Simon Suraci

I DM’d you on 10/3, but haven’t heard back. If you have more SD recommendations to share here or privately, please do share.

Thank you all again. I organized a successful multi-escort outcall appointment with Jacob Larsen, MuscleGingerXL, Erik Duran, myself, and my client. All went well! Last night was a blast. Our latest addition, Jacob (linked upthread), is stunning. Absolutely gorgeous from head to toe, body, face, smile. And that ass…wow! 🤩 chef’s kiss. His cock was amazing too and I got to take it a few times before reciprocating. He clearly had a good time and obviously enjoys topping. The others and I took turns opening him up gradually from smallest to largest cock. That was hot. And man, I enjoyed kissing Jacob. Most importantly, he was professional, easy to communicate with, and followed through on all counts. I highly recommend Jacob and expect to collaborate with him in various scenarios in the future. My client was thrilled. We’re already discussing his next multi-hire. More recommendation requests to follow. My client wants to add and rotate more men in and out of our multi-man blowout sessions.

The norm for the majority of clients is one and done. I can get some massage clients off more than once, and they tend to be on the younger end of the spectrum, but normally just one time, regardless of age or overall health. They may want to go more but just can’t, even when they are hard again. I think some of this dynamic has to do with the time constraints of the session. If we had longer together, maybe it would flow more naturally into two or more rounds, but everyone has a budget. Same with escort clients. Usually one and done, and the CLIENT starts wrapping up ready to go, not me. This is why I try to pace the session so I don’t get them off too early unless they communicate that’s what they want and I oblige. For those of you like @pubic_assistance, communicate with your escort or masseur that you want to go again. I’m happy to entertain my clients for as long as they want within the time they are paying for. You may want to extend your session when you’re really having a good time and want to keep going. Ask to extend. The norm is one and done. It may not be that your guy is trying to cut your time or enjoyment short. He’s just used to one and done clients and unless you communicate, it’s really easy for him to miss your cues and fall into his rhythm of wrapping up after the first orgasm.

I didn’t opt for the ambient lighting but seems like a nice feature. I provide my own mood lighting in studio and sometimes when I’m on the road I put a rechargeable battery powered light under the table, the kind you see on restaurant tables. It’s a nice 2700k color temperature. Sorry, that’s my inner architect nerd coming out. When that light goes bad at some point, I’ll swap it out more easily than an integrated fixture.

All the more reason to invest in a high quality table. One of my masseur friends keeps buying cheap tables and they break after a couple years. This is our primary tool for our business. I feel it’s worth the investment for something that will hold up. $500-600 range versus $100-$200 range makes a huge difference. Some masseurs I know use a stationary electric hydraulic table costing thousands. I don’t think that’s necessary, but to each his own. Personally, I prefer the Master Massage brand, model: Husky Gibraltar. The name makes me laugh. That, and the fact that on some ads they market it as “Olympic size”, like massage is an Olympic sport. Reminds me of the mom on My Big Fat Greek Wedding going out to buy “Queen” size panty hose, as if the garment is for a mattress. I digress… The table has lasted me for years and travels fairly well for outcalls. I keep a second one in my Jeep for that purpose. The Husky is 32” wide and the manufacturer claims this table supports up to 3,200 lbs. I don’t believe that, and never had a desire or reason to test anything close to that ridiculously high limit, but it gives me confidence that two men collectively weighing 300-600 lbs or more will do just fine using it for massage and/or sex, and it can take some heavy point loads from time to time. At some point it becomes impractical for me to mount the table with my client purely for spatial and logistical reasons rather than weight limitation reasons. Master Massage 32 WWW.MASTERMASSAGE.COM Table Specifications Size: 32" x 72" (W x L), 84" long including headrest Height: 24" - 34" (adjustable)...

