Escort talks too long - should he get paid for it?

[+ StLouisOct]

I'm interested in opinions on Friday's Daddy's Reviews of Leo in which the client complains that Leo talked too much and the time extended into a second hour. Leo was deemed unreasonable for demanding an extra hour of pay. I enjoy talking to my escorts and can keep a conversation going – an we’re likely naked and cuddling. It seems to me that if I've paid for an hour and we go over I need to be aware of the fact and call it quits or suggest that his company is great but I can't afford to pay for more. If he wants to stay and enjoy my company off the clock it's up to him. On the other hand, if a client is shy and isn't participating in the conversation (perhaps Leo liked to tell long, one-sided stories) it seems to me that Leo should say, "I'm going on too long, do you want to pay for extra time?" My assumption is that the conversation described was not entirely one-sided, so I think much of the responsibility is with the client. Some guys are pretty passive though and I'd hope a real professional escort would take charge of managing the time. Thoughts?

[+ robear]

I'm on the client's side here. I believe most clients make an appointment upfront for a specific time and fee. If that is to increase, there must be a further agreement before the extension happens. While a client should be mindful of time, the onus is on the provider to attend to his services and he REALLY shouldn't assume the client will pay extra if he just dawdles.

 

As in this review, I rarely carry much more cash than covers the fee and possibly tip money. The scenario of a provider demanding he accompany a client to an ATM to withdraw cash is frightening, and certainly reflects badly on the provider (whom I note doesn't dispute the client's description of the event).

[MiamiLooker]

The referenced review is for Theo Ford not Leo. Based on the client's description of the session and Theo's response, it sounds like Theo is running a pretty successful scam.

[spider]

When the agreed upon time is close to passing and we're just cuddling and yacking I take the initiative and depending on where we are say either "I should let you go" or "It's time for me to go". If the guy just settles back in and keeps yacking or says "don't worry about it" he's made that choice and I'm not paying him more. If he say's "I guess you're right" we end the session. Never had an issue.

[+ WilliamM]

I've hired two porn guys who talked on and on, but neither wore a watch, and seemed not to care about charging for additional time.

 

Theo had a right to ask for more money, but it was the client's decision.

Accompanying a client to an ATM is way outside normal behavior.

 

Excellent way for the provider to never get repeat clients.

Edited February 8, 2019 by WilliamM

[LaffingBear]

Something similar happened to me many years ago. Early internet days, a rentguy was enthusiastically describing internet access for travelers. In response to my show of interest, pulled out his laptop, demonstrated wifi, etc. Wasted 25-30 minutes. I was actively engaged during that time. But then, 25-30 minutes into interactive time, he announced "time's up." And when I expressed concern the internet stuff was a waste of time, he replied that time is time, doesnt matter how its spent.

 

Technically, he was right. But, I learned an important lesson about retaining focus, controlling time, in these situations.

=============================

Time management efforts over the years:

Turn on the old fashioned clock radio in hotel rooms to play 60-min music. Music stops, "times up" reminder

 

Ive frequently offered off-the-clock time to guys. Guys visiting town will accept a ride to the gym. Or a tour of SF. Accompany me to a restaurant... or to get their protein at Whole Foods, then eat in-store with me.

 

I ask politely, offer a friendly service to a visitor. I'd estimate 75% decline. But quite a few have said yes when I ask as preparing to leave their hotel room in SF.

 

Never ask if I'm in their city, and they're at my hotel.

Edited February 9, 2019 by LaffingBear

[JayCeeKy]

Once again we clients sometimes mistake a business transaction as a dating experience. I was just watching the documentary "Swinging Richards" on Amazon Prime Video and was struck by something a dancer said: "Audience members should always remember that the dancers are here for the money, not for sex." Whenever I hire an escort I always note, as soon as he sits down and makes himself comfortable, what time it is and when we are scheduled to end - thus the contract is established and time parameters defined. Having said that, in the Theo review, I completely agree with the reviewer that he was scammed and believe that the escort needed to renegotiate the agreement with the added time/cost explained and agreed upon. Ambiguity in business transactions never end well.

[+ nycman]

Any time an escort stays more than 5 minutes past our agreed time,

I make it clear that I enjoy his company, but we are now off the clock.

 

If there seems to be “mutual” enjoyment in the conversation, I will

invite him to join me for dinner “off the clock”. Some accept, many politely

decline. None, to my knowledge, have been offended. Nor have I.

