From Nike to B&BW - 'organized retail thieves' hitting the stores

[Ali Gator]

'Tis the season ?

From Nike to Bath & Body Works, reports of 'flash mobs of organized retail thieves' have already hit the stores this holiday season, brazenly walking off with thousands of dollars in merchandise. Most of the items can be sold online or on the streets  'quick and easy' over the next few weeks for low prices.

According to one detective in the HPD, a  'Bath & Body Works' in  Houston got hit the other day. Five people entered the store, grabbed the B&BW tote bags, filled them all with merchandise and walked out of the store - passing all 'points of retail sale'. The 27 year old 'ring leader' and her 25 year old boyfriend were identified as well as three other women who worked with them. Overall, since June of this year, they struck Houston area B&BW stores 31 times, sometimes hitting the same location twice in one day  - totaling over $10,000 in stolen merchandise (mostly three-wick candles and room sprays). Oftentimes, these five were 'out on probation' for stealing from these stores, when they decided to hit them again. 

https://youtu.be/LjHLThCeqjs

 

Earlier this week, a 'flash mob' of 17 people aged 15 - 20 years old hit a Nike store in LA, stealing over $12,000 worth of merchandise. The thieves escaped in five cars waiting outside the store. The whole ordeal was caught on camera.

https://news.sky.com/video/los-angeles-moment-flash-mob-steals-12-000-worth-of-goods-from-nike-store-13014392

 

According to the National Retail Federation survey, these are the top five cities (in order) for this growing criminal activity - Los Angeles, San Francisco-Oakland, Houston, New York and Seattle. A spokesperson for a Texas taskforce to combat the problem fears more and more brick and mortar stores will be closing in these cities, rather than put up with this increasing criminal activity.  (San Francisco has seen many big name department stores close their doors this past year, in which they blamed the 'flash mob organized crime' increase in their stores as a major reason for closing). 

 

[SouthOfTheBorder]

so many things in NYC stores behind locked glass cases.  I had to wait yesterday at CVS for someone to unlock the case for ice cream. 

a friend who works in a retail clothing chain in Manhattan tells of multiple walk-in gangs stealing everything in sight.  Staff is told to stand-down and it happens even with security people there.  I don’t think police bother to come anymore. Not sure if that’s still happening, but it was last year. 

no excuse for any of it.  I do think the root cause is rising income inequality and people thinking there is no way to better their lives. when people can’t meet basic survival needs & lose hope, then everything is on the table.  the people on this forum, including me have no idea what that’s like. San Francisco is ground zero for extreme income inequality and now it’s like a futuristic dystopian movie from 30 yrs ago with driverless cars, gleaming glass towers w extreme wealth and masses of homeless & drug addict zombies at street level.

 

[BSR]

16 hours ago, SouthOfTheBorder said:

I do think the root cause is rising income inequality and people thinking there is no way to better their lives. when people can’t meet basic survival needs & lose hope, then everything is on the table.  the people on this forum, including me have no idea what that’s like. San Francisco is ground zero for extreme income inequality and now it’s like a futuristic dystopian movie from 30 yrs ago with driverless cars, gleaming glass towers w extreme wealth and masses of homeless & drug addict zombies at street level.

What a steaming pile of cowplop.  Huge wealth inequality has plagued NYC for decades, even centuries, yet this explosion of shoplifting is quite recent.  Toothpaste wasn't locked up in 2019.

I think the root cause is a lot simpler:  if you can steal and get away with it, you're going to keep stealing.  Hey, it's a heckuva lot easier than working for a living.  No alarm clock, no boss, waaaaay better pay, choose your own hours, and best of all:  no jail! 

Back in 2022, just 327 individuals were responsible for ~30% of NYC's shoplifting arrests, yet despite their brazen recidivism, most of these super-repeat offenders were still free as a bird instead of behind bars.

What changed?  In 2019, a no-bail policy for nonviolent offenders was established.  City DAs with abysmal conviction rates see criminals, even those who commit violent crimes, as "victims."  These policies create a sense of lawlessness in which criminals are like kids in a (free) candy store.

[MscleLovr]

And yet the city authorities wonder why tourists (with all their spending) choose to go elsewhere

[+ sniper]

9 hours ago, BSR said:

What a steaming pile of cowplop.  Huge wealth inequality has plagued NYC for decades, even centuries, yet this explosion of shoplifting is quite recent.  Toothpaste wasn't locked up in 2019.

I think the root cause is a lot simpler:  if you can steal and get away with it, you're going to keep stealing.  Hey, it's a heckuva lot easier than working for a living.  No alarm clock, no boss, waaaaay better pay, choose your own hours, and best of all:  no jail! 

