ATM withdrawal overseas. WISE card

[Alfstoria]

Has anyone used the WISE ATM card ? 
I am always looking for ways to have acces to cash while on my trips. 

I am really bad at keeping track of the cash while I am out of the states.  Like by 10 pm I run out of cash  so I try the ATM then is a big fee or a limited in how much one can withdraw. 
so I friend recommended the Wise card to star buying Euro 

any suggestion?

thanks. 

[maninsoma]

I've never used a WISE ATM card, but looking at their terms it seems like it would be just as expensive to use as many bank's cards since they charge both a fee for every transaction after a fairly low monthly amount AND charge a nominal currency conversion fee. 

My recommendation is to do more homework before you take a trip.  You might already have a bank account with a bank that has fee-free ATM access in certain countries.  For example, if I go to certain bank's ATMs in Mexico I don't pay a fee when using my Bank of America debit card.  That being said, I think BofA used to also offer no currency conversation fee but I think those days are over.  (I haven't traveled internationally since COVID started so I don't know what the current status is.)  If you don't have a bank account with good international currently policies, consider opening an account with a bank that will offer said benefits and then simply put enough money in that account prior to your trip that you won't run out of money.

Also, consider using credit cards whenever possible.  A lot of credit cards now don't charge a currency conversion fee, so it's not only cost effective to use your credit card but it also negates the need to visit ATMs multiple times. 

[Alfstoria]

2 hours ago, maninsoma said:

I've never used a WISE ATM card, but looking at their terms it seems like it would be just as expensive to use as many bank's cards since they charge both a fee for every transaction after a fairly low monthly amount AND charge a nominal currency conversion fee. 

My recommendation is to do more homework before you take a trip.  You might already have a bank account with a bank that has fee-free ATM access in certain countries.  For example, if I go to certain bank's ATMs in Mexico I don't pay a fee when using my Bank of America debit card.  That being said, I think BofA used to also offer no currency conversation fee but I think those days are over.  (I haven't traveled internationally since COVID started so I don't know what the current status is.)  If you don't have a bank account with good international currently policies, consider opening an account with a bank that will offer said benefits and then simply put enough money in that account prior to your trip that you won't run out of money.

Also, consider using credit cards whenever possible.  A lot of credit cards now don't charge a currency conversion fee, so it's not only cost effective to use your credit card but it also negates the need to visit ATMs multiple times. 

Thanks. I will read your recommendation. I  think is wise to skip WISE 😆

I am going to Barcelona but in the past I had issues with the amount/limit of  cash  that an ATM can give you. Ive need more cash in bar to tip the dancers, but  the atm only allowed me $400 ( I will use  that in an hour with a hottie) 🤪

I did open a Capitol 360 checking  acct so when my bank reached a withdrawal limit I used the Capital ATM card 

I  also use Capital one CC that has no international fee. I read that Europe is going cashless to keep SD but the escorts want cash.

I would try one of those money apps like CashApp or Venmo  

Edited September 13, 2022 by Alfstoria

[padel412]

Get a Schwab investor checking account. They reimburse all ATM fees and have no foreign transaction fees and no monthly fees or minimum balance. I believe my daily cash withdrawal limit is 1k USD, not sure whether that can be increased as I've never tried. 

[mike carey]

I'll throw my two cents worth in, and restate some of the ideas that were posted but disappeared in the outage, check your credit cards to see if they have zero foreign exchange fees for purchases, and if you need cash check to see what your bank does. They may have options under which you have no ATM fees. Ask them. I have an HSBC account (Everyday Global) in Australia that offers me foreign currency balances that I can add to when the exchange rate is good, and if I use an ATM in, say the US, any cash withdrawal comes from my USD balance (don't know what if any ATM fee applied). My previous bank used the interbank rate (better than any bureaux de change) for cash withdrawals, but I had to pay the $2 or $3 ATM fee.

[Colton]

I have had a WISE account and card.  I found it an easy way to get a Euro denominated bank account when I needed on.  After that need ended, I didn’t find it that useful.  The Schwab checking account referenced by another poster is what I use instead.  
 

Getting a WISE ATM card wasn’t easy a few years ago for Americans but that may have changed.  I think it was a pilot program or trial back then. 

[+ Lucky]

First Republic Bank has no ATM fees. If another bank, even outside the US, charges you an ATM fee, FR reimburses you.

[Alfstoria]

Thanks, everyone, i will look on the wise one since i want to buy some Euros in advance now the is equal to the $. 

I just checked and 1 euro 1 dollar so that is a bargain. i may not be looking to save in volatile market, i am NOT financial savvy ;(

but if i can buy some Euros while is this rate, i can throw them all at Thermas

i may check financial thread for any tip on buying Euros in advance 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2022 by Alfstoria

[rvwnsd]

A couple of things jumped out at this former retail banker:

