JB_Studio38

As an update: The biz seems very sleepy right now. I’m hoping my next move to some different markets will help jumpstart my schedule back to action. I had a decent weekend of a couple bookings (a return and a fan) but since then not a whole lot. Idk if there’s less clients or much more providers, but it feels like the momentum just isn’t there rtn. I had a client tell me the other day, “I thought you were (in his area) 3-4 weeks ago”. How? People see an ad and don’t quite get it that it doesn’t mean there today. Then when I’m ready to go, ironically everybody either busy or has Covid. Over it 🤦🏽‍♂️

I think there may need to be some “clarifying” of the topic. For me, it’s gotten to a point where I haven’t even really been able to meet friends. Most everyone I meet now is from a hookup app, client or the very occasional bar guy. But it always seems that: if it’s not mutual sexual attraction, it’s nothing. Or, if we do meet and there’s mutual attraction, the friendship is over soon as things don’t seem able to pan out or they too fucking lazy to put any effort in making things work.

I’ve been in sort of a quandary with this lately. Sure it’s come up before, but for 2022 it needs to be discussed again lol. Over the past couple/few months I’ve really hit rock bottom as far as my social life goes. I literally have no “nearby” friend circle and the ones I do have are out of state who I see maybe every couple or so months. I’ve pretty much given up on the dating circuit because all it seems are people with potential who end up not panning out. I’ve already had like 4-5 dead end “dating” situations since the summer. Sometimes I can’t always see where escorting may have a direct effect on any of those situations, considering the guys really weren’t all that perfect themselves (either rude, judgey, or not really serious about anyone long term). But, I do feel like the nature of the biz doesn’t naturally let us meet people in a platonic environment. I had a guy last month who met me as a client awhile back, but we agreed to meet “off clock” because there was a mutual attraction established. But that quickly dissipated on my end because he invited me to a hotel where he was snowed in with his airport co-workers, and couldn’t even have the decency to be seen anywhere in the common areas with me…because he “didn’t want his co-workers asking questions”. It’s things like that which really give off a disrespectful vibe to me. I also cultivated friendship with another client, but anytime we hung out, it was always under his (and his partner’s) schedule. Eventually that lead to a fallout, and even though we’re on better terms, we haven’t hung out since Labor Day weekend. Another client friend told me about Facebook gay men’s social, but I kinda tried those types of meetup groups, and it doesn’t work for me. I don’t like to be around too many random “personalities” without a real purpose of meeting. To me it still feels like being on Adam4Adam or Grindr, but just with a little extra engagement. Not really into it. How have other guys adjusted or make it work in favor? I’ll also mention that, most of my local “friends” are (single, not married) clients now. I’ll hang with them off clock and every now and then they’ll want to book me and it’s fun. However, most are a bit older than me, and sometimes the difference in “energy” (many clients also don’t like to go to bars, happy hours, or the latest gay club events. And that’s been a big part of my social life and meeting others) makes it to where I can’t hang with them “every” weekend kind of way.

I’d have to wonder how many people actually do that anyway. One of my peeves is when someone contacts me, and then can’t recall who they reached out to. There’s been the once in a blue time someone contacted me and expected someone else to show up. That’s why nowadays I really have to make sure they have all the details at time of contact.

Yah that’s definitely a given. However, being it’s beyond our realms of control. We can only hope the proper measures are taken to address that and ensure the best possible mitigation. At the same time, the effect could go either way. If there’s a mass immigration from Ukraine, there may be a new segment of providers/clients developing as well. But I wouldn’t know when, or what cities that may be noticed in. Depends who gets designated as a refugee City. I can see that being the case. I’m currently posting in cities in advance of my visits, but apart from a few interested responses, the schedule seems a bit up in the air on who will show up. Almost a matter of just getting there and seeing who I can fill….in (pun)

