Puerto Vallarta warning

[+ Charlie]

A married couple of gay Palm Springs realtors were vacationing in PV. In the early morning hours, they were walking back to their rental condo from a gay dance bar, holding hands, when someone yelled at them and then shot at one of them. He is hospitalized but not seriously injured. They say the Mexican police are describing the incident as an attempted robbery, during which they struggled with the assailant, but that wasn't what happened at all, although they have repeatedly told the police what actually occurred. They have told the PS media that the Mexicans are afraid of scaring off gay American tourists, so they are denying that there is any anti-gay angle to the attack.

[TruthBTold]

It is always the money aspect (the tourist trade) that forces an attempt to stop the truth from coming out.

[+ Lance_Navarro]

That's unfortunate to hear, but I hope that doesn't dissuade people from visiting PV. We are actually in the cab, heading to the PV airport to fly back home now, after a glorious week here (we come down every year). It's unfortunate they won't acknowledge the motivation, but overall I still feel safer here than many parts of the US.

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

Mexico is taking it in the chops right now. The US media seems to be doing day-to-day reports on the cartel.

 

I just got back from San Miguel De Allende and was in Playa Del Carmen last month: I never felt uncomfortable or unsafe. Don't let these things dissuade you from visiting places you've never been. Mexico is a stunningly beautiful country.

[+ Italiano]

Mexico is taking it in the chops right now. The US media seems to be doing day-to-day reports on the cartel.

 

I just got back from San Miguel De Allende and was in Playa Del Carmen last month: I never felt uncomfortable or unsafe. Don't let these things dissuade you from visiting places you've never been. Mexico is a stunningly beautiful country.

 

Absolutely great words @Benjamin_Nicholas ! Don't forget that only 5 years ago a gay guy was yelled at, shot and killed in the West Village in NYC just because he was holding hands....These things are really unfortunate and sad, but they do happen all over the world in the most unexpected place.

Puerto Vallarta is a very nice, fun, gay friendly place I have gone to since the early 90s.

It is definitely true that the police is generally corrupted in Mexico, so that's something to keep in consideration.

[TruthBTold]

Brazil is much the same at times. It is very embracing of the gay population at most times but its police force can be corrupt and demanding of its gay population. It has its violence toward that population as it does toward other groups. So just take care and don't be flashy. Money is always very attractive.

[bigvalboy]

https://travelmaps.state.gov/TSGMap/?extent=-0.879381859,47.401628436,20.397707357,54.42135931

 

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories.html/

 

@Charlie is correct. There are some travel advisories that should be considered. Making sweeping generalizations about safe travel to Mexico is irresponsible. There are some travel restrictions that should be considered. Some areas are only "exercise increased caution" to "Do not travel"...Having two friends murdered in Mexico that the Mexican government refused to investigate seriously, I know first hand it is a frustrating situation. The world has become an inherently more dangerous place to travel. Extra caution should always be taken, whether or not you are stateside or outside the continental United States.

 

It is often difficult to hide the fact that you are a tourist, and as such we become natural targets. I am far more cautious when traveling today than I did 10 or 15 years ago.

Edited March 27, 2018 by bigvalboy

[Epigonos]

How many gays were killed in the Florida nightclub attack?

We frequently forget that things like this can and do happen any place in the world including here in the United States. I just spent ten day in Puerto Vallarta and never once felt unsafe. As in all places caution should be exercised especially when out and about late at night.

Also PLEASE keep in mind that Mexico wouldn't have a drug cartel problem if the demand for drugs in this country wasn't so outrageous. Many in the U.S. love to condemn Mexico for its gun violence problems. Most of those gun used in Mexico are purchased in the U.S. (Texas) with cartel money that is stored in U.S. banks. U.S. banks are bulging with cartel dollars from which the they are making huge profits. Now if anybody thinks that is going to change they had better think again. Those banks are huge campaign donors to U.S. members of the House and the Senate from both the Democrats and Republicans.

Enough of my rant!!!

[+ José Soplanucas]

How many gays were killed in the Florida nightclub attack?

We frequently forget that things like this can and do happen any place in the world including here in the United States. I just spent ten day in Puerto Vallarta and never once felt unsafe. As in all places caution should be exercised especially when out and about late at night.

Also PLEASE keep in mind that Mexico wouldn't have a drug cartel problem if the demand for drugs in this country wasn't so outrageous. Many in the U.S. love to condemn Mexico for its gun violence problems. Most of those gun used in Mexico are purchased in the U.S. (Texas) with cartel money that is stored in U.S. banks. U.S. banks are bulging with cartel dollars from which the they are making huge profits. Now if anybody thinks that is going to change they had better think again. Those banks are huge campaign donors to U.S. members of the House and the Senate from both the Democrats and Republicans.

