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Sobriety


Irish69
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Thanks for the open and honest post Chris, and yes, Sober sex can/is frightening at first. Unfortunately it remains a long process before sober sex can truly be enjoyed. Removing old preconceived ideas of behavior of living a life controlled by substance abuse, is far more difficult than most people can imagine. It is often a constant and seemingly never ending battle.

 

It's refreshing to hear someone talk about the "hope"....

I spent sometime trying to look up resent stats on recovery time and relapse. I usually go NIDA. National Institutute of Drug Abuse. They are noted for the most accurate numbers. I think they may be a gov agency. Twenty seven yrs ago, in my first program, we were told, out of the 30 of us, 2 would be sober/straight at the end of a year. Some stats still say 80% will have relapsed at the end of a year. Chris, I too am happy that the person you mentioned took some initial steps. And, that's what they are, baby steps. I don't want to take anything away from either one of you, but almost anyone will say, including me, that when a person gets discharged from a rehab or treatment program, there is this unnatural "high." One of which says I can conquer anything, I am in control, nothing can put me down. It really is a dangerous time. I'll some up some of my thoughts.

1) I was ripe for the addiction world at birth.

2) Multiple issues of abuse happened before the ages of my control.

3) I started the use of opioids for legitimate reasons at 13, and immediately knew that it took my pain away, and I LIKED them.

4) I can abuse ANYTHING! Not just drugs and alcohol.

5) I did learn from treatment, and many people who don't have an issue know this. I am responsible for me and my decisions. Maybe that is why people who don't have an issue don't have an issue!!! I have a quote about addictions. I will claim it as mine for the day:

"Having an active addiction, is like swimming in a septic tank, waiting to drown." WG2

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I spent sometime trying to look up resent stats on recovery time and relapse. I usually go NIDA. National Institutute of Drug Abuse. They are noted for the most accurate numbers. I think they may be a gov agency. Twenty seven yrs ago, in my first program, we were told, out of the 30 of us, 2 would be sober/straight at the end of a year. Some stats still say 80% will have relapsed at the end of a year. Chris, I too am happy that the person you mentioned took some initial steps. And, that's what they are, baby steps. I don't want to take anything away from either one of you, but almost anyone will say, including me, that what a person gets discharged from a rehab or treatment program, there is this unnatural "high." One of which says I can conquer anything, I am in control, nothing can put me down. It really is a dangerous time. I'll some up some of my thoughts.

1) I was ripe for the addiction world at birth.

2) Multiple issues of abuse happened before the ages of my control.

3) I started the use of opioids for legitimate reasons at 13, and immediately knew that it took my pain away, and I LIKED them.

4) I can abuse ANYTHING! Not just drugs and alcohol.

5) I did learn from treatment, and many people who don't have an issue know this. I am responsible for me and my decisions. Maybe that is why people who don't have an issue don't have an issue!!! I have a quote about addictions. I will claim it as mine for the day:

"Having an active addiction, is like swimming in a septic tank, waiting to drown." WG2

 

I remember being told that the rate of recovery was often in the single digits...stats like that are frightening, but they can not be a deterrent. Addicts in recovery, are on the great battle field, they are warriors, and they are fighting for their lives. Have a safe and blessed weekend WG2

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I remember being told that the rate of recovery was often in the single digits...stats like that are frightening, but they can not be a deterrent. Addicts in recovery, are on the great battle field, they are warriors, and they are fighting for their lives. Have a safe and blessed weekend WG2

I like to "scale" things on my scale of course! So on the difficulty scale of staying sober/straight from 1 being, "This was a great day, I am glad I am straight." To..."Shit, I don't how I made without being dead or in jail." I am usually a 7 or an 8. I have come to terms with that. I do go down to a 1 when I am in Chicago! I drive my friend nuts with, "Well, what do you think of the performance?" "What did you think of dinner?" He replies over and over, "That's just your scale, it doesn't matter!!!" Then I make him give me a number, we laugh. bigvalboy, thanks for the weekend wish! You as well for sure! WG2

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Thanks for these posts. I have one staff member who is now sober, doesn't drink, hasn't used drugs for years and is one of my very best employees. Even when he travels, he makes sure to find time to attend an AA meeting. He is often telling me what a horrible life he had and how he still has to take one day at a time. Unfortunately, I just learned that one of my other employees is a "closet alcoholic" if that is an appropriate term, but at a recent convention that employee was found by other staff and board members to be drunk four out of five nights during the convention. So, next week, we will have a confrontation to see if we can redirect that employee to get help. I am just afraid that our intervention may not be enough and that person will have to go down farther before able to come up. Thanks too for sharing the Jellinek Curve. I will be able to use that next week.

