Do I Need to Disclose My Race?

[Guest]

I think you need to do a little more research on the topic before you continue to dangerously enable and disseminate racist ideology.

OK. Please provide links to the scientific research studies, professor. I'm ears (and eyes).

[Palidod]

OK. Please provide links to the scientific research studies, professor. I'm ears (and eyes).

 

If you actually care about the topic of racism you would do the research on your own. Otherwise you're just being complacent - which really was already established with your previously response.

[caramelsub]

I think we are digressing from the original question. Dating/hookup preferences are different from whether or not an escort should be able discriminate from seeing a client. One is paid, the other is not. I personally think every person has the right to date/hookup with who they find sexually attractive. But I also think if a paid escort discriminates based on race, they are in the wrong profession.

[The_Impeccable_G]

I think we are digressing from the original question. Dating/hookup preferences are different from whether or not an escort should be able discriminate from seeing a client. One is paid, the other is not. I personally think every person has the right to date/hookup with who they find sexually attractive. But I also think if a paid escort discriminates based on race, they are in the wrong profession.

Of course they can. They can chose their customers as long they can afford it. Money will force them to be less choosy, or allow them to keep being selective.

[caramelsub]

Of course they can. They can chose their customers as long they can afford it. Money will force them to be less choosy, or allow them to keep being selective.

 

I didn’t say they can’t. I meant they should consider changing careers if they are selective about being paid for sex/their time.

[MidwestCoastal]

Oh the irony and perfect demonstration of when discrimination is 'acceptable' versus not.

 

I applaud @Unicorn showing us his version of men we should want to ravage, but looking at the many pics he has posted, it would seem to imply that only thin and muscular men are worthy of desire.

 

Bottom line.... we're all human beings - customers and service provides alike - with different tastes and preferences on what 'gets us off'. If your goal is for both sides to 'get off' then you can't discount our human condition. Providers who are open to more races, positions, and activities will have a larger customer pool, those who don't will have a smaller customer pool. Same with customers who are more open, they will have more choices.

 

Hard to imagine someone not wanting to ravage this man, but thank God not everyone has the exact same tastes, or the world would be a pretty boring place...

[Ajac]

I personally find when hiring I think of race as a Cheesecake Factory menu. Everything on it is delicious and once in a while I will try something new but have my favorites that seem to be in my main rotation of meals.

[Monarchy79]

I ll pass the above and stick to this ?

 

<a href="https://imgbb.com/">alt=Screenshot-2020-07-31-at-8-58-07-AMhttps://i.ibb.co/pRrrpPC/Screenshot-2020-07-31-at-8-58-07-AM.png[/img]

We know you would..... ?

[Monarchy79]

Oh the irony and perfect demonstration of when discrimination is 'acceptable' versus not.

 

I applaud @Unicorn showing us his version of men we should want to ravage, but looking at the many pics he has posted, it would seem to imply that only thin and muscular men are worthy of desire.

 

That wasn’t his purpose for posting those pictures.

what I got from him was this....

Most guys are attracted to guys that are hot. (Smooth skin, beautiful bodies, beautiful faces)....

To reject any of those guys, simply based on their race, proves that the idea of preference is not only ridiculous, but flat out racist....

 

@The_Impeccable_G , further proved this theory...out of all of the gorgeous white guys out there (I don’t have any racial preferences, I like them all), he posts a pic of a somewhat cute, but average looking white guy, with no physique, basically telling the world that he’d reject any of those hot guys of color, to prefer that, to support his racist ideologies.

 

The point is that when someone is racist, or has “preferences”, their biases are even stronger than one’s general sense of beauty standards.... they throw that all away, just to be with someone white.