Enough of my rant!!!

Not a rant. Thanks for your common sense.

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

How many gays were killed in the Florida nightclub attack?

We frequently forget that things like this can and do happen any place in the world including here in the United States. I just spent ten day in Puerto Vallarta and never once felt unsafe. As in all places caution should be exercised especially when out and about late at night.

Also PLEASE keep in mind that Mexico wouldn't have a drug cartel problem if the demand for drugs in this country wasn't so outrageous. Many in the U.S. love to condemn Mexico for its gun violence problems. Most of those gun used in Mexico are purchased in the U.S. (Texas) with cartel money that is stored in U.S. banks. U.S. banks are bulging with cartel dollars from which the they are making huge profits. Now if anybody thinks that is going to change they had better think again. Those banks are huge campaign donors to U.S. members of the House and the Senate from both the Democrats and Republicans.

Enough of my rant!!!

 

Additional realistic perspective: Crime rates are higher in many major US cities than throughout Mexico.

 

That's not to say you shouldn't exercise caution when needed, but certainly don't live in manufactured fear.

 

However, for some people, staying at home in their rocking chair is truly the best bet.

Edited March 27, 2018 by Benjamin_Nicholas

[Bearofdistinction]

A married couple of gay Palm Springs realtors were vacationing in PV. In the early morning hours, they were walking back to their rental condo from a gay dance bar, holding hands, when someone yelled at them and then shot at one of them. He is hospitalized but not seriously injured. They say the Mexican police are describing the incident as an attempted robbery, during which they struggled with the assailant, but that wasn't what happened at all, although they have repeatedly told the police what actually occurred. They have told the PS media that the Mexicans are afraid of scaring off gay American tourists, so they are denying that there is any anti-gay angle to the attack.

 

Thanks = Can you please share a link to the article(s)

[+ WilliamM]

just spent ten day in Puerto Vallarta and never once felt unsafe. As in all places caution should be exercised especially when out and about late at night.

 

The same comment could be made about St. Petersburg, Russia, Sarajevo, Kiev, Khartoum and perhaps even Juba, South Sudan.

[bigvalboy]

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories.html/

@Charlie is correct. There are some travel advisories that should be considered. The world has become an inherently more dangerous place to travel. Extra caution should always be taken, whether or not you are stateside or outside the continental United States.

 

It is often difficult to hide the fact that you are a tourist, and as such we become natural targets. I am far more cautious when traveling today than I did 10 or 15 years ago.

 

How many gays were killed in the Florida nightclub attack?

We frequently forget that things like this can and do happen any place in the world including here in the United States. I just spent ten day in Puerto Vallarta and never once felt unsafe. As in all places caution should be exercised especially when out and about late at night.

Also PLEASE keep in mind that Mexico wouldn't have a drug cartel problem if the demand for drugs in this country wasn't so outrageous. Many in the U.S. love to condemn Mexico for its gun violence problems. Most of those gun used in Mexico are purchased in the U.S. (Texas) with cartel money that is stored in U.S. banks. U.S. banks are bulging with cartel dollars from which the they are making huge profits. Now if anybody thinks that is going to change they had better think again. Those banks are huge campaign donors to U.S. members of the House and the Senate from both the Democrats and Republicans.

Enough of my rant!!!

 

Your defense of Mexico is long standing, and my caution about traveling there is equally so. We've had this discussion many times before, however there are currently 5 areas of Mexico that are marked "do not travel" and numerous ones that are marked as "increased caution". None such exists stateside. The reason that there is more violence in Mexico is not the issue. The issue is that for tourists it does exist, and those traveling there should exercise more caution than in the US. My issue also is with the Mexican authorities, as Charlie mentioned. Sweeping crime under the rug, denying the facts. As with my friend who was stabbed 17 times in some back alley and my housekeeper, who's father was gunned down in the streets of Acapulco. Both occasions, friends and family were warned not to come to Mexico. If they did, then there would be trouble. As I mentioned before, the world is inherently a more dangerous place to travel in. I am far more cautious in the US than I ever have been before, but I exercise more caution south of the border.

 

It's unlikely that you will convince me otherwise. I had a condo in Cabo at one time when I lived in LA, but that was a different time...Sold it years ago and moved on.

 

https://www.wokv.com/travel/issues-not-travel-advisory-mexico/HytfwumQNrsUeW09aGpFIM/

 

U.S. issues ‘do not travel’ advisory for 5 states in Mexico

By: Kelcie Willis, Cox Media Group National Content Desk

January 11, 2018 12:32 AM

The U.S. Department of State has issued a travel advisory urging citizens to use increased caution when traveling to five states in Mexico.

