Do you speak another language besides English?

[AdamSmith]

I was either told or read somewhere that one reason English triumphed over French in England after the Norman Conquest was that the Norman nobility used to send their children to Paris for education. Eventually the Parisians made fun of their strange Norman French. So the nobility upset started speaking English instead. It's probably a myth.

 

Gman

 

This reminds me of something sort of relevant : the English language has about three times as many words in it as French or (I think) German. Because of the threefold sources Anglo, Saxon and Norman. So we have the Anglo words for meat on the hoof (the oppressed Anglos after 1066 And All That tending the flocks) and the Norman words for meat cooked and served up. Etc.

 

And the Saxon invasions and so on.

[Wolfer]

I'm always in awe of my friend who regularly travels the world. She is fluent (completely!) in Dutch, English, Spanish and Italian. And she can also speak quite good French and German.

 

I have an ear for languages and pick them up quite quickly. But what bothers me is that if you don't use a language, the knowledge does get rusty. And that's what's ultimately has kept me from investing the time in learning new languages. Because if you don't use them a lot, it seems a waste to put so much time and effort into it.

 

I am completely fluent in English and Dutch is my native language. I can carry a very short conversation in French and understand German a little bit.

 

I read all my books in English too. It's weird now for me if I read in Dutch. My ex- husband has the same proficiency in English and our conversations would switch between Dutch and English mid-sentence if one of the languages was lacking in the right expression or vocabulary.

[+ WilliamM]

Gman, there is virtually no accent difference in Australia. There are some differences in vocabulary, but they are minor. There are accent differences between Australia and New Zealand, but none between the east and west coasts of Australia.

 

I love Australia and have made three long visits. It always takes me a small amount of time to get used to the accent, but it's usually very easy. Except once that is on a bus in Sydney, on my first day. I could not understand a word. I finally introduced myself to the two guys, somewhere in their 20s, who were sitting next to me. It turned out they were from Sweden and speaking in their native language. Of course, they also spoke English. I was a dumb American!

[whipped guy]

I love Australia and have made three long visits. It always takes me a small amount of time to get used to the accent, but it's usually very easy. Except once that is on a bus in Sydney, on my first day. I could not understand a word. I finally introduced myself to the two guys, somewhere in their 20s, who were sitting next to me. It turned out they were from Sweden and speaking in their native language. Of course, they also spoke English. I was a dumb American!

Like the time I was sitting on a bus is Italy many years ago and two girls were speaking in what sounded like German but somewhat like Italian. They were speaking in the dialect from their home town that was on the Austrian-Italian border. Fortunately they spoke English as well!

[samandtham]

From what I've read-aside from the plasticity of a child's brain which is set up for learning language-one reason children learn is they aren't self-conscious about making mistakes. They will say things ungrammatically without any problems. Adults don't want to speak incorrectly.

Gman

 

My French tutor back then said that in the real world, no one is grading you when you're speaking a foreign language. Native speakers would know that you are not a fluent speaker, and will let but the most egregious error pass. For me, at least back then, boosting my confidence (i.e. actually attempting to speak / write in French) is far more important than saying something grammatically correct.

 

Swiss German and standard German (hochdeutsch, "high German") are NOT mutually intelligible. Those living in Swiss German areas are taught standard German in elementary school, so they understand and can speak it, but it is completely different from the Swiss German dialects. A German cannot generally understand Swiss Germans (and there are various Swiss German dialects in any case).

 

And yes, the guy from Wallis is super cute.

 

It's kind of funny that I was most taken aback by the "merci" in the video. I kind of understood some of it, but you're right. I'll be hopeless in Switzerland with just standard German.

 

Tagalog (Filipino) is technically the first language I spoke, but I learned English very quickly after starting kindergarten. My mother tells me it only took me a month to learn English & speak like a Canadian (K-Grade 2 in Toronto). Of course, I speak with an American accent (very Bostonian, but not the "famous" Boston accent), but my enunciation is very Canadian (Canadians tend to enunciate better; Americans tend to mumble). Every couple of months, someone will ask me if I'm Canadian even though it's been over 40 years since we left Toronto. Unfortunately, I learned English so well that I forgot how to speak Tagalog, but I understand it well because my mother still speaks to me in Tagalog plus I heard it with my aunts, uncles, and parents' friends my whole childhood. I wish I could still speak it because you get treated like royalty in damn near every hotel and hospital you stay in if you speak Tagalog.