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Thanks Diverdan for the story, and in the end you may not be able to help them, but you have to try. Sometimes, it is a cry for help, and the person in question is desperately seeking someone just to listen to the hell that they are going through. Either way, they need to know that there are consequences to their actions. My only input is, whatever you do, do it with an outpouring of love, and zero judgment. Good luck, and they will be in my thoughts today.

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Thanks for these posts. I have one staff member who is now sober, doesn't drink, hasn't used drugs for years and is one of my very best employees. Even when he travels, he makes sure to find time to attend an AA meeting. He is often telling me what a horrible life he had and how he still has to take one day at a time. Unfortunately, I just learned that one of my other employees is a "closet alcoholic" if that is an appropriate term, but at a recent convention that employee was found by other staff and board members to be drunk four out of five nights during the convention. So, next week, we will have a confrontation to see if we can redirect that employee to get help. I am just afraid that our intervention may not be enough and that person will have to go down farther before able to come up. Thanks too for sharing the Jellinek Curve. I will be able to use that next week.

First, there are things that I have taken from treatment and meetings that help me, and leave the rest behind. Second, I still prefer to use the term intervention vs confrontation. It's a bit softer. Third, never say never. A while back, I needed to do an intervention. I'm thinking, "Me of all people!" I love this person and his significant others. I gathered a person that he respected, and I had my facts in order, than I tried to present with caring yet with truth and facts. I also had recommendations ready. I could be a person he could trust, and talk to at anytime. I could not be his salvation. In my work, I have been called a families salvation more than once. I know it's ment as compliment. I feel somewhat uncomfortable with that. It puts way to much responsibility on a person. So, Diverdan being the employer puts a twist on it I know. I have been in many situations with employees that involved changing behavior. And, this is what you are trying to do. So, my advice is this. Showing that you care is first. This persons welfare is paramount to himself and the business. Have your facts in order. Perhaps, some recommendations. I have also picked up on this. If he is ready, expect tears. If not, no tear. I guess we call it denial. Good luck, WG2. Please PM me if you would like. I have one more recommendation.

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Thanks for all of the comments in this thread. I should have used the word "intervention" as that is my approach. It is somewhat difficult to deal with as an employer, as thus far it has had minimal effect on that person's daily work, as far as I can tell. But the episodes at the convention make it an even more serious issue for the future. Thanks for the suggestions and comments. I'll let you all know how it evolves.

DD

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Thanks for these posts. I have one staff member who is now sober, doesn't drink, hasn't used drugs for years and is one of my very best employees. Even when he travels, he makes sure to find time to attend an AA meeting. He is often telling me what a horrible life he had and how he still has to take one day at a time. Unfortunately, I just learned that one of my other employees is a "closet alcoholic" if that is an appropriate term, but at a recent convention that employee was found by other staff and board members to be drunk four out of five nights during the convention. So, next week, we will have a confrontation to see if we can redirect that employee to get help. I am just afraid that our intervention may not be enough and that person will have to go down farther before able to come up. Thanks too for sharing the Jellinek Curve. I will be able to use that next week.

 

 

Your mixed motives complicate things. He's a person you care about and he's an underperforming employee. Which hat will you wear for the intervention - caring friend or frustrated employer delivering an ultimatum?

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Did anyone watch the exit interview this morning on CBS with David Letterman and Jane Pauley? I was not aware that that he declares himself an alcoholic? He very truthfully admits that he started at 11 years old. His dad would offer him alcohol all the time. "I took my first drink at 11 and loved it."

He continued to escalate until 34 when his career was taking off. He said he made the decision himself, and sounds like he white knuckled it. He said to himself: "Almost no one gets a chance like I have." Hasn't had a drop since.

