JB_Studio38

Okay let me just first clear the air on something, because I don’t want to spend much time addressing it: This site’s well thought design made it easy that I didn’t have to look far to find who I was referring to. By “all American” I mean: I know that’s doesn’t “define” All American” (that could be any and every native-born American) but it’s similar to the grocery stores: The “international food” section and the “ethnic hair” section is generally a “safe” way of saying Chinese/Mexican/Black without necessarily “referring” to that. We have to be very politically correct when discussing race lol.

I am in agreement with all that. I wasn’t trying to make it like I’m fixated on what is considered “desirable” in the market because, I realize I have my own following to entertain and that’s sufficient. I guess I was just feeling some type of way, and making sure I can understand the perception of it all. I still wish things were a bit balanced, You citing age differences isn’t really as biased as race based differences. A 23 year old White escort and a 23 year old Black escort may still experience a different experience regardless.

They “gotta” be White because that’s who it is I’m referencing in this particular discussion. Plain and simple. It’s not racial generalizations, it’s the actual demographic that make up the majority of timewasters and bullshit mother fuckers who have proven to be such. I know because I screen every booking that comes thru to me, and based on the results, that’s who it shows. Many of the timewasters contacting on RM sites are the White guys (some even send pictures and STILL end up being fakes). Not saying other races don’t (I’ve had my share of Black clients be bullshit MoFos too, and in some markets it’s far too common)…but, it’s the White “clients” that generally do most of the game playing out here. Idk if they do it with just the Black providers, or everyone. And in case I have to make it obvious: I’m talking about @Kevin Slaterand @Rod Hagenare different ethnicities from ME. From ME. (I’m actually just under 30% White though, so we’re not “too” distant 😆 Why do I even need to clarify that?? lol First off: I didn’t take it as offense. I agree with all the points you made, but when you made it about me, by saying “you”, that’s where you went in error. And then I had to clarify that. Because what you did: was say, “other black guys are in the business and doing well”…which insinuated that I’m not. That’s why I corrected you. On top of that, @Storm4U just said in another thread, that he quit his Massage business. Idk what his particular reasons for it was, whether it was because business related or not, but obviously it’s some indication that some providers have reasons for leaving.

Let me just address something ASAP: just because I bring up a conversation about something, does not mean I’m broke or struggling. Just to clear that up. I don’t think it’s necessary to compare me to another escort because one’s definition of success may be different than mine. Similar to what I said to someone previously: He said $1,200 a month doesn’t sound like much (which was not my earnings). $1,200 a month to a part time escort/masseur with a Mon-Fri. job may be successful. $1,200 a month to a full time escort like myself, may not meet their goals. And if an escort can make $1,200 in 4 days (true story on my 1st trip to San Francisco), that can certainly make $1,200 a month feel like nothing. That said: I’m pretty cognitive that much of it is due to location of one’s market. You compared me to 2 Black providers, one who lives in L.A. and the other who lives in Atlanta. Both of those places reach a large audience, but they’re also popular with competition and flakes. I know because I have been to each location more than a couple of times to know. And since I made this thread, the White provider in question hasn’t even had his ad up. He went from Gold to Basic, to disappeared. So maybe his claim that he’s sooo busy was bluff. I know for a fact Kansas City/St. Louis (Saint Louis fairs a bit better though, however it still gets regular lulls to where I don’t like to be home more than a week or 2 at a time) are not busy markets, except busy with flakes. Many of the White “client’s” in this area pretend to be clients, and then never fucking show up. So, it may “seem” like you’re doing well…and rightfully so, but in reality the numbers don’t add up. I think before you try to assume some shortcoming about me, you should read the other thread about Full time/part time escorts. Several guys said they could not do it Full time because it’s not reliable enough. I said I am doing it full time. So, obviously, there’s guys who’s success is assisted by their main job: which isn’t bad, BUT the real test of success is going to be who can do this as their main or sole job, and feel the same way. So far only @Kevin Slater and @Rod Hagen have said they been only doing sex work. And considering the difference in ethnicities, the question still remains…

Ya, I wish there were more like you out there. But, there's just some shitty guys out here in the gay sex world. Lately, it's been so bad that I don't even have a desire to meet with any dudes who aren't paying me. Not because I'm greedy or all about money, but because they don't appreciate it. It is just bad. Guys out here come to the table only to get something for nothing. The quality of guys were actually better during the pandemic. Now, it's just tragic. So when I see text exchanges like above, it just reiterates. The bossy, bitchy, and moody attitudes are pervasive. At some point, somebody has to say; "let me treat you the way YOU want to be treated".

