United Auto Workers strike and how it would affect the economy!

[marylander1940]

This could be the first time in history that a nationwide UAW strike is called simultaneously at General Motors, Ford, and Stellantis.

 

UAW nearing automaker strike as Ford blasts union | Reuters

WWW.REUTERS.COM

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U.S. automakers and union negotiators offered little hope a deal would be reached to avoid a midnight walkout that would be the United Auto Workers' first-ever...

 

[handiacefailure]

will definitely cause a trickle down effect since suppliers will end up being laid off as well, and a lot of them aren't well paid auto workers who would have a big safety net so they'll be spending less and UAW workers will certainly be spending less only having $500 a week strike pay and if the autoworkers stop paying their insurance, all that will be eaten up right there (not sure if the strike fund pays their coba or not or if they are under a union funded plan how that works).   

Totally get them pissed off about not making the temp workers permanent hires at the same rate.   But I don't think the big three will give a forty percent pay raise

Could be good news for toyota though.   Their camry alone sells more cars than all of Chrysler passenger vehicles combined.   You know the increased wages will be passed down to the consumer, making imports seem even more attractive if they don'thave to raise their prices  

[+ augustus]

Ford's profits are down 90% amid supply chain issues and sluggish EV sales and the morons in the UAW think now is the time to demand a 40% wage increase and job security. Mostly the profits are down by the drag of over ten billion in net loss producing EV's, what utter nonsense with these EV's foisted upon the automakers by the greens.   Let them starve, move the plants to right to work States, plenty of workers there that are not greedy.   Yep.  Bankrupt the existing company and come out the other side without a union.  40% pay raise and a 4-day week, yeah sure.  

[EZEtoGRU]

It isn't a nationwide strike at all the Big 3...yet.  The UAW has chosen to strike at only three plants initially(one from each automaker)  One each in Michigan, Ohio, and Missouri.  More facilities will likely be added if negotiations continue without reaching an agreement.

[+ augustus]

The UAW's demands are beyond the pale of reason, without a doubt.  Just move out of Michigan and be done with it.  $75k for a Dodge Ram minimum. Absolutely ridiculous!  The UAW workers are notorious for being entitled.

Edited September 15, 2023 by augustus

[+ augustus]

Michigan has been bleeding jobs for years because of these unions.  $33 an hour for HS diplomas just in wages is not bad in a state with low real estate costs.  It's best that these companies leave this state.  There are more problems to come, like no electricity as they want to shut down the nuclear plants in Michigan and have already shut down one.  Move to a right to work state.  

Edited September 15, 2023 by augustus

[+ augustus]

The UAW wants a 40% wage increase and a 4 day 32 hour work week..............ha ha ha ha ha ha.  Funny.  Stupid, but funny.

[+ augustus]

It is extremely coveted and difficult to get these kinds of union auto jobs in Michigan.  They have great benefits, good pay (for the work they do) and the number of jobs are limited.  There are thousands of applicants, and few people get in.   Don't buy into the lie that these are deprived workers.   The UAW is very corrupt and dozens of the union leaders have been convicted of thievery in the last few years.   BMW, Hyundai, Kia, Honda, Volvo all building and expanding their plants in the South.  The Big 3 will continue to lose market share.   Big 3 automakers have basically ceded from making cars and moved onto SUVs, trucks and now EVs, leaving the manufacturing and selling of cars to the Japanese and Korean automakers, who make better quality cars anyway.

Edited September 15, 2023 by augustus

[+ augustus]

The other detail the media fails to report on is the Union want to protect workers from being fired for "No Show" up for work. Right now any one of them can just refuse to show up for a week, never get fired, then show up and expect to be put back to work. How are you supposed to run a business with employees like that? 

[+ augustus]

Eventually, the remaining auto plants in Detroit will move out of state entirely.  It is the only way for them to survive.  Astounding this has not already occurred.  People cannot afford to pay these skyhigh prices for a product that is subpar compared to Honda, Toyota, Kia, etc.  

[pubic_assistance]

The US can't produce a decent product for a decent price any more.

They should have all been allowed to go bankrupt bank in the early 2000's.

