Puerto Vallarta warning

[+ FreshFluff]

LMAO...thanks for the invite, but my next trip is to Bangcock. My days of going down, down south are long gone. You didn't see Fort Lauderdale on that list of US cities did you. ;)That's because were in Trump country, and we cling to our guns and religion down here..(OK that was joke)

 

I like the spelling.

[+ stevenkesslar]

LMAO...thanks for the invite, but my next trip is to Bangcock

 

I like the spelling.

 

Why is everybody here such a god damn academic? Loosen up, folks.

 

I mean, aren't there other things you can find that you like in these places?

 

[bigvalboy]

Too old for the High schools and too old to dance. Now the stripper bars are another thing...

 

Anyway back at the ranch, there was this...I've been on that ferry.

Edited March 28, 2018 by bigvalboy

[+ stevenkesslar]

Too old for high schools and too old to dance, but the stripper clubs are another thing. But I always sit close to the exit and I am always aware of my surroundings...

 

Meanwhile back at the ranch, there was this...I've been on that ferry.

 

 

 

Okay, this can go on and on. Just to restate it, I agree with your basic point: Mexico can be dangerous, and don't go there without awareness of the risk. Then again, going to a Gay club or high school in Florida can get you killed.

 

If we want to do rant (sorry, Charlie), I'll echo two of the favorite rants Epigonos and I do down in PV:

 

1. The number of Mexicans killed in the drug wars is shameful, and part of the shame is on the United States, the primary consumer of those drugs:

 

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/the-staggering-death-toll-of-mexicos-drug-war/

 

Mexico estimated 164,000 Mexicans died of cartel-related homicides between 2007 and 2014. This is not part of my reality in PV, any more than opioid addiction in West Virginia or drug-related gang deaths in Chicago (my home town) are part of my reality in Palm Springs.

 

2. The number of Mexicans who die or are killed trying to get into the US is shameful:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Migrant_deaths_along_the_Mexico–United_States_border

 

Thankfully, the number is way lower than the cartel wars. The number peaked in years when the US economy was strong and more people tried to get in to get jobs. That's one of many reasons I wish everyone could agree on a legal and safe way to let immigrants in.

 

It's not like Mexicans have nothing to do with these problems. They are the ones who buy the guns, sell the drugs, and kill people. But we in America are complicit.

 

So while it's a bad thing that a Gay guy in PV ends up with a bullet in his leg because of a hate crime, and a bomb goes off on a boat in Playa Del Carmen, I put it in the context of the big picture. I'm personally less worried about Mexicans in PV being ungracious hosts, and more worried about my country being an ungracious neighbor.

Edited March 28, 2018 by stevenkesslar

[bigvalboy]

Okay, this can go on and on. Just to restate it, I agree with your basic point: Mexico can be dangerous, and don't go there without awareness of the risk. Then again, going to a Gay club or high school in Florida can get you killed.

 

If we want to do rant (sorry, Charlie), I'll echo two of the favorite rants Epigonos and I do down in PV:

 

1. The number of Mexicans killed in the drug wars in shameful, and part of the shame is on the United States, the primary consumer of those drugs:

 

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/the-staggering-death-toll-of-mexicos-drug-war/

 

Mexico estimated 164,000 Mexicans died of cartel-related homicides between 2007 and 2014

 

2. The number of Mexicans who die or are killed trying to get into the US is shameful:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Migrant_deaths_along_the_Mexico–United_States_border

 

Thankfully, the number is way lower than the cartel wars. The number peaked in years when the US economy was strong and more people tried to get in to get jobs. That's one of many reasons I wish everyone could agree on a legal and safe way to let immigrants in.

 

It's not like Mexicans have nothing to do with these problems. They are the ones that buy the guns, sell the drugs, and kill people. But we in America are complicit.

 

So while it's a bad thing that a Gay guy in PV ends up with a bullet in his leg because of a hate crime, and a bomb goes off on a boat in Playa Del Carmen, I put it in the context of the big picture. I'm less worried about Mexicans in PV being ungracious hosts, and more worried about my country being an ungracious neighbor.

 

I can live with that.

 

BUT...please take a moment to examine the map link below. Scroll to desired area, and please note the highlighted areas in Mexico compared to that of the US.

Now gotta run, Maddow is about to come on.

