Contempt for clients -- deep, widespread?

[adventurous old guy]

Do a lot of escorts think of their clients as Losers?

 

There's been a hot energy thread over the past couple weeks regarding a self-described "entertainer" well known for working naked on video who drew a sharp line between his performances and escorting. In defending his reputation, his comments and tone were pretty aggressive, or so it seemed to me. He was probably angry, perhaps rightfully so. Thankfully, that thread calmed down and hopefully will remain at rest.

 

However the entertainer's comments reflected a contempt for men who hire escorts as old or ugly creeps who can't find love or companionship in their lives,. I find myself continuing to think about those comments, wondering how widespread the feeling is among service providers. Every now and again, a comment surfaces here or in reviews about escorts making fun of clients or other disrespectful speech acts. I tend to dismiss those because 1) I don't feel like a loser, and 2) the transactions I've had with escorts seem fair and mutually benefical to me. The last person I met is working to pay for school. I can think of others who have career paths focused on fitness they are supporting. And I've met people who tell me they do what they do for the thrill of it, or the opportunity to travel, or to work with a kind of freedom from the constraints of more traditional work. I can relate to and feel good about supporting all these interests/goals.

 

Now I find myself wondering if in contrast to all these rationales I have for feeling good about this activity, on the other side there's a below the surface reservoir of disrespect more akin to the entertainer' s POV. I actually dreamed about this last night, so its clearly under my skin. Love this forum, so just sharing these thoughts.

[Guest RexB]

I've frequently noticed an 'Us vs. Them' attitude from posters on here, more from clients, but of course the overwhelming majority of posters are clients, so it's impossible to gauge if it's a mutually held attitude on both sides. However, from talking about it to a few escorts I have learned that they have as many concerns about clients who might be flakes, fakes and frauds as we clients do. It's pretty safe to say that any time one singles out one individual, group or category of people and views them as somehow against another we're dealing with a delusion. Unless we see each other's interests as the same we're asking for animosity and conflict. I'd also venture to say that frauds and fakes on both sides justify their dishonest activity by a feeling of being above or better than the ones that they treat shabbily, even if it's subtle and deeply buried in the unconscious. It's the old dehumanization tactic that I, for one, intend to be especially sensitive to and extra-vigilant of in this era of border walls and travel restrictions.

[LD19847]

Like any profession, it no doubt brings its frustrations and everyone needs to let off steam once in a while. But I don't think anyone could last in this industry if they genuinely held their clients in contempt.

[MiamiLooker]

Like any profession, it no doubt brings its frustrations and everyone needs to let off steam once in a while. But I don't think anyone could last in this industry if they genuinely held their clients in contempt.

Scott Sloan lasted over twenty years. He may still be at it...

[LivingnLA]

I'm not an escort so my opinion may not directly apply, but I believe some people absolutely do look down on escorts and their clients. It's an old prejudice in many Christian Western societies that ties into all kinds of moralizing.

 

Personally, I think many of these people dislike escorts and/or clients because they realize that fundamentally, everyone who works for pay is a form of prostitute. We all sell ourselves for money--unless we were born into great wealth--and some people hate the blatant reminder. Hell, it's easy to argue that everyone who works not only sells our time, but our bodies and minds too, to a degree.

 

As many of you know, I had a terrible first hiring experience. I was lucky it wasn't worse. Do I look down on escorts? No. They're human beings and make mistakes just like all of us. Yes, some are bad people, again just like some clients. I do admit to being more cautious and on guard than I was prior to my bad experience. The handful of men I've hired since can all attest to me being a very cautious client.

 

Ultimately, I suspect those who express anger or contempt for clients, actually resent their ability to "buy" an incredibly hot time with a very hot person. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of the interaction. Yes, money changes hands, but if a connection isn't there between two human beings, it won't be very hot or incredible. It'll feel like a mechanical transaction. I think that's why the best escorts--the professionals--are able to make this career work: they have a rare ability to authentically connect with a wide range of people. I wouldn't be surprised if some people resent that ability more than their incredible bodies. As a marginally off-topic example, I really like @TopTierTop because he's clear about the limits within which he can provide the type of experience he wants to give his clients and he stays within those limits. Yes, he angers some people and probably loses some business, but I find it to be the mark of a true professional to be aware of his own limitations and try to communicate those in compassionate ways in this very intimate and personal profession.

[big-n-tall]

Just as in anything... you're going to have jackasses who demean their clientele/workers secretly or out in the open. However, I think the vast majority who hire and who are hired don't have contempt for most people they see. I'm sure each of us has to deal with someone they can't stand. However, for the most part we enjoy on some level the company we keep.