 

Everyone that has accepted my dinner offer has ended up back on the clock,

often for an overnight after dinner at my request.

 

With regards to the incident at hand, I think the escort is running a scam.

As a client I would have reacted the way I always do. I would have told him,

politely but firmly, to leave without any additional compensation.

[+ Keith30309]

It seems prudent that if two gentlemen are meeting for the first time or not familiar with each others’ expectations that both be aware of the clock.

 

If I’m with someone and our time has drawn to a close but conversation continues I begin to mention that I want to be respectful of his time, etc.

I always meet guys for 2+ hours just so there’s some meaningful conversation time built in.

No one has ever asked me for more money because we spent more time together than planned but if I made a good faith attempt to draw the meeting to a close and met some resistance I don’t see myself being bullied into giving anyone more money. In the occasions when I have gone overtime with someone it’s been by mutual agreement.

[Dmitri]

I see 2 issues with Theo here:

 

1) Theo had agreed to a certain time frame and price with the client. When the session was "over" and Theo was still babbling, he should not charge the client for his excessive babbling. And if Theo was babbling, and was aware he was going to be charging extra than the agreed upon amount, he should have stopped babbling at that point and asked the client if he wanted to go an extra hour, and told him what the fee would be. What Theo did was wrong, asking for extra money, when Theo was the one that made the session run over.

 

2) My biggest issue though was Theo's response. It was a complete turn off. It was cocky (really, starting out your response with a laugh?...hahaha) He was basically laughing off the whole thing, like it was no big deal, and on top of that called his client's review "weird". He already has an upset client, but showed no respect to this guy he took advantage of. His response was unprofessional, rude, disrespectful, and showed he could care less how he treats his clients. He is one escort I will be sure to avoid.

[Mo Mason]

I don't think Theo's response seemed cocky or rude at all - rather, friendly. A lot friendlier than I would have responded were I in his shoes.

 

But I do think the time issue is the responsibility of the escort in these situations. They are the business professionals so they should be the ones to make sure the session ends when it's supposed to.

[BluDay]

Time is hard to manage in this situation. I generally think it's up to the escort to keep an eye on the clock, in part because for a good escort the client is not going to be able to think about time But in this case, it wasn't activities that when over, it was conversation. I agree clients pay for time, but it seems like a hustle if you're listening to the escort just talk and he wants money.

[MikeBiDude]

This has come up before:

https://www.companyofmen.org/threads/how-should-i-address-the-concept-of-time-with-a-client.135323/

https://www.companyofmen.org/threads/time-management-and-watching-the-clock.85059/

https://www.companyofmen.org/threads/clients-who-dont-watch-the-clock.46739/

[Zapped]

This reminds me that one has to be careful about friendly chat time with a lawyer—you can really run up the clock there, too. Right or wrong about this situation, the escort in question is unlikely to have a long career. And lesson learned for the client.

 

I’m also reminded of a phrase some of us use from time to time—one of the things we pay an escort to do is to leave, so we don’t have to listen to a young guy babble on and on. I’m a college professor—there are times when someone comes in to talk that I have to use every trick I’ve learned from therapists on ending a session politely, especially of there is not someone else waiting.

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

... one of the things we pay an escort to do is to leave, so we don’t have to listen to a young guy babble on and on

 

Yikes.

 

Sometimes I'm glad we can't easily connect a screen name with reality. Ignorance is bliss.

Edited February 9, 2019 by Benjamin_Nicholas

[Guest Lonlyboy]

This reminds me of a normal massage I got years ago. It was an Asian guy who I agreed to a 60 min massage for x amount per normal. It was odd because he just seemed really slow like he was dragging it out.

I of courses was not faced near the clock so I couldn't see but I felt like it was going long.

I finally turned and looked at clock. He was 15 min over the hour and had not even asked me to roll over.

I said well I have an appointment so we need to wrap it up.

He said oh we went over the hour but I can let that slide this time.

It made me think he really was trying to drag on to get cash out of me.

[+ tassojunior]

Everyone is different. Justbecause most aren't clockwatchers doesn't mean all aren't. or that they're bad.

 

Adam, a fantastic guy in Prague is a sweetheart but he is on tight schedule and when his watch says 12 you turn into a pumpkin, all talk or juct sex, no matter.

 

Why I dispense with more than a few words at the beginning.

[+ WilliamM]

This reminds me that one has to be careful about friendly chat time with a lawyer—you can really run up the clock there, too. Right or wrong about this situation, the escort in question is unlikely to have a long career. And lesson learned for the client.

