Bring back the 8pm curtain!

[ShortCutie7]

This trend of having shows start at 7pm is going too far… it was fine when it was only Tuesday nights, but I’m now seeing even Wednesday and Friday night shows starting at 7 or 7:30!  While I understand and appreciate the benefits of an early start time, it would be nice to be able to leave work on time and have a non-rushed dinner before going to the theatre.

[Manhattan]

For the most part Broadway caters to the tourist crowd, and if you're in NYC on family vacation you can eat at Bubba Gump at 5:00, see Wicked at 7:00, and still have time for the M&M store. 

I miss the Times Square of the 1980s. 

I didn't mind high crime rates and abandoned buildings when rent was cheap, gay bars were plentiful, and New York was a city for adults. 

[jeezifonly]

If it’s a show (musical 3hrs long) geared to families, the earlier start on weeknights sell better. Staggered times around the district ease traffic/sidewalk congestion and more evenly distribute dinner service at restaurants. In London, one show may start at 7:30, another at 7:45, another at 8:10…

In LA, mid-week matinees are a bust. So, 2shows on Sat and Sun. The 2nd Sunday show has to start at 6:30 or it won’t sell. 
8:00 looks good on posters, but may have a negative impact on attendance. All comes down to money. 
 

[+ ApexNomad]

When I saw the original Les Miz, that clocked in at 3 hours 15 min. I would have appreciated a 7pm start time back then. Producers would later trim the show under 3 hours and push the start time to 7:30, but that was purely for economic reasons - cost them millions over the years to pay the crew, stagehands, etc. in overtime.

[ShortCutie7]

Yep, of course I understand very long shows (and operas) starting at 7:30pm, but I don’t think 7pm is a convenient start time on a weeknight for a working adult (who is not a tourist, on vacation, etc).  
I do love the idea of more irregular start times on weekends (especially Sunday) and wish more shows in NYC did that!

[jeezifonly]

4 hours ago, ShortCutie7 said:

Yep, of course I understand very long shows (and operas) starting at 7:30pm, but I don’t think 7pm is a convenient start time on a weeknight for a working adult (who is not a tourist, on vacation, etc).  
I do love the idea of more irregular start times on weekends (especially Sunday) and wish more shows in NYC did that!

Want to make it heard? Go to the box office at the theatre, ask for 6 seats for “this evening’s performance”. Take up union worker’s time with seat selection, even options over several weeknight performances, then asking about dividing into to 2 credit cards, then cancel the transaction when they confirm a curtain that is not 8:00. 

That is how the message is conveyed if you really want to see it change. 

[ShortCutie7]

1 hour ago, jeezifonly said:

Want to make it heard? Go to the box office at the theatre, ask for 6 seats for “this evening’s performance”. Take up union worker’s time with seat selection, even options over several weeknight performances, then asking about dividing into to 2 credit cards, then cancel the transaction when they confirm a curtain that is not 8:00. 

That is how the message is conveyed if you really want to see it change. 

As someone who used to work for a theatre ticket company, I would never do that to the poor box office attendant 😂

If the 7pm shows are genuinely selling better, that’s what matters… I just can’t imagine that if it’s not tourist season and the show isn’t geared towards families, it’s doing anything for sales, and I can’t fathom why adult-geared, standard-length shows like “Book of Mormon” and “Hadestown” have their Friday night (in January and February) shows at 7pm.  This post was actually brought on by my seeing a Friday night 7pm performance of Book or Mormon a couple weeks ago… I loved the show but was annoyed that I didn’t have time to eat dinner before it.

To go a bit back in time with my personal experience, part of the joy of going to the theatre as a child was getting to eat in a nice restaurant before the show, and then getting home late and feeling sophisticated watching David Letterman.  Fast forward to when I had recently graduated college and was working as a vendor in theatres, the Tuesday 7pm curtain was just starting to become a “thing” and a solid 20% of Tuesday night audiences would filter in between 7:45 and 8 because they didn’t think to check the start time on their tickets.