 

USA Today reported that the new warning from the government has increased the Colima, Guerrero, Michoacán, Sinaloa and Tamaulipas states to a level 4, the highest level of potential danger.

 

The warning for the states, issued Thursday, was raised due to crime.

 

 

 

The State Department already recommends that travelers use “increased caution” when in Mexico because of widespread crime, such as kidnapping, homicide, carjacking and robbery, USA Today reported.

 

The department recommends that those who decide to travel to Mexico to use toll roads, avoid night driving, be extra vigilant when visiting banks and ATMs, use caution when visiting local bars, nightclubs and casinos, and to avoid displaying signs of wealth. Travelers are also urged to enroll in Smart Traveler Enrollment Program to make locating easier in an emergency and to have an emergency contingency plan. Travelers should also review crime and safety reports for Mexico.

Edited March 27, 2018 by bigvalboy

[marylander1940]

How many gays were killed in the Florida nightclub attack?

We frequently forget that things like this can and do happen any place in the world including here in the United States. I just spent ten day in Puerto Vallarta and never once felt unsafe. As in all places caution should be exercised especially when out and about late at night.

Also PLEASE keep in mind that Mexico wouldn't have a drug cartel problem if the demand for drugs in this country wasn't so outrageous. Many in the U.S. love to condemn Mexico for its gun violence problems. Most of those gun used in Mexico are purchased in the U.S. (Texas) with cartel money that is stored in U.S. banks. U.S. banks are bulging with cartel dollars from which the they are making huge profits. Now if anybody thinks that is going to change they had better think again. Those banks are huge campaign donors to U.S. members of the House and the Senate from both the Democrats and Republicans.

Enough of my rant!!!

 

Great point!

 

Besides I had friends who were called gay slurs here in DuPont and also in Key West.

[bigvalboy]

It's a shame that it's come to this. Puerto used to be a travel haven back in the day. If I traveled, there's plenty of exotic places in my own country to visit, although with stricter travel laws, not having a passport is soon seemingly not an option for even domestic air travel.

 

It is a shame. The whole of Baja including my once loved destination of Cabo is under a travel warning.

[Flynn]

Mexico is taking it in the chops right now. The US media seems to be doing day-to-day reports on the cartel.

 

I just got back from San Miguel De Allende and was in Playa Del Carmen last month: I never felt uncomfortable or unsafe. Don't let these things dissuade you from visiting places you've never been. Mexico is a stunningly beautiful country.

 

Concur with you Benjamin.

I traveled with Jason W. / Noah Driver down to Acapulco last month, and must agree - it is stunningly beautiful and good value for money,

Now if I could only get over my Montezuma's revenge. Same for Noah too!

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

Concur with you Benjamin.

I traveled with Jason W. / Noah Driver down to Acapulco last month, and must agree - it is stunningly beautiful and good value for money,

Now if I could only get over my Montezuma's revenge. Same for Noah too!

 

Uh huh.

 

The bullshit is getting thick enough in here to need a wheelbarrow.

[rogerG]

Do not enjoy visiting unsafe places, no matter how beautiful. Say what you will about crime in America, at least here I speak the language and know people who work in law enforcement.

 

I wish we lived in a world where two men walking down a street holding hands in an expression of love is considered common and non-threatening. We don't live in that world, and I have no desire to lose my life displaying my inner activist. Why gay men do certain things in a foreign country that invite unwanted attention is beyond my comprehension. Are PDAs more valuable than a bullet in one's head? Not for me. If I want to express love for my partner, I'm happy to do so in private where I know he's safe from harm.

[bigvalboy]

I wish we lived in a world where two men walking down a street holding hands in an expression of love is considered common and non-threatening.

There are countless places in the world where gay men can walk down the street holding hands safely. As one example, it is common place in many cities right here in south Florida.

Edited March 28, 2018 by bigvalboy

[+ stevenkesslar]

Additional realistic perspective: Crime rates are higher in many major US cities than throughout Mexico.

 

I'll just add to what Benjamin, Lance, and Epigonos said, and characteristically add a list.

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/most-violent-cities-in-the-world-2018-3#42-detroit-had-3969-homicides-per-100000-residents-9

 

Mexico's has 3 of the 5 most dangerous cities on the list: Los Cabos, Acapulco, and Tijuana. Then again, the US has a number of cities on the list: St. Louis, Baltimore, New Orleans. Epigonos and I spent years going to Acapulco, and nothing ever happened. Other than sex, of course. I was in Cabo about a year ago and nothing happened.

