In San Francisco, don't call someone who steals your bike a "criminal."

[+ FreshFluff]

San Francisco neighbor says don't call thieves 'criminals'

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Political-correctness-San-Francisco-criminal-6598509.php

 

Is it wrong to call someone who steals a "criminal"?

 

In a recent thread on NextDoor, a group of neighbors living in the Noe Valley-Glen Park area [which includes the Castro and Mission] were engaged in a discussion around the city's crime and debated whether labeling a person who commits petty theft as a "criminal" is offensive.

 

In the site's Crime and Safety area, where residents share strategies for fighting crime, Malkia Cyril of S.F. suggests that her neighbors stop using the label because it shows lack of empathy and understanding.

 

Cyril pointed out that instead of calling the thief who took the bicycle from your garage a criminal, you could be more respectful and call him or her "the person who stole my bicycle."

 

"I [suggest] that people who commit property crimes are human and deserved to be referred to in terms that acknowledge that," Cyril, who's the executive director of the Center for Media Justice in Oakland, writes in the thread.

 

"I think we should think twice before speaking in disparaging terms about 'those criminals,'" she adds later in the thread.

 

Cyril started the thread because she wanted to shift the NextDoor conversations about security cameras, alarms and the police to more thoughtful discussions about strategies for addressing the cause of crime. In her posts, she blames our societal problems — gentrification, economic inequality, lack of affordable housing, the defunding of public schools — for pushing people into lives of crime.

[+ honcho]

In a recent thread on NextDoor, a group of neighbors living in the Noe Valley-Glen Park area [which includes the Castro and Mission] were engaged in a discussion around the city's crime and debated whether labeling a person who commits petty theft as a "criminal" is offensive.

 

That there was discussion and debate suggests that not everybody living in SF agrees with her (entirely).

 

A good friend of mine who had worked in tech for many, many years, and had an undergraduate double major

in math and music, decided to try teaching in the public schools here, and gave up after a couple of years.

 

To him the problems just seemed insurmountable; you can add to the list of societal problems: clueless children having children who in turn have no discipline or idea about working to solve a problem.

[+ FreshFluff]

That there was discussion and debate suggests that not everybody living in SF agrees with her (entirely).

 

Yes, true. The thread title is kind of glib.

 

I'm more sympathetic to her argument than you would expect. However, that doesn't change the fact that someone who steals something is indeed a thief. Moreover, trying to address the causes of crime and being concerned with the security of our possessions aren't mutually exclusive.

[Rudynate]

That there was discussion and debate suggests that not everybody living in SF agrees with her (entirely).

 

A good friend of mine who had worked in tech for many, many years, and had an undergraduate double major

in math and music, decided to try teaching in the public schools here, and gave up after a couple of years.

 

To him the problems just seemed insurmountable; you can add to the list of societal problems: clueless children having children who in turn have no discipline or idea about working to solve a problem.

 

 

My niece is an assistant elementary school principal in the San Francisco Public Schools. Her school is in the Bayview district, one of the worst neighborhoods in San Francisco. She has some ghastly stories, e.g. an incorrigible little kid who had failed in one foster home after another. He showed up at school one day carrying a packed suitcase, said his foster parents had told him to bring it to school with him. They were leaving it up to the school to deal with him and tell him that he'd been thrown out of yet another foster home.

[mattr]

San Francisco neighbor says don't call thieves 'criminals'

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Political-correctness-San-Francisco-criminal-6598509.php

 

Is it wrong to call someone who steals a "criminal"?

 

In a recent thread on NextDoor, a group of neighbors living in the Noe Valley-Glen Park area [which includes the Castro and Mission] were engaged in a discussion around the city's crime and debated whether labeling a person who commits petty theft as a "criminal" is offensive.

 

In the site's Crime and Safety area, where residents share strategies for fighting crime, Malkia Cyril of S.F. suggests that her neighbors stop using the label because it shows lack of empathy and understanding.

 

Cyril pointed out that instead of calling the thief who took the bicycle from your garage a criminal, you could be more respectful and call him or her "the person who stole my bicycle."

 

"I [suggest] that people who commit property crimes are human and deserved to be referred to in terms that acknowledge that," Cyril, who's the executive director of the Center for Media Justice in Oakland, writes in the thread.

 

"I think we should think twice before speaking in disparaging terms about 'those criminals,'" she adds later in the thread.

 

Cyril started the thread because she wanted to shift the NextDoor conversations about security cameras, alarms and the police to more thoughtful discussions about strategies for addressing the cause of crime. In her posts, she blames our societal problems — gentrification, economic inequality, lack of affordable housing, the defunding of public schools — for pushing people into lives of crime.

 

You can't fix stupid....If, god forbid, she were raped, would she refer to her rapist as "the person who had sex with me"?

[Rudynate]

Yes, true. The thread title is kind of glib.

