Grad School

[ChrisWydeman]

I getting all my ducks in a row so I can start grad school next fall but I have had something weighing on me. As I have worked through my undergrad I have encountered many teachers that are on auto pilot.

 

My question is when you get to grad school are your teachers more engaged? Are they equally as checked out as undergrad teachers? What was your experience in grad school like compared to undergrad?

[jackjackjack]

I getting all my ducks in a row so I can start grad school next fall but I have had something weighing on me. As I have worked through my undergrad I have encountered many teachers that are on auto pilot.

 

My question is when you get to grad school are your teachers more engaged? Are they equally as checked out as undergrad teachers? What was your experience in grad school like compared to undergrad?

 

Sorry to be so general with this, but it really depends on which school and your major.

[RyanDean]

It really can depend on the degree sought & the program itself. But, as a (very) general rule, building lots of collaborative/sustaining relationships within your cohort and then one or two key faculty relationships is a good game plan. The biggest difference, though, is that grad school is not "more college" but is more like being at the entry-level of a profession. So, in addition to being teachers and perhaps mentors, profs can also feel/behave like managers or supervisors. So it's hard to predict but, if you go in with a measure of self-awareness and with a willingness to be your own advocate, you'll likely find the balance by the beginning of your second semester/term. (The first semester/term can feel like one long freakout, so just ride the wave until you get your bearings.) If you're interested to gab more about this off-list, feel free to PM me.

[+ FreshFluff]

Sorry to be so general with this, but it really depends on which school and your major.

 

It also depends on the type of graduate program.

[Tigger]

From a teaching standpoint, I had some extremely good teachers in grad school. I don't want to discourage you however as maybe only 2/5th of them were great teachers. The problem is researchers may not particularly make good teachers. But I already knew this from undergrad. My undergrad university (at the time) may have been a bit different from many. Most of my classes were taught by professors. The only regular class I had as a freshmen that used TAs to teach the class was 1st year German. Other than the foreign language department, the TAs mainly taught the laboratory portion of a class. TAs may have taught freshman English. But I passed out of those classes, and I had a professor for sophomore English.

 

My grad school professors were more enthusiastic when discussing their subject though. So all was not lost. And one on one if working with them for research, many were quite pleasant.

 

Good Luck, Chris!!

[+ ursalex]

I am a professor at a graduate level professional school. Some of my colleagues (including me, LOL) are excellent teachers. Some are good researchers and writers, but mediocre classroom instructors. And a few, sadly, are poor teachers and non-scholars but are protected by tenure.

 

 

Figure out what kind of program you want and research schools very carefully. Most have teaching evaluations available online, but understand that the best teachers sometimes get critical evaluations because students don’t like having to put in the required effort. Talk to alumni – and not just the ones that the admissions office points you to. Ignore magazine rankings; their criteria are faulty. Make sure you visit the facility, and sit in on classes with potential instructors and talk to students from the class afterwards.

 

 

Also look at the consumer information: what percent of students complete the program, student debt load, and placement percentages. These are important.

 

 

Good luck with your plans.

[+ MasssageGuy]

I getting all my ducks in a row so I can start grad school next fall but I have had something weighing on me. As I have worked through my undergrad I have encountered many teachers that are on auto pilot.

 

My question is when you get to grad school are your teachers more engaged? Are they equally as checked out as undergrad teachers? What was your experience in grad school like compared to undergrad?

I really enjoyed graduate school much more than undergrad.

 

Classes were smaller, teachers and students were much more engaged.

 

My second Masters was even better than the first as I went at night with others who were working full time jobs. The professors were generally also working full time in the business world.

 

It was worth every minute.

[ChrisWydeman]

Wow I didn't expect this kind of response!

 

I am finishing my bsw (bachler of social work) and I am looking to get a msw (master of social work). I would like to get licensed and practice mental health, in particular work in chemical dependency.

 

I have looked at many schools around the country and there are a few here in Chicago that have great reputations however they are private and the cost is staggering. It seems more often than not the public universities focus on research where as there is a little bit more empahsis with clinical work at a private universities.

[Rudynate]

I liked graduate school all right. The hardest thing about it was driving 50 miles each way several times per week. Graduate school is way more engaging than college. We did lots of lots writing, team projects, site visits, case studies, that sort of thing. There was lots of reading from professional journals. I remember that I thought all of the people in my program were really bright and I felt privileged to be going to school with them.