[Monarchy79]

Well, a person can not be sexually attracted to someone and that doesn't mean he dislikes members of the group in general. I can't find any women the least bit attractive. That doesn't mean I hate women or am misogynist, or sexist or anything else except extremely gay. I have somewhat of a preference for caramel-colored skin, so I probably hire Latin men more often. I also like mixed-race. It doesn't mean I think Latin men are inherently better people. They just tend to get me off more easily and intensely. Other things get me more aroused, such as large nipples or a muscular physique. It's just a sexual preference, not something based on deep-rooted stereotypes.

 

Sexual orientation, or sexual preference towards a gender, is scientifically proven to be genetic, metaphysical, and innate.

 

Racial preference, is scientifically, psychologically, and sociologically proven to be a learned behavior.

 

The two are not the same.

 

Believe it or not, your attraction to Latin men, is learned, and at some point in your life, the idea of Latin men being sexy, came from a source of influence.

 

I’m not saying this is good or bad, but you were not born with that preference.

[The_Impeccable_G]

That wasn’t his purpose for posting those pictures.

what I got from him was this....

Most guys are attracted to guys that are hot. (Smooth skin, beautiful bodies, beautiful faces)....

To reject any of those guys, simply based on their race, proves that the idea of preference is not only ridiculous, but flat out racist....

 

@The_Impeccable_G , further proved this theory...out of all of the gorgeous white guys out there (I don’t have any racial preferences, I like them all), he posts a pic of a somewhat cute, but average looking white guy, with no physique, basically telling the world that he’d reject any of those hot guys of color, to prefer that, to support his racist ideologies.

 

The point is that when someone is racist, or has “preferences”, their biases are even stronger than one’s general sense of beauty standards.... they throw that all away, just to be with someone white.

I think we 've been through this already: My sexual preference is for young caucasians only. So I would not go with any black/Asian /mix no matter how nice physique you think they have. Furthermore I do not like muscled guys. These are my purely sexual preferences that you insist calling racism.

[Monarchy79]

I think we 've been through this already: My sexual preference is for young caucasians only. So I would not go with any black/Asian /mix no matter how nice physique you think they have. Furthermore I do not like muscled guys. These are my purely sexual preferences that you insist calling racism.

 

Ahhh,

 

Racial “preference”, sprinkled with a little bit of ageism too....

 

Is it Peter Pan you seek, my friend?

?

[The_Impeccable_G]

Ahhh,

 

Racial “preference”, sprinkled with a little bit of ageism too....

 

Is it Peter Pan you seek, my friend?

?

I don't see any need to analyse my likes and dislikes. I just enjoy life. Maybe you should do the same.

[xyz48B]

“I prefer” and “I only like” are different kinds id statements.

 

“I prefer” and “I like” are also different, but different in a different way than above.

 

The problem isn’t attraction; the problem is the blanket statement of preference that would rule out anything different. For one who is so keen to insist on enjoying life and its offerings, @The_Impeccable_G seems quite happy to only look at a small portion of the menu. Sure – he might enjoy that kind of life, but it’s very limited. Hardly imbibing deeply from life’s fountain!

[MidwestCoastal]

Oh the irony.... And again.... you prove the point perfectly.

 

"Most guys are attracted to guys that are hot. (Smooth skin, beautiful bodies, beautiful faces).... "

 

You have basically just said that hairy guys with average bodies, and imperfect teeth will never be hot..... Thanks for YOUR OPINION! I don't share it.

 

Where did your definitions of 'hot' come from? Smooth skin? 'Beautiful bodies' = Thin and muscular? Beautiful faces? Based on what? I don't even know where to start with that one. - These are ALL subjective and qualitative. What is 'nature' and what is 'nurture'? As an example hairy versus smooth in the gay community has flip-flopped in all directions over the decades. The 'smooth muscular body' crowd tends to be from the circuit scene, Chelsea NYC crowd; Provincetown Bear Week attendees would vehemently disagree with you.

 

To the point of other posters, the 'gay white men' are more attractive thing has the same roots in historical learned biases. It has been taught and ingrained in culture for decades and we are all somewhat products of that history. You can't selectively say that 'white is beautiful' is wrong, without acknowledging that other forms of discrimination exist.