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Sobriety is so important. I never drank as a child or even as a young adult. Then I started with wine, added liqueurs, and eventually graduated to gin. Two, three, even four martinis were my evening fix, and I can't tell you how many times I should not have been driving; but for the grace of God I did not get into an accident or get a DWI. This was all exacerbated by being the primary caregiver for an aging parent. I used to pour the first martini when I walked in the door before I even said hello to anyone.

 

One day I just stopped drinking at home. Then a couple of months later, I went to a wedding as someone's guest and had three or four martinis. The next morning I had the first hangover I had ever had in my life. I have never had a drink again, and that was fourteen years, six months and 17 days ago. I never went to any meetings or organizations, but eventually I realized that I WAS an alcoholic and will always be one and can never have a drink for the rest of my life. It has also taught me empathy for other addictions rather than judgment and condemnation.

 

I am proud of myself, and when, a year ago, I needed to do something about my excess weight, I knew I could follow through because I had already stayed sober. I have regained my physical health and now look forward to a future where my physical and mental health are within my own control. Being gay doesn't have to mean showing the rest of society abusive and excessive behavior; it should mean being leaders for lives well lived and being examples for all those, gay or non-gay, who seek a better life. So many of you on this Forum are helping to lead the way as well.

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Rudynate...you are right... there are mixed motives here... I am a concerned and frustrated employer, as I have learned that this person has successfully hid the problem for many years... but now in the past year it has become widely known and has now been brought to my attention in such a way that it cannot be not dealt with. In this case I cannot really be only a "caring friend" as I have legal and fiduciary responsibilities to the company, and am ultimately responsible should something untoward happen to this individual or other employees or customers as a result of this behavior. None of the options are easy, but the situation must be dealt with in the most professional and caring manner. However, the employee has to understand clearly that the continuation of this behavior will result in termination, as we have no choice but to put the welfare of other employees, clients, and the company first.

DD

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Guest ChrisW
I remember being told that the rate of recovery was often in the single digits...stats like that are frightening, but they can not be a deterrent. Addicts in recovery, are on the great battle field, they are warriors, and they are fighting for their lives. Have a safe and blessed weekend WG2

I know this isn't a popular sentiment but staying sober for the rest of your life is a great goal but people do relapse. Being sober for the rest of your life is something that everyone in recovery aspires too but do you have the skills, support network, and will to stop yourself after your slip up? I have known so many people that cascade after an initial slip up because they are so wracked with shame for slipping.

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I know this isn't a popular sentiment but staying sober for the rest of your life is a great goal but people do relapse. Being sober for the rest of your life is something that everyone in recovery aspires too but do you have the skills, support network, and will to stop yourself after your slip up? I have known so many people that cascade after an initial slip up because they are so wracked with shame for slipping.

Chris, You are just too too nice!!! I would have liked to have hired you as one of my enabler's decades ago! When someone slips, cascades, and then says its the blame he feels over slipping? No, no, no. It may be a small part of why he is cascading into the septic tank. That reason was pulled from the list eons ago. I will be honest with you. Not everyone in recovery aspires for a lifetime of recovery. The do it for a job, family, a requirement from sombody or some agency. The list goes on. Many people try to circumvent the issue to meet their own terms. I did it well for years.

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Rudynate...you are right... there are mixed motives here... I am a concerned and frustrated employer, as I have learned that this person has successfully hid the problem for many years... but now in the past year it has become widely known and has now been brought to my attention in such a way that it cannot be not dealt with. In this case I cannot really be only a "caring friend" as I have legal and fiduciary responsibilities to the company, and am ultimately responsible should something untoward happen to this individual or other employees or customers as a result of this behavior. None of the options are easy, but the situation must be dealt with in the most professional and caring manner. However, the employee has to understand clearly that the continuation of this behavior will result in termination, as we have no choice but to put the welfare of other employees, clients, and the company first.

DD

DD, As I said, I have dealt with trying to change behavior too many times to count. Chatting, counseling, giving warnings, involving HR, and ENDLESS documentation and discharge. I had patients to protect. This is just what I would do. Meeting with the employee of course. I would insist on an AODA assessment. Therapist of the companies choice. Then you call that therapist. I don't believe you would be breaking any kind of HIPPA regulations, since there is nothing that you are seeking. You are trying to help an employee, and protect the company

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Guest ChrisW
Chris, You are just too too nice!!! I would have liked to have hired you as one of my enabler's decades ago!

