Do I Need to Disclose My Race?

[xyz48B]

I guess for me it’s not a matter of saying “I don’t sleep with black guys” as much as it’s “I find a killer smile and defined cheekbones attractive.” Does that mean I wouldn’t sleep with someone with a baby face? No. I think I’m open to seeing each guy for what he is, whole package. I don’t make a conscious choice to only consider white guys, or Asians, or whatever. I allow my eyes to alight upon all things and enjoy what pleases them.

[Milo Farnsworth]

Both on this forum, and in some ethnographic studies on male prostitution (a very popular thesis topic, apparently), escorts often say that they won't take Black clients because:

 

1. They're less "generous"
   
2. They're more "demanding" (in one example, the escort complained that Black men want to use the entire hour)
   

 

Sad.

I'm as White as they come and I insist we use the hour.

[down_to_business]

I understand your anxieties. My practice was/is to ask at first contact "do you have any discomforts with race, age, or weight?" I do not have an overabundance of discretionary funds, therefore, I try to be as certain as possible of an enjoyable time before I commit.

 

Excellent way to handle this @sync !

 

Some other comments/thoughts:

 

I am one who firmly believes escorts need to be responsible for their own "preferences" or prejudice. I also don't think any customer of a business or service needs to apologize for who they are (i.e. age, race, height, weight, etc.) and that is what providing such unsolicited information feels like. Apologetic sounding communication is very counter to confident communication, and many of us find confidence attractive. It should 100% be on the service provider to let a client know if he will not be able to see someone simply because of who they are (for example) the client is a ginger and he can't perform with gingers.

 

I have never been able to consciously control who I am attracted to. if anyone knows the secret of how, let me in on it.

 

Most of us have "preferences"... I think that is normal. I myself have a preference for 26-27 year old EMT/Firefighters with jet black hair and blue eyes that are 6' tall. That preference hasn't stopped me for my insane crush over British actor George Sear, who doesn't have jet black hair, is only 22 and is 5'8" tall. I also will not be attracted to every single 6' tall, 26 year old firefighter with jet black hair and blue eyes that I see.

 

Not every escort needs to be attracted to every client to provide service to them. Not every person needs to be attracted to their partner to have sex with them. Some people (and as a subset escorts) won't be able to have sex with another who they don't find attractive.

 

And...No I don't think being an escort is easy nor can everyone do it.

[Guest]

https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2015-30734-001

 

"In May 2011, 2177 gay and bisexual men in Australia participated in an online survey that assessed how acceptably they viewed online sexual racism. Although the men sampled displayed diverse attitudes, many were remarkably tolerant of sexual racism. We conducted two multiple linear regression analyses to compare factors related to men’s attitudes toward sexual racism online and their racist attitudes more broadly. Almost every identified factor associated with men’s racist attitudes was also related to their attitudes toward sexual racism. The only differences were between men who identified as Asian or Indian. Sexual racism, therefore, is closely associated with generic racist attitudes, which challenges the idea of racial attraction as solely a matter of personal preference."

That's called designing a study to show a predetermined outcome. Obviously, there are some people who are racist and are turned off to a person physically because they're racist. So if you just survey people who are turned off by a certain race, you're going to pick up all of the racists along with those who are not, and in the group who are not turned off by a certain race, you'll therefore find far fewer racists (I do think it's safe to assume that it's very rare for someone who is racist to be sexually turned on by members of the race for which he's racist against). Even the very term they use to describe a racial sexual preference, "sexual racism," is a highly loaded term and points to the biases and intentions of the people who designed the study.

To illustrate, let take a hypothetical group of 100. 20 are racist, and dislike race X. 2 are racist, but in reality get turned on by race X. 20 are not racist, but don't get turned on by race X. The rest are neither racist and are fully capable of getting turned on by race X. If you did a survey of those who are and are not turned on by race X, you would find : Hey, 50% of people who aren't attracted to race X are racist, but only 2% of people who are attracted to race X are racist. While this does show an associated between dislike for race X and racism, it doesn't show causality. Association aside, racism and preference for certain races are separate issues.

