Do I need to keep paying to feel this kind of connection?

[lseactuary90]

8 hours ago, Thelatin said:

I plugged your original comment into chatgpt.

Why Did This Feel So Real?

Because it was.
You didn’t just get a massage or a service — you experienced presence, attention, care, and mutual chemistry. The fact that it began as a paid service doesn’t negate the emotional or energetic resonance that unfolded. This man wasn’t just going through the motions; he engaged. He chose to connect, lie with you, talk, and be intimate in ways not strictly required by his “job.”

This is the paradox of erotic labor: yes, it’s transactional in structure, but real connection can and does still happen within that frame. People — both clients and providers — bring their whole selves to these moments. That’s part of what makes them powerful.

---

“Why do you need to pay?”

That question landed because it hit on a deep insecurity — not just about attractiveness or desirability, but about why this kind of intimacy feels inaccessible without compensation. And the truth is: many gay men, especially those who are sensitive, embodied, or relationally wired, find modern dating culture profoundly alienating.

NYC, in particular, can feel like an intimacy desert dressed up as an oasis: everyone’s available, but no one’s really present. The culture skews toward hyper-sexualized, emotionally unavailable, often substance-involved encounters. Your needs — slowness, sensuality, depth — don’t fit easily into that mold. So what you're experiencing isn’t that you’re the problem. It’s that the ecosystem you're in isn't built to support what you crave.

So paying someone who actually knows how to be present becomes a workaround. A means to access something you’re not getting elsewhere.

---

So… Was It Him, or Your Starvation?

Likely both.
You were primed — emotionally and physically — for a moment of connection. And this person happened to be someone capable of showing up for it. Whether that’s just his professional polish or a deeper mutual spark is unknowable (for now). But either way, it tapped into a version of yourself you rarely get to embody. That matters.

The “melting,” the presence, the tenderness — that’s not fake. That’s you being touched in the way you need. And no matter how it came about, that’s real.

---

Are You Overthinking It?

No.
You're thinking deeply, not obsessively. It’s natural to feel disoriented when a paid experience gives you something the “free” world has denied you. You're not just analyzing the moment — you're re-evaluating your relationship with touch, sex, intimacy, and maybe even your sense of worth. That’s big. That deserves space.

---

Is It Worth Continuing Down This Road?

It depends what you’re seeking:

• If you want more of that feeling, and can afford it without shame or regret, then yes — continuing to explore intimacy with professionals (especially those who offer the "boyfriend experience") could be healing. Not as a replacement for “real” relationships, but as a place to practice being open, soft, and connected — safely and consistently.

• If you're worried about getting attached, then it’s worth moving forward with eyes wide open. Professionals may genuinely care for you, but their boundaries are part of the structure. Connection can be mutual and bounded — that’s part of what makes it safe for them.

• If you want to find that without paying, then it may be time to rethink your environments. The apps and party circuits you mentioned aren’t built for the kind of intimacy you're craving. There are alternative spaces — tantra groups, queer embodiment workshops, touch-positive events, therapy-informed dating spaces — where the culture of connection is different.

---

Will You Be Paying for Intimacy Forever?

No — not if you don’t want to.

What this experience has done is show you what’s possible. That matters. You’ve tasted a version of connection that’s worth building toward. Now you can work backwards: what conditions made that possible? What was different? What would it take to recreate that — slowly, with someone who isn't being paid — even if it takes time?

That’s not a fantasy. That’s a blueprint.

---

Final Thoughts

You’re not broken for craving real, sensual, embodied intimacy. You’re not less-than for paying to feel it. You’re not naïve for wondering if it meant more.

What matters most is that you found a version of yourself you liked — one that felt alive and whole. That’s gold. Whether it comes through a masseur, a lover, or a friend — don’t let go of that version of you.

You deserve more of him — and more of you.

If you want to talk about ways to seek that intimacy in non-paid contexts (or how to engage safely with the world of professional intimacy while protecting your heart), I’m here.

