What do you pay for extras ?

[DavidShaw]

If your massage therapist were to suggest a happy ending, fellatio, etc., what price would be fair? 
 

i've always gone with $40 for a happy ending, that seems most fair to me. 

[pubic_assistance]

21 hours ago, DavidShaw said:

If your massage therapist were to suggest a happy ending, fellatio, etc., what price would be fair? 
 

i've always gone with $40 for a happy ending, that seems most fair to me. 

A lot depends on where you're located.

I'm in NYC and $ 40 sounds like offering someone a coin as a tip.

My attitude is that anything beyond a hand job is sex and the local escort rates apply.

Edited June 1, 2023 by pubic_assistance
spelling

[DavidShaw]

12 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

A lot depends on where you're located.

I'm in NYC and $ 40 sound like offering someone a coin as a tip.

My attitude is that anything beyond a hand job is sex and the local escort rates apply.

What are those local escort rates? 

[pubic_assistance]

3 minutes ago, DavidShaw said:

What are those local escort rates? 

That depends on the location, now doesn't it ?

[NativeNewYorkGuy]

19 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

A lot depends on where you're located.

I'm in NYC and $ 40 sound like offering someone a coin as a tip.

My attitude is that anything beyond a hand job is sex and the local escort rates apply.

But isn't the recurring theme on this board that not everyone who is looking for something "beyond a hand job" is looking for the same thing? Erotic massage means something different to every client and every masseur. Some would like an erotic massage to end in one-way oral, others would like it to end in mutual oral, and then there are those who want the massage to escalate to topping or bottoming, among other possibilities. Surely you're not saying that a single rate applies to those very different situations?

[EastbayMike]

19 hours ago, DavidShaw said:

If your massage therapist were to suggest a happy ending, fellatio, etc., what price would be fair? 
 

i've always gone with $40 for a happy ending, that seems most fair to me. 

On the rare occasions when this has been "suggested" to me I've always declined. I hate upsells with a passion. 

[pubic_assistance]

18 minutes ago, NativeNewYorkGuy said:

Surely you're not saying that a single rate applies to those very different situations?

I'm saying everything beyond a hand job is sex. And therefore goes into the escort category. So the amount of the extra is the same you would pay an escort for A, B or C sexual favors in the district where the provider is working 

 

[EastbayMike]

8 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

I'm saying everything beyond a hand job is sex. And therefore goes into the escort category. So the amount of the extra is the same you would pay an escort for A, B or C sexual favors in the district where the provider is working 

 

Not necessarily.  If a masseur goes down on me or climbs up on the table and sits on my dick, that's his decision. I'm not paying extra for something the masseur initiates. Maybe a tip but not up to an escort fee. 

Plus if I'm paying for an escort session I want the full escort experience. Not just the last 15 minutes. 

Edited June 1, 2023 by EastbayMike

[pubic_assistance]

50 minutes ago, EastbayMike said:

Not necessarily.  If a masseur goes down on me or climbs up on the table and sits on my dick, that's his decision. I'm not paying extra for something the masseur initiates. Maybe a tip but not up to an escort fee. 

Plus if I'm paying for an escort session I want the full escort experience. Not just the last 15 minutes. 

I get a blow job or a fuck into a session, then my provider is going above and beyond. So the "tip" is similar to what I would pay an escort for a massage and a blow job. It's all relative. But to pay $ 75 for a massage, have the guy ride your cock and let you cum up his ass...and you tip him $20, that's tacky.

[Bluefin]

I assume MT and HE are included in the rate and anything beyond is a YMMV situation and I tip accordingly ($40-$100). 

Edited June 1, 2023 by Bluefin

[Simon Suraci]

@EastbayMike @pubic_assistance I agree with both of you. If the masseur does a lot more than a HE, the client consents, and neither initiates a discussion on fees for that, that’s the masseur’s prerogative to offer a freebie. As always I advocate for discussing everything before the session begins so that there are no surprises when it comes to what you’re paying and what you’re getting. I realize that’s less exciting and that clients are notoriously chicken about discussing their explicit desires, but you’re never disappointed when you just talk about it.

The client is not obligated to pay anything extra, even a tip. However, not so common courtesy makes anything less than a generous tip quite insulting for services performed way above and beyond.

If you’re getting full service for 5 mins, 15 mins or 60 mins, it doesn’t matter. It’s still full service, which means the masseur should be charging comparable full service rates. It’s his business to charge those rates, or give freebies away in the hopes of receiving generous (non-compulsory) tips.

Personally, I would rather hire for escort service and treat it as such so both parties are on the same page and the masseur/escort is being compensated equitably. If there’s a massage element, fine, but the real service on offer is sex, be it oral, anal, fetishes, or other sexual play.

When your masseur goes down on you or sits on your cock, recognize that he’s going way beyond the call of duty. He’s leaving money on the table by not discussing rates beforehand, and you can certainly take advantage of him that way. I wouldn’t expect the masseur to repeat that same level of service if you’re not tipping anything significant to thank him. Then again, it’s up to every masseur to operate his business as he sees fit. 