I have a friend whose heritage is 100% Korean. I can tell you that he has never been turned on by Asian men, ever. There have been times I've gone out with him and pointed out a man I consider a smoking hot Asian, and I've said "Even that guy? You don't think he's attractive?" to which he replies negatively. He has plenty of Asian friends (and family, obviously), and I can assure you he's not the least bit racist. It's just a preference. I have another friend who has no interest in anyone over 5'7" (1.73 m). I point out hot tall men, and he's not interested. I point to a short guy and he goes nuts. We went out on a boat on a lake along with my Paraguayan ex and his short friend, and my friend was in ecstasy ogling the Paraguayan's short friend.

It certainly may be the case that much of our sexual preferences may be learned rather than acquired genetically or in the womb. I'm sure my sexual orientation itself was not learned. I don't know why I'm more attracted to men with dark hair, which I somehow associated with masculinity. Maybe it's because during my youth, Disney cartoon couples always showed the handsome man with darker hair and the woman with lighter hair. Whatever the reason, preferences and racism are separate issues.

https://cdn1.parksmedia.wdprapps.disney.com/media/blog/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/urtuyrt76958786-624x351.jpg

https://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/mp/bBnSLBoCXuZl.jpg

[Epigonos]

Unicorn I'm not sure that I agree that a racists wouldn't have sex with some guys who represent the racial group he doesn't like. MANY years ago I spent two days, in Tampa, with a gorgeous young black guy who happened to have a body to die for. At dinner, in a nice restaurant, our first night together, he expressed surprise that I, an older white man, would be seen openly in public with him, a young black man, at a very nice restaurant. My response sent him into fits of laughter. I simply stated that if I was willing to suck his cock in private the least I could do is be seen publicly with him in a nice restaurant. He went on to explain that he had been hired by a number of very racist white men who wanted a master/slave scenario. To say I went ballistic is putting it mildly. He actually seemed surprised by my response. Damn he was a gorgeous kid who was wonderful in bed. I only hope he has had a successful life and is happy -- he sure as hell made me happy.

Edited August 1, 2020 by Epigonos

[+ Axiom2001]

Q: Do I need to disclose my race?

A: No

 

When it comes to escorts, you are paying for their time. Not the other way around. I don’t disclose my age, weight, race, political beliefs or anything else because it doesn’t matter. I’m paying! If you have a problem with me for any of those reasons that’s your problem, not mine.

 

Aaron James, I am with you. I make an appointment; the escort has come to me, or I have gone to him. ...have not always fully connected with a few, but I haven't let this stop me from having a good play session (or a sterling one) with others.

 

On one occasion I did write a very popular escort who had a comment in his ad about race. When he visited San Francisco, he addressed my concern when we did meet me. He and I had an "over-the-top" experience; thus when he returned to "The-City-by-the-Bay," he and I saw each other for a repeat, or perhaps it was a "three-peat!"

 

I sent you a message.

[DMICS]

I am of an ethnicity that is generally considered less than desirable in the gay community. I've faced sexual and non-sexual racial discrimination on many occasions in my life. It doesn't feel great. This is one of the many reasons I considering hiring an escort. I want to be able to connect with men that normally would not give me the time of day because of my race.

 

However, I guess I am being naive in assuming a financial incentive would completely eliminate a person's racial bias. Would the escorts still go forward with your session with them regardless of your race? How do you navigate this?

 

 

Hey @Palidod , 1st welcome. 2nd I definitely know 100% where you're coming from since I'm also a minority that is less desirable or highly-fetishized in the gay "community." It's definitely broken me at times mentally whether it's online, cruising, or sex clubs/parties. That's something I'll have to try and manage or just remove myself completely from the "community" just to have a healthy mind. People definitely have preferences, heck I have my own too.

 

As a client I've been hiring for 4 years now and what I've quickly learned is the escorting business has changed a lot over time and more so the past few years. The basic "rules" and standards are being thrown out the window more and more. In general most would think a provider should offer his services no matter what the client's age, race, etc is. Thats what he/she signed up for. elyNow I'd say that's not the case as much with providers either requiring pics, stats, background etc before following through with a booking. They definitely have that right to pick and choose also.

 

Personally, I always tell the provider my race and ask if he's ok with it. For the most part I've had no issues and most providers I've hired are shocked when I ask that question. In fact when it's meeting time, providers usually they'll me they're stunned when they see how young I am because more of their clients are much older men. Some are even shocked more and digusted when I tell them why a guy like myself is hiring.