Thank you for putting me in the category of escorts that don't have any integrity. Your a real charmer

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Thank you for putting me in the category of escorts that don't have any integrity. Your a real charmer

OMG! I hope I'm reading you incorrectly! I took the "nice" thing from not only the forum, but I believe from some of your reviews? Plus, just from some of your posts, in your case, integrity equates with "nice." However, I stand by my statement: When a person gets out of any kind of treatment program it is a dangerous time. There have a few pieces of evolution of AODA treatment that have been good. Relapses to not just happen, even first ones, there are thoughts put into it. No harm intended. And yes, I am a charmer! Thanks

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Rudynate...you are right... there are mixed motives here... I am a concerned and frustrated employer, as I have learned that this person has successfully hid the problem for many years... but now in the past year it has become widely known and has now been brought to my attention in such a way that it cannot be not dealt with. In this case I cannot really be only a "caring friend" as I have legal and fiduciary responsibilities to the company, and am ultimately responsible should something untoward happen to this individual or other employees or customers as a result of this behavior. None of the options are easy, but the situation must be dealt with in the most professional and caring manner. However, the employee has to understand clearly that the continuation of this behavior will result in termination, as we have no choice but to put the welfare of other employees, clients, and the company first.

DD

 

 

So your overriding priority is as his employer. Perfectly reasonable. You'll avoid wasting a lot of time and effort having gotten clear on your motives.

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Everyone's path toward and through recovery/sobriety is their own.

 

I don't aspire to a lifetime of recovery. I aspire to a happy life, fully and deeply lived. I also know (having learned the hard way) that being sober is absolutely essential to my being able to even aspire to happiness. In about three weeks, I will have spent twelve years doing it one day at a time. All I can say for sure is that everything that is good in my life is good because I decided to stop using twelve years ago.

 

I might add:

Hiring has been a really important tool for me in reconnecting with my body/sexuality in sobriety. The guys I've met haven't necessarily known that explicitly but (to steal a phrase YooperMike used in another thread) the best of these gents have definitely "escorted" me to a deeper awareness of what sober sex can be.

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I know this isn't a popular sentiment but staying sober for the rest of your life is a great goal but people do relapse. Being sober for the rest of your life is something that everyone in recovery aspires too but do you have the skills, support network, and will to stop yourself after your slip up? I have known so many people that cascade after an initial slip up because they are so wracked with shame for slipping.

 

The goal is not to be sober for the rest of your life, it is to be sober one day at a time. Focus on today, then focus on today again. People in recovery are not forgiven nor shamed, rather, after a slip, they are told to stand up and start recovery all over again. If they do, they have forgiven themselves and they get the credit and if they do not, that is their choice and they shoulder the responsibility.

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The goal is not to be sober for the rest of your life, it is to be sober one day at a time. Focus on today, then focus on today again. People in recovery are not forgiven nor shamed, rather, after a slip, they are told to stand up and start recovery all over again. If they do, they have forgiven themselves and they get the credit and if they do not, that is their choice and they shoulder the responsibility.

 

purplekow, This is a subject where one or two methods do not cover everyone. I absolutely understand that you mean

well.

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purplekow, This is a subject where one or two methods do not cover everyone. I absolutely understand that you mean

well.

 

 

It's always a fertile topic of discussion at 12-step meetings exactly what "one day at a time" means. The different interpretations are pretty interesting.

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As one more resource for people working to stop using alcohol or other addictive substances, people working to maintain sobriety, or people working to understand the struggles of addicts either active or in recovery, here is a useful introduction to recovery and relapse prevention based on cognitive behavioral therapy methods, a powerful complement to the abstinence-commitment methods embodied in twelve-step approaches:

 

http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh23-2/151-160.pdf

 

Here is one organization, comparable in some ways to AA, working to help addicts apply those principles to achieve and maintain sobriety and recovery:

 

http://www.smartrecovery.org

 

These principles and approaches have been invaluable in helping me find the way out of a decades-long alcohol addiction.

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