APPLE1

https://app.rent.men/AXXLucHAIRYmacho
Met with him probably a year and a half ago. I will start with a summary:
Was it bad - no.
Would I repeat - no.
He is big and uncut. Seemed a little shorter than 5'8. Pics a little out dated. He wasn't in as great of shape, but not bad. Friendly Personable. Clean. Not a good kisser. Not rock hard.
Certainly, everyone's experience may be different, but I don't think we had a connection. I feel like he put forth a lot of effort, and tried to give me what most expect from him. We had talked about my expectations prior to meeting, and once I got him back on that path, the session improved, but not 5 star.

I'm not a fan of haggling.  I f I don't think the price is fair for that market I'll move on.  Fortunately I have a lot of choice in Toronto.
That being said, if a provider contacted me first I'm likely to tell them they are overcharging and 5hat I would only pay $x.

We clearly have a fundamental difference in how we view the world and that’s ok, and I’ll likely stop engaging on this since we’re going around in circles talking past each other.
Personally I don’t negotiate in this business, and I’ve even gone as far as to pay extra when asked by providers for all sorts of nonsense after a price has been fixed. But I don’t think those who try are doing anything unethical / immoral etc / and the provider has every right to shut down a negotiation conversation at any point in the discussion (including right at the start) so where’s the harm to anyone here? 
I’ll add at likely my last comment in this thread: I’ve lost track of how many times I’ve had an exchange with a provider on asking their rate, receiving an answer, I thank them and say sorry not for me and assume that’s the end of the conversation, and then they come back volunteering a counteroffer I never asked for. That’s totally cool, but I don’t accept that they only have the right to discuss price and clients don’t.

And I would say what you did here was worse than negotiating for £20 reduction (even if unintentional) and what the provider did was effectively a negotiation (to him it’s the same thing,  £20 less than his published price) and he wouldn’t have done that if it was not feasible, showing you a degree of flexibility.
Im not suggesting you then need to bargain him down in the future based on this, and maybe you (like me) in this situation would send him the balance later or add to a subsequent booking. Just saying nothing is fixed.
This framework of escorting is unique, sole providers have special price fixing privilege (in the market as a whole) etc doesn’t make sense to me when viewing through a market / business lens.  Yes they can set their own prices, and yes clients can walk away if they can’t or won’t pay the published price, but I don’t understand what is so offensive about proposing an alternative arrangement that the provider has no obligation to accept or even consider, that may result in some (as opposed to zero) revenue from a booking that is actually made (vs not made).

There are several standards in negotiation theory, classes, books etc
One is you should always be negotiating whether for a hot dog or a multimillion dollar contract. As you need to always be on alert to see where there may be flexibility so you need this trait internalized.
Another is, don’t assume things aren’t negotiable as almost everything is.
I’ve paid “not published” prices for things at my corner shop (deli) many times 😊 It doesn’t make me an ass, since I’m not imposing the paid price and it’s with mutual ageeement which there wouldn’t be if it caused pain for either party. Im not bargaining every time I buy a can of Coke, but if I’m buying out his entire supply of coke for a dinner party (which I’ve done) there may be a conversation (and it’s rare he’s said “sorry I can’t do that”).
The owner gets my loyalty and maybe that makes him agreeable to sensible proposals since there are 5 other identical stores within walking distance of my residence. 

In the words of Joan Rivers:  Ya don't know, if ya don't ask!

I disagree that it doesn’t exist in every environment, and again “haggling” is the wrong word - it’s negotiating.
You’ve not said anything to back up your statement other than said it’s your opinion, which you’re entitled to, but that alone doesn’t make the point.
What makes escorting stand out? 

In fact, I suggest, if prices were publicly listed for a sundry activities, negotiation would greatly decrease. The very fact that price is so shrouded in secrecy makes negotiating more likely. A client is going to want to know he’s not overpaying for the same experience someone else got. If client A was quoted $2500 for a weekend, client B doesn’t want to pay $5000. But if “Weekend” isn’t listed publicly, and clients need to ask for a weekend rate, the door opens for negotiating. I would like it if prices were clearly listed so I didn’t have to ask. It really detracts from the experience for me.