 

I can tell you I'm pretty certain the guys I've seen for years hold most of their clients (especially the reoccurring ones) in high regard.

 

I've said this before but stressing about something beyond your control does you no good. If you find someone you click with... great! Enjoy that connection. Let the jackasses fester and boil over something I give a rat's about.

[robberbaron4u]

Familiarity breeds contempt; in my thought, an old adage to be heeded

[+ Funguy]

perhaps I've been more fortunate than most, I'm in a location well-served by escorts, and I've never experienced what this thread is about. Every single escort with whom I have had the pleasure is truly that - a pleasure. Sure, I've had a couple who have been not so great, but i attribute that simply to chemistry as others have written/said great things about them. Never once have I had even a feeling that someone is doing me a favor, or of superiority, or anything other that we are here to have a great time and damn, we have! We explore a bit, even if we've seen each other recently, we go for what we want, we respect each others' boundaries, we laugh and smile, kiss passionately, we break bread.

 

I can tell you I'm pretty certain the guys I've seen for years hold most of their clients (especially the reoccurring ones) in high regard.

I've said this before but stressing about something beyond your control does you no good. If you find someone you click with... great! Enjoy that connection. Let the jackasses fester and boil over something I give a rat's about.

[caliguy]

 

the entertainer's comments reflected a contempt for men who hire escorts as old or ugly creeps who can't find love or companionship in their lives,. I find myself continuing to think about those comments, wondering how widespread the feeling is among service providers. Every now and again, a comment surfaces here or in reviews about escorts making fun of clients or other disrespectful speech acts. .

I saw a contempt both for service providers and clients equally. I was shocked by how easily people kissed his ass. Ok a very nice ass so maybe not so shocked. It made me think even here there's a difference between what people say and what they actually think though.

[corndog]

So, as I was browsing Grindr, I recognized the photo of a local escort who seemed to be looking for a Grindr hookup. I didn't acknowledge that I recognized him as an escort, but I started a chat with him to enquire about hooking up. I was fairly direct, as I don't think Grindr is the place for ladylike pretenses.

 

He could have ignored me. He could have said "no, thank you." He could have asked if I was "generous" and introduced himself as an escort.

 

He did none of these things. He responded rudely and seemed offended that someone like me had the gall to flirt with someone like him. How dare I attempt to make sexual advances on a wholesome app like Grindr? It seems clear that this was one of those escorts that has contempt for his clients.

[TruHart1]

With a few disappointing exceptions, I have found almost all of the best escorts I hire (and return to hire again and again) genuinely click with me and return the respect I show them. Some have even become my friends, within certain professional parameters. The "entertainer" referenced by the OP was defensive and somewhat abrasive in his defense of the fact that a forum member had posted that he did escort, whereas the fact is that he does not escort.

 

Just because you are a fitness model who has an internet presence and is an exhibitionist and entertainer, proud of your body and your workout routine and willing to advise other men how to best develop the muscles they wish to build up, that does not give someone the right to call that fitness model an escort. The referenced fitness model's dislike of men who hire and escorts who service them may have been harsh, but it made his point that he has no desire to have anything to do with the actual escorting business in any way.

 

The forum member who accused the fitness model/entertainer of being an escort was just lying, and his untruth, along with the model's swift and angry rebuttal of that lie certainly has no relation whatsoever to any indication that men who do choose to escort "think of their clients as Losers" or have "a contempt for men who hire escorts as old or ugly creeps who can't find love or companionship in their lives!" As I and many of the above posts stated, there will always be unfortunate exceptions and fakes, but there are so many great escorts out there furnishing wonderful experiences if you are careful and vet them before initial hiring.

 

TruHart1

[marylander1940]

Do a lot of escorts think of their clients as Losers?

 

There's been a hot energy thread over the past couple weeks regarding a self-described "entertainer" well known for working naked on video who drew a sharp line between his performances and escorting. In defending his reputation, his comments and tone were pretty aggressive, or so it seemed to me. He was probably angry, perhaps rightfully so. Thankfully, that thread calmed down and hopefully will remain at rest.

 

However the entertainer's comments reflected a contempt for men who hire escorts as old or ugly creeps who can't find love or companionship in their lives,. I find myself continuing to think about those comments, wondering how widespread the feeling is among service providers. Every now and again, a comment surfaces here or in reviews about escorts making fun of clients or other disrespectful speech acts. I tend to dismiss those because 1) I don't feel like a loser, and 2) the transactions I've had with escorts seem fair and mutually benefical to me. The last person I met is working to pay for school. I can think of others who have career paths focused on fitness they are supporting. And I've met people who tell me they do what they do for the thrill of it, or the opportunity to travel, or to work with a kind of freedom from the constraints of more traditional work. I can relate to and feel good about supporting all these interests/goals.