 

https://travelmaps.state.gov/TSGMap/?extent=-0.879381859,47.401628436,20.397707357,54.42135931

Edited March 28, 2018 by bigvalboy

[+ stevenkesslar]

More grist for the mill about Puerto Vallarta, with the intention of making the point of how safe it is:

 

https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserReviews-g150793-d1498724-r210181264-Casa_Naranjo-Puerto_Vallarta.html

 

That is an old review of a good restaurant in PV in which a Gay guy alleges that he was the victim of discrimination in a restaurant, mostly based on non-verbal perceptions like the owner was "glaring" at them and "didn't appear happy" to serve a group of Gay guys. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and based on the thoughtful response on the part of the family that owns the restaurant, I'd say it's much ado about nothing.

 

Epigonos and I discussed this recently while in PV because we ended up eating at Casa Naranjo, because the restaurant on the same block we planned to eat at - Chenandos - was unexpectedly closed due to a family vacation. Chenandos is also a family-run restaurant with marvelous food. If you want to talk about hate crimes, the crime I hate is that the owner's two sons, who are both waiters, are strikingly handsome and obviously Straight. Therefore, after multiple visits, I have still not been able to think of a way to convince them to let me suck their cocks. Which is practically criminal.

 

While we are on the subject, the far bigger crime, in my humble opinion, is being committed at Jorge's Shrimp Shack, another small family run establishment. The older of the owner's two sons, both of whom are young adults and work as waiters, is one of the most strikingly handsome and friendly Mexican young men I have ever met. He always remembers us and welcomes us when we visit. He has also obviously been hitting the gym lately. That crime is compounded by the fact that he was wearing the restaurant's signature black t-shirt, when in fact it would have been far more gracious for him to have at least been shirtless. Frankly, I think the hospitable thing to do would be to simply dress the kid in a skimpy thong. Epigonos agreed, and offered that he hopes the kid has a small cock, since one wishes that no mere mortal is cursed with absolute physical perfection.

 

As it happens, all these restaurants are located just far enough off the beaten path, on darker cobblestone streets mostly inhabited by locals, so that many Americans might not feel comfortable walking to them. Which reminds me of the time at the Grande Luxxe in Nuevo Vallarta, which is essentially a gated community for rich Americans, Canadians , and Mexicans, when we ran into two buff young cops from Idaho and their wives, who had visited PV's central town square the previous night, and wanted to know whether it would have been safe to walk a block or two from the square before getting back in their taxi.

 

 

Which is a question that it seemed only a White cop from Idaho would ask. Because in 15 years of experience I'd argue it's ridiculously safe to walk anywhere in or outside Centro in Puerto Vallarta. But places like the Grand Luxxe in Nuevo Vallarta are options for rich Americans who'd rather play it very safe and try to avoid feeling like they are actually in Mexico.

 

So, to sum up, the worst and most hateful that it gets based on my years of experience is you read an old review that alleges some Gay guys were glared at. The best it gets is you have an abundance of riches, with awesome restaurants with delicious food run by local families with ridiculously handsome and friendly sons serving you. The only crime is that they aren't strippers, and that I can't have them for my dessert.

 

Que lastima!

Edited March 28, 2018 by stevenkesslar

[bigvalboy]

More grist for the mill about Puerto Vallarta, with the intention of making the point of how safe it is:

 

https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserReviews-g150793-d1498724-r210181264-Casa_Naranjo-Puerto_Vallarta.html

 

That is an old review of a good restaurant in PV in which a Gay guy alleges that he was the victim of discrimination in a restaurant, mostly based on non-verbal perceptions like the owner was "glaring" at them and "didn't appear happy" to serve a group of Gay guys. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and based on the thoughtful response on the part of the family that owns the restaurant, I'd say it's much ado about nothing.

 

Epigonos and I discussed this recently while in PV because we ended up eating at Casa Naranjo, because the restaurant on the same block we planned to eat at - Chenandos - was unexpectedly closed due to a family vacation. Chenandos is also a family-run restaurant with marvelous food. If you want to talk about hate crimes, the crime I hate is that the owner's two sons, who are both waiters, are strikingly handsome and obviously Straight. Therefore, after multiple visits, I have still not been able to think of a way to convince them to let me suck their cocks. Which is practically criminal.

 

While we are on the subject, the far bigger crime, in my humble opinion, is being committed at Jorge's Shrimp Shack, another small family run establishment. The older of the owner's two sons, both of whom are young adults and work as waiters, is one of the most strikingly handsome and friendly Mexican young men I have ever met. He always remembers us and welcomes us when we visit. He has also obviously been hitting the gym lately. That crime is compounded by the fact that he was wearing the restaurant's signature black t-shirt, when in fact it would have been far more gracious for him to have at least been shirtless. Frankly, I think the hospitable thing to do would be to simply dress the kid in a skimpy thong. Epigonos agreed, and offered that he hopes the kid has a small cock, since one wishes that no mere mortal is cursed with absolute physical perfection.