[jeezifonly]

15 hours ago, ShortCutie7 said:

As someone who used to work for a theatre ticket company, I would never do that to the poor box office attendant 😂

 

The box office attendant does not make commission. Taking up their time A) keeps them employed, and B) is the only way to let mgmt know of your specific objection to the schedule. They’ll complain up the chain in-house. Ticket agents/brokers  have no mechanism for customer complaint. Buy the ticket or not, period. 
The nostalgic element to your preference is valid. But, if 90% of seats sell at the highest price they can get for the schedule they offer, producers truly don’t care why a few do not. 

ps: many IATSE contracts have penalties after 12midnight irrespective of performance length, start/end time. The crew’s nightly post-show work can inch over that limit if it’s a long show beginning at 8, or even 7:30. 
 

[+ nycman]

Personally, I hate 7 PM or 7:30 PM curtains. You basically have to have dinner around 5 PM, which is not in my vocabulary. With an 8PM curtain, you can do pre-theater dinner at 6 o’clock or 6:30 PM and still make the 8 PM curtain pretty easily. Even that I didn’t love, but it was a “New York thing“ and we all did it. I imagine that 7 PM start times have had a negative impact on the restaurants in and around Times Square. Then again, who the fuck can afford dinner and a show in this economy? 

[ShortCutie7]

1 hour ago, nycman said:

Personally, I hate 7 PM or 7:30 PM curtains. You basically have to have dinner around 5 PM, which is not in my vocabulary. With an 8PM curtain, you can do pre-theater dinner at 6 o’clock or 6:30 PM and still make the 8 PM curtain pretty easily. Even that I didn’t love, but it was a “New York thing“ and we all did it. I imagine that 7 PM start times have had a negative impact on the restaurants in and around Times Square. Then again, who the fuck can afford dinner and a show in this economy? 

Exactly!!  Who wants dinner at 5pm, even if it is feasible? 

Historically, even 8pm is early for an evening show to start (though that was the start time I grew up with). The term “eleven o-clock number” exists because those songs occurred at 11pm.

5 hours ago, jeezifonly said:

The box office attendant does not make commission. Taking up their time A) keeps them employed, and B) is the only way to let mgmt know of your specific objection to the schedule. They’ll complain up the chain in-house. Ticket agents/brokers  have no mechanism for customer complaint. Buy the ticket or not, period. 
The nostalgic element to your preference is valid. But, if 90% of seats sell at the highest price they can get for the schedule they offer, producers truly don’t care why a few do not. 

ps: many IATSE contracts have penalties after 12midnight irrespective of performance length, start/end time. The crew’s nightly post-show work can inch over that limit if it’s a long show beginning at 8, or even 7:30. 
 

All fair points!

[mike carey]

1 hour ago, ShortCutie7 said:

Exactly!!  Who wants dinner at 5pm, even if it is feasible? 

What you said, perhaps lunch at 5pm followed by the show and then dinner.

What? Only McDonalds is open at that hour, you say?

[ShortCutie7]

2 minutes ago, mike carey said:

What you said, perhaps lunch at 5pm followed by the show and then dinner.

What? Only McDonalds open at that hour?

Unfortunately the pandemic ruined late-night dining in NYC… places that used to be open 24 hours now close at 9 or 10pm.

[+ ApexNomad]

Who wants dinner at 5pm? Me! Bc I’m old. 

[Danny-Darko]

3 hours ago, ShortCutie7 said:

Unfortunately the pandemic ruined late-night dining in NYC… places that used to be open 24 hours now close at 9 or 10pm.

Sadly, I've seen this has been the case everywhere, not only in NY. 

[Ali Gator]

12 hours ago, ShortCutie7 said:

Unfortunately the pandemic ruined late-night dining in NYC… places that used to be open 24 hours now close at 9 or 10pm.

I think it's more of a generational change.

As 'the silent generation' die off, and 'boomers' and 'Xers' age, the younger generations are taking over - Millennials and Zoomers, neither which the majority enjoy being 'out' for the night and socializing. That's not their life. Don't believe me ? Just ask anyone 20 - 45. Their idea of 'date night' is not going to the theater and having a nice dinner, but staying home with their partner, watching Netflix and ordering from GrubHub. That is why nothing stays open past 9 in any city any more. That's why so many movie theaters have closed. That's why so many restaurants have closed. (Grubhub to-go orders do not keep a restaurant in business - it's the bar and alcohol sales.) 