Back in 2022, just 327 individuals were responsible for ~30% of NYC's shoplifting arrests, yet despite their brazen recidivism, most of these super-repeat offenders were still free as a bird instead of behind bars.

What changed?  In 2019, a no-bail policy for nonviolent offenders was established.  City DAs with abysmal conviction rates see criminals, even those who commit violent crimes, as "victims."  These policies create a sense of lawlessness in which criminals are like kids in a (free) candy store.

I do think the current era is very quantifiably different in that median income and median housing costs have pretty much decoupled. This board skews older and has already climbed the ladder.  But rents havs climbed far beyond what people making average money can pay and still do things like save. Whether that's due to houseflippers, AirBNB, or venture capital is another question.

But I look at what my nieces and nephews are making now vs when I was starting out. Their pay is less than double and rents for equivalent housing is well over triple. And they have a higher loan burden than I did. We collectively pulled up the ladder behind us, consciously or not.

As for these smash and grabs, I will say I work in insurance and while burglary is up it's still not that high as a percentage of claims on a countrywide basis.  I think it's a very localized phenomenon that gets more publicity because everyone has a camera and the ability to broadcast now. Items being locked up is partly so the store doesn't have to pay a couple of security guards. Every business is reducing headcount and if these stores were staffed like they were 25 years ago that alone would deter a lot of petty theft. Crimes are crimes of opportunity. 

SF is an outlier because it's a small area that the wealthy really just completely took over and the surrounding areas are just as wealthy so the poor couldn't just shuffle over a bit 

[BSR]

7 hours ago, sniper said:

I do think the current era is very quantifiably different in that median income and median housing costs have pretty much decoupled. This board skews older and has already climbed the ladder.  But rents havs climbed far beyond what people making average money can pay and still do things like save. Whether that's due to houseflippers, AirBNB, or venture capital is another question.

But I look at what my nieces and nephews are making now vs when I was starting out. Their pay is less than double and rents for equivalent housing is well over triple. And they have a higher loan burden than I did. We collectively pulled up the ladder behind us, consciously or not.

Has income inequality gotten even worse?  Perhaps, although the gap between the Vanderbilts & Carnegies and the millions of immigrants who came to NYC with just the shirts on their backs was a helluva stretch.  Please note that there was no Section 8, Medicaid, or food stamps in the Gilded Age.  Back in the day, the poor literally starved.  Blaming the very recent explosion of shoplifting on income inequality is bullsh*t that might play well in ivory tower sociology departments, but nobody in the real world is buying it.

Edited Wednesday at 09:58 PM by BSR
Wording

[BSR]

7 hours ago, sniper said:

As for these smash and grabs, I will say I work in insurance and while burglary is up it's still not that high as a percentage of claims on a countrywide basis.  I think it's a very localized phenomenon that gets more publicity because everyone has a camera and the ability to broadcast now. Items being locked up is partly so the store doesn't have to pay a couple of security guards. Every business is reducing headcount and if these stores were staffed like they were 25 years ago that alone would deter a lot of petty theft. Crimes are crimes of opportunity. 

NY lost $4.4 billion to shoplifting in 2022.  The shoplifting crisis is real, not some overblown trending topic.

Your theory about fewer security guards is a possibility, I guess, but in all the discussion of this explosion in shoplifting, I've never seen anyone cite that as a cause.   Can you back up your claim?

I do agree that the shoplifting crisis is very much a localized phenomenon.  It's not nationwide, just in cities with soft-on-crime policies.  Once people figured out that they could steal all they wanted and get away with it, shoplifting exploded.

[KeepItReal]

1 hour ago, BSR said:

NY lost $4.4 billion to shoplifting in 2022.  The shoplifting crisis is real, not some overblown trending topic.

Your theory about fewer security guards is a possibility, I guess, but in all the discussion of this explosion in shoplifting, I've never seen anyone cite that as a cause.   Can you back up your claim?

I do agree that the shoplifting crisis is very much a localized phenomenon.  It's not nationwide, just in cities with soft-on-crime policies.  Once people figured out that they could steal all they wanted and get away with it, shoplifting exploded.

Keep in mind, CNBC reported that a number of large organizations are backing down on their claims (majority cutting by half) and admitting the losses are not from theft/shrinkage but bad inventory management. That is a big difference. 

[BSR]

38 minutes ago, KeepItReal said:

Keep in mind, CNBC reported that a number of large organizations are backing down on their claims (majority cutting by half) and admitting the losses are not from theft/shrinkage but bad inventory management. That is a big difference. 

So cut it in half.  $2.2 billion is still a sh*t-ton of shoplifting. 

And if you watch the video, none of the thieves is stealing bread to feed their families, LOL.