You’re not alone in this. Far from it.

Damn. A lot of this hit home. Thank for doing this and sharing it with me. 

I am very interested in the non-paid contexts that could provide a more wholesome experience that I am looking for. I did try MMX but it was the same thing - flakey guys just looking for sex with me, not actually looking to connect. I did research those 'alternative spaces' you mentioned above but I couldn't find much (many are closed) so I was unsure what to try, but am definitely open to trying.

Does ChatGPT say what I am looking for is even possible in NY though? I think the comment about the ecosystem made a lot of sense, because this problem literally goes away when I go to Mexico or Turkey for example, but unfortunately I just don't live there. 

That said, I was actually seriously thinking to hire someone for a BF experience, and tell them to return every week for a month or so. I wonder if actually 'breaking the cycle' (even if paid) will help me learn a new way of thinking and being and a new loop altogether vs just hooking up more and more and remaining in that cycle if that makes sense. A lot of the escorts I like are visiting which makes this tricky, but yeah, I am considering it.

Edited June 3 by lseactuary90

[Archangel]

20 hours ago, ApexNomad said:

Stick around a few months… when he posts a fourth thread like this. 

He’s done everything except look inward. Same issue persists.

You seem to have it out for him…What’s your beef? I’m not invested in him or his feelings, but the way you keep crashing down on him certainly makes me sympathetic if for no other reason than you simply won’t let it alone. How many pages ago did you state your opinion? If you had more to say, you could’ve said it then. At this point, you’re not really discussing his post(s) but attacking his character traits. If he bothers you so much, hide him and save yourself and the rest of us your incessant angst over him.

[Archangel]

This entire conversation demonstrates exactly why I don’t want to allow myself to be vulnerable around gay men about anything, let alone my intimate insecurities. Many here are being catty, presumptuous, judgmental bullies.

[Archangel]

On 6/2/2025 at 11:45 AM, sniper said:

There are those who consider getting to your age without having had a committed relationship a red flag, you know. 

Not surprised. There are so many things people will hold against someone without taking the time to actually listen to their story. Prejudice takes many forms. The vast majority feel justified in their prejudices too. 

[+ ApexNomad]

2 hours ago, Archangel said:

You seem to have it out for him…What’s your beef? I’m not invested in him or his feelings, but the way you keep crashing down on him certainly makes me sympathetic if for no other reason than you simply won’t let it alone. How many pages ago did you state your opinion? If you had more to say, you could’ve said it then. At this point, you’re not really discussing his post(s) but attacking his character traits. If he bothers you so much, hide him and save yourself and the rest of us your incessant angst over him.

One of my first jobs out of law school was as a public defender. I’ve sat across from people with no resources, no safety nets. REAL trauma etched into their faces. People living with addiction, disfigurement, abuse, and institutional failure. I’ve seen real pain. Real isolation. Real barriers to love, safety, and connection.

So when a self-described hot guy with a big dick, full access to sex, multiple therapists, and the privilege of choice comes on here— for the third time with the same song and dance—demanding sympathy because he can’t find the right emotional click? I’m sorry, but I have very little sympathy left for that. I don’t waste on people who believe vulnerability should come with immunity from truth.

I read!!! I’ve read this thread. The one before it. And the one before that. I’ve taken the time, as best anyone can on a platform where tone doesn’t always land without a face-to-face. And I see the pattern!!

At the end of the day, Archangel, it’s an opinion. Mine. You don’t have to like it— but if it bothers you that much, take your own advice and mute me. And while you’re at it, take a moment to reflect on your own posts — the ones laced with judgment, anger, and bitterness. If you’re going to throw stones, at least make sure you’re not standing in a glass house.

I also reject the notion that any of this qualifies as bullying. It’s called perspective. If this is bullying, the bar’s never been lower.

And if none of us, his friends, or multiple therapists can help, maybe ChatGPT is the answer — though he already seems to be questioning that too.

