DWnyc

Fixed Indeed. I look forward to the more material representative opinion you can bring to the discussion instead of us. As well demonstration that your model is acceptable to a necessary (even if not sufficient perhaps) group of clients to make it sustainable for you.

Could be many things including a fake profile if he’s otherwise well known Rewuesting a deposit when you’re in the building or near isnt so surprising (not asking for it before is however) since the main purpose of the deposit for many asking for it isn’t to safeguard money / protect against no shows - no matter how passionately some try to present it that way

for you maybe - and fine - clients and the market can respond but you can’t speak for the entire industry the market doesn’t agree with you and the market usually doesn’t lie have lost count of how many providers have asked for a deposit, I’ve said no, and they’ve removed that “non negotiable” position either instantly or over time sometimes after a harsh exchange (by when I’m not going to hire them)

A real provider seeking a deposit is typically not doing so for money but for leverage if something goes wrong as they see it (or if they are crooked, even if it doesn’t). That’s why you’ll find some saying something like “even just $1” or $10 etc The scammers will typically focus just on the money and seek to maximize that.

People in law, management consulting and finance etc typically have code names for clients so if overheard confidentiality remains. They also never speak to clients if running into them publicly. Doctors do the same and will never talk about treatments or discussions in public without invitation. Hobby rules should be the same.

Some just thrive on conflict wherever and however if manifests. Psychiatrists text book examples. Borderline personality or narcissist who feel numb and invisible unless in conflict. A giveaway is when some report back consistently on all the fights they’re recently had, how many people were rude to them that day etc

I have noticed an increase in instant message only lists posts - not sure what’s driving this

I’m pretty sure I see him on the regular online dating apps so he’s around

In which case surely the takeaway lesson is, try negotiating it won’t do you any harm …

For some clients it’s an extreme form of the emotions attached to reaching out to a potential hookup online - anything that seems like a rejection (ie a delay) from a provider is sort of the worst kind for these guys - it’s like even when I’m paying I’m so undesirable etc. Not that they are - but I think there is this very fragile ego in a lot of clients on this matter. Smart providers pick up on it. Nice ones put that awareness to good use. The other ones …

I’m sure he can pull it off if the accent is thick as well

have experienced all of them more than once (upselling in general, and conversely for requesting condoms) also had a session cut short because “im Not feeling well, nothing to do with you, and I won’t charge for all the time …” right after he checked his phone … and I’m pretty sure arranged either a hookup or a longer session client. Re condoms vs bareback upsell - it’s been discussed here before but my experience has been providers generally prefer bare and condoms require more effort for them Hence upsell. If one reveals how important something is to them, an upseller may think “what’s totally easy for me is very valuable to him, so I’ll redo my pricing …”

Yup very common. And given I think I’m a generous tipper I don’t think I’m on any of these mythical databases as someone who needs a reminder on this.

Well the best providers will go to considerable lengths to ensure the client had the experience he craves …

I’ve heard a recurring narrative from providers of how they once had a bumper year, thought it was going to last forever, and blew through everything and their luck changed (eg their benefactor left town or found someone else).

Re evolving industries and technologies, the apps etc. - We’ve hashed this out before - but now many independent bookstores do you see today, and where are the Barnes and Nobles that put those guys out of business 30 years ago? Who under the age of 40 owns a Cd player? Or consults a travel agent. Or goes to develop film. And so on. And wait till AI really hits the masses. All of you providers who complain about potential clients seeking free sexting will find you may have a lot more spare time very soon given the potential for new porn / sex apps already available. What you may really notice is the loss of a funnel for potential clients unless a replacement comes on stream.

Well I’m glad you get where I’m coming from because I’m not gaslighting you (and im not gaslighting you by saying I’m not gas … sorry couldn’t resist) Ill take it further. You can’t blame potential clients for not reading or understanding whatever instructions you have in your ad. Or rather you have to expect it will happen. It’s not like an entrance exam to an elite private school where they shouldn’t be allowed a conversation with one lapse in your preferred methods. And the easier you make it for them they may veer toward a hire.

Without seeing / hearing the whole conversation I don’t see what is a lie here. ”I want to book something” isn’t a lie if I don’t end up booking. ”Yes I promise I’ll be there at 2pm on Sunday with a donation of X for Y hours of your time” and then they don’t show up or do but don’t have the donation or expect more than that time - that’s a lie. Are you saying the only outcome from contact should be setting up an agreement to meet at a certain time and place for specific terms? If so your expectations from sales outreach are unrealistic.

So … 4% conversion (don’t know if you mean just serious leads or paying clients) Here are some metrics from sales professionals: “out of 100 leads, you can expect 2 to 5 of them to convert into paying customers” or this: “According to a study by Ruler Analytics, the average conversion rate across various industries is approximately 3.2%” (From Bloomberg Sales Metrics 2023) Unless you’re saying you have less than 1 in 100 inquiries turning into actual closed sales I’m not sure you’re experiencing anything any sales professional doesn’t in their day to day roles. I depend on sales for my Income and these numbers look right to me based on my experience.

To be fair some providers on here convey very professional attitudes - I’m sure there’s a spectrum of behavior just as there is among clients.

I don’t know about “standard” but the lowest I’ve been quoted in NYC recently was $450 for two hours for two people, by someone well reviewed. He started quoting that for one hour for himself only. A series of no’s from me (with bluster on how he knew his worth) then expanded the choices he laid including dropping hints that he was dining with his hot local friend … maybe he needed to cover expenses on the assumption something is better than nothing. The lowest I’ve heard of recently for one hour is 200-250. Again by someone reviewed well on here and elsewhere so”legit” … I’ve generally found providers far more flexible on pricing than discussion here suggests, and I rarely negotiate - it’s the provider throwing out terms.

Related, I’ve been asked when actually meeting a provider whether I’m interested in p n p - even if I’ve said no or kept quiet when planning. And they’ve clarified they know some clients don’t want a written or potentially recorded verbal trail. I know this triggers some here, but it’s also reiterating the point that use by clients and providers is more widespread than profile listings / initial back and forth may suggest. And more generally that you can often get a sense of a provider’s general vibe without specifics listed.

Yup wouldn’t really fly in New York or San Francisco but it might in some rural areas or states (or countries).

Providers like this need to be “outed” - with the ability for them to defend themselves of course which is why forums like this are good. At some point if what you say is accurate this becomes akin to extortion, preying on client fears for safety, discretion etc - would help to know who he is if you’re comfortable sharing. The few times I’ve tried to leave without fully paying a donation for reasons I consider fully justified, it’s turned ugly; the most disengaged / high / drunk / entitled / narcissistic (etc etc) provider still wants his cash at the end of the day.

In more than one of these cases I’m pretty sure specific individuals were targeted using the location feature - so someone already on some kind of list was lured into a trap where they generate evidence to use against them, rather than it being a general trap for anyone unlucky to engage with the cop.