 

As it happens, all these restaurants are located just far enough off the beaten path, on darker cobblestone streets mostly inhabited by locals, so that many Americans might not feel comfortable walking to them. Which reminds me of the time at the Grande Luxxe in Nuevo Vallarta, which is essentially a gated community for rich Americans, Canadians , and Mexicans, when we ran into two buff young cops from Idaho and their wives, who had visited PV's central town square the previous night, and wanted to know whether it would have been safe to walk a block or two from the square before getting back in their taxi.

 

 

Which is a question that it seemed only a White cop from Idaho would ask. Because in 15 years of experience I'd argue it's ridiculously safe to walk anywhere in or outside Centro in Puerto Vallarta. But places like the Grand Luxxe in Nuevo Vallarta are options for rich Americans who'd rather play it very safe and try to avoid feeling like they are actually in Mexico.

 

So, to sum up, the worst and most hateful that it gets based on my years of experience is you read an old review that alleges some Gay guys were glared at. The best it gets is you have an abundance of riches, with awesome restaurants with delicious food run by local families with ridiculously handsome and friendly sons serving you. The only crime is that they aren't strippers, and that I can't have them for my dessert.

 

Que lastima!

 

So in summation you're telling me that, One... You really didn't open the link I provided. Two...Your signature here is correct. Three...Mexico is a long ways to go just to get some cock, and four...I'd probably love Grand Luxxe in Neuvo Vallarta. Jeez Louise Steven...

 

It does look lovely...

 

[+ stevenkesslar]

So in summation you're telling me that, One... You really didn't open the link I provided. Two...Your signature here is correct. Three...Mexico is a long ways to go just to get some cock, and four...I'd probably love Grand Luxxe in Neuvo Vallarta. Jeez Louise Steven...

 

I did open the link. If I read it correctly, based on the coded colors - yellow, orange, and red - the other parts of the world in which the State Dept. advises Americans to exercise caution, reconsider travel, or not travel are basically most of the rest of the world. That includes all of Central America, most of South America and Africa, and seemingly most of Western Europe and Asia.

 

Bangcock appears to be safe. Bon voyage, BVB. And don't do anything I wouldn't do. http://www.xtasis.org/foro/images/smilies/paja.gif http://www.xtasis.org/foro/images/smilies/paja.gif http://www.xtasis.org/foro/images/smilies/paja.gif

 

And as far as your four points go, why do you always have to make everything so complicated? Really, what I said can be summarized neatly as follows: 1. I am a pathetic, aging, and graceless whore. 2. Shockingly, this fact does not surprise anyone.

 

As further proof of these assertions, I of course just had to go to Trip Advisor and see if I could find pictures of Jorge's older son. I have bad news to report. The pictures I could find of him are at least a few years old. So it borders on jail bait, which it isn't. Sadly, the pictures are also not entirely representative. As it turns out, as the years has passed our young Mexican stallion (on the right in the second photo) has ripened, dropped the glasses, and gained probably 10 lbs. or more in muscle.

 

 

 

Regardless, I think the photos communicate the point I was making well enough.

 

So, I suppose it's just as well that you won't be coming to Palm Springs, or going to Puerto Vallarta. But for any of you who do go to Puerto Vallarta, I feel I must warn you to exercise extreme caution, and to avoid Jorge's Shrimp Shack. And if you still insist on going, and happen to visit on one of the nights that Jorge's older son is working, please take this piece of advice as deadly serious.

 

Whatever you do, do not make the kid smile.

 

If you do, you may or may not come home in a coffin. But you will definitely be filled with lust, and die of heartache.

Edited March 28, 2018 by stevenkesslar

[bigvalboy]

 

I'll just leave you with this....At Jorge's Shrimp Shack, there's not a bottle of gin on the shelf, I don't even see a bottle of Tequila. I mean what's a bar without Cabo Wabo laying around. I rest my case....

 

http://tequilaaficionado.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/cabo_wabo_sammy_hagar_4.png

Edited March 28, 2018 by bigvalboy

[+ stevenkesslar]

I'll just leave you with this....At Jorge's Shrimp Shack, there's not a bottle of gin on the shelf. I rest my case....

 

To each his own.

 

I prefer to be drunk on love.

[mike carey]

there are currently 5 areas of Mexico that are marked "do not travel" and numerous ones that are marked as "increased caution". None such exists stateside.

Does the U.S. list any of its states as being places to avoid because they are unsafe as they do with foreign cities/countries?

