heavy guy I once was...

 

OK, so you think he's better LOOKING than you. In what ways do you think you might be "better" than him? Are you more intelligent? More accomplished? Are you loyal to your friends and kind to strangers? How's your sense of humor?

 

I've never even attempted to talk with him.

 

I think from the phrase "never even attempted" that you mean his LOOKS kind of ... intimidate ... you? Maybe you think he'd find you ... boring? But if I'm correct in assuming that he has never tried to start a conversation with you either, maybe he's also intimidated ... maybe beneath those model-quality LOOKS he's got a nagging sense of worry that he's boring. (I know, we always find that hard to imagine about guys who LOOK so damn ... perfect.)

 

PLEASE, do not mistake politeness for interest. Interest, especially coming from attractive and confident people is VERY clear; [it] doesn't need to be interpreted. If he is interested in taking things further, he will clearly let you know.

ICK. (I just vomited a little in my mouth.) Listen, if the Marlboro Man thinks he's in the driver's seat just because he LOOKS good (and knows he does), you missed your chance at love with a shallow, arrogant narcissist. Worse things have happened to you.

 

What is stopping you from just saying hi or a brief nod of familiarity when you see him at the gym? And, no, don't lead with your insecurity.

 

Yeah. what he said! Seems to me that going the electronic route limits the potential. If you'd talked in person, slowly gotten to know one another, some of those areas of compatibility that you discovered online might have revealed themselves. He would have gotten to know YOU, rather than just knowing what you LOOK like. (Have you ever had the experience of getting to know someone -- a friend, a colleague, a lover -- and one day realizing that s/he had become more attractive to you -- I mean, actually seemed to LOOK BETTER -- than your first impression simply because you came to know and appreciate that person's many fine qualities?)

 

That said, this stuff is hard, no question about it. So you're taking a shot in the way that is most comfortable to you. Good for you and GOOD LUCK.

[maninsoma]

Yes, looks can be a major stumbling block. I'm not saying that someone who is incredibly buff is always only interested in other men who look similar, but based on what I've seen in the world it certainly seems more common that muscular men date other muscular men. I don't think that this makes him better than me, though -- just in better physical shape.

 

From what I have learned about him on line (his OKCupid profile and other online presence), he seems like a financially stable, smart, nice, and funny guy. Oh, how I wish I could have read a bunch of stuff in his profile that would have turned me off. It would have made lusting after him while not actually being interested in him so easy, but now I have to struggle with the idea that he's got a lot of other positive qualities in addition to good looks. lol.

 

And thanks for voicing a reaction to what Juan posted that is similar to my initial reaction. I frequently appreciate Juan's posts so I don't want to gang up on him, but it seemed more than a little arrogant and unnecessary to even suggest that I would mistake politeness for interest. If anything, I have the opposite problem.

[Juan Vancouver]

ICK. (I just vomited a little in my mouth.) Listen, if the Marlboro Man thinks he's in the driver's seat just because he LOOKS good (and knows he does), you missed your chance at love with a shallow, arrogant narcissist. Worse things have happened to you.

 

Sorry that you puked in your mouth, but you are misinterpreting what I wrote. I am not taking about better and worse. (As you are. I don't see relationships as a competition where partners have to measure dicks to understand the pecking order -if I did, I would be fucked) I am not talking about who's in the seat driver or in control, especially based on a perceived higher worth by anyone.

 

I am talking about paying close attention to when there is interest and where is not. I see every day really uncomfortable situations where the pursued politely and graciously thanks the attentions and tries to move on and the suitor, mistaking politeness for interest corners the pursued in very uncomfortable positions.

 

"Wow, your body is really amazing! You have been working really hard!"

"Oh, thank you. That's so kind of you to say. Have a great day!"

"Yeah, it complements your gorgeous face!"

"Oh... Thanks." (Making an exit)

"Yeah, you are really sexy, and I noticed you are single."

"Im sorry man, I gotta run..."

"What's the problem? Stop giving me mixed signals!"

 

This script plays itself constantly and it's a bit unfair. You being a woman should be harshly aware of when someone simply doesn't read the room and keeps pushing with unwanted and unwelcomed attentions. It's not because you are better, it's not because you are a woman, it's not because you are in the driving seat. He had his say, you thanked him and made it clear there's nothing there, he keeps pushing.

