marylander1940 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 On 7/27/2023 at 5:25 AM, augustus said: This “Me Too” movement has become like the Salem Witch Trials. Witnesses texted their friends that they were going to sleep with Kevin Spacey and bragging about it and then they all followed up with additional dates. Spacey may be a dl deviate but this was all consensual. Sick of nonsense. Bring back statute of limitations already! Calling gay men (drag queens or not) "groomers" is the new version of the "Me Too" movement and unfortunately some have embraced it even in this forum! In the meantime the culture of rape goes in American colleges, the Coast Guard, etc. mike carey, pubic_assistance, MscleLovr and 2 others 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 4 hours ago, jeezifonly said: ...He’s always been this way... I feel a song comin on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MscleLovr Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 On 7/27/2023 at 10:52 PM, Luv2play said: in Canada you can only claim a tax credit on a donation to a Canadian registered charity. I imagine the UK must have the same laws. Not so. Under UK tax law, you can claim a deduction for donations to registered charities in other countries as well as those in the UK. But you do have to file the donations per country (and on enquiry, list the particular charities). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pubic_assistance Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 9 hours ago, marylander1940 said: Calling gay men (drag queens or not) "groomers" is the new version of the "Me Too" movement and unfortunately some have embraced it even in this forum! This is the age-old mistaken arguement about prejudice. Claiming that ALL guys aren't groomers doesn't mean that SOME aren't. Embracing facts isn't prejudice. marylander1940 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike carey Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 5 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said: This is the age-old mistaken arguement about prejudice. Claiming that ALL guys aren't groomers doesn't mean that SOME aren't. Embracing facts isn't prejudice. True, but things need to be kept in proper perspective, and the prejudice argument cuts both ways. The fact [sometimes allegation] of a [likely small] number of gay men being groomers can be prejudicially extended to apply to all gay men, or certain classes of them. {Or separately, as they are not all gay, to drag performers.) The existence of an anecdotally higher number of alleged and convicted groomers among, say priests or youth pastors, never elicits claims that all of them are. They are given the benefit of the doubt that the bad actors are 'bad apples' rather than typical of that class of men. marylander1940 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pubic_assistance Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 17 hours ago, wsc said: I am so sorry you experienced such a thing. My condolences for your pain and my congratulations for your courage in reporting it. Thank you. But. My "pain" was more anger and I didn't consider my reporting the incident to be a matter of "courage" as it was responsibility. It was important to let people know who this predator was. I couldn't un-do my own humiliation, but I could prevent it from happening to others. To withhold information about rape is a selfish act. It's your responsibility to others that should drive your choice to reveal the predator, not some desire for revenge or compensation years and years later after so many others have suffered. wsc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ Italiano Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 20 hours ago, pubic_assistance said: I was raped at a Halloween party many years ago by an older gentleman with some degree of wealth and family social standing. I exposed his misconduct the very next day to everyone who knew him. I fail to understand why anyone would wait more than 24 hours to do the same. As a victim of rape myself I do find these accounts from years past to be completely unbelievable and even more so when fame and money comes into the picture. As sorry as I am for your really horrible experience, I don't think you can box all similar situations in the same way and to declare that all past accounts are unbelievable. Good for you who were able to pick up yr pieces and denounce the bastard, but it is not as easy for everybody. Especially for women, and especially in the past, rape can be a shocking, paralyzing experience, sometimes accompanied by psychological blackmail. I personally know three very close friends who were never able to denounce their rapists, and who have been living with this black cloud throughout their lives. Do I believe ALL #metoo recollections of facts? No, but you can't even say that it is all BS. mike carey, marylander1940, Bokomaru and 2 others 1 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pubic_assistance Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 4 minutes ago, Italiano said: rape can be a shocking, paralyzing experience, Maybe this is "Men are from Mars" moment because there was nothing "paralyzing" about the incident. I was angry and motivated to make sure this person never inflicted this same humiliation on another person. I find it VERY difficult to understand the level of selfishness that would preclude you from discussing your moment of shame while the predator is out violating others. Pure Narcissism . + Italiano 