[adltst]

1 hour ago, EastbayMike said:

On the rare occasions when this has been "suggested" to me I've always declined. I hate upsells with a passion. 

You must have more self-control than I do.  When my dick is hard and someone wants to stroke / suck it, my dick does my thinking for me!

[pubic_assistance]

24 minutes ago, Simon Suraci said:

When your masseur goes down on you or sits on your cock, recognize that he’s going way beyond the call of duty. He’s leaving money on the table by not discussing rates beforehand, and you can certainly take advantage of him that way.

Correct. And saying "that's his decision" I didn't ask for that ( but you followed through with an orgasm ) you're definitely taking advantage if you're not tipping generously with a matching escort rate.  These guys are not suddenly falling for you and excited to ride your old dried up cock. They are there to MAKE MONEY.

[BaronArtz]

I agree with @pubic_assistance.  A masseur in NYC may list 180 - 200 for erotic services but if the session evolves into 'more', either initiated by the masseur or by myself, I pay 300.  By tipping generously, I have no problems getting repeat appointments and the repeat sessions become progressively hotter.  This strategy has worked very well for me.

As one of my friends on this forum mentioned to me privately, having a fun and engaging attitude, showing up on time, having good hygiene and tipping well, as a client, gets you a long way.

In any market, tipping someone 40 because sex was involved is very ... meh.  If I was the masseur on the receiving end of that tip, that client would not get  another appointment.

Edited June 2, 2023 by BaronArtz

[+ Tygerscent]

16 hours ago, NativeNewYorkGuy said:

But isn't the recurring theme on this board that not everyone who is looking for something "beyond a hand job" is looking for the same thing? Erotic massage means something different to every client and every masseur. Some would like an erotic massage to end in one-way oral, others would like it to end in mutual oral, and then there are those who want the massage to escalate to topping or bottoming, among other possibilities. Surely you're not saying that a single rate applies to those very different situations?

Escort rates tend to be an hourly or session rate: paying for their time and not a specific act on a menu~ Paying for a sexual act is prostitution and I would tend to think that would complicate matters for either provider or Client~ Prostitution is illegal in many places… Escorting is not necessarily~

[DavidShaw]

On 6/1/2023 at 4:37 PM, pubic_assistance said:

I get a blow job or a fuck into a session, then my provider is going above and beyond. So the "tip" is similar to what I would pay an escort for a massage and a blow job. It's all relative. But to pay $ 75 for a massage, have the guy ride your cock and let you cum up his ass...and you tip him $20, that's tacky.

If he lets me top him and bust in a bag, then I would go to standard rate of $140 tip. 

[Jamie21]

On 6/1/2023 at 9:56 PM, Simon Suraci said:

clients are notoriously chicken about discussing their explicit desires

Agree. I wish clients would be more comfortable asking for what they want. But I also see it as my job to find out by exploring, which actually makes for a more interesting experience for both and can lead to some unexpected discoveries. 

 

 

[Wolfer]

@Simon Suraci "When your masseur goes down on you or sits on your cock, recognize that he’s going way beyond the call of duty. He’s leaving money on the table by not discussing rates beforehand, and you can certainly take advantage of him that way. I wouldn’t expect the masseur to repeat that same level of service if you’re not tipping anything significant to thank him. Then again, it’s up to every masseur to operate his business as he sees fit." (sorry I have to quote it this way, the editor is messing up).

I disagree, this to me comes across as manipulative... As a client I have a set budget. I think many of the providers earn way more than I do, it's why I hate upsells and also why I talk upfront about all of my expectations (in detail, which is perfectly legal where I hire). I would be very upset if the masseur, on his own accord, escalated things without prior agreement and then demand extra payment afterwards (or give me worse service the second time because I didn't tip). I would actually feel taken advantage of as a client if a masseur were to do that to me. They hold the power because they know clients think with their dicks and it's very hard to say no in the heat of the moment. I also think that's one reason upsells often happen halfway into the session instead of upfront. 

But I have this thought in general in life: don't do things for other people in the hopes they will give you something back. Inevitably this will lead to resentment and disappointment. Holding someone accountable for not returning a gesture or gift you yourself (I'm talking broadly here, not specifically about providers) chose to give unprompted doesn't sit well with me. 

I have to put this into context that where I live there is no tipping custom whatsoever. Waiters don't get tipped, hotel staff don't get tipped etc. Though the tourist industry staff do know how to spot Americans and will suddenly start angling for tips hahaha.

Edited June 3, 2023 by Wolfer

[kingsley88]

My thoughts on this has evolved through the years as I have gotten older (and have a higher income.) 

Back in my 20s, I did triathlons a lot and preferred to get a massage a day or two after competition as a treat for myself. My salary was not 6 figures yet and living in NYC, I definitely budgeted (I could only afford massages that cost less than $120.) Out of all the massages I had back then, only one masseur tried the upsell and I declined since I knew I can finish by using my own hand within 20-30 seconds. Also back then, I was completely happy with just the massage alone, with or without the HE. 