[+ Travis69]

This run in and grab theft has been going on since the early 80's.  Bloomingdales in Tysons Corner, Va (wealthy suburb) was hit multiple times when a friend worked in the area.  Always the same door and same dept.  Would assume others places were also hit but we didn't have bleached blonde bimbos on the news 24 hours a day hyping everything up and getting the public in an uproar.

[BSR]

10 minutes ago, Travis69 said:

This run in and grab theft has been going on since the early 80's.  Bloomingdales in Tysons Corner, Va (wealthy suburb) was hit multiple times when a friend worked in the area.  Always the same door and same dept.  Would assume others places were also hit but we didn't have bleached blonde bimbos on the news 24 hours a day hyping everything up and getting the public in an uproar.

Today's crisis is costing retailers $billions and forcing them to resort to locking hair dye up in lucite cases.

Can you provide any stats as to how widespread it was in the 80s?  I'm sure it did happen, but I'm guessing the problem was more isolated cases vs. today's epidemic, unless you have evidence to the contrary.

[+ sniper]

4 hours ago, BSR said:

Has income inequality gotten even worse?  Perhaps, although the gap between the Vanderbilts & Carnegies and the millions of immigrants who came to NYC with just the shirts on their backs was a helluva stretch.  Please note that there was no Section 8, Medicaid, or food stamps in the Gilded Age.  Back in the day, the poor literally starved.  Blaming the very recent explosion of shoplifting on income inequality is bullsh*t that might play well in ivory tower sociology departments, but nobody in the real world is buying it.

It's not just about the gap between the super-rich and everyone else. It's about the gap between the top 10-20% and everyone else, buying up real estate, walling themselves off in towns with no non-wealthy people, being able to float their kids as they take unpaid internships, etc. I maintain that it's markedly harder today for people who are of average ability but reasonably hardworking to get by and/or ahead. I'm  doing okay, but I'm doing okay in a game that is rigged, and more than I care to admit of my financial success was due to being in the right place at the right time.

[+ sniper]

The top 1% have pitted the next 9% against the bottom 90. And it's getting ugly.

[BSR]

38 minutes ago, sniper said:

It's not just about the gap between the super-rich and everyone else. It's about the gap between the top 10-20% and everyone else, buying up real estate, walling themselves off in towns with no non-wealthy people, being able to float their kids as they take unpaid internships, etc. I maintain that it's markedly harder today for people who are of average ability but reasonably hardworking to get by and/or ahead. I'm  doing okay, but I'm doing okay in a game that is rigged, and more than I care to admit of my financial success was due to being in the right place at the right time.

I get your point, even if I don't necessarily agree.  But can you prove that this greater gap between the top 10-20% and the rest is what causes this explosion of shoplifting? 

[Monarchy79]

On 5/28/2024 at 7:46 AM, SouthOfTheBorder said:

so many things in NYC stores behind locked glass cases.  I had to wait yesterday at CVS for someone to unlock the case for ice cream. 

a friend who works in a retail clothing chain in Manhattan tells of multiple walk-in gangs stealing everything in sight.  Staff is told to stand-down and it happens even with security people there.  I don’t think police bother to come anymore. Not sure if that’s still happening, but it was last year. 

no excuse for any of it.  I do think the root cause is rising income inequality and people thinking there is no way to better their lives. when people can’t meet basic survival needs & lose hope, then everything is on the table.  the people on this forum, including me have no idea what that’s like. San Francisco is ground zero for extreme income inequality and now it’s like a futuristic dystopian movie from 30 yrs ago with driverless cars, gleaming glass towers w extreme wealth and masses of homeless & drug addict zombies at street level.

 

I respectfully disagree with your take on why these crimes are occurring. 
I don’t believe that income equality is the issue. 
 

keep in mind that in the U.S., minimum wage has been at its highest, and many states have provided more than enough benefits to the economically disadvantaged since before the pandemic. Once the pandemic hit, people were issued free money, and full relief from paying rent and utilities, in addition to benefits they may have already gotten. 

People still come to the U.S. from 3rd world countries, just to be our version of “poor”. Yet none of these people are executing flash mod theft rings 

On a larger scale, this nation is plagued with a smear of social degeneracy, and an absolute disregard for the law, or overall decency. 

Until we are more aggressive with holding criminals accountable, this problem will only exacerbate. 
 

 

[Monarchy79]

4 hours ago, Travis69 said:

This run in and grab theft has been going on since the early 80's.  Bloomingdales in Tysons Corner, Va (wealthy suburb) was hit multiple times when a friend worked in the area.  Always the same door and same dept.  Would assume others places were also hit but we didn't have bleached blonde bimbos on the news 24 hours a day hyping everything up and getting the public in an uproar.