 

To bring this thread back to the spirit of the original post.... As an example, if a provider accepts an appointment from a perspective bottom client and then proceeds to show up and can't get an erection and can't perform as a top, should they still expect payment?

 

Think carefully before you respond to the question I pose above.

 

 

That wasn’t his purpose for posting those pictures.

what I got from him was this....

Most guys are attracted to guys that are hot. (Smooth skin, beautiful bodies, beautiful faces)....

To reject any of those guys, simply based on their race, proves that the idea of preference is not only ridiculous, but flat out racist....

 

@The_Impeccable_G , further proved this theory...out of all of the gorgeous white guys out there (I don’t have any racial preferences, I like them all), he posts a pic of a somewhat cute, but average looking white guy, with no physique, basically telling the world that he’d reject any of those hot guys of color, to prefer that, to support his racist ideologies.

 

The point is that when someone is racist, or has “preferences”, their biases are even stronger than one’s general sense of beauty standards.... they throw that all away, just to be with someone white.

[Monarchy79]

I don't see any need to analyse my likes and dislikes. I just enjoy life. Maybe you should do the same.

Ummm.....

 

You originally posted your “preferences”, on this forum, I didn’t.

[The_Impeccable_G]

“I prefer” and “I only like” are different kinds id statements.

 

“I prefer” and “I like” are also different, but different in a different way than above.

 

The problem isn’t attraction; the problem is the blanket statement of preference that would rule out anything different. For one who is so keen to insist on enjoying life and its offerings, @The_Impeccable_G seems quite happy to only look at a small portion of the menu. Sure – he might enjoy that kind of life, but it’s very limited. Hardly imbibing deeply from life’s fountain!

Ah the grammar police ?

 

I am pretty happy with the small portion. The very best.

[Monarchy79]

Oh the irony.... And again.... you prove the point perfectly.

 

"Most guys are attracted to guys that are hot. (Smooth skin, beautiful bodies, beautiful faces).... "

 

You have basically just said that hairy guys with average bodies, and imperfect teeth will never be hot..... Thanks for YOUR OPINION! I don't share it.

 

Where did your definitions of 'hot' come from? Smooth skin? 'Beautiful bodies' = Thin and muscular? Beautiful faces? Based on what? I don't even know where to start with that one. - These are ALL subjective and qualitative. What is 'nature' and what is 'nurture'? As an example hairy versus smooth in the gay community has flip-flopped in all directions over the decades. The 'smooth muscular body' crowd tends to be from the circuit scene, Chelsea NYC crowd; Provincetown Bear Week attendees would vehemently disagree with you.

 

To the point of other posters, the 'gay white men' are more attractive thing has the same roots in historical learned biases. It has been taught and ingrained in culture for decades and we are all somewhat products of that history. You can't selectively say that 'white is beautiful' is wrong, without acknowledging that other forms of discrimination exist.

 

To bring this thread back to the spirit of the original post.... As an example, if a provider accepts an appointment from a perspective bottom client and then proceeds to show up and can't get an erection and can't perform as a top, should they still expect payment?

 

Think carefully before you respond to the question I pose above.

 

You’re projecting your own body image issues and injecting that into this discussion (which isn’t relevant).....

 

Even in Provincetown, among a group of liberated bears of all shapes and sizes, the issue of race is still a problem. My point of mentioning “hot guys”, wasn’t meant to shame fat, hairy, or any other body type.... it was in response to pictures posted, that even race supersedes one’s general sense of attraction to characteristics anyone can have.

So to your point....

 

Even in a group of hairy-backed, barrel-bellied bears, there will still be Asians, Latinos, and Blacks of the SAME body type, that will be rejected because of their race, as its “just a preference”.....

[Monarchy79]

Oh the irony.... And again.... you prove the point perfectly.