The needs of different clients regarding the “Boyfriend Experience” are multifold. Most want penetrative sex as part of the experience, maybe some only want oral or fetish play as the sexual component. Sometimes no sex at all, but usually some form of sex. Often the BFE is geared toward more kissing and hugging and physical intimacy in addition to the sex itself. But all BFE clients have needs beyond sex - for companionship, understanding, compassion, connection, and acceptance. That may come in the form of conversation over dinner or sharing in the client’s non-sexual hobby. Cuddling in bed before/after. Being seen, heard and respected. One of my clients sees me for a combination of things. He likes to be massaged for part of his time which is great. I spank him and he ultimately gets off to that part which is how we typically end, but most importantly he sees me to kiss, cuddle, and to be held. We spend most of the session with me holding him in various close contact positions, and he weeps while I do. We alternate between moments of pleasure and moments of comfort, me holding him as he emotes. He likes to be physically dominated, and simulated sex is part of that (basically elements of frottage and wrestling), maybe some teasing his hole with my fingers and mouth here and there, but no actual penetration, says he doesn’t want it. Occasionally he likes to give oral. Those are the most traditional escort-y things we do. The real value to him is what we do beyond those. I don’t pry, but I know that he is a full time caretaker to his older husband and seeing me is his means of relief and reprieve, a sense of escape, and a place for him to relax and be himself. In fact, he often says “thank you for letting me be me”. Perhaps some of his need is to mourn the loss of his husband and by extension, loss of sex and a life with relative freedom. My client is clearly very sad and going through loss, even though his husband is still alive. In a way, it’s more difficult to cope because his husband lives on with a very limited physical capacity, leaving my client all the responsibility of marriage without any of the benefits. It’s sad. Seeing me gives him some sense of peace and comfort. For someone to take care of my client for a change. This is just one version of many constituting the “boyfriend experience”. Everyone is a bit different.

My setup in Dallas was like what you described: massage table in one area with my bed in another, all in one room. It was for space saving reasons. Some clients did make their way to my bed after (or instead of) massage time, but those were for escort appointments or combo massage/escort appointments they booked ahead for that purpose and for the appropriate rates. My clients don’t necessarily demand the table for massage, but I advertise myself that way and insist on using a table in my clients’ best interest, to give them the best massage experience and also for my own best interest, to perform my work efficiently and effectively. I can do neither on a bed. I do admit the bed being in the room was a subtle hint that more is available. I came to embrace that aspect, although that wasn’t the original purpose. I also hang bondage implements on the wall as decor alongside homoerotic artwork. Another not-so-subtle hint. Then again, I’ve worked out of one bedroom houses, where I kept all the sexy stuff separate, in the bedroom. The massage space was dedicated so there was no ambiguity. I liked having plenty of defined space for each activity. More being available (presumably at higher rates) does not mean your masseur is going to pressure you into hiring him for sex or that he will force you to partake in extras you don’t want. Frankly, a lot of clients would be pleased that the option is available, whether or not they take the option. Nobody is going to force you to do anything you don’t want to do. My setup now is a private room in an office suite in a professional building. I have to be more discreet than I have been in the past renting houses and apartments. My artwork is neutral, nothing sexy. Bondage equipment is stowed away, and there is no space for a bed at only 150 sf. I use the massage table for clients that want more than massage, and do outcalls for clients that really want or need a bed, or more space for activities, or a private shower, or the client is very loud (partly my fault) and needs more privacy. For some clients I rent space hourly at a local sex dungeon to host them. I save quite a bit of money each month operating this way. After doing massage and escort work in various setups, I can’t fault any masseurs for making their spaces work for their business and living situations. There is no one size fits all. We make the most with what we have at any given time and place in our lives.

I hire day laborers through neighbor referrals and from the Home Depot crowd. It’s very common for homeowners and contractors to hire them in California. For sex though, I feel like it’s predatory to solicit these guys. They are very hard working and honest people, in my experience. If they wanted to make some quick money turning tricks, they certainly would find a way. A lot of them really do need the money badly. Some live multiple families to one housing unit and struggle to pay for living expenses. One of my guys actually just quit because he is moving to another state to reduce his expenses. Like much of the population, most of the migrant workers are not cut out to be good escorts. It takes a lot of concurrent qualities, skills, interests, and willingness to take on sex work. Like most of us in the US, a lot of them wouldn’t consider sex work based on religious or moral reasons. Machismo culture in Mexico and elsewhere in Latin America is certainly a deterring factor. To sleep with men for money is demoralizing and humiliating. Plus they might not be good at it. Besides looks and cultural influences, it takes a lot to be a good male sex worker.