I love your ever forgiving, relaxed approach to some things, but in this case it seems a bit more than anxiety and awkwardness. Like @maninsoma described, the interaction didn't share much, but rather had the goal of the escort doing all the leg work. This lead to frustration and aggravation on both parties, which apparently is a big deal considering how much of an epic fail it was. Now, a distrust has been created and if the poster never came here to discuss it, you'd just have 2 people with no understanding of how to fix it and avoid it next time. Thus, the cycle repeats. And he's not the only one, because I just had a similiar client last week "give me permission" to block him as well after I told him to stop wasting my time asking about explicit activities if he can't figure out when he's available. Yet he's the one who's been contacting me since July 2021...I have a block for him, and it comes in a size 13 cowboy boot 🤠 Some clients can use a bit of feedback on how not to book an escort. And to me, that's a big deal. I agree. "Normal" on app culture and normal when contacting a sex worker isn't quite the same thing. One thing that nobody has mentioned: "what's your rate, do you bareback" technically that's considered the "P" word, and even though a properly screened client doesn't pose a risk, for a client to text a provider this puts the client at risk for a charge (suppose this escort was a cop), and the escort at risk for a charge (if the client was a cop).

That's cool and understandable. But, I don't see it as having all eggs in the sex work basket. I just see it as being focused and prioritizing sex work. I'm not trying to argue or disagree, but I see it more as some people like being busy and having multiple things going on. Which is fine. However, as seamless as it may sound, I know reality is it doesn't always go that way. Projects take longer, unexpected clients may book, and suddenly your plate is full and something (or someone) gets pushed to the back burner. I do the same thing, except I prefer to use my non-sex work hours doing hobbies, modeling gigs, traveling, gym, etc. Traveling while in a part-time job may appear to some as being irresponsible, the reality was: traveling was part of a greater access to opportunities that would have otherwise not been present where I was at the time. At the same time, I can still see the merits in having other income streams for the reasons stated. However I still stand behind the fact that there seems to be less recognition to those who are mainly just doing sex work. Though: not sure if that extends to massages and video material as well. A sex worker may only do sex work but still have 3-4 jobs (escort, masseur, porn star, model). I guess it's all relative and at the discretion of a person's financial goals.

Dude, I'm talking about something years ago that I did to reach a short time goal. I didn't "ask" for the work, they needed the workers because it was a fairly high turn over position. It wasn't something I really wanted to do anyway, but I tried it, and realized I could do better for myself just prioritizing sex work. Which I did. It was easier to make $500 in a night than $500 in commission at the other place. So, don't assume and be condescending..

Unfortunately, I differ on sides here and don’t share the other’s perspective: it sounds like both of you were hot headed, and regrettably, you came off like I just mentioned in another thread the other day. I can elaborate on each point: #1: your 1st text comes off a bit badgering, and you’re asking 3 questions in one text (the first text at that), without volunteering any info about yourself. That’s the 1st mistake. #2: You didn’t address the escort by name. That immediately comes off a bit disconnected. You don’t include your name either, just a profile screenname. #3: Asking if someone barebacks in a 1st message shows off the bat disrespectful, and my experience is that many clients who start that way end up being just that. There’s been clients who admit on the forum they’ll ask escorts that, not because they want bareback, but to “suss” out if they play safe. #4: Don’t ask an escort how long they are in town. People often ask me that when I’m traveling, and I just say: when are YOU looking for? If the escort can’t make it, they’ll let you know. Don’t think ahead of the pace of the conversation. There’s been many times I’ve stayed in a city an extra day or 2 longer than planned for a confirmed client. I wasn’t in a rush to leave town, and I have flexible means of travel. #5: By the time you say sigh, you’ve just disrespected the escort again. Setting up a visit with an escort isn’t the time to give off sarcastic vibes. #6: Your last message resorted to being a bully and you stormed off like a petulant child. Block you? What’s with clients thinking escorts need permission to block them? Again, you called the escort first, not the other way around! What would have been better is to apologize, and simply offer a time and day that would work. You came to him 1st, with a need. You have to yield his procedures or how he wishes to arrange appointments. Even if you had to wait a few minutes and think about it. To approach him with a bossy attitude was absolutely uncalled for. That was your 6th mistake. However, I will say: thanks for posting this. It shows you’re willing to learn, from your mistakes. I think if more people would discuss these things, it would make for a better escort/client relationship. In your favor, the escort didn’t really do a whole lot either to bridge the conversation gap. One word responses and curbing questions completely don’t really drive things in the right direction. However, you were the kindling to his fire, and instead of creating love…y’all created this:

Fair enough. I know you don’t want to “Whoopi” yourself into that ”viewpoint” 😆 Like the gay guys on hookup apps always say: “it’s not about race, it’s about preference 🧐 ” Now…if only there was that same energy when it came down to issues more specified with the gay sex work society.

Do you guys mind elaborating on “unpredictable” and perhaps giving others a perspective? Though I can understand the reasoning for having it part time, I think it can still work out full time if one reserves the time to make it be so. At the same time, not every market will allow that to be the case. I know I can’t do it full time in the city I’m in, but when I combine it with a consistent travel schedule…it can quickly suppress the routine of a full time job. I tried doing this and doing a part time job at the same time, it didn’t work for me. I wanted to travel for a few days, they told me if I did, I couldn’t come back. I personally feel sex work (using the phrase across multiple outlets) is a full time job, provided you’re in the right market and have the drive. If I had a full time job doing this, I don’t see how I could want to take clients at the unpredictable hours they sometimes ask for. I’d be tired from working all day… At the same time, having something going on during the lulls of the business throughout the day seems reasonable. The downside: I have noticed a select mentality of “clients” out there, who seem to feel less responsible about following thru, when they “tell themselves” we’re just guys hanging around the sites for entertainment. As if, we all have normal jobs somewhere in outer space…and just posting for shits and giggles and a little bit of “fun” money. I occasionally have to drop the reality bomb on some, and let them know. Treat me with the same respect you’d want to be treated if you were expecting to get paid.

Hmm, possibly. But to me it still seems like racism. People may want to think it isn’t, but it often is. Especially in the Middle America market. It’s also usually the White potential clients contacting with the game playing and BS (despite also making up a majority of the client base). Not to mention, when one of my White friends came to Kansas City last year, he had a decent schedule of clients. Meanwhile it was pretty slow on my schedule. However, it could have just been his new guy novelty. But aside from a few occasional locals and visitors who come to the area, that's general how it's been. Even today I had to deal with someone unreasonable. He asked for 30 minute session, then says the rate too much (which is actually something I don't even offer, but in trying to accommodate). Despite the compromise, still managed to be a complete flake but I didn't take much time entertaining. Regardless... It's annoying. Why the fuck these people contact intending to be rude and disrespectful, and play games, I have no idea. And majority of them are White. So, I have a hard time believing it's not racism. It's racism because they don't think I deserve to be paid, or paid fairly enough for my time and effort. Then they try to get free explicit chat time, when they knowingly have 0 intent to go thru with meeting for an appointment. It may be more due to an aversion to gay sexuality/acceptance (this area has a lot of closet cases), or aversion to providers (there seems to be a lot of “sex work” haters here, and in all of the state, only St. Louis and Kansas City has any sizable market. Everywhere else in the state is dead). But…I still don’t rule out micro aggression. It’s their attitude. Their demeanor. The original post was “White guys” instead of “All-American”, but I didn’t want to make like I’m singling out on 1 subject versus the bigger picture. That said, in 2022 it seems like most every American has some form of tattoos or piercings.

