DWnyc

This seems very true from anecdotal experience. I constantly hear bi / straight guys say that they stay away from Prep and other services primarily because they don’t want prescriptions or services in their record. They don’t want the risk of their partners, employers, the government etc finding out. Or be put in a category by their insurance companies. Regardless of if that is a rational position it needs to be addressed for true disease prevention / protection of others. In some countries you can walk into a pharmacy and buy prep and other antiretrovirals without a prescription but that doesn’t address regular testing and monitoring for side effects.

Re #1: ditto Re #2: no that’s not what it means at all. It means I will pay you for services actually delivered, not those I have no indication of if you are able or willing to provide. And it also means I don’t want to leave a paper trail. Re: #3: paying you a deposit does not guarantee you are making plans for me, or plans for me in the way that I want and am paying for. I have no confirmation of that until we meet. Your concerns are legitimate and there may be a happy medium. But your positions are not absolute truths like you keep making them out to be. Or rather, your absolute truths are matched by those on the other side. I can empathize with you, I hope you can with me as well.

It got sold a few years ago and they even had a closing party. The sale fell through but it’s prime real estate operating a dwindling business model so I don’t expect it to be around much longer.

Doesn’t change anything my friend. I will never pay deposits to a provider. And if that doesn’t work for him, and that’s totally his prerogative, that’s fine because he won’t be getting my business and we can go our separate ways. As always, good luck to you 😊

Bad guy providers (and there are a ton of them out there) understand this fully and take advantage of it all the time. And there’s their standard M.O. “you’re donating for my time, not specific services”. I’m definitely net negative on all my hires, but the positives have been great so it compensates. Plus I kind of look at this all as an extension of reality (rather than the perfect fantasy it perhaps should be if donating), so I’m likely more tolerant of calculated / disingenuous nonsense.

I would turn the question around. As a provider if it’s clear from the appointment setting phase (as it often is) that someone is interested in something that isn’t a natural fit for you, would you say “sorry, not a match”?

Also be careful with geolocations some apps like sniffles have a default setting that can show anyone exactly where you are unless you hide or choose another location with the paid version Grindr is easy to work backwards from particularly if you are trying to see if someone is in a particular location (again unless you adjust the default settings)

Many clients will never pay a deposit - never. They would rather not see a provider. Which tells me there will always be providers willing to operate without taking a deposit. This business hardly has tough entry and exit criteria.

I would say here, since it is a business, if there is sufficient evidence (a pattern seen with multiple folks with similar features, or the provider says so literally or almost literally) the provider should be exposed for whatever criteria they have if they don’t have it in their ad. If they really do reject clients who are older or fatter or not of the ethnicity they want as a donor, and if that is not clear in their profile (likely as they don’t want to sound like an ass) let the world know and the world can decide how to react. But of course one has to be very very certain before launching such a campaign against someone’s livelihood.

My vehement opposition to deposits (paper trail aside) is that I’ve never had one returned where I’ve felt it should have been; providers suddenly switch from being “so professional” business folk to blubbering “almost destitute” types - “I can’t give it back … I spent it for rent / groceries / my family etc. you don’t know how tough things are for me right now ..,” (even though it wasn’t theirs to spend until the appointment was over). Not saying everyone taking a deposit would be like this, but this business seems to exhibit Jeckyl and Hyde behavior more than most.

Oh the fun you’ll be giving the folks hacking into your mailing tool from countries we are apparently at war with (cyber, trade and otherwise)

One has to be a bit of both, among other things, these days

I filled out an online application 3 weeks ago and they’re still reviewing it. I’ve opened a bunch of other accounts and CDs in the meantime. Ding.

Agree with that 100% not always a bad thing

Never my birthday - that’s just too personal info to share with a provider (before getting into the potential security implications) I would be horrified if I got one on V-day from a provider (I’m horrified by some I get from real life contacts) … but Christmas, new year, thanksgiving etc quite regularly - and I take it for what it is, good business, civility, and perhaps even sincerity. I always reciprocate in kind and unless there is a specific ask / offer mentioned (which there often is - “for the holidays I’m reducing my rates …” etc) I just restrict it to a direct response to the greeting. I wished a provider happy Christmas when seeing him right before the holidays one year, he got a bit gruff and said he had no family he was close to, it was just another day to him … it opened the door to a lengthy conversation about how he had no real friends and whether he was happy with that. This was as I was leaving and caused me to linger for a while (fully clothed, one foot out the door). There was almost a “do you wanna hang out just as friends right now” moment but probably only in my head - so I didn’t push it - and I said to him he could call me if he ever felt he needed company - just as friends - in the way i call him when I feel I need company … he laughed and said he wouldn’t be able to afford me. Yes there’s a deep message there and I’ll keep it to myself

I would say ask away the ones that get uppity about you crossing a line are very much in the minority or channeling another reason they don’t want to deal with you (eg age, race etc) Providers know full well if an inquiry comes in through one of the Rm sites what expectations can be. but clients should also understand that a provider’s polite setting of boundaries on what they offer is different from them being offended

Your standards / situation don’t necessarily apply to others The OP could likely have still met the unprofessional provider by handling it differently but why should he have to especially after paying a deposit?

That’s because the fat clients are offering their unfat providers cash, not “time”. It’s not an exchange of the same service / product.

I guess he doesn’t. Though he meets tje provider at his residence and I assume location (easy to see unless hidden) probably gives away the accuracy. but I’ll say I’ve spotted pretty much every one of my regular providers on apps along with those I recognize from ads - I stay away from even a friendly hello, to avoid any misunderstanding.

My local barber used to charge $10 before covid. Since he reopened last year he charges $25. So I have halved the frequency with which I visit him. He asked why I don’t come every month like I used to, and I told him I can’t afford to at his new rates. He got his mirror and showed me my scalp. “Don’t worry sir, you have less hair these days anyway, it’s probably the right frequency for you”

Bottom line is this is one of the most capitalist transactions out there - no price controls, regulatory body, recommended rates, collective bargaining etc. The only distortions that can allow excesses to creep in are an eye on the law and fear of exposure for some. So rates do stabilize over time based on what the local market will tolerate - a function of supply, demand etc I switch off at the moralizing / ethics arguments (“how do you expect providers to survive under these conditions…”) as much as I do when I hear clients speak of providers collectively as being required to do whatever they want, whenever, because they’re paying.

No disrespect meant - and we’re kind of all in the same boat - but is it really a “conquest” if the interaction is obtained this way?

I have a friend who - let’s just say for the point of this anecdote - is older and fatter than gay civilization tolerates. he has a regular engagement with a prominent provider in our geography. Their interaction is respectful, the provider encourages him to extend sessions, meet more regularly, tells him he enjoys it as well etc etc he also sees the provider popping up every so often on one of the online hookup apps. He initiated contact once not realizing who it was, and maybe the provider didn’t recognize him either, but he got an instant rejection being told directly he was too old and fat. my friend sort of enjoys playing - so reaches out on the hookup app anonymously to tease the provider every so often. (I’ve told him not to as he may get caught out and it would kill his regular sessions that he enjoys). And gets abusive responses totally out of whack with the comms in their sessions. anyway the point being when there’s a transaction involved most providers will relax whatever criteria they may have for hooking up with someone in their real lives. And that’s part of the point of the business model.

After this post and the ensuing discussion I no longer have a fear of initiating posts that will undermine my non-existent anonymous reputation

Try negotiating if you’re really set on him.