RIP Pope Francis

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

4 hours ago, marylander1940 said:

I am a big fan of Jesuits as teachers, and I admire their actions in the missions in South America and California but I don't agree much with how they see poverty as something to be valued. 

I just finished reading a great book about Michaelangelo's painting of the Sistine Chapel.  After it was finished, the Pope wanted Michelangelo to go back up and add gold leaf throughout the fresco.  Michaelangelo's response was that every person on that ceiling was poor in life, so they shall still be celebrated and rememberred as poor.

Jesus said it is easier for a camel to be pushed through the eye of a needle than for the wealthy to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

[marylander1940]

1 minute ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

I just finished reading a great book about Michaelangelo's painting of the Sistine Chapel.  After it was finished, the Pope wanted Michelangelo to go back up and add gold leaf throughout the fresco.  Michaelangelo's response was that every person on that ceiling was poor in life, so they shall still be celebrated and rememberred as poor.

Jesus said it is easier for a camel to be pushed through the eye of a needle than for the wealthy to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

He said many things; some make sense while others don't. Many are taken out of context or  mistranslated from his language Aramaic. 

Do you feel guilty because of flying first class and being able to hire escorts? I don't. 

Back to subject:

He was a great Pope and certainly a trailblazer by all means, time will tell if his legacy remains and thrives or is forgotten.

I hope the Filippino Cardinal Luis Antonio Tagle is his successor but as we all know the favorites are very unlikely to win. 

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

1 minute ago, marylander1940 said:

Do you feel guilty because of flying first class and being able to hire escorts? I don't. 

Me neither.  When I hire an escort, it's to experience heaven on earth and not in the afterlife 😉 

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

The funeral is scheduled for Saturday: 

Pope Francis funeral set for April 26 at St. Peter’s Square; burial at St. Mary Major Basilica | Catholic News Agency

WWW.CATHOLICNEWSAGENCY.COM

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In accordance with his personal wishes, Pope Francis will not be buried in the Vatican grottoes but instead at...

 

 

[marylander1940]

2 minutes ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

The funeral is scheduled for Saturday: 

Pope Francis funeral set for April 26 at St. Peter’s Square; burial at St. Mary Major Basilica | Catholic News Agency

WWW.CATHOLICNEWSAGENCY.COM

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In accordance with his personal wishes, Pope Francis will not be buried in the Vatican grottoes but instead at...

 

 

From an article:

Here's a more detailed breakdown of the differences:

 

Burial:

• Single coffin:

  Pope Francis will be buried in a simple wooden coffin lined with zinc, instead of the traditional three coffins of cypress, lead, and oak. 

   
• Burial location:

  He will be buried in the Basilica of St. Mary Major in Rome, not in the Vatican grottoes. 

   
• No catafalque:

  His body will not be displayed on a raised platform, as is traditional, but will instead be placed in an open coffin. 

   
• No tiara:

  The traditional papal tiara will not be displayed. 

   

Funeral Rites:

• Simplified liturgy:

  The funeral Mass will emphasize scripture and simplicity, with fewer traditional royal flourishes. 

   
• Updated prayers and Scripture readings:

  The prayers and Scripture readings will be updated to reflect revised translations. 

   
• Emphasis on "pastor and disciple":

  The funeral will emphasize Pope Francis's role as a shepherd and disciple of Christ, rather than a powerful figure. 

   

Other Changes:

• No closing ceremony: There will be no closing ceremony for the coffin, as it is placed in the tomb. 
   
• No double vigil: There will only be one vigil, with the pope already in the coffin. 
   
• Changes to the order of the rites: Some steps in the traditional funeral rites have been altered, such as the timing of the public viewing and the declaration of death. 

[jeezifonly]

Pope Peggy supports the election of Cardinal Benitez.

[marylander1940]

 

[BSR]

4 hours ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

Answer: Because it would go against their religion. 

My condolences go out to the Catholic community in this time of loss.  I will be at the Vatican later next month, and it will be moving to see the respect of the pilgrims who come to Rome to pay their tribute.

I thought that the rule that only men can become priests was an ex cathedra declaration, but Chat GPT says it technically isn’t yet is still considered an infallible teaching.  Don’t ask me how that works.

My Italian classmate tells me that Rome is insane because 2025 is a Jubilee year.  Rome is crowded enough in a regular year, I can’t imagine how jam-packed it must be this year.  Hopefully it’s not too bad when you go.