[Oakman]

On 5/31/2025 at 2:59 PM, lseactuary90 said:

I recently hired a masseur to come over for an erotic massage at my place. I also knew he escorts (he’s on RentMen) but contacted him for a massage on a different website hence it was a different rate also. Things flowed naturally - we ended up making out, grinding, and connecting beyond the massage itself. He was even down to top me (though it didn’t end up happening), and we ended up lying together, talking, and just being. It felt real. Comfortable. Honestly, it was the most “seen” I’ve felt by someone in NYC in a long time - definitely non-platonically.

At one point, while we were just lying together, he asked: “Why do you need to pay?”
I brushed it off. I wasn’t ready to unpack the reality of my dating life with him. The truth is: dating here has been non-existent for me. Literally zero dates. Hookups? Sure, but mostly disappointing - disconnected, drugged-out, disinterested, transactional. I’m more of a 1:1, slow, sensual kind of guy, and NYC’s scene feels like a conveyor belt of fast, flaky sex. Honestly, it’s been some of the worst sex of my life.

Instead of explaining all that, I just said: “It’s hard to find someone who can handle me.” He looked confused and said: “Someone tall, built, with a big dick like you? You’ll be fine.” But I don’t feel fine. That comment sat with me.

He also did go down on me, even though he identifies as straight. I didn’t overthink it in the moment, but it left me wondering.

I followed up a week later, and he was receptive. He messaged back quickly (again, rare in NYC), and was down to meet again. But then he said:
“No rush bro. But if I looked like you, I wouldn’t pay.”

That comment threw me. Not because I’m against paying as money isn’t the issue. What messed with my head is: what does it mean if the only way I’ve ever felt this kind of presence, softness, and intimacy is through a paid experience?

Was it him?
Was it just my starvation for connection finally getting fed?
Am I overthinking all of it?

I’ve never hired an escort before (just spa massages with HE's usually, although I have been topped there too sometimes lol) so I don’t know what’s “normal.” I do wonder if I should book someone else, maybe try a “boyfriend experience,” since I’ve never even come close to having a real relationship. Maybe I just need to get it out of my system.

Because here’s the thing:
In that space, with him, I melted.
I was soft, present, sensual, alive.
I liked who I was in that moment.
And that version of me doesn’t come out on Grindr, Feeld, Scruff, Hinge, Tinder or even at gay dancing or sex parties. Not even close. It was WAY better (in terms of that satisfaction and 'whole' feeling) than any therapy I've ever had also.

So I guess my question is:
Is it worth continuing down this road?
Will I be paying for intimacy forever?
And why did a paid interaction feel more real than all the “free” ones I’ve had?

Would appreciate any perspectives, especially from those who’ve navigated this before.

This is really the sort of thing a good psychotherapist can help with. He can be someone you can also pay to be real, open, and vulnerable with, but the outcome will be greater self awareness. 

[lseactuary90]

Just now, Oakman said:

This is really the sort of thing a good psychotherapist can help with. He can be someone you can also pay to be real, open, and vulnerable with, but the outcome will be greater self awareness. 

Yup I shared this with my current therapist... and he diverted me to talking about 'values'.

[timj]

On 5/31/2025 at 2:59 PM, lseactuary90 said:

I recently hired a masseur to come over for an erotic massage at my place. I also knew he escorts (he’s on RentMen) but contacted him for a massage on a different website hence it was a different rate also. Things flowed naturally - we ended up making out, grinding, and connecting beyond the massage itself. He was even down to top me (though it didn’t end up happening), and we ended up lying together, talking, and just being. It felt real. Comfortable. Honestly, it was the most “seen” I’ve felt by someone in NYC in a long time - definitely non-platonically.

At one point, while we were just lying together, he asked: “Why do you need to pay?”
I brushed it off. I wasn’t ready to unpack the reality of my dating life with him. The truth is: dating here has been non-existent for me. Literally zero dates. Hookups? Sure, but mostly disappointing - disconnected, drugged-out, disinterested, transactional. I’m more of a 1:1, slow, sensual kind of guy, and NYC’s scene feels like a conveyor belt of fast, flaky sex. Honestly, it’s been some of the worst sex of my life.