[d.anders]

16 hours ago, nycman said:

Personally, I hate 7 PM or 7:30 PM curtains. You basically have to have dinner around 5 PM, which is not in my vocabulary.

It was never in my vocabulary either. Then I tried a small snack before theater (so my stomach would not growl), and I really enjoyed my small snack with a cocktail after the show. I can't afford to go to the theater very often, so once in awhile it seems little problem to adapt and enjoy the upside. I actually enjoy eating more smaller meals. I'm surprised more shows don't have issues with the fluctuating start times. Customers really have to pay attention now, otherwise they might as well throw their expensive tickets away when they show up an hour late. I'm also surprised the theater producers got the unions to agree on new start times. Maybe union members enjoy getting home earlier?

[ShortCutie7]

1 hour ago, Ali Gator said:

I think it's more of a generational change.

As 'the silent generation' die off, and 'boomers' and 'Xers' age, the younger generations are taking over - Millennials and Zoomers, neither which the majority enjoy being 'out' for the night and socializing. That's not their life. Don't believe me ? Just ask anyone 20 - 45. Their idea of 'date night' is not going to the theater and having a nice dinner, but staying home with their partner, watching Netflix and ordering from GrubHub. That is why nothing stays open past 9 in any city any more. That's why so many movie theaters have closed. That's why so many restaurants have closed. (Grubhub to-go orders do not keep a restaurant in business - it's the bar and alcohol sales.) 

I’m in the middle of that age range lol.  I don’t generally like to eat late but sometimes if I get out of work late and then have an a show (or errands etc), I have no other choice.

8 minutes ago, d.anders said:

It was never in my vocabulary either. Then I tried a small snack before theater (so my stomach would not growl), and I really enjoyed my small snack with a cocktail after the show. I can't afford to go to the theater very often, so once in awhile it seems little problem to adapt and enjoy the upside. I actually enjoy eating more smaller meals. I'm surprised more shows don't have issues with the fluctuating start times. Customers really have to pay attention now, otherwise they might as well throw their expensive tickets away when they show up an hour late. I'm also surprised the theater producers got the unions to agree on new start times. Maybe union members enjoy getting home earlier?

There were definitely issues with the fluctuating start times when they started!  I do think customers are used to it now and pay more attention.  And yes,I’m sure the union members with families etc do prefer getting out earlier.

[+ RyanDean]

Theatre producers are very alert to the fact that "commuter" theatregoers (those who live beyond NYC in other parts of NY or in NJ/CT) have simply not returned to their pre-pandemic theatregoing habits. Moreover, the periodic surveys that they're constantly sending out have confirmed that those theatregoers are less inclined to choose a show that has a later start time or longer running time that will require them to take a later train/bus.

So they're not only thinking about NYers or tourists, but also those dreaded bridge/tunnel/burb-dwellers (like me) who have historically made up a substantial subset of the regular ticket-buying audience...

As for me, I love a 7/730 curtain as much as I love an 8pm curtain. I also love an 830pm curtain and a 5pm curtain. I love a 2pm matinee as much as I love a 1pm or a 3pm matinee -- whether on Saturday, Sunday, Wednesday or even Thursday. I just wish there was a theatre listing service that allowed you to sort the available options by curtain-time...

Edited February 9 by RyanDean

[ShortCutie7]

1 hour ago, RyanDean said:

Theatre producers are very alert to the fact that "commuter" theatregoers (those who live beyond NYC in other parts of NY or in NJ/CT) have simply not returned to their pre-pandemic theatregoing habits. Moreover, the periodic surveys that they're constantly sending out have confirmed that those theatregoers are less inclined to choose a show that has a later start time or longer running time that will require them to take a later train/bus.

So they're not only thinking about NYers or tourists, but also those dreaded bridge/tunnel/burb-dwellers (like me) who have historically made up a substantial subset of the regular ticket-buying audience...

As for me, I love a 7/730 curtain as much as I love an 8pm curtain. I also love an 830pm curtain and a 5pm curtain. I love a 2pm matinee as much as I love a 1pm or a 3pm matinee -- whether on Saturday, Sunday, Wednesday or even Thursday. I just wish there was a theatre listing service that allowed you to sort the available options by curtain-time...