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marylander1940 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) 22 hours ago, pubic_assistance said: I was raped at a Halloween party many years ago by an older gentleman with some degree of wealth and family social standing. I exposed his misconduct the very next day to everyone who knew him. I fail to understand why anyone would wait more than 24 hours to do the same. As a victim of rape myself I do find these accounts from years past to be completely unbelievable and even more so when fame and money comes into the picture. I remember a thread I started about the Playboy Mansion rape scandal and some posters on here said the women working there as waitresses "had it coming". Unfortunately many people won't consider getting raped in a party after allegedly flirting, dancing, drinking or being dressed in a sexy way a "legitimate rape", and unless a woman is dragged to the bushes by a complete stranger it won't be the accepted as legitimate rape to them. That for instance might kept some people from reporting it within 24 hours. If you and others were to report a situation like that to the police I'm sure the lawyer of the of accused would right away start slut shaming. Edited July 31, 2023 by marylander1940 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike carey Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 Moderator's Note Gentlemen, whether claims of sexual assault made late are undermined by the delay is a relevant point to make, but only to the extent that it relates to Spacey's accusers. We've gone as far as we need on the broader subject of why some people delay reporting alleged incidents to the authorities or even discussing them with others. Please limit further discussion to the case in question. MikeBiDude 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopkinsLad Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 7 hours ago, pubic_assistance said: This is the age-old mistaken arguement about prejudice. Claiming that ALL guys aren't groomers doesn't mean that SOME aren't. Embracing facts isn't prejudice. Men are visual creatures, whether straight or gay. Just like older straight men tend to go after women half their age. Same thing for older gay men. Thus isn’t inherently predatory behavior, often times the younger object of older men affections welcome it for monetary benefits. Can we treat adults like adults and stop infantilizing everyone? pubic_assistance and + augustus 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 7 hours ago, pubic_assistance said: ...To withhold information about rape is a selfish act. It's your responsibility to others that should drive your choice to reveal the predator, not some desire for revenge or compensation years and years later after so many others have suffered. I couldn't have said it better. Certainly, there was little, if any, evidence KS's accusers didn't consent (quite the contrary in many cases). When my junior high school gym teacher fondled me (possibly trying to rape me, but I escaped), I reported it to my mother within hours, and to the vice principal the next day. I learned later at high school reunions he'd done it to others, but they'd never reported it. I'd like to think that if others had reported it, he would have been fired. I strongly suspect KS's accusers just saw $$$ in their eyes. Certainly, I can't imagine they had suddenly developed selfless reasons, decades later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 7 hours ago, Italiano said: ...for women, and especially in the past, rape can be a shocking, paralyzing experience... Maybe I missed something, but were any of KS's accusers women? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeezifonly Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 14 hours ago, Unicorn said: I feel a song comin on... First hand story from a Chatsworth High School classmate of KS. The guy had a crush on Kevin, who found out, took him on a couple dates, the second resulting in aggressive and violent sex. So, here, the qualifier of “always” is “since high school” based on the account related to me personally by the victim. I don’t know it all. But having worked with dozens of stage actors over 40 years, his predatory nature was an open secret. Even later, when his name was above title, he would choose the dressing room 4 flights up to maintain privacy of comings and goings of handsome guests. “Getting away with it all” is now over for him. And he’s still a great stage and screen actor, one whose work will be seen less. Too bad. + Lucky 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ augustus Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) 9 hours ago, Italiano said: Especially for women, and especially in the past, rape can be a shocking, paralyzing experience, sometimes accompanied by psychological blackmail. I personally know three very close friends who were never able to denounce their rapists, and who have been living with this black cloud throughout their lives. That is definitely true but due process requires that these incidents be reported quickly so that evidence can be acquired and preserved. This Spacey case is decades old and are just a money grab. People will do anything for money. Edited July 31, 2023 by augustus pubic_assistance 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulgarii Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 21 hours ago, jeezifonly said: The evidence for the crime charged simply didn’t convince the jury of his guilt. In the US, this happens for