So... I typically see members in these discussions remind folks to look at the issue from both the client and provider sides. At least twice, by travelling/visiting providers, I have been offered 30 min sessions when I requested an hour. I was a first time client reaching out them. Should I be assuming there is something wrong with these providers and throw up red flags? Are we going to add disparaging comments about @Jarrod_Uncut or other providers because they have offered 30 mins sessions? (@Jarrod_Uncut - "NO, we shouldn't" would be my answer, in case it wasn't obvious). 
My favorite line in here comes from @DWnyc - "... in the absence of clearly defined guidelines, throw it all out there and see what sticks," and as many have said here, obviously, the WAY you throw it all out there, can have significant effect on the direction the interaction takes

Doctors, dentists, lawyers,.... With healthcare, that is pure semantics. While an individual patient may not have negotiated, if a patient is covered under a health plan, and seeing a participating healthcare provider, the insurance company or the government negotiated the rate ahead of time. And while I am not a big negotiater, I have had crappy dental plans with capped yearly payouts that were low, and I very easily negotiated with the dentist to pay up front the same as the insurance would have paid for covered services.
It's certainly not unheard of for lawyers to negotiate rates. I have certainly negotiated legal fees before, AND I wasn't met with shock or indignation by doing so.
I think negotiations are driven by both culture and industry standards.
Culture is pretty straight forward. Like @Unicorn pointed out, in some parts of the world it's common place, and I think it extends even beyond "where" you are. Anywhere people grow up and/or go through daily life seeing people negotiate almost everything, they come to understand it as a normal every day occurrence. 
When it comes to negotiating at a car dealership, I think most of us find it normal industry standard. Up until a few years ago, it wasn't "normal" to negotiate a realestate agent commission, but then the US market changed. As I understand, it's become somewhat common place now to negotiate relestate comissions.
The other thing that makes negotiations more approachable with car dealers, and realestate agents, is that both are small businesses for all practical purposes.
When @Jarrod_Uncut started a recent thread on whether to charge X or Y, there seemed to be a lot of responses from both clients and providers talking about price shaving, fee offers, and counter offers. Obviously providers here are small business, and based on the responses I've read on this site, there are in fact providers who actively engage in negotiations.
I am certainly not saying anyone, provider or client, should or shouldn't negotiate. Given my perception of culture and industry standards, I don't feel like offense or indignation is warranted for negotiation or attempted negotiation though.
On a completely personal note, I will negotiate with a car dealer, a dentist, and lawyer, but I shop in stores with clear prices, and I applaud providers like @Jamie21  @Jarrod_Uncut, or any other provider who makes it clear what I getting and what I am paying. I will then take it or leave it, but I am not negotiating with a provider.

Doctors, dentists, lawyers,.... With healthcare, that is pure semantics. While an individual patient may not have negotiated, if a patient is covered under a health plan, and seeing a participating healthcare provider, the insurance company or the government negotiated the rate ahead of time. And while I am not a big negotiater, I have had crappy dental plans with capped yearly payouts that were low, and I very easily negotiated with the dentist to pay up front the same as the insurance would have paid for covered services.
It's certainly not unheard of for lawyers to negotiate rates. I have certainly negotiated legal fees before, AND I wasn't met with shock or indignation by doing so.
I think negotiations are driven by both culture and industry standards.
Culture is pretty straight forward. Like @Unicorn pointed out, in some parts of the world it's common place, and I think it extends even beyond "where" you are. Anywhere people grow up and/or go through daily life seeing people negotiate almost everything, they come to understand it as a normal every day occurrence. 
When it comes to negotiating at a car dealership, I think most of us find it normal industry standard. Up until a few years ago, it wasn't "normal" to negotiate a realestate agent commission, but then the US market changed. As I understand, it's become somewhat common place now to negotiate relestate comissions.
The other thing that makes negotiations more approachable with car dealers, and realestate agents, is that both are small businesses for all practical purposes.
When @Jarrod_Uncut started a recent thread on whether to charge X or Y, there seemed to be a lot of responses from both clients and providers talking about price shaving, fee offers, and counter offers. Obviously providers here are small business, and based on the responses I've read on this site, there are in fact providers who actively engage in negotiations.
I am certainly not saying anyone, provider or client, should or shouldn't negotiate. Given my perception of culture and industry standards, I don't feel like offense or indignation is warranted for negotiation or attempted negotiation though.
On a completely personal note, I will negotiate with a car dealer, a dentist, and lawyer, but I shop in stores with clear prices, and I applaud providers like @Jamie21  @Jarrod_Uncut, or any other provider who makes it clear what I getting and what I am paying. I will then take it or leave it, but I am not negotiating with a provider.

