Covid vaccine increases death rates!

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, BSR said:

If Pfizer never claimed that the vaccine would reduce transmission, then why did Anthony Fauci say that we need people to get vaccinated "to break the chain of transmission"?...

 

Not that I'm a huge Fauci fan, but what you're saying doesn't make much sense. Are you suggesting Fauci is a Pfizer spokesman? Or that he should only look at data coming out of Pfizer-funded studies? Pfizer received approval from the FDA for the immunization to reduce symptoms/hospitalizations/deaths from the virus. Period. There were tons of studies done which had nothing to do with the FDA approval process. Pfizer could never make a claim regarding their immunization (or any other drug) which didn't have FDA approval. That doesn't mean public health officials aren't privy to a large number of other studies. And, even with the current strain and the old vaccine, vaccination has been proven to reduced transmission. Just not as much as previously. 

[josh282282]

     PUBLIC SERVICE ANOUNCEMENT 

To all my esteemed friends on this board:  be very aware and leery of all the NON-PHYSICIAN members who are urgently giving you medical advice here on this board.  Conversely, time and time again, physicians (like Unicorn  and there are others but I forget their screen names) are here giving sound, cogent responses and advice.  I, as a board certified family physician do so, too:

PLEASE GET COVID VACCINATED.  IT SAVES LIVES.

Ignore these lunatics here on this board who are NOT physicians giving anti-covid vaccine rhetoric.

 

Do you get legal advice from a friend? NO, you go to a LAWYER.

Do you get accounting advice from anonymous accountant sources? NO, you go to an ACCOUNTANT.

Do you call your mom to fix your plumbing problems?  NO, you call a PLUMBER.

Listen to the doctors!

So DO NOT LISTEN to these non-physicians (like pubic-assistance, for example) about medical care and especially vaccines.  They seem to know oh-so-much (and are ever so abrasive) that the whole medical community seems to NOT know and disagrees with.  Pubic-assistance and his lot never went to medical school  They operate OUT of their depth.  Don't let them hurt you by listening to their unproven and unsupported (and peculiar) medical advice.   They have political agendas where physicians only agenda is life saving.   

 

Every one wants to be a doctor.  No one wants to go to medical school. 

 

IN SUM: PLEASE GET COVID VACCINATED.  IT SAVES LIVES.

 

warmest regards and much love to all,

Josh

 

PS    You got the new covid vaccine with the bivalent dose of covid, the one with the Omicron variant in it, yah?

PPS  You got your flu vaccine, too, right?

PPS   And of course you are getting as soon as you can your Monkey pox vaccine?  I mean we are all a bit slutty on this board.....       

Edited October 13, 2022 by josh282282
Fix a typo

[SirBillybob]

15 hours ago, BSR said:

If Pfizer never claimed that the vaccine would reduce transmission, then why did Anthony Fauci say that we need people to get vaccinated "to break the chain of transmission"?

 

It’s a clinical heuristic that was not unreasonable, particularly in the face of contrarian resistance and wackadoodle assertions by politicians. Additionally, a transmission component could not be integrated in early vaxx research and the expedient was efficacy. Pharma did not indicate transmission impact was zero. It called for more complex research design. The first step in reducing viral transmission is to reduce infection. If we lacked the sophistication to assess transmission potential in spite of vaccination, the incidence outcome would have nevertheless supported the inference of both prophylaxis and reducing spread. Moreover, the research supports that transmission was attenuated. But if you want to obsess and discount that vaccination’s overall success story is bunk, unimpactful, that the mandate’s benefits did not override downsides …

What is more inaccurately revisionist? That early intervention messaging was framed in a manner that yielded no beneficial effect on overall pandemic morbidity/mortality due to well-intentioned wording emanating from slack uptake, wording that is now fallaciously viewed as outright mendacity, or that breakthrough infection, already known from the get-go, retrospectively invalidates the benefits assumed and desired in the first place? Both are flawed, and false dichotomy.

The virus has adapted to many changes without its own scapegoating finger-pointing council of naysayers; we need to roll with changes in info as well. 

Edited October 13, 2022 by SirBillybob

[+ sniper]

The following are made up numbers, I am not claiming anyone said these stats: There's a difference between reducing R from 2 to 0.8 and reducing it from 5 to 3.2. In both cases transmission was in fact reduced,  but in the second the case counts will continue to climb until a peak is reached rather than start declining. Nobody ever claimed the vaccines would eliminate transmission, but I've seen a lot of people drawing the false conclusion that since they don't eliminate transmission they don't  reduce it at all. And even simply slowing the spread reduces the risk of hospital overload, which can and does lead to patients dying who otherwise would not have. Flattening the curve even if the area under the curve is unchanged saves lives.

[+ sniper]

"Condoms don't eliminate the risk of HIV 100% so they're useless."