I’m from the DC area and love Tyson’s Corner!!! Specifically that Bloomies. 

[Monarchy79]

The cops don’t waste their time with theives that much anymore because they are tied of wasting time making arrests, all for the judges to set the same crooks free.

[SouthOfTheBorder]

11 hours ago, sniper said:

I maintain that it's markedly harder today for people who are of average ability but reasonably hardworking to get by and/or ahead. I'm  doing okay, but I'm doing okay in a game that is rigged, and more than I care to admit of my financial success was due to being in the right place at the right time.

this is correct & defines what is considered the “American Dream” - children are no longer doing better than their parents.  And that’s for the middle class with access to education & other resources.  For the poor, it’s even worse.

We are now at the tail end of a 40 year experiment of “trickle-down” tax policy that has largely shifted vast wealth to the already wealthy - the creation of a super rich class while wages for the middle class & poor have woefully lagged behind.  

All you need to do is look at America’s crumbling infrastructure and increasingly lawlessness among the poor to see the deterioration of the country.  Other rich developed countries do not have these same problems as the US - not even close.  Some of them have similar issues brewing on a much smaller & less visible scale - but none have the vast wealth inequality as compared to the US. 

When people see the system as systemically rigged and lose hope - then all options are on the table.  Really, I’m surprised this has happened sooner than the past couple of years. 

There is little choice but to employ more aggressive policing and hardline policies - otherwise the cities which are the economic drivers in the country become unsustainable, affecting the greater US economy overall. 

Re: the “smash & grab” organized crime wave: where do all those stolen products go ?  the stolen merchandise is resold online to very middle class people looking for a bargain.  Above all - Americans want to buy at lowest possible price no matter where the goods come from.  They love to be bemoan China trade issues but then they flock to Walmart & Amazon buying cheap Chinese produced products.  Moving manufacturing jobs offshore & destruction of American Main streets is the direct result of the American insatiable desire for low priced products (Chinese) sold at mass retailers at the lowest possible price.  This was not hard to predict, yet most don’t connect the dots.

Edited Thursday at 01:02 PM by SouthOfTheBorder

[BSR]

1 hour ago, SouthOfTheBorder said:

this is correct & defines what is considered the “American Dream” - children are no longer doing better than their parents.  And that’s for the middle class with access to education & other resources.  For the poor, it’s even worse.

We are now at the tail end of a 40 year experiment of “trickle-down” tax policy that has largely shifted vast wealth to the already wealthy - the creation of a super rich class while wages for the middle class & poor have woefully lagged behind.  

All you need to do is look at America’s crumbling infrastructure and increasingly lawlessness among the poor to see the deterioration of the country.  Other rich developed countries do not have these same problems as the US - not even close.  Some of them have similar issues brewing on a much smaller & less visible scale - but none have the vast wealth inequality as compared to the US. 

When people see the system as systemically rigged and lose hope - then all options are on the table.  Really, I’m surprised this has happened sooner than the past couple of years. 

There is little choice but to employ more aggressive policing and hardline policies - otherwise the cities which are the economic drivers in the country become unsustainable, affecting the greater US economy overall. 

Interesting comments about wealth inequality, but it's still laughable to blame the wealth gap for the explosion in shoplifting.

If the vast gulf between rich & poor triggered skyrocketing theft, then we would see it all over the country.  Instead, we see it mostly in just a few cities, ones which not coincidentally coddle criminals instead of punishing them.  If your local DA believes that cash bail is racist and that criminals are actually victims, expect your local pharmacy to lock up the shampoo.

Miami's gap between rich and poor is wider than most.  Billionaires and centimillionaires from around the globe own 2nd (3rd? 4th?) homes, $multimillion part-time pads, while so many Miami residents work low-paying service sector jobs.  Where are the flash mobs of thieves, the locked-up Hot Pockets, the lucite cases?  Nope, none of that sh*t, because Miami actually sends thieves to jail.

You obviously have some passionate opinions about wealth inequality.  You should start up a separate thread about it instead of trying to jam a square peg into a round hole.

Edited Thursday at 02:16 PM by BSR
Wording

[pubic_assistance]

13 hours ago, BSR said:

Miami's gap between rich and poor is wider than most.  Billionaires and centimillionaires from around the globe own 2nd (3rd? 4th?) homes, $multimillion part-time pads, while so many Miami residents work low-paying service sector jobs.  Where are the flash mobs of thieves, the locked-up Hot Pockets, the lucite cases?  Nope, none of that sh*t, because Miami actually sends thieves to jail.

[Monarchy79]

When proper punishments for crimes are  implemented, crime decreases. 
 

People are no different than animals. They act based on positive and negative reinforcement.