 

Generally my impression is that the cartels target other cartel members and are smart enough to leave tourists (i.e. their customers) alone. Innocents get caught in the crossfire sometimes, but that happens to native Mexicans in the border cities in Mexico on the above list, who are in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

The freak out story from PV that happened several years ago was when some cartel members intruded on an after-hours party at a prominent restaurant, La Leche, and kidnapped members of another cartel celebrating there. Again, it is the exception that proves the rule: the criminals tend to target and kill each other, just like what happens here in the US.

 

If you've read my posts on gun control, Mexico and the US have almost exactly the same average rate of national gun deaths. In both cases they are unacceptably high - roughly about 10 per 100,000 people, which is 3 or 4 or 5 times higher than the typical places people here travel to, like Canada or European countries. But it's all about location, location, location in each country. Puerto Vallarta is probably safer than Los Angeles.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

 

I've never experienced homophobia or hate crimes in PV, which is what it sounds like this boils down to. There's always one asshole in the crowd. And in this case it was an asshole with a gun. Chalk up Reason 4,784,392 for more gun control.

 

If Mexicans in PV target American or Canadian tourists, it is generally with warmth, hospitality, and kindness. Not hate. It's my second home and I love the place and the culture.

 

As always, I'm willing to take one for the team. As a result of this hate crime, I'm floating a proposal that no Mexican male can buy a gun until he successfully sucks my cock, proving that he has a tolerance for Gays and Gay behavior. I'll let you guys know if I need help on lobbying or implementation of this exciting new initiative.

 

The bullshit is getting thick enough in here to need a wheelbarrow.

 

En serio? What exactly do you mean?

Edited March 27, 2018 by stevenkesslar

[bigvalboy]

I'll just add to what Benjamin, Lance, and Epigonos said, and characteristically add a list.

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/most-violent-cities-in-the-world-2018-3#42-detroit-had-3969-homicides-per-100000-residents-9

 

Mexico's has 3 of the 5 most dangerous cities on the list: Los Cabos, Acapulco, and Tijuana. Then again, the US has a number of cities on the list: St. Louis, Baltimore, New Orleans. Epigonos and I spent years going to Acapulco, and nothing ever happened. Other than sex, of course.

 

Generally my impression is that the cartels target other cartel members and are smart enough to leave tourists (i.e. their customers) alone. Innocents get caught in the crossfire sometimes, but that happens to native Mexicans in the border cities in Mexico on the above list, who are in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

The freak out story from PV that happened several years ago was when some cartel members intruded on an after-hours party at a prominent restaurant, La Leche, and kidnapped members of another cartel celebrating there. Again, it is the exception that proves the rule: the criminals tend to target and kill each other, just like what happens here in the US.

 

If you've read my posts on gun control, Mexico and the US have almost exactly the same average rate of national gun deaths. In both cases they are unacceptably high - roughly about 10 per 100,000 people, which is 3 or 4 or 5 times higher than the typical places people here travel to, like Canada or European countries. But it's all about location, location, location in each country. Puerto Vallarta is probably safer than Los Angeles.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

 

I've never experienced homophobia or hate crimes in PV, which is what it sounds like this boils down to. There's always one asshole in the crowd. And in this case it was an asshole with a gun. Chalk up Reason 4,784,392 for more gun control.

 

If Mexicans in PV target American or Canadians tourists, it is generally with warmth, hospitality, and kindness. Not hate. It's my second home and I love the place and the culture.

 

As always, I'm willing to take one for the team. As a result of this hate crime, I'm floating a proposal that no Mexican male can buy a gun until he successfully sucks my cock, proving that he has a tolerance for Gays and Gay behavior. I'll let you guys know if I need help on lobbying or implementation of this exciting new initiative.

 

Of course you are ignoring the fact that the whole of the Baja peninsula is under a travel warning and that Mazatlan as well as Acapulco is under a "Do not travel" warning. Not just the city, but the entire region. None such exists in the US..we can throw stats back and forth all day, but no one is saying that Mexico is more dangerous than other places in the world, but my point was that it would be foolish to say that it was as safe. You love PV, I get it, nothing wrong with that, lots of good Mexican cock down there, but there is an element of reality here and to say the Mexico is just as safe as Palm Springs, is just categorically incorrect... There's a pretty big world out there, and I choose to travel where it is more likely than not that I won't be coming home to the casa in a body bag....

 

And no, I wouldn't walk the streets of Detroit, or New Orleans, or Baltimore, or Birmingham or...unaccompanied.

 

End of my rant...