 

Law school had its moments, but I think I enjoyed graduate school more than law school.

[+ WmClarke]

There should be a lot less 'autopilot' in the grad school teachers. At least that was my experience.

[nynakedtop]

i can only speak from my personal experience on "both sides of the aisle". it depends very much on the nature of the institution, the type of program, and the students in the program. my experiences have been generally excellent to amazing, but i know of some schools that look upon themselves as "elite institutions" who treat students in stand alone MA programs poorly. i am in a program that is intentionally very theoretical/"academic" and as it is exactly what our students are looking for, their experience is quite excellent. look into the institutional culture of the Program you are interested in as much as possible and decide on that basis. A real grad school program is no day at the beach, so treat it with the reverence and respect it requires! (And feel free to ask me for more specifics if you like!)

[+ WilliamM]

Figure out what kind of program you want and research schools very carefully. Most have teaching evaluations available online, but understand that the best teachers sometimes get critical evaluations because students don’t like having to put in the required effort

 

In my experience, teaching evaluations are passwork protected. Also, the evaluations are amazingly accurate, except for occasionally popularity contest aspects

[+ MasssageGuy]

In my experience, teaching evaluations are passwork protected. Also, the evaluations are amazingly accurate, except for occasionally popularly contest aspects

Teacher evaluations were the best help to me when I was going for MBA. If a course had multiple professors (i.e. same course but different days, etc.), I'd check to see what each professor's ratings were.

 

Back in my day, the evaluation summaries were kept in a three ring binder somewhere in the administrative offices. Yes, three ring binders.... Showing my age....

 

I didn't find out the evaluations existed until I was half way through my program... No social media back then.... Programming was done on HP-3000....

[+ Charlie]

It is impossible to generalize on this subject, because even two respondents who went to the same graduate school at the same time may give you different anecdotal impressions. So this is mine alone. I went to a small liberal arts college, where I got an excellent education, majoring in the humanities. Then I went to an Ivy League graduate school, where I had a few brilliant professors, and a number of tenured mediocrities who were coasting on reputations that had been made years earlier (and probably hadn't really been deserved even then). Several years later, I went to a different major university, where I had a few excellent teachers in that same field. A decade after that, I started a graduate program in a different field, at another major university, where most of the professors were so appallingly bad that the man who was supposed to be my advisor used to constantly beg me for advice on how to teach his course. Finally, a quarter century after my first graduate school experience, I started in a graduate program at yet another well known university, but dropped out when I realized that the senior faculty members in the department were, to put it bluntly, incompetent (the school phased out the graduate major in that department after I left)..

 

All of these were private universities whose names you would immediately recognize--I have never attended a public university, so I can't comment on them. And it is quite possible that if you were to attend one of these schools today, in another department or even in the same departments, your experience could be very different.

[SeattleWorkingMan]

I find that my own love of the subject and desire to learn has made up for mediocre instructors. Even mediocre teachers often provide meaningful reading lists and well-designed projects. Also, finding students in your cohort who have similar interests, work ethic, and passion can make even mediocre classes useful

[+ WilliamM]

I find that my own love of the subject and desire to learn has made up for mediocre instructors. Even mediocre teachers often provide meaningful reading lists and well-designed projects

 

I agree in part. But, I believe there is a huge differenent between an excellent, engaged professor and someone who just provides a wonderful reading list, but only vaguely follows up in lectures and disussions in class. Of course, most professors are somewhere in between.

 

My worst experience was a proofessor in history who apparently argued for years that history classes rarely provided detailed information about battles, and just the peace treaty that settled the war. I took his class last fall. The reading list was superb. But, the battles were only vaguely covered in class; he talked much more about his philosoply of life and his family.

[+ friendofsheila]

Fewer students in grad classes, so perhaps more opportunities for engagement.

 

But just like everyone says, it depends. In my program, the profs had to cover undergrad classes too, so they were swamped. I'd go in for advisement in Sept with my grad staff mentor, and his next available slot to speak to me was mid-November.

[+ friendofsheila]

Is there any website where you can read like Yelp, about schools? Maybe something to rate the professors?