Instead of explaining all that, I just said: “It’s hard to find someone who can handle me.” He looked confused and said: “Someone tall, built, with a big dick like you? You’ll be fine.” But I don’t feel fine. That comment sat with me.

He also did go down on me, even though he identifies as straight. I didn’t overthink it in the moment, but it left me wondering.

I followed up a week later, and he was receptive. He messaged back quickly (again, rare in NYC), and was down to meet again. But then he said:
“No rush bro. But if I looked like you, I wouldn’t pay.”

That comment threw me. Not because I’m against paying as money isn’t the issue. What messed with my head is: what does it mean if the only way I’ve ever felt this kind of presence, softness, and intimacy is through a paid experience?

Was it him?
Was it just my starvation for connection finally getting fed?
Am I overthinking all of it?

I’ve never hired an escort before (just spa massages with HE's usually, although I have been topped there too sometimes lol) so I don’t know what’s “normal.” I do wonder if I should book someone else, maybe try a “boyfriend experience,” since I’ve never even come close to having a real relationship. Maybe I just need to get it out of my system.

Because here’s the thing:
In that space, with him, I melted.
I was soft, present, sensual, alive.
I liked who I was in that moment.
And that version of me doesn’t come out on Grindr, Feeld, Scruff, Hinge, Tinder or even at gay dancing or sex parties. Not even close. It was WAY better (in terms of that satisfaction and 'whole' feeling) than any therapy I've ever had also.

So I guess my question is:
Is it worth continuing down this road?
Will I be paying for intimacy forever?
And why did a paid interaction feel more real than all the “free” ones I’ve had?

Would appreciate any perspectives, especially from those who’ve navigated this before.

I’ve read through the myriad responses. I mostly don’t understand the largely-unhelpful and near-ire coming from some of the responders.

I’m in LA. But you sound soulful, present and open to me. I’m sure I’ll get a dissertation or two on why that’s psychosis or something. But for whatever it’s worth, and as someone looking for something real too, you sound like an amazing guy. I legitimately don’t care about your big dick, etc. I’m sure it’s great. But you sound like a smart, emotionally mature, kindhearted human being to me. Wish there were more like you.

[Oakman]

4 hours ago, lseactuary90 said:

Yup I shared this with my current therapist... and he diverted me to talking about 'values'.

I hook up a fair amount in SF/Oakland. I have about ten fuck buds, with varying frequencies of meetings. I occasionally try out new guys, and let older connections go when the spark has faded for one of us.
 

Occasionally I meet with a new guy who is emotionally vacant. But usually I am able to draw out emotional connection by being confident, vulnerable, and persistent in getting a guy to let loose. I typically try to get a sense of the other guy’s fantasies so I can see if we’re compatible. 
 

I don’t know if that’s helpful. It’s difficult to be vulnerable oneself if the other guy is guarded. 

[Thelatin]

11 hours ago, ApexNomad said:

maybe ChatGPT is the answer — though he already seems to be questioning that too.

I have used ChatGPT quite a bit for my own issues and have found it surprisingly helpful.  He should maybe give it a try. 

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

17 hours ago, lseactuary90 said:

I think the comment about the ecosystem made a lot of sense, because this problem literally goes away when I go to Mexico or Turkey for example, but unfortunately I just don't live there. 

You have the privilege to move.  You have the freedom to make a choice and move to Mexico or Turkey or Alabama if your heart desires.  Just apply for the necessary work visas, book an apartment and plane ticket and go!  You are very privileged to a be person with education and resources to be able to move almost anywhere in the world you want. Millions are desperate to leave those places and head to NYC, but you're privileged enough to be able to move the other direction and still be better off than 90% of the people there g that's what you want. 