 

I've also came across a few bad apples. Providers I've reached out to for an upcoming session. In some cases I've been blocked on RM when they saw my photos on my profile (which I've now taken down), got slick disrespectful comments back, pretty much said they're not into my race, or come up with a lame excuse but then when I message from a 2nd RM account they're ready to go.

 

Anyways hope this helps. I'd definitely suggest asking if your ethnicity is an issue before hand just to avoid any BS when you're session happens.

 

While you think it's overreacting, look at why this thread was started. These kinds of "preferences" have real life implications.

 

And you think it's just "sexual preferences" but really those "preferences" help decide your actions in your daily life from who you make friends with, who you pick to be in your group for class projects, who you sit next to on public transit, employees you choose to hire, who you grant bank loans to, neighborhoods you want to live in, etc.

 

Thank you! <3

 

I think we are digressing from the original question. Dating/hookup preferences are different from whether or not an escort should be able discriminate from seeing a client. One is paid, the other is not. I personally think every person has the right to date/hookup with who they find sexually attractive. But I also think if a paid escort discriminates based on race, they are in the wrong profession.

 

Pretty much.

[EastbayMike]

I think we 've been through this already: My sexual preference is for young caucasians only. So I would not go with any black/Asian /mix no matter how nice physique you think they have. Furthermore I do not like muscled guys. These are my purely sexual preferences that you insist calling racism.

Let me understand: race is the criterion you use to choose you sex partners , yet that isn't racist somehow? Like I said, own it.

[Lazarus]

Something must be wrong with me...I did not find one of those guys that Unicorn posted at all desirable. And I major in Black & Hispanic guys with a minor in Italians.

[PPP]

I always tell them upfront that I'm Mexican and overweight. Most of the times I don't hear back from them, it's a good way to save myself from having a bad experience. I'm glad to have my regular in town.

[Monarchy79]

I think we 've been through this already: My sexual preference is for young caucasians only. So I would not go with any black/Asian /mix no matter how nice physique you think they have. Furthermore I do not like muscled guys. These are my purely sexual preferences that you insist calling racism.

 

Baby,

 

You can dress up your biases however you choose to, to make yourself sleep well at night... that’s your prerogative.

 

But Helen Keller, Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder see what we all see....

 

You are a prejudiced, biased, racist.

 

Have an outstanding weekend. ?

[Monarchy79]

One final note....

 

Dressing up racial biases by calling them “preferences”, is just as effective as a pimp dressing up his whore in Chanel.

 

You’re still a racist, and she’s still a whore...

 

-M-

[Strafe13]

That's called designing a study to show a predetermined outcome. Obviously, there are some people who are racist and are turned off to a person physically because they're racist. So if you just survey people who are turned off by a certain race, you're going to pick up all of the racists along with those who are not, and in the group who are not turned off by a certain race, you'll therefore find far fewer racists (I do think it's safe to assume that it's very rare for someone who is racist to be sexually turned on by members of the race for which he's racist against). Even the very term they use to describe a racial sexual preference, "sexual racism," is a highly loaded term and points to the biases and intentions of the people who designed the study.

To illustrate, let take a hypothetical group of 100. 20 are racist, and dislike race X. 2 are racist, but in reality get turned on by race X. 20 are not racist, but don't get turned on by race X. The rest are neither racist and are fully capable of getting turned on by race X. If you did a survey of those who are and are not turned on by race X, you would find : Hey, 50% of people who aren't attracted to race X are racist, but only 2% of people who are attracted to race X are racist. While this does show an associated between dislike for race X and racism, it doesn't show causality. Association aside, racism and preference for certain races are separate issues.

I have a friend whose heritage is 100% Korean. I can tell you that he has never been turned on by Asian men, ever. There have been times I've gone out with him and pointed out a man I consider a smoking hot Asian, and I've said "Even that guy? You don't think he's attractive?" to which he replies negatively. He has plenty of Asian friends (and family, obviously), and I can assure you he's not the least bit racist. It's just a preference. I have another friend who has no interest in anyone over 5'7" (1.73 m). I point out hot tall men, and he's not interested. I point to a short guy and he goes nuts. We went out on a boat on a lake along with my Paraguayan ex and his short friend, and my friend was in ecstasy ogling the Paraguayan's short friend.