the rich and famous all the time. Neither his prolific talent nor his predatory history enter into it. He’s always been this way, and might exercise caution going forward, but he’ll not become a different person. Any young man putting himself within Spacey’s reach should remain alert. My thing about his allegations especially concerning the ball grabbing is that we all go through that in gay bars. A lot of us went through the innuendos, and unwarranted touching and date rape with gay men and gay friends. Don't just cancel Kevin and wipe your hands and walk away, what about us regular peasants that still have to deal with that toxic shit? HopkinsLad and pubic_assistance 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, jeezifonly said: First hand story from a Chatsworth High School classmate of KS. The guy had a crush on Kevin, who found out, took him on a couple dates, the second resulting in aggressive and violent sex. So, here, the qualifier of “always” is “since high school” based on the account related to me personally by the victim. I don’t know it all. But having worked with dozens of stage actors over 40 years, his predatory nature was an open secret. Even later, when his name was above title, he would choose the dressing room 4 flights up to maintain privacy of comings and goings of handsome guests. “Getting away with it all” is now over for him. And he’s still a great stage and screen actor, one whose work will be seen less. Too bad. Well, if it's truly the case that you went to Canoga Park High School with KS and were friends with the guy who had a crush on him, and, by coincidence, are also friends with a number of people who worked with KS on set, then, yes, you are in the unique position of actually knowing it all, rather than being a know-it-all. If that's the case, then I apologize. So is it your position that your friend told you that the first time the sexual activity was pleasant, but that the second time, it turned violent, your friend told KS to stop, and he continued anyway? If yes, that changes my perception of KS, but it still doesn't bolster the arguments of his accusers. Addendum: (You said Chatsworth High School, which he only attended for one year in the 12th grade, so I guess one would have to add that to the coincidences. It looks as though he was elected valedictorian there, so you and your friend were apparently in on a secret) Edited July 31, 2023 by Unicorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeezifonly Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 The guy was in HS prod of The Sound of Music - one of the children - and Kevin played the Captain. The name of the school is irrelevant. He did not describe their sexual encounter in any way that could be interpreted as enjoyable. This was in the 1970’s, he was closeted, younger (2 yrs) and smaller than his assailant, and kept it to himself until in therapy many years later. I don’t know how common it is for unreported sexual assaults to have taken place between teens, but it’s probably more than we’d expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 10 minutes ago, jeezifonly said: ...The name of the school is irrelevant. He did not describe their sexual encounter in any way that could be interpreted as enjoyable... Well, you already described the school as Chatsworth High, so one can deduce that KS was a senior (the only year he was there), and your friend was a sophomore. The salient question was whether or not the sophomore said "Stop" or words to that effect, and the encounter continued (presumably, it started as consensual). I've had sex I haven't enjoyed before, but that doesn't define rape. Yes, an encounter which started off consensually can turn into rape if one partner says "Stop! You're hurting me!" and the encounter continues. So far, I haven't heard that this is what happened. If every time after a sexual encounter, one of the partners decides he or she didn't enjoy the encounter, that this could be described as rape, a lot of people would be in trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ Italiano Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 (edited) On 7/31/2023 at 3:10 PM, Unicorn said: Maybe I missed something, but were any of KS's accusers women? Not that I know of, and I totally doubt that. I was answering to someone who said that in general he believes that these accounts from years past are completely unbelievable. Edited August 2, 2023 by Italiano mike carey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormy Posted September 30, 2023 Share Posted September 30, 2023 Kevin Spacey sued by NY massage therapist for sex solicitation WWW.NYDAILYNEWS.COM A New York City massage therapist is reportedly suing actor Kevin Spacey, alleging the 64-year-old actor booked... Gold digging massage therapist has ptsd because Spacey was looking for a Happy 😃 ending? What a joke! pubic_assistance 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloKyle Posted September 30, 2023 Share Posted September 30, 2023 46 minutes ago, Stormy said: Kevin Spacey sued by NY massage therapist for sex solicitation WWW.NYDAILYNEWS.COM A New York City massage therapist is reportedly suing actor Kevin Spacey, alleging the 64-year-old actor booked... Gold digging massage therapist has ptsd because Spacey was looking for a Happy 😃 ending? What a joke! If it's true he could've just booked masseurs off of rentmasseur that would've provided everything he wanted. Weird! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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