No, foreign ministries only provide travel advice for travel abroad. DFAT has no 'do not travel' alerts for Australians travelling to the US, although it does urge us to reconsider our need to visit the US Virgin Islands and Puerto Rico. The advice does warn that rates of crime are typically higher than in Australian cities.

 

This is their advice for Mexico:

http://smartraveller.gov.au/Maps/Mexico.gif

 

The number of homicides in a city is not a direct measure of the overall danger levels there, especially for tourists. Crime is often concentrated in certain areas and among certain groups of people.

Edited March 28, 2018 by mike carey

[maninsoma]

I wonder what the US travel map would look like if they rated areas inside the US the same as foreign destinations.

 

I happen to live in San Francisco. A quick Google search revealed to me that San Francisco is only safer than 3% of American cities. In other words, I live in one of the most dangerous cities in the US. Maybe that colors my perception of Puerto Vallarta, but every time I've been there I have felt much more safe walking around than I do at home. And, if anything, the picture where I live just keeps getting worse, with the number of desperate, drugged out zombies camping all around my neighborhood exploding. I have had several coworkers assaulted during the late afternoon or early evening hours as they left work. And while this isn't in one of the nicest areas of San Francisco, it's definitely not among those that have been perceived as the worst. And even in perhaps the most gay of all US cities, I still encounter homophobia here on occasion. I have had anti-gay insults shouted at me from cars several times over my three decades here, and that was just with me walking down the street alone being myself, not doing anything that would call attention to myself as being gay.

 

I'm not trying to argue that all of Mexico is safe. It certainly isn't. But to ignore that many places in the US are also places that a tourist might want to avoid due to crime is disingenuous. Just because our government doesn't want to warn people about areas within our own borders doesn't mean that we are safer at all places inside our country than we are traveling abroad.

 

I've never tried to find similar data/warnings issued by other governments, but I wouldn't be surprised to find San Francisco on a "do not travel" list issued by some other nations. A German woman visiting with her husband for their anniversary was killed not far from Union Square, receiving a bullet that was intended for a gang member nearby. A British man was stabbed to death during a robbery. An Australian man was beaten to death during a street brawl. These are just the recent deaths that immediately come to my mind.

 

The kind of crime that I have been a victim of in PV that I have rarely encountered in the US is vendors attempting to rip me off (exploiting my lack of fluency in Spanish and confusion with currency when I'm drunk) -- not returning the correct change, overcharging for something by an order of 10, etc.

[mike carey]

I know, off topic.

 

This comment in the thread broke me up (my emphasis):

'There's this one neighbourhood in Toronto where if you step on their foot, they don't say sorry.'

[+ stevenkesslar]

I happen to live in San Francisco. A quick Google search revealed to me that San Francisco is only safer than 3% of American cities. In other words, I live in one of the most dangerous cities in the US. Maybe that colors my perception of Puerto Vallarta, but every time I've been there I have felt much more safe walking around than I do at home. And, if anything, the picture where I live just keeps getting worse, with the number of desperate, drugged out zombies camping all around my neighborhood exploding. I have had several coworkers assaulted during the late afternoon or early evening hours as they left work. And while this isn't in one of the nicest areas of San Francisco, it's definitely not among those that have been perceived as the worst. And even in perhaps the most gay of all US cities, I still encounter homophobia here on occasion. I have had anti-gay insults shouted at me from cars several times over my three decades here, and that was just with me walking down the street alone being myself, not doing anything that would call attention to myself as being gay.

 

Can't we just build The Wall around San Francisco?

 

It's cheaper than one having to cover the whole US/Mexico border. And that way Trump can argue he kept all those San Francisco liberals out of the real part of the United States? :eek:

[+ José Soplanucas]

At this point and considering that the Department of State is neglecting to warn us about the dangers of traveling inside the USA (probably because it is the Department of Interior's job -is that an office?), I suggest we produce a guide with the dangers waiting for the visitors to Palm Springs.

 

For instance, I heard you should not go unaccompanied to public restrooms because there is a forum member who not only suffers from effusive logorrhea, but also has attacks of a compulsive need to give head to strangers. I heard he is called Palm Srings' Blanche Dubois.

 

What other dangers are waiting for us, innocent visitors?

 

[+ glutes]

Speaking of a wheel barrel full of bull shit, wonder how that certain escorts 'blog' is doing...

[+ Pensant]

The same comment could be made about St. Petersburg, Russia, Sarajevo, Kiev, Khartoum and perhaps even Juba, South Sudan.

Curious why you mentioned Sarajevo and Kiev? From a gay perspective?

[+ stevenkesslar]

For instance, I heard you should not go unaccompanied to public restrooms because there is a forum member who not only suffers from effusive logorrhea, but also has attacks of a compulsive need to give head to strangers. I heard he is called Palm Srings' Blanche Dubois.