It certainly may be the case that much of our sexual preferences may be learned rather than acquired genetically or in the womb. I'm sure my sexual orientation itself was not learned. I don't know why I'm more attracted to men with dark hair, which I somehow associated with masculinity. Maybe it's because during my youth, Disney cartoon couples always showed the handsome man with darker hair and the woman with lighter hair. Whatever the reason, preferences and racism are separate issues.

https://cdn1.parksmedia.wdprapps.disney.com/media/blog/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/urtuyrt76958786-624x351.jpg

https://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/mp/bBnSLBoCXuZl.jpg

 

Oh my goodness. There's so much wrong with this that I don't even know how to wrap my head around it all. First, your general premise that preferences and racism are entirely separate issues is just flat out wrong, and I think you'd be hard pressed to find many credible social scientists who'd agree with that. As others in this thread have commented, what we find attractive, acceptable, reasonable, normal, etc., are not the result of benign innate mental processes. They're caused by a complicated mix of learned behavior and values, of which we may or may not be both consciously or unconsciously aware. Anecdotal stories do nothing to undermine the conclusion of a scientific study, even if it yields results that you find hard to accept, or uses terminology like sexual racism, with which you are uncomfortable. That you have an Asian friend who doesn't see other Asians as attractive doesn't prove that sexual preferences aren't a manifestation of racial prejudices. In fact it may prove the opposite - that white supremacy so infects our culture that it can result in someone who is unable to appreciate the physical beauty of people with whom he shares a racial or ethnic background.

 

"I do think it's safe to assume that it's very rare for someone who is racist to be sexually turned on by members of the race for which he's racist against."

-- Pardon my French, but are you freaking kidding me? Rather than being "safe," the general applicability of this assumption is pretty much conclusively disproved by human experience throughout history. That members of the African diaspora (i.e., black people from the Americas and Caribbean who are descendants of slaves brought to the "new world") have, on average, about 25% white European ancestry is living proof of the absurdity of this premise. There may be individuals to whom your assumption applies, but by and large, human beings can have all kinds of terrible beliefs and feelings about other groups of people but still be sexually attracted to members of those groups. Your conception of racism is way too limited, and these issues are far more complicated and multifaceted than your mostly anecdotal analysis will admit.

[+ sync]

As a client I've been hiring for 4 years now and what I've quickly learned is the escorting business has changed a lot over time and more so the past few years. The basic "rules" and standards are being thrown out the window more and more. In general most would think a provider should offer his services no matter what the client's age, race, etc is. Thats what he/she signed up for. elyNow I'd say that's not the case as much with providers either requiring pics, stats, background etc before following through with a booking. They definitely have that right to pick and choose also.

I began hiring many years ago, and you are so right about the business having changed a lot over time. In the old days it was zip,zip, "business is business." These days, in many cases, it appears the provider is also the picky client.

[marylander1940]

That's called designing a study to show a predetermined outcome. Obviously, there are some people who are racist and are turned off to a person physically because they're racist. So if you just survey people who are turned off by a certain race, you're going to pick up all of the racists along with those who are not, and in the group who are not turned off by a certain race, you'll therefore find far fewer racists (I do think it's safe to assume that it's very rare for someone who is racist to be sexually turned on by members of the race for which he's racist against). Even the very term they use to describe a racial sexual preference, "sexual racism," is a highly loaded term and points to the biases and intentions of the people who designed the study.

To illustrate, let take a hypothetical group of 100. 20 are racist, and dislike race X. 2 are racist, but in reality get turned on by race X. 20 are not racist, but don't get turned on by race X. The rest are neither racist and are fully capable of getting turned on by race X. If you did a survey of those who are and are not turned on by race X, you would find : Hey, 50% of people who aren't attracted to race X are racist, but only 2% of people who are attracted to race X are racist. While this does show an associated between dislike for race X and racism, it doesn't show causality. Association aside, racism and preference for certain races are separate issues.

I have a friend whose heritage is 100% Korean. I can tell you that he has never been turned on by Asian men, ever. There have been times I've gone out with him and pointed out a man I consider a smoking hot Asian, and I've said "Even that guy? You don't think he's attractive?" to which he replies negatively. He has plenty of Asian friends (and family, obviously), and I can assure you he's not the least bit racist. It's just a preference. I have another friend who has no interest in anyone over 5'7" (1.73 m). I point out hot tall men, and he's not interested. I point to a short guy and he goes nuts. We went out on a boat on a lake along with my Paraguayan ex and his short friend, and my friend was in ecstasy ogling the Paraguayan's short friend.