 

I’m also reminded of a phrase some of us use from time to time—one of the things we pay an escort to do is to leave, so we don’t have to listen to a young guy babble on and on. I’m a college professor—there are times when someone comes in to talk that I have to use every trick I’ve learned from therapists on ending a session politely, especially of there is not someone else waiting.

 

Your second paragraph reminds me of my six grade teacher, just back from a mandatory one-day teachers conversation.

 

She said to the entire class, "I am often surprised at how many teachers dislike children."

[Walker1]

My experience has been escorts/masseurs watch the clock. I have had a masseur turn it into an escort session close to the end, but he was clear about pricing and what was involved-so no issues. You can't charge someone without letting them know? That is a scam.

[Zapped]

Your second paragraph reminds me of my six grade teacher, just back from a mandatory one-day teachers conversation.

 

She said to the entire class, "I am often surprised at how many teachers dislike children."

 

That’s good—you got me!

 

Well, look, I love my students and I like talking with them. And one has to set boundaries. Just as therapists and other professionals do. So I guess I put that while in too snarky a mood.

 

If someone’s in a real crisis, I’m there for them as long as they need to talk and I direct them to the professional counseling services on campus, which they are often afraid to visit. I’m a good listener, and a caring person, and if a student is talking about a subject of mutual interest I’ll talk for as much time as I have.

 

And sometimes there’s a limit to how much adolescent romantic and other drama I have space for after doing this as long as I’ve been doing this. Which is one reason I’m retiring and shifting careers.

 

If you don’t work regularly with people in late adolescence, just ask yourself how much of your own free time you would really want to spend hearing about the private lives of 18-21 year olds. If you do work professionally with this age group, how much of your off-the-clock time do you spend just socializing with kids that age? I’m pretty sure very few teachers (no matter how effective and dedicated) or therapists or physicians who work with adolescents spend much extended time socializing with adolescents.

 

I’m sorry if BN or anyone else was offended by my “you pay the escort to leave” quote. It’s here in these forums that someone else pointed that out long ago. While I restated it overly dismissively, there is an aspect to any professional relationship where it is about the work being paid for. Even in the friendliest context, very often what we pay for is some human connection and, if our social needs are met otherwise, to act out a particular sexual fantasy. I’ve dated guys in their late teens and early 20s, and it was exhausting at times. I’ve had absolutely great times with escorts for an hour or two and, I’ll be honest, I really was happy to have the encounter and then to have it over. I’ve also had hookups that were great, but they were just that, hookups, not the starts to beautiful friendships.

 

So, you hire an escort for an hour or two and hit it off and it’s nice. That doesn’t mean he’s now your boyfriend to spend time with you “off the clock.” He’s got a life.

 

Similarly, if you’re an escort and really like the client, that doesn’t mean he’s going to become your friend, or want to hear about your issues with your mother or your boyfriend or girlfriend or whomever. Especially on the clock!

 

I’m acutely aware I am an asshole sometimes, and if this is one of those times, I’m sure someone will point it out (again).

 

Meanwhile, I just had a great exchange with a student here in the dining hall and now I’ll do grade some papers.

[MassageDrew]

Whether it is an appointment with a new provider or someone I’ve booked more than once, I like to be always aware of the time. I actually sat one afternoon and just waited. Be somewhat conscious when 15 minutes had past then half an hour. Like others had posted, I don’t wear a watch so it is up to me to be mindful of it. I do enjoy a good conversation but I’m hiring for the fun of it and not yapping. If he’s talking me to death then I’ll just take control of the situation and initiate the physical interaction. Give him the signal that talk is over. It’s time for some fun. If he cannot get into it then he’s just there to milk it and get paid for yapping. It’s time to end the session altogether. If you’re waiting for the provider to initiate it, and for the most part they will, then someone like Theo/Leo will take advantage of it for more $$.

[Zapped]

By the way, I finally read the review that started this whole thread. It sounds like the reviewer thought he was being polite listening to the guy talk, and the escort assumed the client just wanted the company and was planning to and.or should pay for it.

 

Differing unspoken expectations of each other. Which is why it is always best to make expectations clear.