Trying to consolidate 2 different questions here. Hope it doesn’t confuse lol. But, I’m curious if other providers feel the impending “war” will play an effect on us? I know for me, it’s already seeming to be the case since I need (to pay) fuel to get to bookings, often in other cities. Also, what do clients and escorts feel about the large number of RentMen guys on the market nowadays? I’m seeing cities that only had a handful of guys back in 2010, now having double or triple the amount of ads. There’s a known fact that many of these ads aren’t “real”, But I personally don’t snoop into profiles and read reviews or get into investigating how another guy operates unless we are in a setting for that. This comes on the heels of the thread about Full time/part time escorts. At this rate, and with RentMen not showing any rates, I’m just not sure where the biz is going to go. I’d be kidding myself if I said I’m not a bit concerned 😦

It’s a challenging scenario, but I’ve done it a few times. Many, in fact. I am really into 3, 4, even 5 ways. I’ve done it with clients and escorts I’ve never met the 1st time. It’s pretty much like a live porn (without the film crew) and I find it sexy and adventurous. The only time I wouldn’t appreciate it, is if we were at a public setting and the escort happened to show up. I had that occur couple times before, but 1 didn’t go well. After being at a restaurant for nearly half hour or longer, he chose the other provider over me. Not even a 3 way. Then had the gall to say, “you can join but I’m only paying him “. I seriously wanted to kill that client. (I was a bit younger and not in tune with my emotions or the concept of blacklisting/cancellation fees at the time) 😆 Fortunately, another (local) client contacted me on my way home…he became a regular and turned out we shared a mutual friend. So it was really a blessing in disguise. The other escort died off the market after a few months. To disparage a provider in front of another provider in a public setting, is the lowest form of integrity. Most escorts don’t sign up for an in person “audition”. We are quite aware of that in our postings already. Once we have a client, we want to feel we have the client. Not go thru an additional challenge with another provider. That said, if a provider agrees to do a session with another…by all means. No harm no foul!

I think the key is: timing. Okay. It’s not about someone reaching out to other providers, it’s the tact behind it. It takes a bit of integrity and patience to be able to understand, but…that’s what’s missing today. I can’t necessarily say what is “adequate” timing, but if trying to get something accomplished it’s a good idea to just give people time. I know gay male sex often defies all logic and principles and many want it “ASAP”, but there’s a time and a place for that.

I just gotta joke with you: Asian can be anywhere from Russia to China to India to Saudi. So, you have to specify which All-Asian look you're referring to 😉 But if you're talking about China/Japan/Vietnam/Laos...I can see that especially in the west coast, but I've seen a good number of "East Asian" clients. So, don't be fooled into believing that Asian guys only go for White guys. Plus (and this is no invitation to an argument or debate), like I said earlier...I believe "all American" guys have a tendency to generalize on certain subjects. So, you can't just hear from one "type" of source. I have one locally who often hits me up. However there is a truth in that, especially on the west coast. I've been to San Diego, Los Angeles and San Fran a few times, but hadn't met any Asian clients there. But in Saint Louis I had 1 Asian client and 2 Asian friend with benefit.

I appreciate your point of view, I really do. But: I don’t really need to see it differently based on what I already said. I already clarified: everyone’s definition of success in escorting will vary. And if that person has a separate income stream, what they may be happy with may not suit someone who’s doing it full time. One guy working a 9 to 5 may be okay with 1 or 2 clients a week. Someone doing this full time may wish to see 3 or 4 clients a week. If the full time escort is only getting the amount of bookings the part time escort is getting: that’s not going to be the same perspective. And that’s not taking into consideration many times, it’s never “per” week but more of an “average”. At the end of the day: if someone wants to do a 9 to 5 and escort, more power to them. You’re insinuating it’s a wiser choice, which respectably, it can be for different reasons. However that doesn’t speak for everyone. For example: the other day on a MONDAY (hypothetical work day), I had a client who contacted me at 11:45 a.m. in a city at a hotel I was at (I’m getting ready to checkout at 12:30 because if I’m just visiting a small market just to take clients, if I don’t get any word by mid-morning, I don’t want to chance paying for an extra day without having any bookings). I’ve done that many times, and it’s a gamble and a waste of money. Now, this will also tie into your “flake” discussion, but I’m just going to show you it’s not just the flakiness, but the level of stupidity some of these guys are on. He contacts saying, “hi welcome back to town”. Mind you, I’ve never met the guy, but he did contact me previously. Last time he pussied out when I asked for a deposit to arrange a session. So this time, I reminded him again: And I told him; “I can meet you, but last time you had an issue with my deposit policy. If you want to meet, you need to be here by 12:30. He’s like, okay yeah I can be there by then. I send map with approximate location and the blue dot. Sure enough, he’s like, “oh I can’t make it there by 12:30, I thought you were downtown”. And I’m like okay, I can give you until 1, but you need to send the deposit so I know you’re coming. He’s like, “oh I’m not comfortable with sending that”. Obviously he didn’t forget what my policy is, and it’s there in the ad. But as it relates, if I had a regular 9 to 5, I wouldn’t be able to see him anyway because many times, people want to book the daytime sessions…and unless it’s a night time job (which is often common with restaurant/retail), there could be a lot of bookings missed between the hours of 9 to 5. So if I take that route, it would make it very part time. I’d just be taking the occasional night time bookings when they come, which isn’t very often in places like Kansas City and St. Louis and other “closeted” markets. At the same time, I agree wholeheartedly that it’s tough out here. The whole male escort/masseur market has been consolidated onto just a couple of platforms: RentMen/RentMasseur with a handful of copy profile sites. So when I get into my next market, I likely will pick up a side job to cover the bases.