But instead of making a decision to act and move, please don't throw another Pitty Party of "woe is me I live in NYC, my fate is sealed". Don't invite me to that party, I figuratively won't attend.

Edited June 4 by Vegas_Millennial

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

On 6/1/2025 at 2:43 AM, lseactuary90 said:

Being single is totally okay. What I am not ok with is going through life never experiencing intimacy of any kind or connection beyond platonic. 

Go on a date!  Find a guy in person, wearing clothes, and ask him to join your for a movie, or a ball game, or a drink at a comedy club, or visit an art museum, or whatever it is you like to do.  And promise yourself you won't kiss or get naked or talk about dick sizes or sexual positions.  Do this with several men.  After a half dozen, you may find someone who you look forward to seeing repeatedly. 

Stop using apps to meet men.

Stop only screening for tops/bottoms.

Stop referencing your dick size as an opening line (which is what happens when men find you on an app).

Keep doing the above 3 things, and you'll getting the same results you have been getting.

Edited June 4 by Vegas_Millennial

[ICTJOCK]

Interesting conversation,  thanks for taking the time to discuss.   As a provider,  I've had some very "real"  intimacy with my clients.   I think it is more about the connection between people than whether one pays or not.   I really make an effort to convey certain things during the time spent.   I think if a provider doesn't care about the experience of his client,  he shouldn't be an escort or provider.    I'd encourage you to consider exploring this.   Whether you pay or not is between both of you.   Don't set up expectations,  but enjoy the experience with an open mind.     You never know what you will find out there.   Be optimistic,  but realistic.

[lseactuary90]

6 hours ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

Go on a date!  Find a guy in person, wearing clothes, and ask him to join your for a movie, or a ball game, or a drink at a comedy club, or visit an art museum, or whatever it is you like to do.  And promise yourself you won't kiss or get naked or talk about dick sizes or sexual positions.  Do this with several men.  After a half dozen, you may find someone who you look forward to seeing repeatedly. 

Stop using apps to meet men.

Stop only screening for tops/bottoms.

Stop referencing your dick size as an opening line (which is what happens when men find you on an app).

Keep doing the above 3 things, and you'll getting the same results you have been getting.

I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or not, but this the crux of my issues. No one seems to date me. I get hookups, but not dates. If I could date someone, and meet them before hooking up, I don't think I would be having this discussion. 

You say stop using apps to meet men. But men do not 'meet' me otherwise. Parties, etc all also lead to nothing.

You say stop only screening for tops/bottoms. I don't. I only filter radius and even that is pretty broad. 

You say stop referencing dick size. I don't. I only quoted what the masseur said, not expecting it to blow up as it did in the thread.

[lseactuary90]

6 hours ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

You have the privilege to move.  You have the freedom to make a choice and move to Mexico or Turkey or Alabama if your heart desires.  Just apply for the necessary work visas, book an apartment and plane ticket and go!  You are very privileged to a be person with education and resources to be able to move almost anywhere in the world you want. Millions are desperate to leave those places and head to NYC, but you're privileged enough to be able to move the other direction and still be better off than 90% of the people there g that's what you want. 

But instead of making a decision to act and move, please don't throw another Pitty Party of "woe is me I live in NYC, my fate is sealed". Don't invite me to that party, I figuratively won't attend.

I don't want to be someone who 'jumps ship' when things get tough, without working through whatever it is that is not working. IMO the best time to leave is when you feel you have nothing left to learn in the place, not when things are tough and you are probably growing/evolving in some way. 

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

3 hours ago, lseactuary90 said:

You say stop using apps to meet men. But men do not 'meet' me otherwise. Parties, etc all also lead to nothing.

Walk up and ask HIM.  Even if 99 say No, 1 will say Yes.  Don't wait to be pursued.  The Constitution guarantees every citizen the right to Pursuit of Happiness, but you must do the pursuing!

3 hours ago, lseactuary90 said:

I get hookups, but not dates.