It certainly may be the case that much of our sexual preferences may be learned rather than acquired genetically or in the womb. I'm sure my sexual orientation itself was not learned. I don't know why I'm more attracted to men with dark hair, which I somehow associated with masculinity. Maybe it's because during my youth, Disney cartoon couples always showed the handsome man with darker hair and the woman with lighter hair. Whatever the reason, preferences and racism are separate issues.

https://cdn1.parksmedia.wdprapps.disney.com/media/blog/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/urtuyrt76958786-624x351.jpg

https://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/mp/bBnSLBoCXuZl.jpg

 

I agree with everything you say except the phrase I highlighted.

 

The Romans considered the Germanic tribes of Europe as inferior "cold weather makes them white, tall and stupid" yet they loved their blond women. Greeks also had similar feelings towards those barbarians but they weren't so attracted to Egyptians and others they saw as equal. Muslims in Spain also were attracted to Galician and Asturian women yet they considered Christians to be a civilization inferior to the Arab word.

 

Again, great post I simply disagree with that phrase!

[The_Impeccable_G]

Baby,

 

You can dress up your biases however you choose to, to make yourself sleep well at night... that’s your prerogative.

 

But Helen Keller, Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder see what we all see....

 

You are a prejudiced, biased, racist.

 

Have an outstanding weekend. ?

Thank you, I am having a sublime weekend in Mediterranean, at an island where I can fully enjoy my prejudgement, bias, racism, ageism and privilege. Actually there is a beach club named Privileged. ?

[The_Impeccable_G]

Let me understand: race is the criterion you use to choose you sex partners , yet that isn't racist somehow? Like I said, own it.

If race is a criterion to decide who I hire is racism. When it comes to sex, it is preference. Are you going to enforce me to have sex with people I do not like? Please let's stop this nonsense.

[+ goosh69]

Yes, this is the way it is. People don't even bother to find the personality of the ones they are not attracted. Alas it is a material and unfair world ?

 

not “people.” Men. Particularly gay men.

[EastbayMike]

If race is a criterion to decide who I hire is racism. When it comes to sex, it is preference. Are you going to enforce me to have sex with people I do not like? Please let's stop this nonsense.

How did you come to that conclusion?? Where in any of these posts did anyone say you should have sex with someone you're not attracted to? Nonsense indeed!

[The_Impeccable_G]

How did you come to that conclusion?? Where in any of these posts did anyone say you should have sex with someone you're not attracted to? Nonsense indeed!

I said that I have a certain preference for my sex partners and was called a racist. So to stop being a racist, I need to stop having any preferences for my sex partners. Just fuck everyone, even the ones I do not like. ?

[EastbayMike]

I said that I have a certain preference for my sex partners and was called a racist. So to stop being a racist, I need to stop having any preferences for my sex partners. Just fuck everyone, even the ones I do not like. ?

Or you could just admit your "preferences" are racist and move on.

[The_Impeccable_G]

Or you could just admit your "preferences" are racist and move on.

What is wrong with you?

[Guest]

Something must be wrong with me...I did not find one of those guys that Unicorn posted at all desirable. And I major in Black & Hispanic guys with a minor in Italians.

Wow. I would pay at least $500 to have my way with any of the men I showed. $1000 for most of them (including any of the 3 black men), and $2000 for Uriel Ramirez, a man I consider close to ideal. Amazing how tastes can differ, although we all grew up in the same culture. It speaks to a lot of the "Nature" in this "Nature/Nurture" discussion.

[Guest]

[Guest]

...

 

"I do think it's safe to assume that it's very rare for someone who is racist to be sexually turned on by members of the race for which he's racist against."

-- Pardon my French, but are you freaking kidding me? Rather than being "safe," the general applicability of this assumption is pretty much conclusively disproved by human experience throughout history. That members of the African diaspora (i.e., black people from the Americas and Caribbean who are descendants of slaves brought to the "new world") have, on average, about 25% white European ancestry is living proof of the absurdity of this premise. ...

 

All right, so what you're telling me is that it's very common for racists to be sexually attracted to the race they're racist against. So it sounds like you're just agreeing with me and saying that a person's racism and sexual attraction when it comes to race are separate issues. I'm glad you've come to agree with me. Thank you for illustrating my point.