 

I'm more sympathetic to her argument than you would expect. However, that doesn't change the fact that someone who steals something is indeed a thief. Moreover, trying to address the causes of crime and being concerned with the security of our possessions aren't mutually exclusive.

 

 

I don't think it's actually that radical. All it amounts to is focusing on the behavior rather than labeling the perpetrator. It's an idea that's been around for decades. Nobody would blame anybody who called someone who stole from them "a criminal." It shows creativity and thoughtfulness to rethink such a widely-accepted phenomenon.

[MsGuy]

What do you call someone who does a thousand dollars worth of property damage in order to steal something worth a hundred dollars for which he's gonna get 15 dollars when he sells it on?

 

Not a hypothetical question.

[sincitymix]

San Francisco neighbor says don't call thieves 'criminals'

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Political-correctness-San-Francisco-criminal-6598509.php

 

Is it wrong to call someone who steals a "criminal"?

 

In a recent thread on NextDoor, a group of neighbors living in the Noe Valley-Glen Park area [which includes the Castro and Mission] were engaged in a discussion around the city's crime and debated whether labeling a person who commits petty theft as a "criminal" is offensive.

 

In the site's Crime and Safety area, where residents share strategies for fighting crime, Malkia Cyril of S.F. suggests that her neighbors stop using the label because it shows lack of empathy and understanding.

 

Cyril pointed out that instead of calling the thief who took the bicycle from your garage a criminal, you could be more respectful and call him or her "the person who stole my bicycle."

 

"I [suggest] that people who commit property crimes are human and deserved to be referred to in terms that acknowledge that," Cyril, who's the executive director of the Center for Media Justice in Oakland, writes in the thread.

 

"I think we should think twice before speaking in disparaging terms about 'those criminals,'" she adds later in the thread.

 

Cyril started the thread because she wanted to shift the NextDoor conversations about security cameras, alarms and the police to more thoughtful discussions about strategies for addressing the cause of crime. In her posts, she blames our societal problems — gentrification, economic inequality, lack of affordable housing, the defunding of public schools — for pushing people into lives of crime.

 

Hmmmm.. I dunno, it just seems like to much PC is being slipped into our lives. What shall we call them? "The person who stole my bicycle" is a thief... but I suppose they will object to the word thief. Perhaps I should say "The person who borrowed my bicycle without my permission with an indeterminate future return time" ?

 

I can see her point to a degree about the societal problems... but even still, I was raised by parents who taught me right from wrong. In even my lowest moments in life, I never once contemplated thievery, larceny, hooliganism, and all the other terms that could be used.

Education, however lacking in some public sectors, is still education. The information is still presented, yes the teachers can be burnt out, and have no incentive to push to teach.. but the students have to want to learn. I have seen so many students in my college classes that could barely read much less string along an entire sentence.. yet they passed English and creative writing classes with an A.. mainly due to the fact the head coach had a "talk" with the teacher... who neglected to shut the door properly... so we heard the "prize football player" "cant afford to not have him miss practice" "cant have him on academic probation" "you aren't tenured yet, play along and pass him or you wont be here next year" "alumni require.." so yeah the super stud (yeah he was hot ) WHITE (In case some people think this is totally about race, its not just the other ethnic races that have problems reading) guy got an A. Did he learn much in the class? Probably not. He was at best a functioning illiterate. (I did spend time with him during group study and group projects.. so yeah.. I know what his capabilities were)

 

So.. rather long winded and a tangent.. but people should really stop pushing all the blame on society.

[+ bigjoey]

Do we have to rename the old classic movie or is it banned in San Francisco:

 

http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/great-movie-the-bicycle-thief--bicycle-thieves-1949

 

Personally, the PC language will only lead to more stealing of bicycles. If you want to stop the behavior, be honest and call it what it is and deal with it directly. In Saudi Arabia, they have little theft as they call it what it is and chop off a hand; people think twice before stealing there; very effective theft prevention.

[MiamiLooker]

Let's just lower the bar.

[calrichmond]

I don't know, but anyone who steals is a thief. There was far too much political correctness in SF, which is one of the reasons I never wanted to live there.

 

The argument, in my opinion, over what to call a thief is incredibly stupid.

[+ nycman]

Now I remember why I never moved to SF.......

[Lookin]

I won't fault Cyril for introducing the idea into public discussion. Her day job would make her sensitive to the motivations of those who steal, and she no doubt knows more than I do.

 

If her novel point-of-view has some useful bits, or causes others to think of better ideas, it sure won't hurt.

 

The increased income disparity we're seeing now will most likely foster more theft. We'll need more and better ways to help deal with it.

 

And, while the Saudis do use a pretty heavy stick on thieves, they also know a thing or two about carrots. Newly crowned King Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud just handed everybody between five and ten thousand dollars.

 

That would buy a pretty nice bike.