 

A Filipina friend told me that if we are being "strict," the official language of the Philippines is Filipino. Tagalog refers to the dialect where Filipino was largely based from. Is it true?

 

Ever the cliché, one of the things I asked her is how to curse in Tagalog. I was surprised at some recognizable Spanish...like puñet@ and put@.

[+ WilliamM]

Like the time I was sitting on a bus is Italy many years ago and two girls were speaking in what sounded like German but somewhat like Italian. They were speaking in the dialect from their home town that was on the Austrian-Italian border. Fortunately they spoke English as well!

 

My experience has an o.k. ending. In 2011, I spent most of August in Stockholm, where (90%) of the population speaks English. I remember particularly meeting some working class guys who were drinking beer in a public park in Stockholm on a Saturday. They love Sweden, including the cradle-to-grave welfare system and eagerly asked about NYC and LA, while handing me beer after beer. One odd incident: Swedes put on winter clothing on Sept. 1 regardless of the weather. I tried a blanket, and, of course, looked ridiculous with sweat on my face and the rest of me.

[Rudynate]

A friend living in Switzerland had a similar experience. She had to ask someone on the phone if she can speak High German because she had difficulty understanding Swiss German.

 

Now, I don't think "High German" connotes the level of its prestige nor do I know how Swiss German is perceived by the Germans as a language, but the person on the phone sounded rather frustrated, according to her.

 

 

High German or "Hochdeutsch" is just Standard German. I don't have much difficulty understanding Swiss German.

[+ Charlie]

Really? I can read Italian fairly easily just from French etc but can't understand it spoken at all.

 

Always & ever worth this:

 

Per me si va ne la città dolente,

per me si va ne l’etterno dolore,

per me si va tra la perduta gente.

 

Giustizia mosse il mio alto fattore:

fecemi la divina podestate,

la somma sapienza e ‘l primo amore.

 

Dinanzi a me non fuor cose create

se non etterne, e io etterno duro.

Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch’intrate.

I wonder what Dante's spoken Italian would sound like to a modern Italian.

[AdamSmith]

That reminds that essentially I learned Italian from the Sinclair facing-page Dante. Italian (at my pidgin level) was so much easier than any other language to acquire.

[+ Charlie]

 

 

 

 

 

English has really become the international language, mostly thanks to the European Union. Kids in Europe might study French or German or Spanish, it all depends, but almost all study English. And because English is so prevalent in non-English speaking countries, the Chinese are in a fervor to learn English. One of China's recent self-made billionaires made his money by starting the most successful chain of schools for learning English. I spoke with a Brit recently who worked for a German firm with 90% German employees, but because it was an international company (aerotech) with clients all over the globe, only English was spoken in the office and at all work functions. Because English really has become the international language, I don't think American schoolkids should be forced to learn other languages. If they want to, great. But many colleges require foreign language study in their distribution requirements (mine did), done to appease the strident multiculturalists, but a waste of time and energy if the kid's not interested.

My spouse worked for awhile in a professional office in Singapore. Most of the local staff were Chinese Singaporeans. He said that when the staff were conversing among themselves about personal matters, they always spoke Mandarin, but the minute they started to talk with one another about their work, they switched to English.

[+ deej]

Deej you make an excellent point. I lived in Guatemala, for two years, and the Spanish there is indeed very different from that in Mexico. The reason is, that in Guatemala, a country roughly the size of Tennessee there are 21 Mayan languages and 2 non Mayan languages spoken. Many of the Mayan languages are unintelligible to each other. All of these indigenous languages have had a huge influence on the pronunciation of Spanish and many indigenous words have entered the Guatemalan Spanish vocabulary. At the conclusion of my Peace Corp tour the State Department sent a Spanish Language expert to examine and grade each returning volunteer’s command of the language. Present also, during the testing, was a local Spanish language expert who entered the testing process only when we used a local word, expression, or grammatical construction unique to Guatemala.