[Cooper]

Administrator’s Message

Gentlemen, Some of you are taking this thread off-topic. It’s not about the past teachings of the Catholic Church but of the passing of a Pope. Please! Stay on topic. Also, we’ve received a few reports on this thread. We are a diverse community. What one might find funny, others see it as offensive and a violation of our Guideline on “no religion”.  Please be respectful. 🙏

[dutchal]

As might be expected in the 21st Century, there is an X site with an algorithm driven "Papability Index":  https://x.com/pope_predictor

 

[Peter Eater]

11 hours ago, marylander1940 said:

Mass used to be in Latin, now it's in the local language. 

 Dropping Latin was an enormous change (some would say “mistake”), because it removed mystery from the ceremonial core. Out there in the pews, folks had been watching a magic show, directed by shamans, and suddenly they were just following along as a guy they knew chatted. Pope Francis understood the significance of the shift, I think, given his intent to be “the people’s pope” (especially following one who was sometimes called “Broadway Benedict.”)

In accordance with his personal wishes, Francis will not be buried in the Vatican grottoes but instead at the Basilica of St. Mary Major, a church he visited more than 100 times during his papacy, before and after international trips, in devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary. Bernini is also buried there, so we know Francis had good taste. 

Pope Francis Lies in State in Open Casket at St. Peter's Basilica as Catholics Line Up to Pay Their Respects

PEOPLE.COM

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Mourners are gathering to pay their respects to Pope Francis, who died earlier this week and is now lying in state in an open casket at St. Peter's...

 

 

Edited April 24 by Peter Eater

[Peter Eater]

One of his most important moves: Francis’ landmark 184-page climate change encyclical, “Laudato Si: On Care for Our Common Home,” served as a powerful call to action. Francis preached urgency and compassion. He asked the world’s 1.3 billion Catholics to open their eyes to the connections between the climate crisis, poverty and selfishness. 

[+ Lucky]

On 4/22/2025 at 3:23 AM, Cooper said:

The Oscar nominated movie “Conclave”  came out around the time Pope Francis became seriously ill. The movie did a wonderful job in depicting the traditions that are followed once a Pope passes. 

I finally watched it today and enjoyed it. Lots of intrigue. I'll bet the real conclave is just as treacherous.

[+ José Soplanucas]

1 hour ago, Lucky said:

I finally watched it today and enjoyed it. Lots of intrigue. I'll bet the real conclave is just as treacherous.

Are we on synch? I finished 30 minutes ago. I liked it a lot.

I've been criticizing the dark side of the Catholic Church and of religion for decades now. This movie hit me like a reminder of the other side. There are many men and women who live the religious experience with depth and sincerity. Now that I am growing older I am starting to be more appreciative of them.

[BSR]

On 4/22/2025 at 4:23 PM, José Soplanucas said:

Part of his wisdom is leaving a Collegium Cardinalium with 70% of Cardinals supportive of his policies. 

There is a very strong chance the next pope will be less progressive than Bergoglio, but there is also a very strong chance he will not undo his reforms.

Hmm, I’ve read different, that even though Pope Francis chose the majority of voting cardinals, they are not necessarily as progressive as he was.  But hey, I can’t vouch for my source, just some guy who follows the Vatican with great interest.

In any case, we won’t know until we know.  The voting cardinals are obliged to secrecy about the voting process, and any cardinal caught leaking is automatically excommunicated.  

As for the rule that only cardinals less than 80yo can vote, the rule is simply practical.  Since a number of cardinals have to travel quite a distance to Rome, the rule was established and re-approved several times to spare very elderly cardinals the hardship.

[+ José Soplanucas]

26 minutes ago, BSR said:

Hmm, I’ve read different, that even though Pope Francis chose the majority of voting cardinals, they are not necessarily as progressive as he was.  But hey, I can’t vouch for my source, just some guy who follows the Vatican with great interest.

 

When I said "supportive of his policies" I did not mean to"as progressive as he was". I bet you some are less and some more progressive than he was.

Bottom line, you are right on one thing. Time will tell.

[kingsley88]

I recently just watched CONCLAVE and that was some great acting! I liked how its themes also dealt with idea of certainty/doubt amongst the faithfuls, even at the high level of Cardinal. Parts of the story reminded me of the movie Doubt starring Meryl Streep. 

 

[Peter Eater]

30 minutes ago, BSR said:

As for the rule that only cardinals less than 80yo can vote, the rule is simply practical.  Since a number of cardinals have to travel quite a distance to Rome, the rule was established and re-approved several times to spare very elderly cardinals the hardship.