 

[handiacefailure]

20 hours ago, augustus said:

Michigan has been bleeding jobs for years because of these unions.  $33 an hour for HS diplomas just in wages is not bad in a state with low real estate costs.  It's best that these companies leave this state.  There are more problems to come, like no electricity as they want to shut down the nuclear plants in Michigan and have already shut down one.  Move to a right to work state.  

I do understand the complaining about the temporary employees.

asking for a 40% pay raise on a $32 an hour position is absurd considering they get nice profit sharing checks, don't have to pay for health insurance and a company pension and retiree health care.  I'd love to not have to pay into a 401K and have retiree health insurance and had been able to have retired after 30 years.   My main retirement concern is health care costs.   I would gladly work for $32 an hour if I had those benefits and especially making time and half or double time and not having to pay for college 

[+ augustus]

On 9/15/2023 at 1:02 AM, EZEtoGRU said:

It isn't a nationwide strike at all the Big 3...yet.  The UAW has chosen to strike at only three plants initially(one from each automaker)  One each in Michigan, Ohio, and Missouri.  More facilities will likely be added if negotiations continue without reaching an agreement.

More facilities are being added, but not by the UAW.  A plant in Kansas is now being idled because of a parts shortage and Ford will soon begin layoffs.  

[+ augustus]

4 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

The US can't produce a decent product for a decent price any more.

They should have all been allowed to go bankrupt bank in the early 2000's.

 

GM never repaid TARP money of over $10 billion from 2008-2009 AND was allowed to walk away from tens of billions of dollars in bonds, much of which was owned by retirees and small savers.  These kind of handouts to some, but not others, is obscene.  I believe you are right, they should have gone bankrupt in the early 2000's.  

[jeezifonly]

Organized labor will make gains, is my prediction. Same with SAG/WGA. Not everything being asked, but negotiations have to be serious. High-profit industries get away with hoarding money at the top, until they don’t. 

[handiacefailure]

On 9/15/2023 at 1:10 AM, augustus said:

The UAW's demands are beyond the pale of reason, without a doubt.  Just move out of Michigan and be done with it.  $75k for a Dodge Ram minimum. Absolutely ridiculous!  The UAW workers are notorious for being entitled.

I agree.   They are already making a lot more than most people with just a high school diploma make plus they pay nothing for health care and have a great retirement plan.   

I get their complaints about some exec salaries, but those salaries are based on profitability and they also have to have a decent profit to entice shareholders and give them a decent dividend if they want to sell their stock.   People don't buy stocks to keep the workers happy.

Wonder if the big three can hire permanent replacements since there is no contract?    I'm sure plenty of people would be glad to work for $32 an hour with those benefits or even a lot less.   

I'm surprised the big three aren't doing what GM did during the last strike and just stop paying the strikers insurance     

[handiacefailure]

17 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

The US can't produce a decent product for a decent price any more.

They should have all been allowed to go bankrupt bank in the early 2000's.

 

That's why I stick with Toyotas.   Never an issue with them like with my domestic cars, and the Camry is built in the US and has more US parts than any of the former big three.   

They should have allowed Chrysler to fold since they were the smallest of the three and we don't need three automakers in the US.

They should have at least been required to pay back all the money the government fronted them as well as the bondholders.   

I think their profit sharing should be paid out in half stock and they should be forced to hold it for a year minimum before being allowed to sell it.   Would give some incentive to help make a profitable car.  

[curt gregory]

There are a number of unions that I don’t have a lot of patience for - airline pilots and baseball players, to name two.  But I think of unions as being on the front lines for the rest of us in a lot of ways…almost like the way drag queens were for us gays back in the day; willing to stand up for their rights and demand things that ultimately make things better for the rest of us.  
The workers that *really* need unions are the poor folks that work in meatpacking plants, pluck chickens for Perdue, and other dirty, dangerous, repetitive jobs.  I guess Augustus would just have their employers move to right-to-work states, but those states are the same ones that don’t protect workers health and safety.  That’s not a coincidence.  
As for the UAW, I agree that they’re asking for a lot.  But the thing is, they’re not going to get what they’re asking for, and I think an agreement will be reached.  Frankly, if the Senior execs turned down some of the massive pay packages they have gotten, a lot of this problem would go away. 
One final thing: why is it only the union guys who get blasted for their pay rates? FWIW, I want to see real estate developers, hedge fund guys, and the private equity people pay the same tax rates that these UAW guys pay, since these union guys actually *work*for a living, making products that you and I actually use. 
Rant over.  As a native midwesterner who recalls the days when lots of well-paying factory jobs made for stable towns and stable factories, this topic gets me worked up. Thanks for hearing me out.  