This used to happen to me, too.  Men on apps would be begging to come over and have sex with me.  I finally decided to make my standard reply: "I'll be at XX bar tomorrow night at 10pm, if you want to meet me there".  9 out of 10 flaked.  But 1 showed up... And that's a date.  Have the will power to keep your legs closed until after meeting him in public first.  The 1 out of 10, or 1 out of 100, who show up is what is it is.  In the meantime, you're out of the house and off your telephone enjoying the wonderful city in which you live.

Edited June 5 by Vegas_Millennial

[+ KensingtonHomo]

14 hours ago, lseactuary90 said:

I don't want to be someone who 'jumps ship' when things get tough, without working through whatever it is that is not working. IMO the best time to leave is when you feel you have nothing left to learn in the place, not when things are tough and you are probably growing/evolving in some way. 

I'm not sure if it's "jumping ship." If you want an environment where dating is easier as a gay man, moving to a city where the culture is less toxic and superficial makes sense. I met my husband before apps and I feel for anyone trying to date now. The culture looks pretty hostile. My single friends of a similar age have similar complaints. 

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

14 minutes ago, KensingtonHomo said:

I met my husband before apps and I feel for anyone trying to date now. The culture looks pretty hostile. My single friends of a similar age have similar complaints. 

I notice that my younger friends and colleagues who are happiest, whether single or married and with kids or without, gave one thing in common: No social media presence and aren't on any meetup/hookup apps.  It can still be done today.  One just needs the willpower to stop using them and go out and live in the real world again.

[pubic_assistance]

22 minutes ago, KensingtonHomo said:

The culture looks pretty hostile. My single friends of a similar age have similar complaints. 

Everyone I know who's young and single and gay living in NYC says dating is near impossible here. Most blame it on the hook-up culture, which has grown exponentially with the ease of meeting from apps. "Anonymity" is now a desirable feature of online hook ups that wraps the whole experience into an immediate environment of emotional emptiness. Share two photos / meet / fuck / leave.  Most guys don't even share their name anymore, let alone open up their souls to a vulnerability that begs to see if their partner is nurturing enough to hang on to... None of these young guys ever wants someone to see who they really are. It disrupts the glamor of their Instagram feed.

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

34 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

Most guys don't even share their name anymore, let alone open up their souls to a vulnerability that begs to see if their partner is nurturing enough to hang on to...

I take this to heart.

When I meet someone, I like to open up every part of my body to him 😈 

[AtticusBK]

2 hours ago, KensingtonHomo said:

I met my husband before apps and I feel for anyone trying to date now. The culture looks pretty hostile. My single friends of a similar age have similar complaints. 

Totally agree — met my partner in 2002, and can’t imagine trying to date in NYC (or any other major US city) now. Sounds like a nitemare, unless you’re just looking for sex. But I’ve seen or heard so many similar complaints that it seems like there are many guys out there looking for more. How you all find each other, I don’t personally know, but this isn’t an isolated situation.

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

29 minutes ago, AtticusBK said:

Sounds like a nitemare, unless you’re just looking for sex

But even sex was easier before the hookup apps.  Men went to a bar, a gym, a park, or a party and meet someone and fucked.  They didn't have the luxury to wait around for hours scrolling through headless torsos to find the perfect guy made to order, so they took what was available in front of them and had lots of sex with little effort arranging it 

I like to take a balanced approach to technology and to hiring.  When I visit New York City for a week, I turn on an app first thing in the morning to see if someone in the neighborhood is horny and wants to swing by my hotel room in his way to work, or wants to swing by on his way home from work.  Then I turn off the app and leave it off for the rest of the day.  Then I go out and enjoy my day sight seeing.  I might go to 2 or 3 sex events throughout the week at the Lodge for some random casual sex in public.  I usually have a great time at about 1/3 of them.  Every other day I hire a massuer for the afternoon for relief from all the walking and subway stairs.  In the evening, I'll visit a bar for showtunes and lap dancing men.  I usually meet a few  local guys and strike up a conversation and arrange for a date later in the week.  And about every 3rd night I hire an escort from RentMen for the quality talent.