Nowadays I'm older and live more comfortably. If I really liked the masseur's technique and he gave me extras... then I'd generously tip. I'll admit though this rarely happens to me since I can normally finish within 2-3 mins at the end of the massage from the masseur's hand alone.

[+ KensingtonHomo]

On 6/1/2023 at 5:24 PM, pubic_assistance said:

These guys are not suddenly falling for you and excited to ride your old dried up cock. They are there to MAKE MONEY.

LOL, do you assume everyone who hires has an "old dried up cock?" Mine is very youthful and moist. I mean, it's pretty great. 

It's so weird to me when clients assume that other clients are all old dried-up geezers, who can't score sex. 

I hire primarily for convenience. I'm too busy to spend hours on apps looking for a hook-up. Then you get flakey guys. So hiring - whether its for an erotic massage or escort session - just simplifies my life, and I'm willing to pay for the convenience. 

On the initial topic, I do not care for upsells. I find it manipulative. I'd rather everything be stated clearly in advance. If I'm offered an upsell, I tend to turn it down. And if the provider goes beyond on HE, I may stop them to clarify. 

[Simon Suraci]

@Wolfer I agree with you. All the points you make are why I don’t upsell during the session and I don’t take the liberty to initiate any extras during the session that we did not discuss beforehand. This behavior is manipulative, and yes, we know men think with their dicks in the moment. It’s easy to take advantage. That’s why it’s so common.

You’re right to decline any advances. A lot of clients don’t have the willpower or good judgment for this. It keeps both parties from being disappointed or feeling resentment. Good for you.

For the rest of the pack unable or unwilling to discuss openly, or otherwise maintain boundaries, tip your guys! That’s on you for not having the wherewithal, and your masseur isn’t always trying to manipulate you. A lot of men want the extras and expect them, or even demand them. Masseurs are responding to this dynamic. If you get extras without any discussion, and you can’t or won’t discuss, that’s on you. You have choices:

1) take the extras without paying equitably for them, which is a recipe for resentment.

2) tip equitably and generously for something you truly enjoyed

3) grow a pair and ask the right specific questions beforehand to clarify what’s included, and what’s available for additional costs.

Sometimes what you want is already included. When you discuss prior, you can proceed without any anxiety about the costs or feeling obligated to tip, or offending by not tipping. When something is an extra cost, you can calmly evaluate whether you want to pay for it long before the heat of the moment.

Communication, folks. That solves the problem!

I encourage clients to discuss everything they want beforehand. Unfortunately many of them are unwilling to do that for whatever reason. @Jamie21 makes a good point about the exploratory nature of his approach and I like that, but this only works because he is including more in his base pricing than most of the providers in the US do.

For those willing to discuss beforehand, I lay out everything included in my base pricing and quote any other rates based on their specific needs. It’s so much easier when everyone is clear on what to expect. That frees me up to focus on delivering quality service, and frees the client up to focus on enjoying the experience.

Anything I do without discussing beforehand I assume I’m giving away for free (which is rare). Most of the time it’s the other way around where clients are trying to initiate a lot more with me without any discussion. They silently assume they’re entitled to a lot more. I have to stop them and discuss.

This is not an “upsell” because I am not initiating extras or pressuring the client to pay for them. It’s merely a boundary I set in response to the client pressuring me to do more. Unfortunately, so many men don’t respect the word “no”, but when I lay out pricing suddenly everyone falls into line. Sad it has to be that way, but that’s the only effective way I can maintain boundaries. Without it, I get people begging and pleading after I said no, or being aggressive or mean, or mostly just sad and disappointed. Tips and repeats fall off a cliff when clients are upset.

[Simon Suraci]

3 hours ago, KensingtonHomo said:

I hire primarily for convenience.

Excellent point. Hiring is for everyone. It’s a convenient and time saving way to get exactly what you want, with who you want, when you want!

[MuscleDaddyRWC]

4 hours ago, KensingtonHomo said:

I hire primarily for convenience. I'm too busy to spend hours on apps looking for a hook-up.

Yeah, this. 

[pubic_assistance]

6 hours ago, KensingtonHomo said:

I hire primarily for convenience. I'm too busy to spend hours on apps looking for a hook-up. Then you get flakey guys. So hiring - whether its for an erotic massage or escort session - just simplifies my life, and I'm willing to pay for the convenience. 

Same here. My "dried up cock" comment was just a generality to highlight the callousness of the comment made by someone that if a masseur provides sexual services without prior discussion "THAT'S ON HIM". ( As if any masseur is just so hot for you, they just needed to jump on your dick ).  I think plenty of masseurs are good at "reading the room" and if their client is excited, they will get them off with the expectation the client will be thankful and tip generously.  If you don't want to pay more, then you should push them away if they offer to ride the pony.

[+ KensingtonHomo]

2 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

Same here. My "dried up cock" comment was just a generality to highlight the callousness of the comment made by someone that if a masseur provides sexual services without prior discussion "THAT'S ON HIM". ( As if any masseur is just so hot for you, they just needed to jump on your dick ). 

Fair enough.