Hmm, possibly. But to me it still seems like racism. People may want to think it isn’t, but it often is. Especially in the Middle America market. It’s also usually the White potential clients contacting with the game playing and BS (despite also making up a majority of the client base). Not to mention, when one of my White friends came to Kansas City last year, he had a decent schedule of clients. Meanwhile it was pretty slow on my schedule. However, it could have just been his new guy novelty. But aside from a few occasional locals and visitors who come to the area, that's general how it's been. Even today I had to deal with someone unreasonable. He asked for 30 minute session, then says the rate too much (which is actually something I don't even offer, but in trying to accommodate). Despite the compromise, still managed to be a complete flake but I didn't take much time entertaining. Regardless... It's annoying. Why the fuck these people contact intending to be rude and disrespectful, and play games, I have no idea. And majority of them are White. So, I have a hard time believing it's not racism. It's racism because they don't think I deserve to be paid, or paid fairly enough for my time and effort. Then they try to get free explicit chat time, when they knowingly have 0 intent to go thru with meeting for an appointment. It may be more due to an aversion to gay sexuality/acceptance (this area has a lot of closet cases), or aversion to providers (there seems to be a lot of “sex work” haters here, and in all of the state, only St. Louis and Kansas City has any sizable market. Everywhere else in the state is dead). But…I still don’t rule out micro aggression. It’s their attitude. Their demeanor.

That is true…Considering the lockdowns happened in March-May 2020, it was a perfect season for many to utilize the ole high school track. I was actually fine because it gave me an excuse to not workout and focus only on jogging the track lol. But: to some degree, having hotel gyms closed and regular gyms/personal trainers out did affect things for many. Even though the small towns in Missouri only closed for a measly 2 weeks (as if it was just a bad case of stomach flu and would go away that quickly 🙄 I realize some states did endure longer closings. Or, it was mask only exercising. I had to do that in Santa Fe last year: 7,000 ft elevation and trying to workout with a mask on: No fun.

Exactly. Notice how he said, “I didn’t schedule anything or make you miss another appointment”. As if, it’s okay to talk to someone that way AND not even show up. Just like you said, annoying and disrespectful. First of all, that’s showing 0 respect for the provider considering I could be reading that message in a position where it’s not appropriate by all means. Of course I never engaged or agreed, I just kept it right to the point. And while I’m on the topic: the bareback/breeding seeking clients are the #1 timewasters out there! I’m almost about to just block any of them who approach me asking for that. If he didn’t show up back in July, why would I expect him to show up now. That said: I don’t mind providing the service to clients, who are throughly “prepared”. I just got tested for everything and was negative. However, its not generally a service I agree to before meeting. If I sense the client isn’t hygienic, I won’t do it. This type of stuff goes on all week in my market. One thing I miss about RentBoy, it used to attract a bit more respectful clients. Idk why these days RentMen just attracts so much game players nowadays. Idk if it’s because the disappearance of Craigslist and backpage have affected the ecosystem or what. Like I say, it used to be the same guys on Rentboy in the smaller markets. Now, everytime I look around there’s a new guy popping up on the scene (and disappearing just as fast)

I live in Missouri. Remind you. Ask me if it gets any less diverse than this. The whole state is one big supremacy group, including the gay bars 🤦🏽‍♂️ . I’m pretty certain I’ve unknowingly fucked with a few White Supremacy guys before…I don’t mind at all 😆 long as he don’t try to kill me, let me fuck that tatted daddy ass 😋

When I used the word “invest” I wasn't necessarily talking about the business world definition of it. I was using that more to relate to things that someone could do (invest) if they feel they need to suggest I can be doing something better. Okay? It’s easy to tell someone an opinion but very few actually want to (invest) their own money into it. And just to be clear, I wasn’t looking or expecting that from someone. I’ve been doing it myself all along. The whole scenario is merely hypothetical. That said: some people have done that. One friend sold me a vehicle for an amazing price, and lent me an air bnb for a day when he checked out early. Others have done either regular or one off things that have made a difference. Of course: I’ve helped in return as well. Being “kept”: that’s something else. and not something I look for. I’ve seen guys who are actually “kept”. That’s not me.