Edited March 27, 2018 by bigvalboy

[+ José Soplanucas]

En serio? What exactly do you mean?

 

[TruthBTold]

Does the U.S. list any of its states as being places to avoid because they are unsafe as they do with foreign cities/countries?

[+ stevenkesslar]

there is an element of reality here and to say the Mexico is just as safe as Palm Springs, is just categorically incorrect...

 

I agree with your basic point, which is that anybody going to Mexico should be aware of the risk. And avoid it if they don't feel comfortable with the risk. As I said, 3 of the top 5 most dangerous cities in the world are in Mexico.

 

Just like anybody who wants to go to a Gay bar or Gay bath house in New Orleans or Brazil, suck cock and fuck all night, and walk home alone to my hotel in the middle of the night should be aware of the risk. Not that I would ever do that, of course. http://www.xtasis.org/foro/images/smilies/paja.gif http://www.xtasis.org/foro/images/smilies/paja.gif http://www.xtasis.org/foro/images/smilies/paja.gif

 

But to be clear, I did not say Mexico is just as safe as Palm Springs. I said Mexico is as safe as the US, on average.

 

I did say that Puerto Vallarta is probably safer than Los Angeles, and I stand by that.

 

I'm not going to vouch for Los Cabos or other areas known as cartel hot spots. Epigonos and I spent a wonderful week in Morelia about a decade ago and we both refer to it affectionately as one of of our favorites cities in Mexico. Then a few years after we were there La Familia set off a bomb in the beautiful central square and several innocent Mexicans died. It was a tragedy.

 

 

Speaking of Michoacan, if you can pry yourself away from those stripper cocks you love to suck on down there in Florida, BVB, you are welcome to join me in implementing my "guns for cocks" (sorry, but I'm calling it pistolas para pingas) initiative. http://www.xtasis.org/foro/images/smilies/helado.gif http://www.xtasis.org/foro/images/smilies/helado.gif http://www.xtasis.org/foro/images/smilies/helado.gif

 

I had an interesting cock sucking adventure with Epigonos in a stripper bar and sex hotel with an armed guard in Acapulco years ago. But, frankly, he's getting a bit old for that kind of thing.

 

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1515858.1384379146!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_750/fbcartel-2-web.jpg

 

And, please, stay out of the high schools and Gay clubs down there in Florida, okay?

 

One of the items on my bucket list before I die is to suck your cock, BVB. And I heard some of those places down there in Florida are kind of dangerous.

Edited March 27, 2018 by stevenkesslar

[bigvalboy]

I agree with your basic point, which is that anybody going to Mexico should be aware of the risk. And avoid it if they don't feel comfortable with the risk. As I said, 3 of the top 5 most dangerous cities in the world are in Mexico.

 

Just like anybody who wants to go to a Gay bar or Gay bath house in New Orleans or Brazil, suck cock and fuck all night, and walk home alone to my hotel in the middle of the night should be aware of the risk. Not that I would ever do that, of course. http://www.xtasis.org/foro/images/smilies/paja.gif http://www.xtasis.org/foro/images/smilies/paja.gif http://www.xtasis.org/foro/images/smilies/paja.gif

 

But to be clear, I did not say Mexico is just as safe as Palm Springs. I said Mexico is as safe as the US, on average.

 

I did say that Puerto Vallarta is probably safer than Los Angeles, and I stand by that.

 

I'm not going to vouch for Los Cabos or other areas known as cartel hot spots. Epigonos and I spent a wonderful week in Morelia about a decade ago and we both refer to it affectionately as one of of our favorites cities in Mexico. Then a few years after we were there La Familia set off a bomb in the beautiful central square and several innocent Mexicans died. It was a tragedy.

 

Speaking of Michoacan, if you can pry yourself away from those stripper cocks you love to suck on down there in Florida, BVB, you are welcome to join me in implementing my "guns for cocks" (sorry, but I'm calling it pistolas para pingas) initiative. http://www.xtasis.org/foro/images/smilies/helado.gif http://www.xtasis.org/foro/images/smilies/helado.gif http://www.xtasis.org/foro/images/smilies/helado.gif

 

I had an interesting cock sucking adventure with Epigonos in a stripper bar and sex hotel with an armed guard in Acapulco years ago. But, frankly, he's getting a bid old for that kind of thing.

 

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1515858.1384379146!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_750/fbcartel-2-web.jpg

 

LMAO...thanks for the invite, but my next trip is to Bangcock. My days of going down, down south are long gone. You didn't see Fort Lauderdale on that list of US cities did you. ;)That's because were in Trump country, and we cling to our guns and religion down here..(OK that was joke)