I’m one of the few who do both quite well. We exist! I have ads on the massage sites and escort sites. I agree, RentMen for the Boyfriend Experience, and RentMasseur for Massages. Some targeted research is necessary to get what you want - that and being upfront about exactly what you want with the guys in your shortlist. Masseurs won’t often deliver on BF experience, and escorts won’t often deliver on a quality skilled massage. Expect to pay escort rates whether or not there is a massage involved.

Regular coconut oil works nicely for hairy bodies, although it takes more of it to do the trick vs a smoother body. No bother. Fractionated is great for when you need it to be in a liquid form no matter the room temperature, for example, for use in a pump bottle. Fractionated coconut oil is indeed thinner than most other oils. Regular coconut oil solidifies under 78 degrees F. A pleasant texture for solid coconut oil is at room temperature between 73-76 degrees F as it is most workable and melts quickly after skin contact. Long enough to apply without dripping, short enough to melt right right onto the client’s skin in a few seconds after immediate application. 68 degrees F room temperature and below and coconut oil is harder to work with. Basically you have to warm it up in your hands for a while before applying to the client, or use a warmer, which tends to make it all liquid anyway, which is also hard to work with, as you don’t want to drip all over between your container and the client.

In theory, yes. In practice, no. There are many great reasons to be licensed in your jurisdiction. At a basic level, you have education and training qualifying you to practice massage professionally. That means you learned how to manually manipulate muscle tissue, fascia, and have a basic understanding of anatomy. I find value in education and training, but at the end of the day, you develop good skills, or you don’t. Book knowledge helps, but it can’t bestow skill. Practice hours only go so far. Real clients paying real money are where the rubber meets the road. A license doesn’t guarantee the masseur you’re seeing has the skills or experience to deliver an excellent service. Plenty of unlicensed guys do an amazing job, and plenty of licensed guys are so-so, if not downright bad. And of course the opposite is true too. That’s why clients need to do their research. It takes practical experience to succeed. You can get that through official means, or unofficial ones. I am still learning new things and brushing up on old things years into my career, and it’s not through schooling. It’s through trading massages, tips from my chiropractor, YouTube, and other free online resources. All of this knowledge, whether I learn it at a massage school or on my own, is only as useful as the level to which I apply it in my craft. If having a valid license is important to a masseur for business, practical, or personal reasons, then it behooves him to protect and maintain that license by only providing therapeutic massage services conforming to his state and local requirements, like always using draping, never touching genitals, following cleaning and safety procedures, among other things. Some local jurisdictions, like mine, require massage therapists to be registered with law enforcement. That’s actually a negative, since it puts a target on your back! A license you do not have is a license you cannot lose. Any consequences you may face like charges of prostitution apply whether you have a valid state license or not. We all assume some level of risk in this business, whether licensed, or unlicensed. Doing anything beyond therapeutic massage puts you at risk of losing a license, if you have one.

Organic coconut oil. Great all purpose lube, works very well for massage. Edible, healthy, great texture, don’t need tons of it. Keeps everything lubricated nicely without having to constantly reapply like you do with water based synthetic lubes. I’ve used grapeseed many years ago, but it doesn’t have a very stable shelf life. I prefer the qualities of coconut oil and it lasts longer - great for buying in bulk.

Sorry, I have no recommendations for specific providers, but while you’re there, you might enjoy Acqua Spa For Men. I had a good experience there. Clean, well maintained, and professionally delivered spa services. The Vichy shower is a must.

YES!

Always be clear up front that you want to top so that your guy knows to clean out before the appointment. Also, shit happens sometimes no matter how fastidious you are about prepping. Have some grace and consider hiring him again for another try.

^Yes, this is one of the ways I think about it. The center of gravity is NYC proper, but of course if I stayed outside the city I would naturally attract clients from areas around me that find my location more convenient for them. I’m not sure if I would get enough clients from outside the city to keep me fully booked, though.

Thanks @nycman. Your feedback represents pretty much what I thought, especially from those living in Manhattan. Thanks everyone else for their contributions so far, and keep your opinions coming. They all matter to me.

Crazy. Some cities that’s the price for an entire day. San Diego downtown is close to that range (for a day, not an hour).

