Have you gone to Arab countries with another man?

[Guest]

In February, we're going to Egypt for an in-depth tour including a Nile cruise. It turns out that the easiest, most comfortable, and most cost-effective way to get there is to take Qatar Airways with a stopover in Doha. (The alternative with OneWorld is to go via British Airways via Heathrow and either overnight in Heathrow or come in at 11 PM the night before the cruise starts). Well, I know one has to be discreet when traveling in homophobic countries such as Qatar, and I was thinking I'd get rooms with 2 beds, in an effort to avoid suspicion. In looking at hotels, though, I've noticed that most rooms, including especially the nicer ones, only come with a king bed. For example, the Doubletree in Doha only has the cheapest room available with twin beds. If I want a larger room and/or a room with sea view, I'd need to get a king-bedded room:

Hilton Page Reference Code

WWW.HILTON.COM

Have any of you gone to countries in the Arabian peninsula with another man? If so, did you book any rooms with king beds, and encounter any problems? Especially countries such as Qatar, Kuwait, or the UAE?

[CuriousByNature]

1 hour ago, Unicorn said:

In February, we're going to Egypt for an in-depth tour including a Nile cruise. It turns out that the easiest, most comfortable, and most cost-effective way to get there is to take Qatar Airways with a stopover in Doha. (The alternative with OneWorld is to go via British Airways via Heathrow and either overnight in Heathrow or come in at 11 PM the night before the cruise starts). Well, I know one has to be discreet when traveling in homophobic countries such as Qatar, and I was thinking I'd get rooms with 2 beds, in an effort to avoid suspicion. In looking at hotels, though, I've noticed that most rooms, including especially the nicer ones, only come with a king bed. For example, the Doubletree in Doha only has the cheapest room available with twin beds. If I want a larger room and/or a room with sea view, I'd need to get a king-bedded room:

Hilton Page Reference Code

WWW.HILTON.COM

Have any of you gone to countries in the Arabian peninsula with another man? If so, did you book any rooms with king beds, and encounter any problems? Especially countries such as Qatar, Kuwait, or the UAE?

Could you ask if they have cots available?  Or a room with a sofabed?

[+ nycman]

Although I’ve never been to Doha, I have travelled to Turkey, Egypt, and Morocco many times and stayed in rooms with another man in all three. At every hotel we had only a single king bed. No one cared. They will assume you are two married men who are traveling without your wives and staying in one room to conserve money (which is not uncommon in Arab countries), or two gay foreigners (which they couldn’t care less about). 

Although, I would strongly advise against public displays of affection (which can be surprisingly hard to suppress when you’re used to holding hands a lot), in general they don’t give a fuck about gay foreigners as long as you keep it to yourself. Staying in small family hotels, private homes or AirBnB situations is a whole different kettle of fish and that I would avoid all together unless you had inside information that they were "ok with the gay".

Arab countries can be surprisingly tolerant as long as you keep your hands off the local men/boys and don’t act like screaming queens in public. 

Edited June 18, 2023 by nycman

[+ FrankR]

18 hours ago, Unicorn said:

In February, we're going to Egypt for an in-depth tour including a Nile cruise. It turns out that the easiest, most comfortable, and most cost-effective way to get there is to take Qatar Airways with a stopover in Doha. (The alternative with OneWorld is to go via British Airways via Heathrow and either overnight in Heathrow or come in at 11 PM the night before the cruise starts). Well, I know one has to be discreet when traveling in homophobic countries such as Qatar, and I was thinking I'd get rooms with 2 beds, in an effort to avoid suspicion. In looking at hotels, though, I've noticed that most rooms, including especially the nicer ones, only come with a king bed. For example, the Doubletree in Doha only has the cheapest room available with twin beds. If I want a larger room and/or a room with sea view, I'd need to get a king-bedded room:

Hilton Page Reference Code

WWW.HILTON.COM

Have any of you gone to countries in the Arabian peninsula with another man? If so, did you book any rooms with king beds, and encounter any problems? Especially countries such as Qatar, Kuwait, or the UAE?

If you are concerned…perhaps get two rooms - the nice one you actually want and a cheaper one for your “nephew who is looking after you”. 