[Marc in Calif]

[handiacefailure]

My dad managed a grocery store that he retired from that was a regional chain.   

The employees weren't paid as good as autoworkers but had company paid family health care and didn't have to pay any of the premiums and did get a pension and the pay rate back in the 90s was around $17 an hour for a cashier which is decent money in this part of the country back then and is more than what most Walmart cashiers make now.

Chain folded a couple years after my dad retired and he saw the writing on the wall.   Walmart came into the area and the union workers insisted on big raises and didn't want to pay any of their health insurance premiums when their contract was up and my dad said Walmart would put them out of their business since it was hard to compete with their lower prices and he was right.   

He always had a saying when places went on strike "pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered"   The domestic car industry has a lot of competition now that didn't exist in the 70s.

 

 

[BSR]

On 9/15/2023 at 1:27 PM, augustus said:

Eventually, the remaining auto plants in Detroit will move out of state entirely.  It is the only way for them to survive.  Astounding this has not already occurred.  People cannot afford to pay these skyhigh prices for a product that is subpar compared to Honda, Toyota, Kia, etc.  

I'm not sure of the specifics,  but I think the unionized car companies are handcuffed, i.e., previous contracts legally prevent them from simply picking up & moving to right-to-work states.  Any Michigan labor lawyers on the forum?

[handiacefailure]

13 hours ago, BSR said:

I'm not sure of the specifics,  but I think the unionized car companies are handcuffed, i.e., previous contracts legally prevent them from simply picking up & moving to right-to-work states.  Any Michigan labor lawyers on the forum?

If they aren[t under a contract right now they may be able to move.   Not sure if any contracts in place have agreements requiring plants to remain in a state through a certain date or not.   

 

Even if they move to a right to work state, if it's a former big three plant they would stiill have to use union labor and be under the UAW's contract.   

Might make sense to move out of Michigan though for other reasons like lower taxes (especially if they can get tax abatements), utilities, needing new plants because the old one are obsolete, etc.   

[MikeBiDude]

A Chevy Volt I own has been stuck at the Chevy dealer 8 weeks waiting for some critical electrical part. I'm guessing the strike will add more weeks of wait time!🤯

[Luv2play]

18 hours ago, Marc in Calif said:

Now I see the rationale for a 40 per cent pay raise. I believe that would be phased over the life of the 4 year contract.

[Luv2play]

15 hours ago, handiacefailure said:

My dad managed a grocery store that he retired from that was a regional chain.   

The employees weren't paid as good as autoworkers but had company paid family health care and didn't have to pay any of the premiums and did get a pension and the pay rate back in the 90s was around $17 an hour for a cashier which is decent money in this part of the country back then and is more than what most Walmart cashiers make now.

Chain folded a couple years after my dad retired and he saw the writing on the wall.   Walmart came into the area and the union workers insisted on big raises and didn't want to pay any of their health insurance premiums when their contract was up and my dad said Walmart would put them out of their business since it was hard to compete with their lower prices and he was right.   

He always had a saying when places went on strike "pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered"   The domestic car industry has a lot of competition now that didn't exist in the 70s.

 

 

I bought my first Japanese car in 1975. Their quality and prices were super competitive. It was a Nissan 280Z. I kept that car until 1991 and I sold it to a kid who promptly wrapped it around a fence post.

Later the Koreans came on the scene and the Asian producers expanded into larger sedans, SUVs and trucks. My longest lasting car is one I still have, a 2000 Mercedes. 130,000 miles on her and will probably outlast me.