I’m getting ready to do just that…I’m loading up and driving to the Pacific Northwest next week. If I find a place, great. Tired of this shit. I deserve so much better than the rude guys I been dealing with in the Midwest. And to quote @sniper again: it’s easy to be on the sidelines and make it seem like I’m the only person bothered. But when I constantly deal with repetitious idiots so much, it’s hard not to be. For example: this idiot has been contacting me on and off since July last year, and still can’t get around to a booking: Completely disrespectful, and no consideration for my time. It may not be directly related to racism per say, but it’s still a racist mentality in some ways when someone thinks they’re more important, just because maybe they’ve been conditioned to feel that way. If he thinks blocking him is the most I would do, he got another thing coming. I actually added him to the shit pile of timewasters on Mr. Number 😆

Curious: what area have gyms been closed for 2 years? In many areas in the Midwest they closed for like 2 weeks back in 2020. Pretty much all hotel gyms I’ve gone to are back up and running. That said there’s a lot more questions about am I vaccinated. I just got another dose 💉 last week…even though I and a few others I know were ill towards end of last year. I should also mention; Covid seems to be the latest fashionable excuse at times to flake on a booking. I only say because a client admitted that to me couple weeks ago. Last minute jitters. But we ultimately linked up.

Right on 👍🏾 That’s why I say: if someone doesn’t think I’m doing enough, assist with the 90%. If they can do that, then they’ll know…

I concur. To be clear, I was merely discussing people’s objectives as a whole. Not so much on your suggestions. But, having an extra leg in the industry is a good thing. But you say “sex work” and “other” work. Isn’t having a fan’s site also sex work? (Even if you’re just doing solo jerk off vids) What my whole sermon 🎤 above was referring to, was those who seem to push completely alternative work from the biz…instead of helping contribute to the business we’re already in. Like, instead of telling an escort to get another job: how about make a video with them and help increase their ratings (one of my clients did that for me, it was a simple 2 minute hand job, but it was a good demonstration of my 🌋 load 😆 But as it sounds, it seems like you are exclusively a sec worker, or only do sex work related activities, correct?

I edited that out (I hate bragging, especially in such an up and down industry lol), but I was referring to just the amount in deposits/payments on the app. But to further answer your question, as it relates to the other thread circulating: maybe $1,200 is all someone may make a month off escorting. There shouldn’t be any shame in that if they were: $1.200 month is a nice apartment in many cities (of course IF they had an extra side job to pay for everything else and only used it for that). However, if you take $1,200 and divide by either $150, 200, 250 or $300…that’s not out of the question. And like I said before: there’s times I’m in my home market and may only get 1 or 2 clients a week. If I didn’t go anywhere else, $1,200 a month would be very realistic. And that’s lucky considering the fallout. If I had a regular 9-5 job, I’d likely miss ALL the clients in some markets in a month. Which would essentially make being an escort pointless. The Midwest is a very “late morning/afternoon before 5” market. If you can’t catch em by then, don’t expect to get anything else at night.

Well, I get what you’re saying. But I’ve already found the strategy to make the change: and that’s to exit the market. You may say “bothered than most” (and according to whom?), but the listings speak for themselves. As it relates to the last question I answered, If you look at listings in a particular area and there doesn’t seem to be many, often times that can either be an opportunity or pending disaster. You won’t really know unless you’re an escort posting and actively working “on foot” in that market’ to really experience it. And my experience in some markets has shown that it’s better to be in a place where I can be appreciated as a Black provider, versus sitting around some bum ass town dealing with guys who like do stupid shit like talk about the other big black dicks they can get for $100/150….or worse yet, for free. Fuck you (not you, them lol). It may not change, and I get that. But I know where to go and what to do to change it. Like I’ve touted before: I ask all my clients for deposits mainly for hosting/advanced bookings. I started that because I got tired of booking hotels, or sitting around at home expecting some muppet to show and they don’t. Some have criticized for that. But it’s been working fine for me, the ones who don’t…that just weeds out the ones most likely to flake anyway. Don’t be lead astray. Just because I talk about something doesn’t mean I’m not doing anything about it. I’m just talking about the way it is. If it’s uncomfortable for some, sorry.