Okay let me just first clear the air on something, because I don’t want to spend much time addressing it: This site’s well thought design made it easy that I didn’t have to look far to find who I was referring to. By “all American” I mean: I know that’s doesn’t “define” All American” (that could be any and every native-born American) but it’s similar to the grocery stores: The “international food” section and the “ethnic hair” section is generally a “safe” way of saying Chinese/Mexican/Black without necessarily “referring” to that. We have to be very politically correct when discussing race lol.

I am in agreement with all that. I wasn’t trying to make it like I’m fixated on what is considered “desirable” in the market because, I realize I have my own following to entertain and that’s sufficient. I guess I was just feeling some type of way, and making sure I can understand the perception of it all. I still wish things were a bit balanced, You citing age differences isn’t really as biased as race based differences. A 23 year old White escort and a 23 year old Black escort may still experience a different experience regardless.

They “gotta” be White because that’s who it is I’m referencing in this particular discussion. Plain and simple. It’s not racial generalizations, it’s the actual demographic that make up the majority of timewasters and bullshit mother fuckers who have proven to be such. I know because I screen every booking that comes thru to me, and based on the results, that’s who it shows. Many of the timewasters contacting on RM sites are the White guys (some even send pictures and STILL end up being fakes). Not saying other races don’t (I’ve had my share of Black clients be bullshit MoFos too, and in some markets it’s far too common)…but, it’s the White “clients” that generally do most of the game playing out here. Idk if they do it with just the Black providers, or everyone. And in case I have to make it obvious: I’m talking about @Kevin Slaterand @Rod Hagenare different ethnicities from ME. From ME. (I’m actually just under 30% White though, so we’re not “too” distant 😆 Why do I even need to clarify that?? lol First off: I didn’t take it as offense. I agree with all the points you made, but when you made it about me, by saying “you”, that’s where you went in error. And then I had to clarify that. Because what you did: was say, “other black guys are in the business and doing well”…which insinuated that I’m not. That’s why I corrected you. On top of that, @Storm4U just said in another thread, that he quit his Massage business. Idk what his particular reasons for it was, whether it was because business related or not, but obviously it’s some indication that some providers have reasons for leaving.