 

What would you recommend a girlfriend of yours if a man kept doing that? How is a man different?

 

it seemed more than a little arrogant and unnecessary to even suggest that I would mistake politeness for interest. If anything, I have the opposite problem.

 

I totally believe you do. If I shared this it's because this is an incredibly common problem. There are a few examples in the responses above, like:

 

If he grunts and says he uses the Cooper for squats when he is on the road, it may be time to move on. If he answers with something like, Yeah it is a great car....you are off to the races in a Mini Cooper.

 

No! If he responds that it's a great car he is just being polite! It's time to move on!

 

Now, if he responds "Tell you something, why don't I take you for a ride so you can get a feel of it? I know a really nice restaurant and we can have dinner" THEN you are off to the races.

 

Cruising is like playing poker. In order for things to advance there has to be a raise. If there is no raise, one has to fold. Game is over.

[Rudynate]

 

Cruising is like playing poker. In order for things to advance there has to be a raise. If there is no raise, one has to fold. Game is over.

 

To an extent, I agree. It's like selling, you have to try to close him by upping the ante. If he resists your closes, he's probably not for you.

[maninsoma]

Sorry that you puked in your mouth, but you are misinterpreting what I wrote. I am not taking about better and worse. (As you are. I don't see relationships as a competition where partners have to measure dicks to understand the pecking order -if I did, I would be fucked) I am not talking about who's in the seat driver or in control, especially based on a perceived higher worth by anyone.

 

I am talking about paying close attention to when there is interest and where is not. I see every day really uncomfortable situations where the pursued politely and graciously thanks the attentions and tries to move on and the suitor, mistaking politeness for interest corners the pursued in very uncomfortable positions.

 

"Wow, your body is really amazing! You have been working really hard!"

"Oh, thank you. That's so kind of you to say. Have a great day!"

"Yeah, it complements your gorgeous face!"

"Oh... Thanks." (Making an exit)

"Yeah, you are really sexy, and I noticed you are single."

"Im sorry man, I gotta run..."

"What's the problem? Stop giving me mixed signals!"

 

This script plays itself constantly and it's a bit unfair. You being a woman should be harshly aware of when someone simply doesn't read the room and keeps pushing with unwanted and unwelcomed attentions. It's not because you are better, it's not because you are a woman, it's not because you are in the driving seat. He had his say, you thanked him and made it clear there's nothing there, he keeps pushing.

 

What would you recommend a girlfriend of yours if a man kept doing that? How is a man different?

 

 

 

I totally believe you do. If I shared this it's because this is an incredibly common problem. There are a few examples in the responses above, like:

 

 

 

No! If he responds that it's a great car he is just being polite! It's time to move on!

 

Now, if he responds "Tell you something, why don't I take you for a ride so you can get a feel of it? I know a really nice restaurant and we can have dinner" THEN you are off to the races.

 

Cruising is like playing poker. In order for things to advance there has to be a raise. If there is no raise, one has to fold. Game is over.

 

Well, maybe things aren't always as black-or-white as you're making them out to be. Sure, if someone gives a polite answer and then says "I have to run" or literally starts leaving, that's a clear indication that there's no interest. But I don't think that the lack of an immediate invitation to go for a ride together, for example, can be equated with disinterest. If anything, I think that for most people a little back and forth conversation before anyone suggests taking things further is far more common. It's different when a client contacts an escort because (a) the escort is advertising for clients and (b) the client is specifically contacting an escort he's interested in. But apart from social/sexual settings like bathhouses, I think that a less intense (fast) approach feels far more natural.

 

This actually reminds me of a friend of mine who's had a crush on a guy for many years even though he knows there's no reciprocal interest. I know the man he has a crush on as well and his perspective was that part of the problem was that my friend's initial approach was far too brash. He basically came up and asked him out without making any attempt at small talk first. That may work for some people (and I suppose that if there's an incredibly strong physical attraction, that might play out better), but the guy in this instance just felt like it was strange that someone asked him to go on a date who hadn't even bothered to find out anything about him.