 

 

You have basically just said that hairy guys with average bodies, and imperfect teeth will never be.

 

 

I didn’t say that, you did.....

[Monarchy79]

You’re projecting your own body image issues and injecting that into this discussion (which isn’t relevant).....

 

Even in Provincetown, among a group of liberated bears of all shapes and sizes, the issue of race is still a problem. My point of mentioning “hot guys”, wasn’t meant to shame fat, hairy, or any other body type.... it was in response to pictures posted, that even race supersedes one’s general sense of attraction to characteristics anyone can have.

So to your point....

 

Even in a group of hairy-backed, barrel-bellied bears, there will still be Asians, Latinos, and Blacks of the SAME body type, that will be rejected because of their race, as its “just a preference”.....

 

And about those liberated bears....?

 

https://instinctmagazine.com/new-article-calls-out-lack-of-diversity-in-the-marketing-of-bear-circuit-events/

[Monarchy79]

Oh the irony.... And again.... you prove the point perfectly.

 

"Most guys are attracted to guys that are hot. (Smooth skin, beautiful bodies, beautiful faces).... "

 

You have basically just said that hairy guys with average bodies, and imperfect teeth will never be hot..... Thanks for YOUR OPINION! I don't share it.

 

Where did your definitions of 'hot' come from? Smooth skin? 'Beautiful bodies' = Thin and muscular? Beautiful faces? Based on what? I don't even know where to start with that one. - These are ALL subjective and qualitative. What is 'nature' and what is 'nurture'? As an example hairy versus smooth in the gay community has flip-flopped in all directions over the decades. The 'smooth muscular body' crowd tends to be from the circuit scene, Chelsea NYC crowd; Provincetown Bear Week attendees would vehemently disagree with you.

 

To the point of other posters, the 'gay white men' are more attractive thing has the same roots in historical learned biases. It has been taught and ingrained in culture for decades and we are all somewhat products of that history. You can't selectively say that 'white is beautiful' is wrong, without acknowledging that other forms of discrimination exist.

 

To bring this thread back to the spirit of the original post.... As an example, if a provider accepts an appointment from a perspective bottom client and then proceeds to show up and can't get an erection and can't perform as a top, should they still expect payment?

 

Think carefully before you respond to the question I pose above.

 

White gay bears crack me up...

 

You fight for “equality”, over image, to refute the body fascism, perpetuated by the waxed and pruned “muscle twink”, you vehemently loathe, all to create your own scene that literally MIRRORS the scene that you accused of bias....

 

Now that’s the true irony...

 

https://sdlgbtn.com/news/2018/06/26/public-facebook-bear-community-group-no-africans-no-asians

[+ DrownedBoy]

https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2015-30734-001

 

"In May 2011, 2177 gay and bisexual men in Australia participated in an online survey that assessed how acceptably they viewed online sexual racism. Although the men sampled displayed diverse attitudes, many were remarkably tolerant of sexual racism. We conducted two multiple linear regression analyses to compare factors related to men’s attitudes toward sexual racism online and their racist attitudes more broadly. Almost every identified factor associated with men’s racist attitudes was also related to their attitudes toward sexual racism. The only differences were between men who identified as Asian or Indian. Sexual racism, therefore, is closely associated with generic racist attitudes, which challenges the idea of racial attraction as solely a matter of personal preference."

 

This is the only post in this thread that addresses the truth of the issue, a scientific study with hard statistics.

 

Anecdotes and personal feelings mean nothing. Yet people are ignoring the only solid piece of science here.

 

Typical.

[Monarchy79]

Oh the irony.... And again.... you prove the point perfectly.

 

" Provincetown Bear Week attendees would vehemently disagree with you.

 

 

Don’t you mean Provincetown POLAR Bear Week attendees? ?

 

Where there’s ....

95% Polar Bear ✊?

5% Grizzly Bear ✊?

5% Panda Bear✊

 

???