Let me just address something ASAP: just because I bring up a conversation about something, does not mean I’m broke or struggling. Just to clear that up. I don’t think it’s necessary to compare me to another escort because one’s definition of success may be different than mine. Similar to what I said to someone previously: He said $1,200 a month doesn’t sound like much (which was not my earnings). $1,200 a month to a part time escort/masseur with a Mon-Fri. job may be successful. $1,200 a month to a full time escort like myself, may not meet their goals. And if an escort can make $1,200 in 4 days (true story on my 1st trip to San Francisco), that can certainly make $1,200 a month feel like nothing. That said: I’m pretty cognitive that much of it is due to location of one’s market. You compared me to 2 Black providers, one who lives in L.A. and the other who lives in Atlanta. Both of those places reach a large audience, but they’re also popular with competition and flakes. I know because I have been to each location more than a couple of times to know. And since I made this thread, the White provider in question hasn’t even had his ad up. He went from Gold to Basic, to disappeared. So maybe his claim that he’s sooo busy was bluff. I know for a fact Kansas City/St. Louis (Saint Louis fairs a bit better though, however it still gets regular lulls to where I don’t like to be home more than a week or 2 at a time) are not busy markets, except busy with flakes. Many of the White “client’s” in this area pretend to be clients, and then never fucking show up. So, it may “seem” like you’re doing well…and rightfully so, but in reality the numbers don’t add up. I think before you try to assume some shortcoming about me, you should read the other thread about Full time/part time escorts. Several guys said they could not do it Full time because it’s not reliable enough. I said I am doing it full time. So, obviously, there’s guys who’s success is assisted by their main job: which isn’t bad, BUT the real test of success is going to be who can do this as their main or sole job, and feel the same way. So far only @Kevin Slater and @Rod Hagen have said they been only doing sex work. And considering the difference in ethnicities, the question still remains…

Ya, I wish there were more like you out there. But, there's just some shitty guys out here in the gay sex world. Lately, it's been so bad that I don't even have a desire to meet with any dudes who aren't paying me. Not because I'm greedy or all about money, but because they don't appreciate it. It is just bad. Guys out here come to the table only to get something for nothing. The quality of guys were actually better during the pandemic. Now, it's just tragic. So when I see text exchanges like above, it just reiterates. The bossy, bitchy, and moody attitudes are pervasive. At some point, somebody has to say; "let me treat you the way YOU want to be treated".

I love your ever forgiving, relaxed approach to some things, but in this case it seems a bit more than anxiety and awkwardness. Like @maninsoma described, the interaction didn't share much, but rather had the goal of the escort doing all the leg work. This lead to frustration and aggravation on both parties, which apparently is a big deal considering how much of an epic fail it was. Now, a distrust has been created and if the poster never came here to discuss it, you'd just have 2 people with no understanding of how to fix it and avoid it next time. Thus, the cycle repeats. And he's not the only one, because I just had a similiar client last week "give me permission" to block him as well after I told him to stop wasting my time asking about explicit activities if he can't figure out when he's available. Yet he's the one who's been contacting me since July 2021...I have a block for him, and it comes in a size 13 cowboy boot 🤠 Some clients can use a bit of feedback on how not to book an escort. And to me, that's a big deal. I agree. "Normal" on app culture and normal when contacting a sex worker isn't quite the same thing. One thing that nobody has mentioned: "what's your rate, do you bareback" technically that's considered the "P" word, and even though a properly screened client doesn't pose a risk, for a client to text a provider this puts the client at risk for a charge (suppose this escort was a cop), and the escort at risk for a charge (if the client was a cop).

That's cool and understandable. But, I don't see it as having all eggs in the sex work basket. I just see it as being focused and prioritizing sex work. I'm not trying to argue or disagree, but I see it more as some people like being busy and having multiple things going on. Which is fine. However, as seamless as it may sound, I know reality is it doesn't always go that way. Projects take longer, unexpected clients may book, and suddenly your plate is full and something (or someone) gets pushed to the back burner. I do the same thing, except I prefer to use my non-sex work hours doing hobbies, modeling gigs, traveling, gym, etc. Traveling while in a part-time job may appear to some as being irresponsible, the reality was: traveling was part of a greater access to opportunities that would have otherwise not been present where I was at the time. At the same time, I can still see the merits in having other income streams for the reasons stated. However I still stand behind the fact that there seems to be less recognition to those who are mainly just doing sex work. Though: not sure if that extends to massages and video material as well. A sex worker may only do sex work but still have 3-4 jobs (escort, masseur, porn star, model). I guess it's all relative and at the discretion of a person's financial goals.

Dude, I'm talking about something years ago that I did to reach a short time goal. I didn't "ask" for the work, they needed the workers because it was a fairly high turn over position. It wasn't something I really wanted to do anyway, but I tried it, and realized I could do better for myself just prioritizing sex work. Which I did. It was easier to make $500 in a night than $500 in commission at the other place. So, don't assume and be condescending..