[+ quoththeraven]

Studies suggest teacher evaluations are driven by bias and thus are not helpful. https://www.michigandaily.com/section/viewpoints/viewpoint-student-evaluations-%E2%80%94-treat-caution

 

Finding students in the program and asking around might produce better results.

[+ Charlie]

Having both designed and administered evaluations of professors, I can tell you that they are only of value if they are filled out by every student in the class, at least half way through the semester but before final grades, and the only questions that are likely to reveal consistent results are those that are extremely objective and factual (i.e., "Did the professor provide a written syllabus during the first week of class?") or global (i.e., "Overall, would you say he/she is a good professor?"). Surprisingly, even those who have a problem with a professor about some issue are often fair in their overall evaluation.

[+ FreshFluff]

Studies suggest teacher evaluations are driven by bias and thus are not helpful. https://www.michigandaily.com/section/viewpoints/viewpoint-student-evaluations-—-treat-caution

 

Finding students in the program and asking around might produce better results.

 

School based reviews (not the tiny sample ones online) are pretty useful in sussing out the top and bottom professors. You could ask around, but you need to ask enough people to overcome biases there as well.

 

The extent of bias based on the sexual orientation of the professor depends, of course, on the location of the university. If you're at, say, NYU, I wouldn't worry about it.

[+ WilliamM]

Having both designed and administered evaluations of professors, I can tell you that they are only of value if they are filled out by every student in the class, at least half way through the semester but before final grades, and the only questions that are likely to reveal consistent results are those that are extremely objective and factual (i.e., "Did the professor provide a written syllabus during the first week of class?") or global (i.e., "Overall, would you say he/she is a good professor?"). Surprisingly, even those who have a problem with a professor about some issue are often fair in their overall evaluation.

 

I have looked at dozens and dozens of student evaluations of professors over the years. If they are administered the way you suggest it is extremely likely that evalustions of good teacher will remain excellent year after year. Poor teachers may vary more, but they have very, very few excellent years.

[JayCeeKy]

Hey Chris. I graduated from a state university graduate school with a MSW degree. Subsequently I got my LCSW and worked in community mental health for a number of years. Prior to entering Social Work school, I had received a Master’s degree in counseling psychology from a private university on the West Coast. I found the professors at the private university much more approachable and much more interested in students’ lives. Having said that, the profs at the state university were almost always welcoming and eager to help students, when asked. Of course, there were many more students at the state school – but the tuition was much cheaper. Bottom line: ANY school of Social Work is going to have some great people – I mean, it is social work!

 

If you are wondering if the curriculum is going to be different at a state Social Work school versus a private school – they are all pretty much the same since they are all accredited by the “Council on Social Work Education.” You will get pretty much the exact same amount of clinical experience wherever you go. You many also want to consider getting your MSW online – the University of Southern California has a great program – even though you may never set foot on the USC campus!

 

As far as working in the field of chemical dependency, I found that many CD programs are still geared to the old “take no prisoners” 12-Step approach which is usually very confrontational – an approach that I found, for the most part, to be shame-based and not very effective (for most folks). Programs that use Motivational Interviewing, Harm Reduction, CBT, and positive reinforcement are more to my liking. Social Work is a great field – very challenging but also very rewarding (not necessarily money-wise though salaries are fairly good once you reach management). Since you say you have a BSW I assume that you will only need one year to get your MSW – it will be a busy year!

[+ friendofsheila]

Studies suggest teacher evaluations are driven by bias and thus are not helpful. https://www.michigandaily.com/section/viewpoints/viewpoint-student-evaluations-—-treat-caution

 

Finding students in the program and asking around might produce better results.

 

I'd go for both, keeping in mind your warning about the evaluations.

[ChrisWydeman]

As far as working in the field of chemical dependency, I found that many CD programs are still geared to the old “take no prisoners” 12-Step approach which is usually very confrontational – an approach that I found, for the most part, to be shame-based and not very effective (for most folks). Programs that use Motivational Interviewing, Harm Reduction, CBT, and positive reinforcement are more to my liking. Social Work is a great field – very challenging but also very rewarding (not necessarily money-wise though salaries are fairly good once you reach management). Since you say you have a BSW I assume that you will only need one year to get your MSW – it will be a busy year!

MI and harm reduction have been proven to be far more effective than using confrontation or shame when dealing with chemical dependency. Its a tremendous disservice to patients to have them shut down or make them feel worse about their current predicament.