I guess it just depends on who you ask. Kansas City and St. Louis are about the only real Black populations here. However, many of the GBMs seem to aspire to move elsewhere, out of state. I was talking to one guy and things were going okay but sure nuff, he's moving to Houston 😒 Otherwise, the gay scene in both cities seems very much like a White social club. Especially in Kansas City. Many the gay White guys love it here, but I've spoken to some who can't wait to leave also. Dating here is also pointless, I find the guys here don't even actually date. It's all hookups and maybe...something will come out of it. I decided officially I'm done dating in Missouri. That extends even to meeting anyone for free sex, PERIOD. The type of man I envision for dating, does not exist here. That's also not to insinuate I don't enjoy White guy's company or only want to be around diverse backgrounds...but in Missouri THEY only want White guy's company and aren't open to diverse backgrounds. I've met countless amounts of dudes here, and they seem cool on grindr and after 2 a.m., but all of em are so fake and phony and shit...I'm done. I have clients who take care of majority of the sex stuff, but as I've said here: that is not always the case either. Most of my client hits in the area come from business travelers, many of the locals are flakes and often end up blacklisted before the 1st meet or 2. It's tragic. Trying to make this Spring, my exit... That IS a lot of moving parts lol. We're talking about 6 people, and only 3 people in the mix. That's why (not discussing you specifically)... married clients can sometimes unintentionally be a pain in the ass to do biz with. Even though for some or many, it makes up a majority of our client base, most can't really "commit" or plan things properly. I end up getting annoyed and done with it. Like one guy, we met once but ever since he's tried to squeeze me in the middle of the afternoon with no notice. And he's like, "I have to meet before xx:xx time". I'm like, what do people think? You can't just pop up out the blue to meet with me having no idea of it happening. Where is the common sense and courtesy anymore?? Especially when they want me to furnish the host location. They wouldn't want me popping up on their doorstep with 2 hours notice, why should it be any different?

Your stance is correct, but rather abstract. Can't tell whether you were quoting what I was saying, or just saying in general. I certainly wasn't implying that guys should, would or only do sex work out of desperation. I'm just saying, there's an unspoken habit of people looking DOWN on guys who SOLELY do sex work for a living. I say that because I used to know a friend (now sadly deceased) who had a habit, of whenever I went thru a rough patch in the biz, first thing that would come up is suggesting to do some alternative work (which never came with any viable suggestions). But, never did this person or some others actually take the time to: Take professional photos of me Show me how to make a website Write a review for me as a "client" Invest in me a professional wardrobe Invest me a car/place to live to better serve clients Point to/fund a visit to a city where I can do better at Actually have another job to offer me At the end of the day: people (specifically, gays both connected and not connected to the business) talk a lot of fucking shit. Everybody has a suggestion, but half the time, non are actually doing shit. It took me awhile to get to a point where I was like: if you can't be a supportive, contributing friend...and not just monetarily: I'm not interested. People always want to try and force their opinions and way of living on others. All of that stuff above I mentioned, I figured out all of those on my own and thru other sources. But if I woulda sat around listening to some guy telling me, "do this and do that while you're escorting" I'd of never reached my full potential and gotten to see the country and make all sorts of opportunities. I may not be doing exactly what someone else's standard of biz is, but maybe I don't want to settle that for myself. And most likely, they don't have it perfect either. They just present on the outside that it's all good...in reality if they could take my lifestyle, they'd do it in a heartbeat. And if not, so be it. I've seen life thru many windows to know what I do and don't want. I see the "happily" partnered gay couple with the jobs, house and the dogs, but then I have my own experiences of that not being so pleasant...and also not what it's cracked up to be. I don't want or need a man controlling my every step and move and not being able to handle a joke, or one who always think it's okay to make stupid, bitchy jabs (Like some shitty guys in relationships do) to wear at my self esteem. Likewise, I don't care for a job that I have to commit to everyday, no matter how part time it is. If I wanted one, I'd get one when I feel like it. But as you suggested, I do have like 2 additional escort evolved stuff which does take the pressure off "sex" work. There's a escort guy in Kansas City who has a job, and a side air bnb business. And he's like, you wanna work at the gym I'm at as a trainer? And even though I thanked him for the offer and opportunity, no. I don't want to do that because I'm not trying to do MORE stuff to tie me down in a city that I'm trying to move on from. Likewise, as I often say: it's bad assumption that clients hire out of desperation. That said: everyone's choices are different. If someone feels they need to do this or that in addition...by all means. But there should be nothing seen wrong with relying on the industry if one so chooses to. Instead of suggesting a person do something else, that energy can go towards helping the industry change and become better.