 

Now I find myself wondering if underneath all these rationales I have for feeling good about this activity, on the other side there's a below the surface reservoir of disrespect more akin to the entertainer' s POV. I actually dreamed about this last night, so its clearly under my skin. Love this forum, so just sharing these thoughts.

 

Some folks are just ungrateful or they simply hate themselves because of what they do for a living. There's been plenty of talk on here about straight guys who work as gay escorts and hate the community that hires them.

 

@adventurous old guy I'm not a loser either, I'm just old and I happen to like young men

 

Interesting thread, could you please tell me by PM the name of the alleged individual?

 

A little bird just told me.

[beachboy]

It would be interesting to hear more escorts' opinion on this & how they view their clients, but they're hardly gonna state any contempt for clients-not a good business model! As has been said by others, with a contemptuous attitude is unlikely to lead to a successful career except with those clients who get off on that. Of course even the best escorts must come across clients who don't engender the best of feelings but not because of their own attitude but because of the client's. Many people have conscious or unconscious feelings of guilt over sex, their orientation, hiring itself & these can be projected onto the escort as if to blame him for their own insecurities. Of course there are those who need to feel superior over anyone so lacking any kind of respect at all. This 'hobby' is supposed to be fun & fulfilling on many levels & although I don't expect an escort to choose to get intimate with me if I wasn't hiring him, I'd at least like him to think 'he's ok' ' be happy with a repeat booking. I feel for all contempt to be hidden the guy would have to be a good actor & in the intimate situation we're getting into its not so easy to disguise such feelings! So with respect on both sides we can have a great time booking the guys we connect with & passing on any with whom we don't feel comfortable, however hot he is.

[caliguy]

 

The forum member

who accused the fitness model/entertainer of being an escort was just lying, and his untruth, along with the model's swift and angry rebuttal of that lie certainly has no relation whatsoever to any indication that men who do choose to escort "think of their clients as Losers" or have "a contempt for men who hire escorts as old or ugly creeps who can't find love or companionship in their lives!"

 

TruHart1

Actually many people did and I can understand why. No need to single anyone out.

[BaronArtz]

In 25+ years of hiring, it is rare that I have been treated with contempt by an escort. But then, I treat them respectfully and professionally. I admire the work they put into their presence and don't treat them as a piece of meat to be used only to get off. I show up on time, I am always clean and I am reasonably presentable. Some of the escorts became friends.

 

On the other hand, one time, I had a chance to participate in a self-help group for male escorts, sponsored by Callan-Lorde community center in NY. It was a real eye-opener for me. There are definitely those escorts who do this because of utter desperation. They see this as the only way to make money and to survive in a place like NY. As a client, we are not always fully aware of that. I can imagine that out of this desperation, feelings of contempt, low self-esteem can grow ...

 

Not everybody is a superstar escort. There are definitely those for whom this is purely a tool to survive.

[Man Crush Morris]

It's a situation where a man pays another man for the privilege of fellating him,a privilege that otherwise wouldn't be available but for financial incentive.

 

Contempt might be a strong word, but I can definitely understand a lack of personal respect for the client. It's practically baked into the cake.

 

Female escorts rent their sexual goodies to men, for example, and usually that's something given away freely, or at the very least not reduced to an hourly rate. Ideally there's going to be a professional respect. As a practical matter, I don't think there's much personal respect for a man paying for something directly like that.

 

Just the way I see it. If you're looking for baseline personal respect be a good and loyal friend to those that deserve it. Don't look for it in a man or woman you pay for some sexual release. In general, it's just not going to be there. And if I'm honest, I understand that.

[+ deej]

Many years ago I was standing in the middle of a gaggle of a dozen or so porn star/escorts at a bar event in Chicago. We heard a beeping sound and a dozen guys FRANTICALLY searched for their pagers. (Yeah, it was that long ago.)

 

Then we realized the beeping was coming from an ATM on the back wall.

 

The guy that ended up in my bed that night was the one who looked up and said "Well, same thing, really."

 

There is never any place for contempt. Honesty, on the other hand, is always appreciated.

[+ Keith30309]

I don't believe you can generalize and make a definitive statement about this.

 

i think that, like any personal or professional relationship, there are a broad range of attitudes, approaches and paradigms to wrap around the arrangement.