[+ purplekow]

People who engage in criminal activities are criminals. Adjective, noun. This is the English language. There is nothing pejorative about the word, some people just do not care for people who engage in criminal activities. The people who engage in criminal activities cost each one of us lots and lots of time and money. The people who engage in criminal activities are mostly people who need money but most people who need money do not engage in criminal activities because they are not fucking criminals. Calling an egg a duck will not make it quack.

[+ azdr0710]

reminds me of the ancient joke:

 

Why is California like granola?....Take away the fruits and nuts and all you have are the flakes

[Rudynate]

I suppose not everyone is cut out for the free-wheeling intellectual climate in California. People often move here and are never able to get comfortable. After three or four years, they go back where they came from. But it's very stimulating for the right sort of person. I've lived here for more than twenty-five years and never imagined a life so full.

[+ purplekow]

I am not sure you can classify the people of any state that elects Arnold Schwartzenegger governor as promoting an intellectual climate. Seems that particular vote came when the intellectual climate was in a drought.

[Rudynate]

I am not sure you can classify the people of any state that elects Arnold Schwartzenegger governor as promoting an intellectual climate. Seems that particular vote came when the intellectual climate was in a drought.

 

Was Arnold really any more of a clown than just about any Republican officeholder?

[rvwnsd]

I am not sure you can classify the people of any state that elects Arnold Schwartzenegger governor as promoting an intellectual climate. Seems that particular vote came when the intellectual climate was in a drought.

Well, we really had no choice. No Democrat but the lieutenant governor would run in the combination recall election/gubernatorial election. He was no prize and the alternatives to Schwarzenegger were pretty crappy. The Governator was really the best of a bad lot. However, there is no excuse for the second term.

 

That being said, I don't think that one voice speaks for the entire state. Would a similar comment made by someone from Tulsa been as widely broadcast? I highly doubt it.

[Guest]

Oh, God, do you think that San Franciscans are the only people who absolve criminals of responsibility for their behaviors, and blame society instead? This seems like the big mania in this country. As cell phone videos and other video taping make everyone a "video reporter," it's so popular these days to show the aftermath after some punk punches a cop. They wouldn't dream of showing what led up to the aftermath, though. Full honesty and full disclosure just won't do. A high school girl mouths off at her teacher, and then punches a cop when he tells the girl to leave. The cop takes her down, and she becomes a legendary heroine. In a sane world, a girl who would hit a cop should stay in a juvenile correction center until she's 21. in the US of today, she's put up on the pedestal, and the COP get fired!! Oh, and of course there's a pathway to riches as there's now a civil lawsuit pending!

What we should do is lock this piece of trash up, and get some Singapore-style caning on her ass. Then they should drag her piece of shit mother (or parents, if there were actually two people raising this monstrosity), cane the mother a dozen times, and pull any remaining children out of that household and spread them out across the country in the hopes that one can avoid more sociopathic monsters from being foisted onto society. Or maybe the Saudis have a better idea. Hit a cop, wake up with an amputated hand.

[Guest]

What do you call someone who does a thousand dollars worth of property damage in order to steal something worth a hundred dollars for which he's gonna get 15 dollars when he sells it on?

 

Not a hypothetical question.

 

Well, I'd like to call him "hand-less inmate":

http://www.barenakedislam.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/handy.jpg

 

http://api.ning.com/files/Vya4lrWVeomep6S62avX8k1erTzMBSLlHTc*5-JtmA*9xlZVLpBcKeo4lrqzUjejXEUSujsXj8Zzs358t0KWmDrtT6E5zrzt/43.png

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2270619/Sharia-saw-Iran-releases-pictures-brutal-amputation-machine-chopping-mans-fingers-bid-clamp-election-dissent.html

 

http://www.rawa.org/handcut3.htm

[Samfoslom]

I would simply call the perpetrator a "son of a bitch." Which of course, is a sexist assumption, but more satisfying than "person born of an unchaste woman."

[MrMiniver]

This is what my students would call a FIRST WORLD PROBLEM. LOL.

[mike carey]

This is what my students would call a FIRST WORLD PROBLEM. LOL.

It is indeed. But it raises an interesting question of when you should call criminals out for what they undoubtably are. Convicts were transported to New South Wales for stealing a handkerchief or a loaf of bread. Under the law they were clearly criminals, but were they really? Society has two incompatible definitions of a criminal, 'someone who breaks a law that is defined as criminal' and 'a dangerous lawbreaker who is a threat to society'. The hypothetical bicycle thief in SF is clearly a criminal in the first case but more ambiguously so in the second. I took the instance cited in the original post as being a call to stop conflating 'breaking the law' with 'criminality', and the reason behind the call being that the word 'criminal' implies that a serial killer is the same as someone who steals your bowl of cornflakes.

[gallahadesquire]

I'll throw my hat in the ring:

 

"Criminal" may, indeed, be too harsh of a word. "Thief" seems perfectly fitted for this crime.

"You may put your car in the multi-level parking structure."

"What? Oh, you mean the garage."

 

"Do you have your personnel identification-authorization modules?"

"Yes, I have my keys."