[pubic_assistance]

1 hour ago, nycman said:

Although I’ve never been to Doha, I have travelled to Turkey, Egypt, and Morocco many times and stayed in rooms with another man in all three

Turkey and Morocco turn a blind eye to tourists. Certain Arab Peninsula Nations do the same. But always with Muslims it's best to be very discreet. Even as a tourist. I would opt for the less luxurious hotel with two beds.

[+ José Soplanucas]

15 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

Turkey and Morocco turn a blind eye to tourists. Certain Arab Peninsula Nations do the same. But always with Muslims it's best to be very discreet. Even as a tourist. I would opt for the less luxurious hotel with two beds.

With Muslims or with Homophobic Theocracies? Ask our loving Christian brothers and sisters in Uganda and the surrounding vicinity. 

[+ Italiano]

19 hours ago, José Soplanucas said:

With Muslims or with Homophobic Theocracies? Ask our loving Christian brothers and sisters in Uganda and the surrounding vicinity. 

I think with both...

[Bokomaru]

UAE is a nonissue in my experience. Being a huge tourist destination, it’s simply not in their best interest to harass tourists. I have had zero problems there with a male partner in my one-bed room. But I will note that the last time I went (which was precovid) they had security upon entry, ie the bags I carried on my person were scanned. Also, NB, any type of mind altering drug, like ambien or xanax, are illegal there and although they are not looking to give you trouble, it’s still a risk because drug laws are very strict, basically zero tolerance. It matters not to them whether the drug is legally prescribed in your home country. 

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

While you're not going to find any massive gay clubs/bars or a pride event, if you're staying at a good hotel in Doha, Cairo, Abu Dhabi, Dubai, etc, you won't need to explain nor request two beds for two men together.

As others here have wisely said, just cut any public affection and you'll be fine.  

I've traveled as a couple all over Africa and through the Middle East.  Have never had one single issue.

I would advise to read up on what RX you cannot bring in, even in-bottle and with a US script.  They don't fuck around on that.  It's very black-and-white.

Great choice on flying QR.  They are where I tend to blow my personal miles when I want a consistent, quality J-class experience.

[Rod Hagen]

We got two queen beds when we visited Petra.  Probably didn't need to, it was a nice hotel.

 

Have a great trip!

 

Edited June 19, 2023 by Rod Hagen

[BSR]

On 6/18/2023 at 8:07 AM, José Soplanucas said:

With Muslims or with Homophobic Theocracies? Ask our loving Christian brothers and sisters in Uganda and the surrounding vicinity. 

I think you're making a somewhat false equivalency.  Of the 50 Muslim-majority countries, only 2 have Pride celebrations:  Albania and Kosovo.  Of the ~150 Christian-majority countries, almost all have Pride celebrations, except Uganda and a very few others.  You lump the 2 together in the same "homophobic theocracy" basket only because you hate Christians and Christianity.

[+ José Soplanucas]

4 minutes ago, BSR said:

I think you're making a somewhat false equivalency.  Of the 50 Muslim-majority countries, only 2 have Pride celebrations:  Albania and Kosovo.  Of the ~150 Christian-majority countries, almost all have Pride celebrations, except Uganda and a very few others.  You lump the 2 together in the same "homophobic theocracy" basket only because you hate Christians and Christianity.

I do not think it is a false equivalence. Nowadays, most Muslim countries are Theocracies, and that is the issue. If Christians control the government as in Uganda, we would have the same problem in any other country.

[marylander1940]

On 6/18/2023 at 11:07 AM, José Soplanucas said:

With Muslims or with Homophobic Theocracies? Ask our loving Christian brothers and sisters in Uganda and the surrounding vicinity. 

Uganda is an exception but if it was a Muslim country it would be considered just normal/expected behavior.  

Just like Bill Mahr I don't give some countries a pass in this issue out of political correctness. 

3 minutes ago, BSR said:

I think you're making a somewhat false equivalency.  Of the 50 Muslim-majority countries, only 2 have Pride celebrations:  Albania and Kosovo.  Of the ~150 Christian-majority countries, almost all have Pride celebrations, except Uganda and a very few others.  You lump the 2 together in the same "homophobic theocracy" basket only because you hate Christians and Christianity.

I don't always agree with you but in this case you:

[+ José Soplanucas]

5 minutes ago, marylander1940 said:

Just like Bill Mahr I don't give some countries a pass in this issue out of political correctness. 