[tenderloin]

Thank you Sniper and Josh282282 for your reasoned and logical posts.  Bravo

[Spiritualadvisor]

Pfizer never claimed to have tested the impact of its COVID-19 vaccine on transmission ahead of its 2020 release, despite misleading claims suggesting the company lied about this issue. Such studies were conducted after its rollout. Here are the facts.
 

https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-pfizer-transmission-european-parliament-950413863226

[+ augustus]

On 10/12/2022 at 10:32 PM, josh282282 said:

Listen to the doctors!

Doctor mistakes are legion.  And I mean legion!

[+ augustus]

Gee, 99% of people who have died from Covid are seniors and those under 65 with comorbidities.  I guess there's no logical conclusions to draw from that!  Instead, shut down whole economies and wreak havoc on humanity.  

[+ augustus]

People today act as though public intellectuals, doctors, scientists, officials, etc, have always been the authority on everything, and are always right. How did this happen? A brief examination of history demonstrates how absurd this notion is. Look at germ theory! Just one example.  Imagine a world so bizarre science is measured by the absence of its questions in favor of articles of faith. Inquiry has become iniquity.

[+ augustus]

Human nature has revealed that lying to extend or protect one's interest is a highly evolved trait, selected over eons of evolution in the hyper social Homo sapiens species as rendering survival and propagative advantages.  Doctors are members of the species.  One must always understand where their interests lie in evaluating the veracity of their statements.

[+ augustus]

Joe Biden said "Get the vaccine so you won't get Covid." Joe Biden got at least 2 vaccines and at least 2 boosters. Joe Biden has had Covid 3 times.

[+ augustus]

When people first wanted the vaccine data the CDC wanted it locked up for 50 years.  When that was appealed the CDC went for 75.  THERE HAS TO BE A REASON!

[EastCoastBtm]

And one must understand where the interests of sociopaths lie....

Listen to the doctors and not the sociopaths.  It's really that easy. 

Its amazing how they all talk - 'I have a friend who has a dog walker who knows a janitor that works in the hospital....'  Sounds like some political sociopaths I know.

Just stop.  Vaccines have protected the world for decades.  Yes, some people have adverse reactions... that doesn't negate the infinite lives protected because societies embraced vaccines. Because of the sociopaths, polio could make a comeback!

 

Shocking how what I assumed were educated people, act like they aren't when it comes to vaccines.

The anti-vax movement has been gaining momentum, which is evident in a Gallup study that finds that 84% of parents support vaccines. In 2001, 94% of parents supported vaccines for their children. The decline is seen mostly in less-educated groups, and the only group that most consistently vaccinates are those with postgraduate degrees.

 

https://www.verywellfamily.com/how-to-talk-to-friends-who-are-against-vaccines-5093658

[+ FrankR]

It is quite sad to see how quickly “some people” pivot to making a health issue into a political issue. Sad! 🙄

[tenderloin]

15 minutes ago, augustus said:

When people first wanted the vaccine data the CDC wanted it locked up for 50 years.  When that was appealed the CDC went for 75.  THERE HAS TO BE A REASON!

If you would get the ideological broom out of your tuchus and actually look into the matter, you would see that there is a very logical explanation (as opposed to your conspiracy crap):
 

In September, Public Health and Medical Professionals for Transparency sued FDA, claiming the agency denied a request to expedite the release of Pfizer-BioNTech's Covid-19 vaccine review documents via the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA).

In response to the lawsuit, FDA in November proposed releasing around 500 pages of the review documents each month—which would fulfill the organization's FOIA request in around 55 to 75 years. FDA said the agency branch responsible for handling the request has only 10 employees and is currently processing 400 other FOIA requests, MedPage Today reports.

However, U.S. District Judge Mark Pittman of the Northern District of Texas in January issued a court order requiring FDA to significantly speed up the release of the documents.

Under the court order, FDA was required to release approximately 12,000 pages of documents immediately, and then 55,000 pages a month until all documents—totaling more than 300,000 pages—are released. Before the documents can be released, the agency must redact confidential business and trade secret information from Pfizer and BioNTech, as well as private patient information from clinical trials.

Although the court noted that releasing this many documents this quickly would have "unduly burdensome challenges" for FDA, it said releasing the documents is of "paramount public important" and expediting the process is "not only practicable, but necessary."

According to Zach Zalewski, a regulatory strategy consultant at Avalere Health, the released documents will "literally include every scrap of paper that was submitted to FDA for the entirety of the pandemic," but they are not likely to be useful in determining the vaccine's overall safety and efficacy.

However, this has not stopped anti-vaccine advocates from using the released documents to question the safety of Covid-19 vaccines, MedPage Today reports. For example, Children's Health Defense, a nonprofit that advocates against the use of Covid-19 vaccines in kids, highlighted a list of adverse events that occurred during clinical trials of the vaccine—a list experts have said is misleading since it also includes adverse events that occurred in participants who received a placebo.