Unfortunately, I differ on sides here and don’t share the other’s perspective: it sounds like both of you were hot headed, and regrettably, you came off like I just mentioned in another thread the other day. I can elaborate on each point: #1: your 1st text comes off a bit badgering, and you’re asking 3 questions in one text (the first text at that), without volunteering any info about yourself. That’s the 1st mistake. #2: You didn’t address the escort by name. That immediately comes off a bit disconnected. You don’t include your name either, just a profile screenname. #3: Asking if someone barebacks in a 1st message shows off the bat disrespectful, and my experience is that many clients who start that way end up being just that. There’s been clients who admit on the forum they’ll ask escorts that, not because they want bareback, but to “suss” out if they play safe. #4: Don’t ask an escort how long they are in town. People often ask me that when I’m traveling, and I just say: when are YOU looking for? If the escort can’t make it, they’ll let you know. Don’t think ahead of the pace of the conversation. There’s been many times I’ve stayed in a city an extra day or 2 longer than planned for a confirmed client. I wasn’t in a rush to leave town, and I have flexible means of travel. #5: By the time you say sigh, you’ve just disrespected the escort again. Setting up a visit with an escort isn’t the time to give off sarcastic vibes. #6: Your last message resorted to being a bully and you stormed off like a petulant child. Block you? What’s with clients thinking escorts need permission to block them? Again, you called the escort first, not the other way around! What would have been better is to apologize, and simply offer a time and day that would work. You came to him 1st, with a need. You have to yield his procedures or how he wishes to arrange appointments. Even if you had to wait a few minutes and think about it. To approach him with a bossy attitude was absolutely uncalled for. That was your 6th mistake. However, I will say: thanks for posting this. It shows you’re willing to learn, from your mistakes. I think if more people would discuss these things, it would make for a better escort/client relationship. In your favor, the escort didn’t really do a whole lot either to bridge the conversation gap. One word responses and curbing questions completely don’t really drive things in the right direction. However, you were the kindling to his fire, and instead of creating love…y’all created this:

Fair enough. I know you don’t want to “Whoopi” yourself into that ”viewpoint” 😆 Like the gay guys on hookup apps always say: “it’s not about race, it’s about preference 🧐 ” Now…if only there was that same energy when it came down to issues more specified with the gay sex work society.

Do you guys mind elaborating on “unpredictable” and perhaps giving others a perspective? Though I can understand the reasoning for having it part time, I think it can still work out full time if one reserves the time to make it be so. At the same time, not every market will allow that to be the case. I know I can’t do it full time in the city I’m in, but when I combine it with a consistent travel schedule…it can quickly suppress the routine of a full time job. I tried doing this and doing a part time job at the same time, it didn’t work for me. I wanted to travel for a few days, they told me if I did, I couldn’t come back. I personally feel sex work (using the phrase across multiple outlets) is a full time job, provided you’re in the right market and have the drive. If I had a full time job doing this, I don’t see how I could want to take clients at the unpredictable hours they sometimes ask for. I’d be tired from working all day… At the same time, having something going on during the lulls of the business throughout the day seems reasonable. The downside: I have noticed a select mentality of “clients” out there, who seem to feel less responsible about following thru, when they “tell themselves” we’re just guys hanging around the sites for entertainment. As if, we all have normal jobs somewhere in outer space…and just posting for shits and giggles and a little bit of “fun” money. I occasionally have to drop the reality bomb on some, and let them know. Treat me with the same respect you’d want to be treated if you were expecting to get paid.