Well, no. Cardinals travel to Rome with regularity for many functions, none more important than this one. Nor was the under-80 rule meant to reduce senility as a voting risk. Pope Paul VI introduced the rule to bust-up a sclerotic logjam of Italian conservatives in the College of Cardinals, increasing the chances for the next Pope to be non‐Italian and, possibly, a progressive. The Church needed to keep up with the changing world.

[+ José Soplanucas]

4 hours ago, kingsley88 said:

I recently just watched CONCLAVE and that was some great acting! I liked how its themes also dealt with idea of certainty/doubt amongst the faithfuls, even at the high level of Cardinal. Parts of the story reminded me of the movie Doubt starring Meryl Streep. 

 

If you are interested in the topic of uncertainty vs faith, and the ethical dilemmas raised by the lack of faith in a priest, you may enjoy reading one of my favorite short novels, by Miguel de Unamuno, "San Manuel Bueno, Mártir". I read it in the original Spanish and cannot recommend a good translation, but I would assume there should be good ones as this is a major classic on Spanish Literature. 

Reading this book was one of the experiences that helped me to be more tolerant and understanding of the religious experience.

Edited April 25 by José Soplanucas

[dutchal]

There was a very interesting aspect of Pope Francis's funeral.   The usual Catholic procedure is for the homily after the Gospel to be a reflection on the ceremony's Scripture readings, with any eulogy reserved for after Communion.  Instead, the celebrant, the Italian Cardinal Re, Dean of the College of Cardinals, briefly mentioned the Gospel reading but otherwise forewent the traditional homily and delivered what was clearly a eulogy.  Of perhaps even greater interest is what he had to say.  He was made Cardinal by JPII and is not considered a progressive, but the eulogy was clearly one of deep admiration, delivered with remarkable energy considering he is 91.  A man of his experience and rank, standing there in front of the world, makes his choices with deliberation.  While he is too old to participate in the conclave, he will be participating in the daily meetings the cardinals are having between now and when the conclave starts.  His homily is being interpreted by some as his own endorsement of a choice to continue Francis's approach to the Papacy.  Here's link to the official English translation.

https://www.ncregister.com/commentaries/pope-francis-funeral-full-text-homily-cardinal-re

[+ José Soplanucas]

59 minutes ago, dutchal said:

There was a very interesting aspect of Pope Francis's funeral.   The usual Catholic procedure is for the homily after the Gospel to be a reflection on the ceremony's Scripture readings, with any eulogy reserved for after Communion.  Instead, the celebrant, the Italian Cardinal Re, Dean of the College of Cardinals, briefly mentioned the Gospel reading but otherwise forewent the traditional homily and delivered what was clearly a eulogy.  Of perhaps even greater interest is what he had to say.  He was made Cardinal by JPII and is not considered a progressive, but the eulogy was clearly one of deep admiration, delivered with remarkable energy considering he is 91.  A man of his experience and rank, standing there in front of the world, makes his choices with deliberation.  While he is too old to participate in the conclave, he will be participating in the daily meetings the cardinals are having between now and when the conclave starts.  His homily is being interpreted by some as his own endorsement of a choice to continue Francis's approach to the Papacy.  Here's link to the official English translation.

https://www.ncregister.com/commentaries/pope-francis-funeral-full-text-homily-cardinal-re

I am not 100% sure, but I think Re will be in the Conclave despite his age.

[dutchal]

8 minutes ago, José Soplanucas said:

I am not 100% sure, but I think Re will be in the Conclave despite his age.

FWIW, the NYTimes says he won't be attending:  https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/22/world/europe/cardinal-giovanni-battista-re-pope-francis-funeral-dean.html

[TruthBTold]

If you were not able to watch Pope Francis' funeral, this is a portrait of Sister Genevieve, a good friend of his for many years.  For me, it spoke to grief.

[Phlmuscle]

There's a new movie on Amazon Prime called "Conclave". Very timely. I really enjoyed it, and the ending was a big surprise.  Didn't expect it. Highly recommended.

[CuriousByNature]

11 hours ago, Phlmuscle said:

There's a new movie on Amazon Prime called "Conclave". Very timely. I really enjoyed it, and the ending was a big surprise.  Didn't expect it. Highly recommended.

I saw it in the theatres - awesome film.  The Two Popes (2019) was also quite good.