I am not giving a pass to anyone. I am against Theocratic governments of any sign, not against Muslims. I am against Muslim Tehocracies and their homophobia. My concern is that homophobic Christians use Muslim homophobia to make themselves look and feel better.

Edited June 23, 2023 by José Soplanucas

[marylander1940]

Just now, José Soplanucas said:

I am not giving a pass to anyone. I am against Theocratic governments of any sign, not again Muslims. I am against Muslim Tehocracies and their homophobia. My concern is that homophobic Christians use Muslim homophobia to make themselves look and feel better.

I understand your point but there are many different levels of homophobia and how they're enforced by law or not.

Capital punishment for homosexuality - Wikipedia

EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG

A Muslim preacher 'who advocated beheading of gay men' is coming to Britain for a lecture tour

WWW.INDEPENDENT.CO.UK

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Group hosting Mr Sodagar has defended the lecture series, saying his comments on gay men have been deliberately misinterpreted by right-wing media

Iran purportedly executes 2 gay men over sodomy charges

WWW.CBSNEWS.COM

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A human rights organization says the men were hanged at a prison after 6 years on death row in Iran, where homosexuality is officially banned.

 

 

 

[+ José Soplanucas]

I am just moved by the empathy of those who condemn Muslim bigotry in faraway countries while celebrating American Christian hatred as an expression of religious freedom. Who do you think are the crazies supporting the anti-gay, anti-trans, and anti-drag fever in the US? Where are the threats for sexual minorities coming from if we live in the USA?

When someone in the US condemns Muslim bigotry, I do not defend Muslims. I remind everyone of the most immediate threat to gays, trans, drags, and women living in the Americas.

I think I said it before. The unintelligent and the uneducated mistake criticism for hatred. Remember Patt.

[+ ThroatCummer]

Also don't underestimate the power of a US Passport.  At the end of the day, none of these countries want an issue with a random American on their hands.  You're too much freaking trouble to mess with. You *DO* carry the full weight of the United States of America and they aren't throwing you in jail unless they want you as a political pawn. I that case like with Russia or Iran, it really doesn't matter if you are gay, or a reporter, or have vapes on you.  You're just fucked for breathing the air in that moment. 

[BSR]

3 hours ago, José Soplanucas said:

The unintelligent and the uneducated mistake criticism for hatred.

People who seethe with hatred are almost always blind to their own hatred.  Just as some (the number is far lower than the Cult of Victimhood wants us to believe) Christians hate gays yet deny to their very marrow their hatred, you hate the US, Christians, and Christianity yet are deep in denial about your hatred.  I'm not mistaking anything, rather, drawing my conclusion based on dozens and dozens of posts you've written over the years.

There are many forum members whose politics are very if not extremely different from mine, yet I don't accuse them of anti-American or anti-Christian hatred because as much as we disagree, I simply don't see that hatred in them.  But I do see it in you.

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

3 hours ago, ThroatCummer said:

Also don't underestimate the power of a US Passport. 

It means less than it used to.  A lot less.

Don't expect your embassy to bail you out.  Don't expect Americuh to come running to save you from your own stupid decisions.

When in Rome, you might not always do exactly as Romans do, but at least have enough respect to recognize culture and custom.

[CuriousByNature]

5 hours ago, José Soplanucas said:

I am not giving a pass to anyone. I am against Theocratic governments of any sign, not against Muslims. I am against Muslim Tehocracies and their homophobia. My concern is that homophobic Christians use Muslim homophobia to make themselves look and feel better.

Perhaps even more than this, I do not think there is any such thing as a 'Christian' country - except perhaps the Vatican.  There are countries with a majority Christian population, but most of these are very secular and humanistic when it comes to both domestic public policy and international affairs.   That said, many churches have changed their views over time with respect to scriptural passages about sexuality and how these should be applied today versus how they were applied in the Middle East two or three thousand years ago.   Sorry if this response has crossed the line and ventured into religion and politics!  Moderators please delete if so desired

[+ José Soplanucas]

3 hours ago, CuriousByNature said:

Perhaps even more than this, I do not think there is any such thing as a 'Christian' country - except perhaps the Vatican.  There are countries with a majority Christian population, but most of these are very secular and humanistic when it comes to both domestic public policy and international affairs.   That said, many churches have changed their views over time with respect to scriptural passages about sexuality and how these should be applied today versus how they were applied in the Middle East two or three thousand years ago.   Sorry if this response has crossed the line and ventured into religion and politics!  Moderators please delete if so desired

Christendom is primarily a "Western" group of churches nowadays. After centuries of oppression by Christian zealots, most Western countries learned their lesson and have switched to secular states. When Christians were massacring and burning innocents in the Middle Ages, Muslims protected civilization and continued the path that Greek and Roman philosophers and scientists started. Without Islam back then, we may have never had a European Renaissance. 