https://ilikepinga.com/2019/02/07/haggling/

I'm assuming that many of you guys are professionals in your field who deal with money a lot. That's my assumption. And as such, you are in business with potential clients etc. You understand the nature of doing business in a market, especially one where prices aren't fixed. You haggle. It's what businessmen do. That's why it's so crazy to me that in this area some would suggest that the gay escort market is somehow immune to haggling. As some like to say in some instances here, an escort isn't a dentist or a doctor and so should be treated differently. Okay. Well, then since I don't haggle with the dentist, maybe it's okay and even expected to haggle with an escort. Why not? What puts them in the category of dentist for this business transaction? If we're to treat escorts like businessmen, then let's treat them like businessmen. 
I for myself don't much like haggling, but I'm not going to fault someone who does – particularly in this kind of unregulated market. It might be seen by some as distasteful, but okay. There are loads of things that I see as distasteful, so I just don't do them. Or I say my piece and move on. But to suggest that it violates some rule is ludicrous. There are no rules for the gay escort market. Whatever works. Less rules than in the boardroom. If you can broker the deal, great. If not, better luck next time. 
It just baffles me that businessmen, or men who live and work in such areas, would think that doing business with a professional escort is somehow exempted from that – especially when we all know there aren't any set rules of the trade precisely because its extra-legal.

Doctors, dentists, lawyers,.... With healthcare, that is pure semantics. While an individual patient may not have negotiated, if a patient is covered under a health plan, and seeing a participating healthcare provider, the insurance company or the government negotiated the rate ahead of time. And while I am not a big negotiater, I have had crappy dental plans with capped yearly payouts that were low, and I very easily negotiated with the dentist to pay up front the same as the insurance would have paid for covered services.
It's certainly not unheard of for lawyers to negotiate rates. I have certainly negotiated legal fees before, AND I wasn't met with shock or indignation by doing so.
I think negotiations are driven by both culture and industry standards.
Culture is pretty straight forward. Like @Unicorn pointed out, in some parts of the world it's common place, and I think it extends even beyond "where" you are. Anywhere people grow up and/or go through daily life seeing people negotiate almost everything, they come to understand it as a normal every day occurrence. 
When it comes to negotiating at a car dealership, I think most of us find it normal industry standard. Up until a few years ago, it wasn't "normal" to negotiate a realestate agent commission, but then the US market changed. As I understand, it's become somewhat common place now to negotiate relestate comissions.
The other thing that makes negotiations more approachable with car dealers, and realestate agents, is that both are small businesses for all practical purposes.
When @Jarrod_Uncut started a recent thread on whether to charge X or Y, there seemed to be a lot of responses from both clients and providers talking about price shaving, fee offers, and counter offers. Obviously providers here are small business, and based on the responses I've read on this site, there are in fact providers who actively engage in negotiations.
I am certainly not saying anyone, provider or client, should or shouldn't negotiate. Given my perception of culture and industry standards, I don't feel like offense or indignation is warranted for negotiation or attempted negotiation though.
On a completely personal note, I will negotiate with a car dealer, a dentist, and lawyer, but I shop in stores with clear prices, and I applaud providers like @Jamie21  @Jarrod_Uncut, or any other provider who makes it clear what I getting and what I am paying. I will then take it or leave it, but I am not negotiating with a provider.