[+ Funguy]

Being an extraordinarily good looking man myself, I hate it when guys try to come on to me with the obvious listing of my physical attributes and their paling in comparison. Listen, I work hard to look this good and i am glad you noticed, but come on, how about a bit of originality, or self confident human to human interaction. When men approach a man as good looking as I am, what turns my head is their intelligence, sincerity, sense of humor and originality. After all, guys as good looking as I am, can almost always get guys as good looking as I am, but hey I may want to date you, even if you are not as good looking as I am, if you present the right qualities.

 

This message brought to you by The Society for Those Who Date Extraordinarily Good Looking Men and the Men They Date .

 

Be still my heart! There IS someone out there as good looking as I am!

[+ stevenkesslar]

This is exactly what I would have suggested. It's low-key and non-threatening for both parties. Nothing wrong with making some social connections at the gym, and maybe more. I wouldn't worry about the 10 year age difference, that's not really anything at all in the scheme of things.

 

I agree with Nate and Juan.

 

Say or write something low key. While you can never generalize 100 percent about people the response you get will give you a big clue whether there is reciprocal interest.

 

Your anecdote about the dangers of leading with "Hey, let's date" is a good example of why you aren't necessarily served well by being too forward or pushy. . If you start very low key in writing or verbally you have less to lose in terms of what Juan describes as "cornering" him. As you said, just establishing friendly verbal communication is more than you started with. As far as that's concerned, you should do it because you have nothing to lose.

 

Let us know how it goes.

[+ friendofsheila]

Miss Manners says: The roof is an excuse (the "roof" you are both "under").

 

Website message: "Hi, I recognize you from the gym. I'll make sure to say hello the next time I see you."

 

In the gym: "Hi, I'm the person who messaged you on the dating website. My name is FriendofSheila. How are you?"

 

"Um, fine."

 

"I'm having just okay luck with the place, but I ...... [brief opinion or info about how I use the website*]. Are you finding it worthwhile?"

 

"Yeah, um, it's okay."

 

"Hmm. Well, maybe I'll think longer about whether I want to continue using it. [And if Mr. Beautiful has nothing to add....] I'm going to go use the pool. Have a good workout!"

 

*(Alternate topic could be using the gym, too.)

 

 

This gives you an opening to say again to him some days later:

 

"Hey, I stopped using the website/improved my profile/whatever...."

 

If Mr. Beautiful can't manage to engage in even a reasonable conversation, he might not be worth talking to, but at least you let him know you want something else besides an immediate date.

[maninsoma]

Well, we'll see how things play out in person now that I've sent him a message and he decided not to reply. (I know he read the message yesterday, so I assume no reply is forthcoming.) I doubt I will approach him at the gym unless I get a smile or some other acknowledgement from him since the lack of reply online basically says to me that he isn't even interested in engaging in any sort of small talk with me.

[instudiocity]

I'm confused, how can you know what is attractive to him unless you talk to him.

 

I have a friend who is MODEL good looking. Brown & brown, scruff, 6'0", 190#, 8% BMI, 42" chest, 29" waist, 18" biceps, yada, yada, da. He's a commercial actor.

 

His ideal guy: from 2 years younger to 12 years older, 5'8" to 6'2", not too skinny, not obese, any hair on his head/bald, tats/no tats, with a sweet personality who is funny and fun to be with, positive attitude, successful but not rich.

 

And in 10 years, I've seen him date everything in between those parameters. He just wants a companion. Fastest way to turn him off? Compliment him on his FABULOUS looks.

[+ FreshFluff]

Maninsoma, I'm sorry the guy hasn't responded yet. You can always try FoS's strategy (a series of flirts with plausible deniability) and see how it goes.

 

This actually reminds me of a friend of mine who's had a crush on a guy for many years even though he knows there's no reciprocal interest. I know the man he has a crush on as well and his perspective was that part of the problem was that my friend's initial approach was far too brash. He basically came up and asked him out without making any attempt at small talk first. That may work for some people (and I suppose that if there's an incredibly strong physical attraction, that might play out better), but the guy in this instance just felt like it was strange that someone asked him to go on a date who hadn't even bothered to find out anything about him.

 

Sorry, but I'm having trouble buying that the direct approach was the reason unless it was a major faux pas ("wanna f***?"). When one is really attracted to another person, it's amazing what deal breakers one will forgive.