 

Don't worry, your dick is safe.

 

I prefer the young, Mexican variety, to be honest.

 

And my doctor told me going down on a bad hombre is an excellent cure for logorrhea. So I guess you're safe from that as well.

[maninsoma]

Can't we just build The Wall around San Francisco?

 

It's cheaper than one having to cover the whole US/Mexico border. And that way Trump can argue he kept all those San Francisco liberals out of the real part of the United States? :eek:

 

You can build it but we're not going to pay for it. If you want a wall, then you should pass your own laws that fine property owners when homeless people mix their trash, composting, and recyclables before the refuse collection company comes by, or when graffiti "artists" tag their buildings. Or maybe you can pass a tax on those evil "big soda" companies.

[marylander1940]

Does the U.S. list any of its states as being places to avoid because they are unsafe as they do with foreign cities/countries?

 

I hope so, foreigners should be warned about our mass shooting and endemic gun violence besides I would tell some visitors not to approach cops and if they do to show their hands at all times or they might be shot.

[Kenny]

I suggest we produce a guide with the dangers waiting for the visitors to Palm Springs.

 

Flash floods.

 

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2017/08/03/electrical-storm-palm-springs-911-down/

[+ stevenkesslar]

You can build it but we're not going to pay for it. If you want a wall, then you should pass your own laws that fine property owners when homeless people mix their trash, composting, and recyclables before the refuse collection company comes by, or when graffiti "artists" tag their buildings. Or maybe you can pass a tax on those evil "big soda" companies.

 

So for purposes of putting all this in perspective, let's talk about the relative safety of PV and SF, both of which I know pretty well. And in order to not make anyone sound like an insensitive jerk, for purposes of this post I'll simply refer to two people who post here as my liberal friend and my conservative friend.

 

My liberal friend, who lives in SF, tells me regularly about how bad the drug problem is, and how unsafe he feels walking on the streets. And how there are needles and broken glass everywhere, like from cars being broken into by drug addicts. My memory sucks, but at one point I recall he went off on a rant about how sick he is of the cops having to show up when people are overdosing, and how much money it costs, and how it might actually make more sense to just let them overdose and die. It was kind of funny in a dark comedy way, and kind of sad.

 

So then I go down to PV with my conservative friend, and we are sitting on the balcony of an oceanfront condo, and I ask him to read the special issue of TIME that was dedicated entirely to photos and text about the nationwide opioid epidemic. A lot of the photos were of addicts in San Francisco. I mentioned that my liberal friend was at the point of feeling like we spend so much time and money rescuing the same people who are addicts and who keep overdosing - which is what TIME talked about as well - that maybe we should just let them overdose. And my conservative friend went into a rant about how he agrees with with my liberal friend. Maybe we should just let them overdose and die.

 

So it's interesting that two people I know well, who have very different political orientations, are both fed up enough with the day to day manifestations of the nationwide opioid epidemic that they basically seem to be able to agree to something that seems inhumane - just let addicts die on the street, instead of trying to save them so they can overdose again. The numbers about what it costs to treat the addiction are horrific. Except for the fact that the numbers about what it costs to not treat the addiction are horrific, too. It's a nightmare.

 

I don't want to turn this thread into one on opioids. But I lived in SF for over a decade, and I loved it. Given what I hear and read about the way it is now, if I was given a choice between a week in my friend's condo South of Market in SF, and a week in the oceanfront condo in the Zona Romantica of Puerto Vallarta, I would take Puerto Vallarta in a heartbeat.

[TruthBTold]

At this point and considering that the Department of State is neglecting to warn us about the dangers of traveling inside the USA (probably because it is the Department of Interior's job -is that an office?), I suggest we produce a guide with the dangers waiting for the visitors to Palm Springs.

For instance, I heard you should not go unaccompanied to public restrooms because there is a forum member who not only suffers from effusive logorrhea, but also has attacks of a compulsive need to give head to strangers. I heard he is called Palm Srings' Blanche Dubois.

What other dangers are waiting for us, innocent visitors?

 

Do you know what hotel/resort he's staying at? I would gladly carve a hole in my bathroom door.

[bigvalboy]

So for purposes of putting all this in perspective,

 

Well you hardly did that. You told one anecdotal story about two friends, tied a neat bow around it, and announced the subject resolved...Dear Lord.

Edited March 29, 2018 by bigvalboy

[+ FreshFluff]

 

The view is stunning, but that looks like a common area for all hotel guests. The kitten would prefer to have the whole terrace for herself.