Hmm, possibly. But to me it still seems like racism. People may want to think it isn’t, but it often is. Especially in the Middle America market. It’s also usually the White potential clients contacting with the game playing and BS (despite also making up a majority of the client base). Not to mention, when one of my White friends came to Kansas City last year, he had a decent schedule of clients. Meanwhile it was pretty slow on my schedule. However, it could have just been his new guy novelty. But aside from a few occasional locals and visitors who come to the area, that's general how it's been. Even today I had to deal with someone unreasonable. He asked for 30 minute session, then says the rate too much (which is actually something I don't even offer, but in trying to accommodate). Despite the compromise, still managed to be a complete flake but I didn't take much time entertaining. Regardless... It's annoying. Why the fuck these people contact intending to be rude and disrespectful, and play games, I have no idea. And majority of them are White. So, I have a hard time believing it's not racism. It's racism because they don't think I deserve to be paid, or paid fairly enough for my time and effort. Then they try to get free explicit chat time, when they knowingly have 0 intent to go thru with meeting for an appointment. It may be more due to an aversion to gay sexuality/acceptance (this area has a lot of closet cases), or aversion to providers (there seems to be a lot of “sex work” haters here, and in all of the state, only St. Louis and Kansas City has any sizable market. Everywhere else in the state is dead). But…I still don’t rule out micro aggression. It’s their attitude. Their demeanor. The original post was “White guys” instead of “All-American”, but I didn’t want to make like I’m singling out on 1 subject versus the bigger picture. That said, in 2022 it seems like most every American has some form of tattoos or piercings.

Hmm, possibly. But to me it still seems like racism. People may want to think it isn’t, but it often is. Especially in the Middle America market. It’s also usually the White potential clients contacting with the game playing and BS (despite also making up a majority of the client base). Not to mention, when one of my White friends came to Kansas City last year, he had a decent schedule of clients. Meanwhile it was pretty slow on my schedule. However, it could have just been his new guy novelty. But aside from a few occasional locals and visitors who come to the area, that's general how it's been. Even today I had to deal with someone unreasonable. He asked for 30 minute session, then says the rate too much (which is actually something I don't even offer, but in trying to accommodate). Despite the compromise, still managed to be a complete flake but I didn't take much time entertaining. Regardless... It's annoying. Why the fuck these people contact intending to be rude and disrespectful, and play games, I have no idea. And majority of them are White. So, I have a hard time believing it's not racism. It's racism because they don't think I deserve to be paid, or paid fairly enough for my time and effort. Then they try to get free explicit chat time, when they knowingly have 0 intent to go thru with meeting for an appointment. It may be more due to an aversion to gay sexuality/acceptance (this area has a lot of closet cases), or aversion to providers (there seems to be a lot of “sex work” haters here, and in all of the state, only St. Louis and Kansas City has any sizable market. Everywhere else in the state is dead). But…I still don’t rule out micro aggression. It’s their attitude. Their demeanor.

That is true…Considering the lockdowns happened in March-May 2020, it was a perfect season for many to utilize the ole high school track. I was actually fine because it gave me an excuse to not workout and focus only on jogging the track lol. But: to some degree, having hotel gyms closed and regular gyms/personal trainers out did affect things for many. Even though the small towns in Missouri only closed for a measly 2 weeks (as if it was just a bad case of stomach flu and would go away that quickly 🙄 I realize some states did endure longer closings. Or, it was mask only exercising. I had to do that in Santa Fe last year: 7,000 ft elevation and trying to workout with a mask on: No fun.

Exactly. Notice how he said, “I didn’t schedule anything or make you miss another appointment”. As if, it’s okay to talk to someone that way AND not even show up. Just like you said, annoying and disrespectful. First of all, that’s showing 0 respect for the provider considering I could be reading that message in a position where it’s not appropriate by all means. Of course I never engaged or agreed, I just kept it right to the point. And while I’m on the topic: the bareback/breeding seeking clients are the #1 timewasters out there! I’m almost about to just block any of them who approach me asking for that. If he didn’t show up back in July, why would I expect him to show up now. That said: I don’t mind providing the service to clients, who are throughly “prepared”. I just got tested for everything and was negative. However, its not generally a service I agree to before meeting. If I sense the client isn’t hygienic, I won’t do it. This type of stuff goes on all week in my market. One thing I miss about RentBoy, it used to attract a bit more respectful clients. Idk why these days RentMen just attracts so much game players nowadays. Idk if it’s because the disappearance of Craigslist and backpage have affected the ecosystem or what. Like I say, it used to be the same guys on Rentboy in the smaller markets. Now, everytime I look around there’s a new guy popping up on the scene (and disappearing just as fast)