I find this approach to be balanced in terms of using technology (hookup app, RentMen), but also meeting in person (sex party during the day, bars in the evening) and a balance of hiring (escorts, massage, and lap dances) and hookup (the app) and dates (men I meet at the bar and arrange to meet again later if I'm interested).

Even though I'm only in NYC for about 1 or 2 weeks each year, I have built up a nice little group of friends and fuck buddies with whom I socialize throughout the year and meet when they come visit me in Las Vegas.  Some of them I've dated and called "boyfriend", and others were casual.  I find this balanced approach very fulfilling.

[lseactuary90]

9 hours ago, moonlight said:

I don't think it's just NYC and it's not even just gay people. My 30s straight friends here on the west coast are having similar problems, and pretty much the only successful ones find their partners in real life, not on apps. So I would definitely second the suggestion to do whatever you can to find men in real life. Of course there are some exceptions but the app situation does seem bleak. Though as gay men, I think we need to rely more on apps since "gay" isn't the default in real life and gay physical spaces are less prominent now. That might actually be one benefit of NYC compared to other cities...

Another factor -- dating gets a lot harder in your 30s for everyone. Many of the men who really wanted a partner have found one. And the ones who are single often have some baggage that may make them hesitant to commit. 

So I think it's true that the circumstances are difficult. So focus on what you can change yourself including examining your thoughts, behaviors, even your personality to try to identify things that may be holding you back and try to change what you can. Like any complex problem, there are many factors involved, some you can change and some you can't. Do what you can.

The question I wonder is where are they meeting their partner 'in real life' because a lot of people I speak to are still meeting on apps, IG, or the like. They may connect again in person (through a party, mutual friend etc) but I've rarely head the story 'oh we met at a sports club' (unless both were there for like 5+ years) so it seems strange. I'm more than open to going to in person places and connecting, but people still flake, even harder than apps tbh. 

I would correct that statement to say 'many who wanted a partner found one'. A partner is not something on a shelf you check out. I always wanted a partner and never found one, and I know dozens of men who also didn't. Just because you 'wanted something' doesn't mean it automatically happens. It depends on other factors like where you live, supply/demand, and we all know the gay racism and 'hierarchies' in certain places that still exist too.

Also, countless people I know are unhappy/settled in relationships but can't 'get out' and have no incentive (except for those singles you mentioned, who agree, carry baggage). This makes it even harder for someone like me, who always wanted a partner but never found one (wasn't even given a chance) and now I find myself in this situation.

Just seems unfair, hence the title of this thread i.e. do I have to keep paying basically because I'm not sure what else I can even do at this stage to get the consistent kind of intimacy I am looking for. 

Edited June 6 by lseactuary90

[pubic_assistance]

11 hours ago, moonlight said:

gay physical spaces are less prominent now. That might actually be one benefit of NYC compared to other cities...

I haven't set foot in a gay bar since the 90s. I get hit-on all the time in NYC. Nobody seems to rely on "gay physical spaces" here. I don't doubt those are still important in small towns or states like Kentucky or Arkansas....but I have never felt unsafe cruising guys in public, while standing in most any of the major cities in the US. 

The rule of thumb has always been that straight guys may look at you once, but if hes looking back again...he ain't straight..

Edited June 6 by pubic_assistance
spelling

[Peter Eater]

On 5/31/2025 at 3:45 PM, lseactuary90 said:

I'm not 'paying for sex' though, I'm paying for presence/intimacy etc which is lacking elsewhere. They are different. 

Couldn’t read through six pages of comments, so forgive me if this has been said:

You do not pay an escort for sex. You pay an escort to leave after sex. Truth.

Advice: That masseur who made you melt? Ask him out on a date. Not for an appointment, but for a date. At the end of the date, do not have sex, but ask him for a second date in a few days. And kiss him goodbye.