With the release of these documents, "[t]here's a risk of cherry picking and taking things out of context," Zalewski said. "Just because you will have all the data in front of you, that doesn't mean you'll reach any different conclusions."

 

[+ augustus]

The whole vaccine industry/government emergency rationale is starting to become less convincing as the virus mutates down to the level of the common flu.  Nobody I know is buying it anymore.  It now seems to be about political power and money, not public health.

[+ augustus]

14 minutes ago, tenderloin said:

With the release of these documents, "[t]here's a risk of cherry picking and taking things out of context," Zalewski said. "Just because you will have all the data in front of you, that doesn't mean you'll reach any different conclusions."

Is THAT the excuse for the CDC trying to hide information???  Doesn't sound logical at all.

Edited October 17, 2022 by augustus

[+ augustus]

You CANNOT believe the Covid information coming out anymore.  "Is the Covid-19 pandemic over Mr. President"....... President Biden’s answer is yes..... no..... yes... no.....    You cannot believe these people anymore, including many of the doctors and scientists.  They have lied too often, and people are confused and fed up!

Edited October 17, 2022 by augustus

[pubic_assistance]

On 10/12/2022 at 10:32 PM, josh282282 said:

So DO NOT LISTEN to these non-physicians (like pubic-assistance, for example) about medical care and especially vaccines.  They seem to know oh-so-much (and are ever so abrasive) that the whole medical community seems to NOT know and disagrees with.  Pubic-assistance and his lot never went to medical school  They operate OUT of their depth.  Don't let them hurt you by listening to their unproven and unsupported (and peculiar) medical advice.   They have political agendas where physicians only agenda is life saving.   

I take offence at your accusation here..

I shared several direct references from a text-book immunologist. Literally the person who discovered where the human immuno-response is made. The guy is running a pharmaceutical company and one who is NOT profiting from the Covid panic. He's had to deal with Fauci for 35 years because the man has had this position for decades..

I'm not just spouting off my random opinions.

Fauci is a pharmaceutical industry crony.

That's a fact. Not an opinion .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[coriolis888]

2 hours ago, augustus said:

Joe Biden said "Get the vaccine so you won't get Covid." Joe Biden got at least 2 vaccines and at least 2 boosters. Joe Biden has had Covid 3 times.

Are you not leaving out a critical fact?

While it may be true that Biden was fully vaccinated and had a few cases of Coronavirus, he was never hospitalized or severely ill from the virus.   

Clearly, the vaccines kept his bouts with Coronavirus to a minimum with only minor symptoms.   

Had he not been vaccinated, given his age, he likely would have been hospitalized or could have succumbed from those bouts with the virus.  

The vaccine usually prevents full blown Coronavirus and it markedly lowers the possibility of death from the virus.  

I wonder why some people refuse or cannot see that trend in society. 

One personal example I experienced was when there were international travel restrictions several months ago.  Americans returning to the U.S. from foreign countries were required to be tested for Coronavirus prior to entry or return to the U.S.  

I was in a foreign country and two days before my return flight to the U.S., my coronavirus test came back positive despite my being fully vaccinated.  

I had zero symptoms and would not have know I contracted the virus were it not for the mandatory testing for travel back to the U.S.

Looking at the big picture, it certainly appears that the vaccine is beneficial in at least reducing symptoms (or death) for those who are fully vaccinated.  

 

Edited October 17, 2022 by coriolis888

[coriolis888]

1 hour ago, augustus said:

You CANNOT believe the Covid information coming out anymore.  "Is the Covid-19 pandemic over Mr. President"....... President Biden’s answer is yes..... no..... yes... no.....    You cannot believe these people anymore, including many of the doctors and scientists.  They have lied too often, and people are confused and fed up!

They did not lie!

The virus was a new disease that hit the world.  There was no prior experience dealing with such a widespread disaster.  

In good faith, Fauci and other physicians gave their best good faith opinions based on their experience dealing with a new disease that had no prior history.  

To say that the doctors "lied" about the virus and the vaccine is not realistic.  

 

[coriolis888]

2 hours ago, augustus said:

Gee, 99% of people who have died from Covid are seniors and those under 65 with comorbidities.  I guess there's no logical conclusions to draw from that!  Instead, shut down whole economies and wreak havoc on humanity.  

Disagreeing fact check:

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-walensky-study/fact-check-cdc-study-found-that-over-75-of-covid-19-deaths-in-vaccinated-people-were-among-those-with-at-least-4-comorbidities-idUSL1N2TS0S2

[+ augustus]

22 minutes ago, coriolis888 said:

Disagreeing fact check:

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-walensky-study/fact-check-cdc-study-found-that-over-75-of-covid-19-deaths-in-vaccinated-people-were-among-those-with-at-least-4-comorbidities-idUSL1N2TS0S2

But that's basically what I said.  

[+ sam.fitzpatrick]

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