 

There's highly mercantile escorts and their clients that prefer a purely physical, minimally-emotional approach. Like the prototypical 'angry guy in the office', for any number of reasons, some resent or even detest their clients. Some try to hide it but are lousy actors and others don't even realize the image they are projecting.

 

And there's companions who really love their work, take it seriously, who are professional in their behavior, and have real empathy with their clients.

 

I thi that, like anything else, there's some art and some science to matching yourself to a compatible escort / client.

 

Before you hire/agree to be hired by someone think about "How am I likely to feel after spending time with him". Making good choices is pretty rewarding in my book.

[TruHart1]

I don't believe you can generalize and make a definitive statement about this.

 

i think that, like any personal or professional relationship, there are a broad range of attitudes, approaches and paradigms to wrap around the arrangement.

 

There's highly mercantile escorts and their clients that prefer a purely physical, minimally-emotional approach. Like the prototypical 'angry guy in the office', for any number of reasons, some resent or even detest their clients. Some try to hide it but are lousy actors and others don't even realize the image they are projecting.

 

And there's companions who really love their work, take it seriously, who are professional in their behavior, and have real empathy with their clients.

 

I thi that, like anything else, there's some art and some science to matching yourself to a compatible escort / client.

 

Before you hire/agree to be hired by someone think about "How am I likely to feel after spending time with him". Making good choices is pretty rewarding in my book.

Very well said, @Keith30309!

 

TruHart1

[nate_sf]

Some of the contempt referenced in that other thread I think can also be put in the context of "entertainer" vs. escort. When I was doing porn I'd often run into performers who made a big distinction between performing in porn and escorting. For these guys, being paid to have sex on-camera for entertainment was OK, but being paid to have sex off-camera for intimacy was not. It didn't make a whole lot of sense to me, but I met enough to realize a number of guys feel this way. To them, escorting is prostitution, which is illegal in most circumstances, whereas porn is performance and entertainment, which is allowed and legal under the right circumstances. My guess is the contempt expressed by the entertainer referenced in the OP fits into this same narrative I'd encountered by some guys in the adult industry myself.

 

On the other hand there were plenty of guys I met who performed in porn and also escorted, and were OK with it. However, on the set they were generally very quiet about the escorting side of things, unless they knew they were among friends.

 

As for my own experience with escorting and contempt of clients (or lack of), the only time I'd felt anything close to contempt would be if I was treated badly, and fortunately that was very rare. Among my escort buddies, I'd say the same - I've never heard any of them talk about clients with contempt, with the exception of when something may have gone really really wrong with an individual client. And again, those instances would be very rare. But then I'd say we'd be of that group that @Keith30309 describes who really love the work.

[TopTierTop]

I really like @TopTierTop because he's clear about the limits within which he can provide the type of experience he wants to give his clients and he stays within those limits. Yes, he angers some people and probably loses some business, but I find it to be the mark of a true professional to be aware of his own limitations and try to communicate those in compassionate ways in this very intimate and personal profession.

Thank you. I appreciate the kind words.

[Kippy]

On a serious note, I would like Raven to weigh in on this topic. Everyone's point is certainly valid but I'm wondering if there is a more nuanced view with the working aspect that might be approached?

 

Peace,

 

Kipp

[TopTierTop]

I don't believe you can generalize and make a definitive statement about this.

 

i think that, like any personal or professional relationship, there are a broad range of attitudes, approaches and paradigms to wrap around the arrangement.

 

There's highly mercantile escorts and their clients that prefer a purely physical, minimally-emotional approach. Like the prototypical 'angry guy in the office', for any number of reasons, some resent or even detest their clients. Some try to hide it but are lousy actors and others don't even realize the image they are projecting.

 

And there's companions who really love their work, take it seriously, who are professional in their behavior, and have real empathy with their clients.

 

I thi that, like anything else, there's some art and some science to matching yourself to a compatible escort / client.

 

Before you hire/agree to be hired by someone think about "How am I likely to feel after spending time with him". Making good choices is pretty rewarding in my book.

Well said, indeed!

[rvwnsd]

Do a lot of escorts think of their clients as Losers?...

Hmm...can't say that any escort I have hired came across that way. I've talked to a few (fewer than ten) who gave off that kind of vibe, but I didn't hire them. If an escort does feel that way, he probably has serious self-hatred issues as well and should get into a different line of work.

[+ WilliamM]

If an escort does feel that way, he probably has serious self-hatred issues as well and should get into a different line of work.

 

Years ago I became good friends with a guy I once hired myself. We talked about this subject. Yes, he disliked a few of his clients and was honest about why. I did not like his attitude, but understood it.