Islam is going through something like Medieval times nowadays in how they understand the relationship between Religion and Society. Moderate, rational Muslims are oppressed under those Theocracies as everyone else.

But things could change again. They could have a secular revolution, while we could have a Theocratic reaction. Look at Russia and Uganda; look at Southern US states.

I live in the USA. It was not Muslims who imposed their beliefs on all women by denying their freedom of choice over their bodies. No Muslims advocated and approved of anti-gay, trans, and drag laws across the US. The ones feeding on hatred in the US and the Americas are the worse Christian factions.

That is my point. Unsurprisingly, the same forum members who defend Christian bigotry condemn Muslims and whine when they perceive others applying a double standard. 

[CuriousByNature]

26 minutes ago, José Soplanucas said:

Christendom is primarily a "Western" group of churches nowadays. After centuries of oppression by Christian zealots, most Western countries learned their lesson and have switched to secular states. When Christians were massacring and burning innocents in the Middle Ages, Muslims protected civilization and continued the path that Greek and Roman philosophers and scientists started. Without Islam back then, we may have never had a European Renaissance. 

Islam is going through something like Medieval times nowadays in how they understand the relationship between Religion and Society. Moderate, rational Muslims are oppressed under those Theocracies as everyone else.

But things could change again. They could have a secular revolution, while we could have a Theocratic reaction. Look at Russia and Uganda; look at Southern US states.

I live in the USA. It was not Muslims who imposed their beliefs on all women by denying their freedom of choice over their bodies. No Muslims advocated and approved of anti-gay, trans, and drag laws across the US. The ones feeding on hatred in the US and the Americas are the worse Christian factions.

That is my point. Unsurprisingly, the same forum members who defend Christian bigotry condemn Muslims and whine when they perceive others applying a double standard. 

Even though I am a Christian, perhaps surprisingly to you and others, I agree with much of what you are saying.  However, I don't think 'Christendom' has existed for at least several hundred years, anywhere.  And it never should have in the first place.  It is not about creating an earthly kingdom of 'believers'.  One of the worst things that happened to Christianity was making it a state religion in the late Roman and Byzantine Empires because faith no longer had a personal cost.  People could benefit greatly in this life, and in worldly ways of power and wealth, from simply adhering to the identity of being 'Christian'.  I don't believe that is what the Church was ever supposed to be, nor do I think it reflected the character of Christ.  Rather, I think the Church should have remained an outlier of people (even in the majority) who lived their lives in a way that set them apart from the rest of the world - not becoming the rest of the world.  The accumulation of power, wealth and influence is what led directly, I believe, to the many atrocities the Church has been responsible for.   As for Islam, it has not yet experienced a Reformation or Counter-Reformation, as the Church did.  It would be very interesting if that were to happen, and what the effects could be.

Again, apologies if this response crosses any lines.  I do wish the politics and religion forum could be brought back with strict guidelines that insults and bad behaviour would result in a ban.... but I'm not a Moderator, which many are probably thankful for! 

Edited June 24, 2023 by CuriousByNature

[LostUpstate]

I’ve been to Doha five times. Awesome little city with incredible modern architecture. All hotel employees and everyone who works in the hospitality industry are expats, a good deal of them come from the Philippines, India, Pakistan and various African countries. Still, I would be discreet in public. No public displays of affection, no hand holding, etc. At the hotels where I’ve stayed in the West Bay, I’ve always been amazed at how some foreigners dress- short shorts, bare shoulders, etc. On the hotel beach, some female tourists were wearing thongs. A lot of local guys go jet skiing on the Persian Gulf, and they pass by the hotel beaches very slowly to catch a look. 

If you have time, take a cruise on the Persian Gulf in the evening to see the skyline illuminated at night. It’s about $30 US for half an hour and it’s spectacular. In February, it should be cool enough, in the 70s. I wouldn’t do it in the summer when it’s 120°.