So much for “diversity”

[jeezifonly]

All in for being honest. I’m a client and I always disclose. I rarely ask if not evident in the profile. But I’m caucasian, and therefore have not been subjected to rejections and conflict based on race which is 180 degrees from the experience known by too many people of color, here and all over the place, in uncountable ways, every damn day, for centuries. The System is finally under needed scrutiny, making us all hypersensitive about how we reconcile it in ourselves in this time, and how we can act in positive ways. Professional, financial, judicial, educational, and other means of discrimination by race, have to be course-corrected immediately, with the law (remember the law?) behind the implementation of restructuring.

 

At the same time, I believe that when seeking a personal or sexual relationship of any sort, that societal factors that MUST create change should not carry the same mandate into interpersonal arrangements, whether dinner date, spouse, partner, FB, Sugar Daddy, BoyToy, or a just nice back rub- we should all be honest with ourselves and with each other, and be allowed, without answering to outsiders, as to who and what we find attractive and suited to achieving a consensual personal relationship goal. I for one don’t find any race or ethnicity to be an exclusionary factor for any personal or sexual relationship. I think the appeal of race and ethnicity, relative to one’s self, is just one of all the parts that make up one’s “type” and can change over time. Age, height, build, coloring, voice, body hair, personality, sexual versatility, body mods, musical tastes, dick size. We ALL sort by importance of these traits and more, depending on what we’re looking for, and the exclusionary factors will shift, with additional permanence and commitment we may want - ambition, intelligence, values, culture, ethnicity and race all factors to be weighed for personal and sexual relationships. Personal sexual relationships are... personal.

Obviously the bulk of personal “relationship goals” we talk about here can be met in the course of a couple hours time and a mutually agreed quid pro quo. For some, the success will absolutely depend on ticking off a few boxes chosen from a very limited menu. For clients, some will not hire unless they are assured a sizable pounding from a verbal top. For providers, some won’t be comfortable maneuvering a client who over a certain age or weight, and others will never (or always) guarantee their own climax. But as personal as the interaction feels in the moment, we need to understand that it is business as well, and it wouldn’t hurt to incorporate some better, more inclusive business practices. Perhaps we can all reflect on our standard sorting methods, and strive consciously to move ethnicity and race lower in the order of priority of exclusion when it comes to arranging the potential relationships we refer to here. Providers and clients can all honor the agreement once made: be clear about limits and expectations, payment, confirm an hour ahead, show up, on time and as represented, don’t renegotiate half way through, and all try to be as generous as possible with our respective quids and quo’s. We can be more respectful of boundaries, less dismissive of what we haven’t experienced for ourselves, be more open to new ideas and people, and we can all be kinder in the way we approach, set up and resolve our transactions, and save the filthy behavior for the bedroom, (or kitchen counter... or dungeon...or choir loft...) where it belongs.

[Epigonos]

In reality the answer here is simple. In a perfect world, one in which we do not live, things such as race, age and size should be irrelevant BUT they aren't always. I, for example, ALWAYS disclose my age, soon to be 80, as I would prefer to have the escort I'm interested in cease texting or emailing me upon learning my age rather than having him slam the door in my face when I arrive at his place. I find the idea of rejection through texting and emailing much preferable to in my face rejection. I've been hiring now for over eighteen years and to my recollection only one potential hire discontinued communication with me once I told him my age.

Now from the other side of the hiring duo, the vast majority of us who hire have our own preferences (prejudices). I will readily admit that I'm a body fascist. I mostly hire guys with bodybuilder or gymnast type bodies. With that said I've hired Black guys, Asian guys, Hispanic guys, Older guys, and Caucasian guys with the body types that appeal to me. I, however, have not hired any of the above type of guys who sport twink bodies. I taught high school for thirty plus years and I want to have sex with MEN not boys. Is that a preference or am I prejudice - WHATEVER - that's me.

Edited August 1, 2020 by Epigonos