Anyone can participate. Opinions from people who have knowledge of NYC or live there will be more relevant. I was trying to set up a more focused, productive discussion since NYC is unlike so many other US cities. The mentality and cultural norms I believe are unique. The transportation infrastructure in NYC is different from most of the country. Sense of space, distance, and time are also different. For example, people in San Diego wouldn’t dream of driving 30 mins north to see me outside of central neighborhoods, whereas people in Ft Worth wouldn’t think twice about driving 30 mins to an hour in traffic to see me in Dallas. Each place has its own norms. Since other cities will have their own quirks regarding travel distances, convenience and the like, I figured it would be best to keep the discussion more specific to NYC.

I was wondering about the outcall massage via train situation. I’m so used to driving with my equipment, parking nearby to my clients, and setting up that way. I imagine I would have to take trains to do a lot of the outcalls in NYC because driving and parking would be impractical in most areas of the city. Just assumptions on my part. Lugging a table around on a train. Doesn’t sound fun, especially when they’re crowded. I at least strap the table to a skateboard so I can push it rather than put all that pressure on my back slung over the shoulders walking several blocks at a time. For stairs only buildings, I just have to suck it up.

Or any mode of transportation, really. I realize many New Yorkers do not own cars, but some do, and others prefer rideshares or taxis over trains. Reminder to all: this thread is not necessarily about whether you would travel to see me, specifically. I spin the question from my perspective as an example, to give it stakes. I realize I am not a fit for everyone in terms of type or service offerings, and that’s fine. I’m wondering more generally about how New Yorkers think about traveling providers that interest them and what dynamics are at play in their decision making. You could swap me out with anyone that interests you posing the same question. Clients hiring for massage is of particular interest to me, but some of the same issues apply to escort only services too.

Thanks. Good to know. I would definitely travel for couples massages. Doubling up on the fee for back to back service makes outcalls worthwhile. Couples oftentimes feel much more comfortable in their own homes or likewise at their accommodations when they are traveling. I enjoy giving couples massages.