 

Somehow I expected to hear from you in this thread. There are many regional dialects of Spanish. The spaniards always have adjustments to make in latin America because of the Castillan influence on their own language, etc.

 

But that's not unique to Spanish! Look at what Americans have done to the mother tongue -- even in-country.

 

A coworker grew up in the USSR but has lived in the US (legally, a citizen now) since before the wall came down. (And boy is it fun watching HER opinions on current events in Russia!) English is still very much a second language for her and she has major problems any time she travels in the deep south, for example.

[AdamSmith]

and she has major problems any time she travels in the deep south, for example.

 

I can drive 30 minutes into the country outside Raleigh (where I grew up!) and not understand one word.

[Guest]

A Filipina friend told me that if we are being "strict," the official language of the Philippines is Filipino. Tagalog refers to the dialect where Filipino was largely based from. Is it true?

 

Yes, according to Wikipedia....

Filipino is the standard-register of the Tagalog language and the national language of the Philippines, sharing official status with the English language. As of 2007, Tagalog is the first language of 28 million people, or about one-third of the Philippine population, while 45 million speak Filipino as their second language. Filipino is among the 185 languages of the Philippines identified in the Ethnologue. Officially, Filipino is defined by the Commission on the Filipino Language (KWF) as "the native language, spoken and written, in Metro Manila, the National Capital Region, and in other urban centers of the archipelago." Filipino is ideally a pluricentric language. Indeed, there have been observed "emerging varieties of Filipino which deviate from the grammatical properties of Tagalog" in Davao City and Cebu, which together with Metro Manila form the three largest metropolitan areas in the Philippines. In reality, however, Filipino has been variously described as "simply Tagalog in syntax and grammar, with no grammatical element or lexicon coming from ... other major Philippine languages," and as "essentially a formalized version of Tagalog." In most contexts, Filipino is understood to be an alternative name for Tagalog, or the Metro Manila dialect of Tagalog.

[+ deej]

I can drive 30 minutes into the country outside Raleigh (where I grew up!) and not understand one word.

 

Exactly. I always said the same thing living in the DC area. In fact, you'd get entirely different language differences going north, south, or west.

[AdamSmith]

Exactly. I always said the same thing living in the DC area. In fact, you'd get entirely different language differences going north, south, or west.

 

Also interestingly here in NC on the Coastal Plain (eastern third of the state) especially close to the coast there are pockets of amazingly preserved Elizabethan English pronunciation which was after all the root of the Southern accent.

[+ purplekow]

So true! I was having a discussion regarding that with a cousin just the other day. There are so many Italian words that our parents and grandparemts never used. Only my paternal grandfather was well educated in Italy. I even have one if his textbooks that was printed in Italy and mentions Victor Emmanuel as being the king! He was fluent in Italian and Neapolitan dialect. Plus, he spoke English as if his ancestors came over on the Mayflower. The rest of the family spoke only more or less a Neapolitan dialect and when they did not know a word for something they made one up based on an English word. As an example for some reason they never had a work for "Party". The Italian equivalent of festa was reserved for large scale events and most often religious festivals such as 'a festa di San Gennaro... the feast of Saint Gennaro. When Someone gave a birthday party if was referenced as o party! I can list quite a few the funniest of which is what the bathroom was called. It was o bacouse... the back house. Now I heard this Italian word well into the 1970's long after back houses ceased to exist!

 

Interestingly, regarding food, our ancestors preserved the recipes that were common at the beginning of the Twentieth Century in Italy. Recipes that no longer exist in Italy except perhaps in very rural areas or only in special regions.

 

Now regarding the pronunciation of such foods! Mozzarella, tomato, and basil was never referenced as mozzarella, pomodoro, e basilico. It was muzzarell', pumarol' e basinicol! With the last often becoming vasinicol... because as in Spanish the b and v were often interchanged!

 

So much for Italian dialect 101! Plus as xaf mentions add in the Sicilian dialect and you're in another world!!!! I know because a a few married into the family!

It took me forever to figure out that bacouse was backhouse.