I get that, but the “bridge and tunnel” audience members would likely not be seeing a show on a weeknight, anyway, since they would not be able to make it into midtown on time for an evening curtain (unless they already work in Manhattan, which is exactly the/my situation I’m writing about).

[+ RyanDean]

35 minutes ago, ShortCutie7 said:

...since they would not be able to make it into midtown on time for an evening curtain (unless they already work in Manhattan, which is exactly the/my situation I’m writing about).

I think you misunderstand the notion of "commuter"...  Plenty of theatregoers live in the great beyond while trekking in to work in the city. As for me, I'm in the city 2-3x a week on weekdays for work or other appointments and, when deciding whether to catch a show or just head home, an earlier curtain time makes a big difference. I can also attest to the many playbills I routinely see in the hands and pockets of folks waiting to board the 10pm trains back to Jersey...

[ShortCutie7]

16 minutes ago, RyanDean said:

I think you misunderstand the notion of "commuter"...  Plenty of theatregoers live in the great beyond while trekking in to work in the city. As for me, I'm in the city 2-3x a week on weekdays for work or other appointments and, when deciding whether to catch a show or just head home, an earlier curtain time makes a big difference. I can also attest to the many playbills I routinely see in the hands and pockets of folks waiting to board the 10pm trains back to Jersey...

I don’t misunderstand; I am a commuter myself and am writing specifically about us commuters!  My commute between South Brooklyn and Chelsea/lower midtown often takes longer than my friends’ commutes who live in Jersey etc.  By the time I get out of work (usually between 5:45 and 6), it’s too late to comfortably eat dinner and make a 7pm curtain.  For my personal commute, the end time doesn’t really make a difference since the Express Busses (a misnomer lol) I take don’t actually run on the schedule they’re supposed to, so I just have to wait for one to come whether it’s at 9:30pm or 11pm.  But I do understand that NJT and LIRR do generally run on schedule and commuters prefer to take a specific train.

[+ RyanDean]

One point of possible relevance: in the reported summaries I've read of the most recent demographic report from the BroadwayLeague, it doesn't appear that they sort the databy borough, esp re theatregoing habits of folks in NYC. So perhaps the producers are overcorrecting for tri-state commuters rather than those from boroughs other than Manhattan. 

[ShortCutie7]

8 minutes ago, RyanDean said:

One point of possible relevance: in the reported summaries I've read of the most recent demographic report from the BroadwayLeague, it doesn't appear that they sort the databy borough, esp re theatregoing habits of folks in NYC. So perhaps the producers are overcorrecting for tri-state commuters rather than those from boroughs other than Manhattan. 

Yes, that would make sense!  Commuting between boroughs has a very different set of challenges than commuting from outside of NYC.  Even pre-pandemic when I commuted via subway, I preferred later curtain times so I had more time before the show, and more time to get there since I’m less concerned about getting home late (which I inherently already am by virtue of attending an evening performance) than being late to a show..

[BuffaloKyle]

I was curious what time the theater in Buffalo has their performances as I know my parents are going to see a show with an 8pm curtain on a Saturday. They do 7:30pm Tues-Fri, 8:00pm on Saturday, and a 6:30pm on Sunday. With of course a matinee on both Sat & Sun as well.

Homepage - Shea's Performing Arts Center

WWW.SHEAS.ORG

---

Shea’s Performing Arts Center (Shea's PAC) is a campus of 3 theaters in downtown Buffalo comprised of Shea’s Smith Theatre, Shea’s 710 Theatre, and the historic...

 

[ShortCutie7]

6 hours ago, BuffaloKyle said:

I was curious what time the theater in Buffalo has their performances as I know my parents are going to see a show with an 8pm curtain on a Saturday. They do 7:30pm Tues-Fri, 8:00pm on Saturday, and a 6:30pm on Sunday. With of course a matinee on both Sat & Sun as well.

Homepage - Shea's Performing Arts Center

WWW.SHEAS.ORG

---

Shea’s Performing Arts Center (Shea's PAC) is a campus of 3 theaters in downtown Buffalo comprised of Shea’s Smith Theatre, Shea’s 710 Theatre, and the historic...

 

7:30 on a weeknight in a small city  makes sense!  And I love the Sunday 6:30 showtime!

Edited February 10 by ShortCutie7