So…many of you at various points have expressed interest in seeing me in NYC. I’ll frame this question to clients as it pertains to me and my business approach, but it’s a question relevant to hiring any provider visiting NYC, especially those offering massage in addition to, or instead of escort services. We might apply some of the ideas in this thread to other expensive cities like Miami, San Francisco, or others, but NYC is its own unique animal. This thread will focus specifically on New York City. Would you consider traveling outside the boroughs to see a traveling provider that interests you? My gut tells me no, that very few New Yorkers are willing to travel miles away to see a masseur or escort. Particularly for those of you in Manhattan, I assume you wouldn’t even want to leave the island to visit Brooklyn, Queens, or the Bronx. Heck, even going to one neighborhood in Manhattan vs another might be too much of an inconvenience for you. The city is teeming with good options, for massages and for sex, so I personally can’t blame any client for not considering traveling that far. Perhaps you might for a famous porn star you’ve followed for years, or someone really special to you, but probably not some guy you heard was good, but maybe only checks some of your boxes. You would see him if it were convenient and a good price, but not if he were further than a few subway stops away or charging a higher price. Am I wrong? Why I ask this question is multifold: 1) I can spend the same amount of time circuiting mid size cities and make a higher profit margin. It’s very expensive staying in NYC. To net something comparable on a per-day or per-week basis, I concluded that I would necessarily have to raise my rates on a “per city” basis i.e. only when visiting NYC or another large, expensive metro. I don’t like that. I don’t want to do that. I sure as hell know I can’t compete with the local talent at the same or higher rates as they are charging. My services have value, but not any moreso than your best guys available in the boroughs. It just doesn’t make sense to put in the same or higher level of effort for a net income less than what I can earn elsewhere. 2) Clients hate when providers change their rates by city. Am I wrong? At best, it causes confusion. At worst, it puts clients off. I can’t display different rates on my ads because it confuses clients viewing me in other cities. So the only option is to “surprise” clients with a higher quote when they inquire about the expensive city I am visiting. Clients would feel frustrated that what I advertise doesn’t match what I quote. The worst is having to answer the “Rates?” question text not knowing which city a client is inquiring about and teasing out that info before answering. So yeah…all around I really do NOT want to raise rates by city. I’d rather be consistent. I want to offer a solid value proposition wherever I am. 3) My business model is to drive. To do my work in a professional manner, I bring lots of equipment and supplies I can’t take on a plane. Escorting is different. You can get away with a carry on bag containing a few essentials. Massage requires a lot more “stuff”. I can’t imagine parking somewhere in NYC, unloading everything, and getting it to my rental unit or hotel room very efficiently or safely. Plus city parking is an extra cost on top of pricey accommodations. I don’t want to change how I deliver my services to fit the city. It lowers the client experience. 4) NYC is expensive. Any way you look at it, different types of accommodation, different locations within the city, it’s all expensive. Anywhere in NYC is more than double or triple per night what I typically pay for AirBnBs in mid size cities, plus the parking. I either have to eat that extra cost (which is less motivating for me to visit) or charge more to offset my costs (which is less motivating for clients to hire me). 5) I mostly do incalls on the road. This way, I can see more clients per day. It takes lots of extra time and some extra hard cost to do outcalls. I can do fewer outcalls per day, which eats into my gross earnings and therefore my profitability. I still have to pay for accommodations regardless of how many or few outcalls I agree to fulfill. I could charge a higher outcall fee, I suppose, but it can’t be grossly out of proportion, and whatever that is would net me lower than the same time spent on incalls. I have to sleep somewhere at night. So I figure I should get something decent and arrange it to best suit my service delivery model and take as many incalls as possible. Do New Yorkers mostly want outcall service, or incall? How likely are you to book one or the other? How important is this aspect to your hiring decisions? 6) Say hypothetically demand for my services in NYC is high. Great! What a blessing. With increased demand, you might think I can just work more per day to offset the costs. Not really. I already work to capacity on these trips, meaning I allow just enough time for sleep, short rest and meal breaks, cleaning time, getting ready in the morning, etc. Optimism aside, I actually can’t work any more than I already do. Figure a full slate of 5-6 clients a day with a sample schedule of: (2) 120 min appointments, (2) 90 min appointments, (2) 60 min appointments, and at least 30 mins between each client. It varies of course, but that sample is 11.5 hrs of time a day should clients theoretically all book exactly 30 min gaps apart (which never happens). Assuming all of those are incalls and everyone shows up on time, by the end of the day, I have worked something between 12-16 hours and I’m exhausted. I can’t do any more. Emotionally I am drained, physically I am tired, and sexually I need to recharge. So…the answer isn’t to simply “work more” to recoup the extra costs of offering services in an expensive city like NYC. ___________________ All of the above points lead me to consider offering services outside the city. So far, I haven’t seen the point, but I want to know what clients actually think. Assuming I found suitable accommodations, I wouldn’t have to raise prices or eat the costs of big city rentals and I could still make myself reasonably available to the NYC market. One forum member suggested I stay near his area north of New York City proper, closer to Connecticut. Costs would be relatively lower and I could operate practically much the same way I do in other cities. I imagine some alternate locations outside the boroughs may be comparable, such as areas of New Jersey. Long Island I assume is too expensive, but I haven’t really checked. Maybe. My big question is: should I even bother? Realistically, would New Yorkers consider seeing a traveling provider close to - but outside of - the city proper? What are your limits? Blocks away? Neighborhoods away? Subway stops away? Within your borough? In a different borough? Cities near NYC? Minutes or hours of driving / rideshare? Outcall to your place only? Economic incentives and my own assumptions lead me to avoid places like NYC. I’m wondering if I am missing something. I appreciate all of you in and near the NYC metro area who have expressed interest in me in the past (you know who you are). Rest assured, you’re still on my list to reach out when the time comes, and I would love to make a NYC trip at some point. I’m just trying to make business sense of it.

Denver is on my list. It’s not too far for me. I’m looking at: Las Vegas-Salt Lake City-Colorado Springs-Albuquerque-Tucson and then back to San Diego. The biggest stretch is SLC to Colorado Springs, pushing my limits for driving all in one day. But then again I have family in CS, so I would probably take an extra day out of my schedule to rest and hang out there anyway. I considered Denver because of geography and city size, but my analysis tells me the market is more saturated there. I think I would do better in Colorado Springs, in what appears to be a relatively underserved market per capita compared to Denver. Who knows, I may do ok in Denver, but I tend to do my best business in underserved markets. Anyone really wanting to see me in Denver, PM me.