[Guest]

Because English really has become the international language, I don't think American schoolkids should be forced to learn other languages. If they want to, great. But many colleges require foreign language study in their distribution requirements (mine did), done to appease the strident multiculturalists, but a waste of time and energy if the kid's not interested.

 

Well, to a point I agree, to the extent that teaching something to someone who's not interested is a waste of time. But it is NOT a waste of time to learn a foreign language, and I think it's the educators' role to convince students why learning foreign languages can be so valuable. As I told one of my nieces, I've never really had any use for the trigonometry or anthropology, etc., that I learned in high school. But one subject I use every single day at work is Spanish. Here in California, 30% or the population speaks Spanish as their first language, and 20% of the population can ONLY converse in Spanish. Needless to say, being bilingual makes a person much more valuable when in comes to getting hired. In the US, physicians are required by law to provide a certified medical interpreter for patients who are not fluent in English. What's amazing, is that the physician or medical organization has to pay 100% of this cost out of its own pocket, and cannot charge any of this to either insurers or to patients!! Given the cost of these CMI's, it basically means that the physician or medical organization will barely make a profit each time they have to use a CMI. While at my job I do not have to incur this cost personally, I do get bonus $$ each month for having passed oral exams certifying myself as bilingual (I actually passed two, but only get the bonus $$ once ). It does add up.

Foreign languages can help not just those who interact with the public at work, but also those in business (another niece chose Mandarin for that reason as one of her foreign languages). Of course, knowing foreign languages can greatly enhance one's foreign travel experiences for those of us able to do so (although I realize that's not the case for every American). I, for one, find Hawaiians to be among the rudest people on the planet, and am very happy I can easily take my winter holidays in Mexico or Central America rather than Hawaii. There are a number of South American trips that are still definitely on my bucket list (I haven't been to Machu Pichu yet!). And, of course, knowing the language certainly helps if you're trying to hook up with someone during your travels.

I think students should need to learn foreign languages, and, as part of their studies, they should be required to list reasons why learning foreign languages is so valuable. It's really well-invested time in my view.

[Lookin]

http://hyacinthbucketscookbook.weebly.com/uploads/1/3/7/6/13765701/7224387.jpg

Do I speak Greek? Only when

seriously under the influence, old girl,

then they tell me I'm fluent.

[whipped guy]

It took me forever to figure out that bacouse was backhouse.

Incidentally I'm not sure if my spelling is totally correct, but then again I don't think most of my dialect speaking relatives were adept at spelling anyway so guess it does not really matter!

[Epigonos]

Many years ago I had a crazy language experience in Kolkata (Calcutta) India. I was staying in the Kolkata Oberoi Hotel (then the finest hotel in the city). Returning to the hotel one afternoon I saw and overheard two women, obviously a mother and older daughter, absolutely furious because the desk personnel couldn’t understand them. They spoke ONLY Spanish and simply couldn’t understand why no one at the desk understood them. I asked the desk manager if he would like me to translate as I spoke Spanish. The look of absolute relief on his face was something to behold. I then offered my services to the two women and they happily accepted. I translated and arrangements, for them to rent a room, were quickly made. I had no further dealings with the two women but from that moment on the hotel manager and the desk clerks treated me like a god. To this day I still find it difficult to believe that somebody would expect a hotel desk clerk in Kolkata, India to speak Spanish.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Epigonos

[Guest]

I had no further dealings with the two women but from that moment on the hotel manager and the desk clerks treated me like a god.

 

There's another reason to learn a foreign language for you! You never know when you might be treated like a god at a 5-star hotel! And for knowing the third most widely-spoken language on the planet after Mandarin and English...

[+ WilliamM]

Of course, knowing foreign languages can greatly enhance one's foreign travel experiences for those of us able to do so (although I realize that's not the case for every American). I, for one, find Hawaiians to be among the rudest people on the planet, and am very happy I can easily take my winter holidays in Mexico or Central America rather than Hawaii. There are a number of South American trips that are still definitely on my bucket list (I haven't been to Machu Pichu yet!). And, of course, knowing the language certainly helps if you're trying to hook up with someone during your travels.