If there is any scenario that you have experienced or are aware of where negotiations (the word “haggling” inserts unnecessary bias) result in a lower price accepted by a provider, and if there was perfect information and everyone knew about it, one would expect more negotiation across comparable offerings. It would be irrational behavior for this not to be the case in a capitalist market. Can’t get more unregulated and capitalist than the industry we’re discussing here. 
It’s not necessarily accurate to characterize negotiation time (for providers) as uncompensated. That’s part of the “marketing and biz dev” time they have to put in to generate the actual dollars that come in (along with eg responding to client queries and changing the bedsheets after a client visit during hours that are not directly paid for). I assume the rate that I agree to pay a provider includes a pro rated allocation for those types of items. 

I like your attitude here @Jaroslav . I think we can all benefit to remember we’re here for good reasons from sharing information to entertainment, to enjoying community.
Disagreements and back and forth debates are natural. We don’t have to take them all that seriously. I can occasionally take it too seriously and then remember: oh yeah, duh, this is pretty low stakes stuff.
I’m grateful we have the space to talk about everything we do on these forums. I’ve learned quite a bit so far. I like hearing other perspectives. I learn more that way.

We’ve gone so far off the topic of price versus price, I had to recheck the title to make sure I didn’t click in the wrong thread 😆 
I have however found a compromise: I’m going to start offering different prices for those who book twice within a month or 2, or who become regular - regulars (as in booking once or twice per couple months, not coming around every 3-6 years lol). I find it seems to get more back in the door. 
 
 

One is ultimately responsible for oneself. We forget that. But I’m not going to disbelieve an escort who says he’s on PreP either. I’m on it so I’m not too concerned, at least about HIV. Monitoring your health and condition should be something you’re doing even if you haven’t been fucking escorts. If you develop a strange rash, see a doctor, regardless of sexual history. That seems self-evident to me.

To reiterate what has been said many times before, so not an original thought:
Just don’t rely on anyone (provider, client, hookup, partner etc) telling you they’re on PREP or that they have a health status that influences your behavior.
People don’t often know their actual status, or they may be lying for whatever reason etc and you have to take responsibility for your own health, on the metrics important to you.
And there’s that heat of the moment thing as well … 

id hire him for an overnight. see how it goes. you can always just have him stay longer

I had one who went off on crazy conspiracy theories (alien cats founded ancient Egypt, milk is made of human blood, stuff like that) and got pissed off when I talk him I didn’t want to talk during my session. I didn’t comment on his nuttiness at all, just said that I r preferred quiet during a session.  He freaked out and threw me out. He even refused my money. 

My cynicism says this is the case 9:10 times…
 

Absolutely reasonable for public meets and buzzing a client in. HOWEVER, I do think hiring a provider is different than a hookup app. That being said, I would expect more than "pic?" I assume a seasoned, professional provider would say what they mean, and mean what they say. I would envision something like "I will have to view you on the building sec cam and buzz you in, so I need at least a face pic if you want an incall."

Absolutely reasonable for public meets and buzzing a client in. HOWEVER, I do think hiring a provider is different than a hookup app. That being said, I would expect more than "pic?" I assume a seasoned, professional provider would say what they mean, and mean what they say. I would envision something like "I will have to view you on the building sec cam and buzz you in, so I need at least a face pic if you want an incall."

Absolutely reasonable for public meets and buzzing a client in. HOWEVER, I do think hiring a provider is different than a hookup app. That being said, I would expect more than "pic?" I assume a seasoned, professional provider would say what they mean, and mean what they say. I would envision something like "I will have to view you on the building sec cam and buzz you in, so I need at least a face pic if you want an incall."