 

I once hired an escort for an hour and we agreed to keep the option open for a second hour. Our time together was enjoyable, but it was clear he wasn't that into me sexually. We both came before the first hour was up. As we got to the one-hour mark, he was lying in my arms rather sleepily and it was clear we weren't going to have a round 2. So I mentioned to him the hour was about up. He said, "oh I thought you wanted the second hour," and I said no, and he said OK, and was happy and eager to get back to his boyfriend.

 

Now it's entirely possible that had I been lonelier and more financially comfortable I'd have wanted to pay for an additional hour of cuddling/sleeping. But I wasn't particularly lonely and the money was a bit of a stretch. And I can see why he would have assumed I wanted him to stay, since I hadn't said anything to the contrary, and why I might have been happy to pay for "his time" and body contact.

 

I actually thought he was asleep. He was, I think, pretending to be asleep, and, having already come, probably not looking forward to the second hour but willing to do his best for the money. Had I been "nice" and let him sleep, which occurred to me, then he probably would have wanted to be paid. As I'm writing, it's coming back to me that he pretty much jumped out of bed once it was clear I didn't want to pay for another hour.

 

Getting expectations explicit is very helpful! I started having less tension with my husband when I realized I was upset with him for not meeting expectations I hadn't made explicit. Turns out he's not a mind reader. And he's from Asia, and there are some very different cultural expectations. A topic for another time. . . .

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

I’m sorry if BN or anyone else was offended by my “you pay the escort to leave” quote

 

I don't know you and I don't make it a point to be offended by strangers.

 

Bottom line, more than anything, it was a callous statement to me: A phrase used by guys who have likely been damaged or see this as just another mechanical exchange of pleasure for money. For me, the belief in that statement is more sad than anything.

 

Time with the right escort- a guy you can really connect with in a wide variety of ways- can be an incredible thing. Perhaps you don't want to experience that, but it makes me all the more happy that the guys I see do.

[Zapped]

I don't know you and I don't make it a point to be offended by strangers.

 

Bottom line, more than anything, it was a callous statement to me: A phrase used by guys who have likely been damaged or see this as just another mechanical exchange of pleasure for money. For me, the belief in that statement is more sad than anything.

 

Time with the right escort- a guy you can really connect with in a wide variety of ways- can be an incredible thing. Perhaps you don't want to experience that, but it makes me all the more happy that the guys I see do.

 

I have been damaged, no question. Because of my financial circumstances, I've never been in a position to hire for more than an hour here or there, and it's been to fulfill specific fantasies. Even in some of those, I've felt the guys were healers and I feel deep gratitude to them.

 

What I've never been able to do is to hire someone regularly, or for an overnight, or for multiple days. It's clear to me that this would be an entirely different sort of experience. The kind of experience you provide, BN, is literally out of my league--but I have no doubt it is extraordinary. And I really doubt anyone pays you "to go away"!

 

Now I have a terrific husband, also damaged and healing, and we are healing together.

 

Meanwhile, I'd say that I have worked with terrific therapists and personal-development coaches and personal trainers and massage therapists and, earlier in life, music teachers, and for the most part our professional relationships have been great and warm and beneficial but rarely were we interested in the details of each other's personal lives or have a social relationship outside our professional relationship. Admiration and warmth and genuine connection, all there. Ina professional context.

 

I did become friends with one trainer, who had grown up with two moms, and suffered some homophobia, and who I think saw me in part as a father figure and asked for some business/career advice on occasion.

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

I have been damaged, no question. Because of my financial circumstances, I've never been in a position to hire for more than an hour here or there, and it's been to fulfill specific fantasies. Even in some of those, I've felt the guys were healers and I feel deep gratitude to them.

 

What I've never been able to do is to hire someone regularly, or for an overnight, or for multiple days. It's clear to me that this would be an entirely different sort of experience. The kind of experience you provide, BN, is literally out of my league--but I have no doubt it is extraordinary. And I really doubt anyone pays you "to go away"!

 

Now I have a terrific husband, also damaged and healing, and we are healing together.

 

Meanwhile, I'd say that I have worked with terrific therapists and personal-development coaches and personal trainers and massage therapists and, earlier in life, music teachers, and for the most part our professional relationships have been great and warm and beneficial but rarely were we interested in the details of each other's personal lives or have a social relationship outside our professional relationship. Admiration and warmth and genuine connection, all there. Ina professional context.

 

I did become friends with one trainer, who had grown up with two moms, and suffered some homophobia, and who I think saw me in part as a father figure and asked for some business/career advice on occasion.

 

 

I appreciate this reply. It gives me some insight, appreciation and understanding. Thank you for that.