 

I agree with most of your comments. The only foreign language I know is French, and the words & grammar more than the ability to speak French. Many visits to France and other French-speaking countries in the last 45 years have not been long enough to improve much. You may have an ability to learn languages that I lack, Unicorn. I do not regret taking five years of French in high school and college, but it has been frustrating since.

 

My first cousin has lived and worked in France for the last 12 years. She still says that by the end of the day, she is exhausted from speaking French all day. So maybe it's family thing -- not good at foreign languages.

 

Finally, most people in Europe speak at least some English, most under 40 are fluent. Even in the former Yugoslavia, I had no problem. Russia, on the other hand, is very difficult unless you find some students to help.

[+ Gar1eth]

I agree with most of your comments. The only foreign language I know is French, and the words & grammar more than the ability to speak French. Many visits to France and other French-speaking countries in the last 45 years have not been long enough to improve much. You may have an ability to learn languages that I lack, Unicorn. I do not regret taking five years of French in high school and college, but it has been frustrating since.

 

My first cousin has lived and worked in France for the last 12 years. She still says that by the end of the day, she is exhausted from speaking French all day. So maybe it's family thing -- not good at foreign languages.

 

Finally, most people in Europe speak at least some English, most under 40 are fluent. Even in the former Yugoslavia, I had no problem. Russia, on the other hand, is very difficult unless you find some students to help.

 

 

In 1989 I remember finding it very difficult to find an English speaker in Paris. I'm not talking about the man on the street. I don't expect an average New Yorker to know French. But I was trying to make reservations to leave Paris for Amsterdam. Wouldn't you have thought there would have been an English desk somewhere in the Gare du Nord to help me? Thankfully there was a Canadian who had been living in some French speaking part of Africa or maybe the Caribbean next to me in line who helped me make the reservation.

 

 

But I will say that my two years of high school Latin certainly helped me. I was always fairly good at grammar-but it certainly helped me improve. It also helped with my vocabulary. And if I hadn't learned about noun cases and declining in Latin beforehand, I'm not sure I would have done as well as I did in German in college. And it's funny, I remember a girl in my German class in college. She seemed intelligent. We were in groups one day. I remember remarking how I thought Latin was helping me in German. She said she had taken Latin in high school too but didn't see how the two were alike. I was stunned. I can only think her Latin class wasn't very good if she couldn't see the relationship in the grammar.

 

Gman

[Epigonos]

The Parisians have the reputation of being rude and intolerant with non-fluent French speakers. I’ve been in Paris a number of times and, as far as I’m concerned, it’s a bump-rap. I don’t speak a word of French and I have always been treated with the upmost kindness. I’m convinced it all relates as to how they are approached -- isn’t that the case ever where? I apologize for interrupting them and for not speaking French and then ask my question. I have always been treated graciously and on more than one case an individual has gone out of his/her way, walking me some distance, to make sure I’m going the right way. I am extremely fond of the Parisians!!!!!

[+ WilliamM]

The Parisians have the reputation of being rude and intolerant with non-fluent French speakers. I’ve been in Paris a number of times and, as far as I’m concerned, it’s a bump-rap. I don’t speak a word of French and I have always been treated with the upmost kindness. I’m convinced it all relates as to how they are approached -- isn’t that the case ever where? I apologize for interrupting them and for not speaking French and then ask my question. I have always been treated graciously and on more than one case an individual has gone out of his/her way, walking me some distance, to make sure I’m going the right way. I am extremely fond of the Parisians!!!!!

 

I agree completely. I have spent time in France a lot in the last 15 years: 2001, 2005, 2010, 2014. In the summer of 2005, I found an amateur tennis tournament in the Luxembourg Gardens. I watched several games, and then wandered away. When I came back, one of the matches was over. I asked the cutest player, "Did you win?" forgetting for a minute that I was in France. He laughed and we had a great conversation in English. He invited me back to see his next few matches and meet his family.

 

It does depend in how they are approached. I had a smile on my face when I asked "Did you win?"

 

Yes, I did occcasionally meet people who insisted on speaking French, but very few compared to my firest visit in 1973.