Edited June 24, 2023 by LostUpstate

[Guest]

11 hours ago, LostUpstate said:

I’ve been to Doha five times....

Thanks for the wonderful info. It sounds as though you usually stay in West Bay. I thought that for us staying near the Corniche/Old Town might be more convenient because it's nearer the big tourist sights. You agree? We'll be staying two nights (check in 23rd, check out 25th) with our flight from LAX coming in at 17:50 and flight to Cairo leaving 14:05, basically leaving us a full day of sightseeing. In the morning, I was planning to take a city tour. In the afternoon, the two things I was thinking of were either to go to the museums which are near the old town (National Museum and Museum of Islamic Art), or take a tour of the desert and inland sea. Which would you recommend? The evening cruise is a great idea I hadn't thought of. 

Discover Doha - Overview

WWW.DISCOVERQATAR.QA

"Experience the unique heritage, storied history and realized aspirations of Doha with a city tour that takes you around Souq Waqif, Dhow Harbor, the Museum of Islamic Arts, Katara Cultural Village and The Pearl. We first meet up in Souq Waqif, Doha’s oldest marketplace and unmissable tourist hotspot, for a guided tour through its vibrant labyrinth of alleyways where you can experience the city’s living heritage and traditions. We then proceed to Dhow Harbor and the Museum of Islamic Art, where you will have the opportunity to take Instagram-worthy photos of the breathtaking views and locations. Our next stop is Katara Cultural Village, which is the largest and the most multidimensional cultural project in Qatar. Experience a guided tour through the Katara Mosque, the Golden Masjid, beautiful theatres, concert halls. Next up is a photo stop at one of Qatar’s former pearl diving beds. The Pearl-Qatar is a man-made island with luxury towers and villas, high-end shopping, hotels and fine dining."

Discover the Desert and Inland Sea - Private Tour - Overview

WWW.DISCOVERQATAR.QA

"Discover the remarkable desert landscape where sand dunes spill into the azure waters of the Inland Sea. Our qualified desert drivers will take you on an adventure, travelling through the dramatic sand dunes to Khor Al Adaid, a large tidal embayment recognized for its outstanding natural heritage value. After being collected at your hotel drive we drive approximately 1 hour to the entrance of the desert at Sealine. Here we have a brief stop to deflate our tires. From here, the adventure starts with our off road desert drive through the dramatic sand dunes. Your experienced driver will navigate the dunes until we reach Khor-Al-Adaid, or the inland sea. You will have an opportunity to take in the magnificent desert landscape, visit the towering Sheraton Dune and marvel at the azure waters of the Arabian Sea before we depart for a brief comfort stop at our desert camp on the way back to Doha."

National Museum of Qatar - NMOQ

NMOQ.ORG.QA

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Welcome to the National Museum of Qatar (NMoQ), a vibrant and immersive space that invites all visitors to explore Qatar's rich heritage and culture.

Museum of Islamic Art - Museum of Islamic Art

MIA.ORG.QA

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Explore the Museum of Islamic Art (MIA), see its comprehensive collection & masterpieces from across the globe showing the diversity of Islamic heritage.

 

Edited June 24, 2023 by Unicorn

[LostUpstate]

I highly recommend the evening cruise when you arrive, if you’re not too tired. You walk to the pier near where there’s a Costa Coffee stand (the British coffee chain) and the boats are docked there. You barter with the guys who offer cruises, it should be around 100-120 Qatari riyals, which is about $30 for a 20-minute cruise on the Gulf. 

The Museum of Islamic Art is beautiful, but I’m not a fan of much Islamic art. The Souq Waqif is interesting, but I’m not a big shopper, if that’s your thing, it’s worth visiting. If I’m going to shop, I prefer London and Paris, quirky independent shops and incredible menswear in London. I’m not into buying tchotchkes or gold jewelry. And what would I do with an Arab sheikh outfit? Use it for Halloween?

The Pearl is interesting and there’s a little replica of Venice with canals and bridges. I also liked the Katara Towers, a really unusual piece of architecture. One side is a Raffles Hotel, and the other side is a Fairmont. Worth going inside. 

I stay in the West Bay because that’s where my company puts us up. I’ve traveled there on business but I’ve been lucky to have free time there.