• Deposit Insurance: Funds on deposit with Wise are not insured, as are funds on deposit at a bank. If they become insolvent, you have no guarantee that you will receive your funds. Their "Help" section states depositors' funds are "safeguarded" by being deposited into bank accounts that are separate from Wise's corporate accounts. While it could be true that the funds would not be available to creditors in the case of insolvency, there is no guarantee the depositor will receive all of their funds up to the $250K maximum set forth by the FDIC.
• Absence of FDIC Supervision: The FDIC does more than insure deposits. They also ensure that failed institutions are resolved as seamlessly and orderly as possible. In 99% of bank failures, the FDIC appoints a different bank to assume the deposits of the failed institution and the depositors are able to access their money as if nothing happened. Additionally, the FDIC requires institutions to demonstrate they can maintain operations in case of a failure. This is done by conducting an annual takeover simulation, evaluating the results, and making them available for the FDIC to examine. Having participated in these exercises over the course of 10 years I can tell you they are rigorous and one tiny mistake can land you in a vat of boiling oil. (as it should when handling ither people's money)
• Squishy language about regulations: They claim to be regulated by FinCEN (The Financial Crimes Enforcement Network). That's technically incorrect. They are required to register as a money transfer business with the US Department of the Treasury, of which FinCEN is a program. It's OK to make little mistakes in casual conversation, but regulatory language needs to be correct. Makes me wonder what other mistakes they make.

[Colton]

I believe Wise keeps your money at a bank, just not its bank (which specific bank will depend on the currency, in the US it used to be BBVA USA, but may have changed) You would get FDIC insurance through that bank for a dollar account.  For other currencies, it will be banks in other countries.  I believe for Euros its a German bank. 

The previous poster brings up good points, but Wise is a public company listed in London.  Its not a fly-by-night operation. 

Another thing to keep in mind is that having a foreign bank account creates some US tax reporting obligations for US taxpayers.  Best thing is to keep the account below the amount required to register.  Per the IRS website:

Quote

 

A U.S. person, including a citizen, resident, corporation, partnership, limited liability company, trust and estate, must file an FBAR to report:

1. a financial interest in or signature or other authority over at least one financial account located outside the United States if
2. the aggregate value of those foreign financial accounts exceeded $10,000 at any time during the calendar year reported.

 

Foreign banks report accounts to the IRS, so this will eventually catch up with you.  Also, if you expect the Euro to appreciate, you will want to make sure the account has enough room where an appreciated Euro won't push you over the $10k limit.

[rvwnsd]

10 hours ago, Colton said:

I believe Wise keeps your money at a bank, just not its bank (which specific bank will depend on the currency, in the US it used to be BBVA USA, but may have changed) You would get FDIC insurance through that bank for a dollar account.  For other currencies, it will be banks in other countries.  I believe for Euros its a German bank...

What you are referring to is called "pass through" deposit insurance, which is how balances held on prepaid debit cards, services like Venmo and PayPal, and non-bank Fintechs such as Chime are insured. Wise does not work like that. Per their Customer Agreement, 

"...Holding A Balance in your Borderless Account
Wise is not a bank and your Borderless Account is not a bank account.  The specified bank account details that we provide to you in order for you to receive funds from third parties are for accounts held by Wise and its affiliates (and we will credit your Borderless Account, which is held by us, upon receipt of such funds), and are not for a bank account held by you. Value held as a balance in your Borderless Account represents an unsecured claim against Wise and is not insured by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) or any other deposit protection scheme. Wise invests balances held by its customers in permissible investments in accordance with state money transmitter laws. Wise owns the interest or other earnings on these investments, if any. Wise does not use balances held by its customers for operating expenses or other corporate purposes and will not voluntarily make such funds available to its creditors in the event of bankruptcy. For further information on how we look after your money, please visit our Frequently Asked Questions page..."

Searching for "safeguarding" on the website lead to this:

Despite their claim of providing "radical transparency," they don't list the institutions that hold their funds in the US. Not that it matters, as they don't offer pass-through deposit insurance. 

Regarding their being a publicly-traded company, Citibank, Bank of America, and Washington Mutual were all long-standing institutions that were traded on public stock exchanges at the time of their failures. Citi and BofA received "open bank assistance" (i.e. a bailout from the FDIC) to remain open and WaMu was seized and sold to JP Morgan Chase. In all three of these cases, routine business continued. If Wise becomes insolvent there will be no rescue. 

If you are using Wise to maintain a small (i.e. less than $1K) balance while on a trip, they might be worth the risk assuming you are comfortable with their fees and the hassle of maintaining one more bank-like account. I haven't done an analysis, but I suspect their total fees and the fees charged for non-US transactions by a US bank probably end up being the same or similar.

 

[handiacefailure]

Why not just use your ATM card and draw a small amount of Euros when you get to Europe and pay for everything else with plastic?

A lot of credit cards don't charge a fee overseas and you don't need to worry about being out anything like if you lose the cash and it's a better way to keep track of your spending.   In restaurants it's a lot easier to just tap the phone against their reader than to wait around for the waiter to bring you change and in London when riding public transport it is so much easier just tapping the phone against the reader than having to put money on the oyster card and dealing with that and getting a refund on the balance when leaving the UK.

I was in London in July and the only cash I spent was the cover to get into a club and I was in Paris last week and the only cash I spent was to pay a provider.

I also like using a credit card if it's a place I return to because I enter everything in quicken and I can type something in the memo field and when I go back to the city just do a search in quicken to find the name of the restaurant

[Alfstoria]

1 hour ago, handiacefailure said:

Why not just use your ATM card and draw a small amount of Euros when you get to Europe and pay for everything else with plastic?

A lot of credit cards don't charge a fee overseas and you don't need to worry about being out anything like if you lose the cash and it's a better way to keep track of your spending.   In restaurants it's a lot easier to just tap the phone against their reader than to wait around for the waiter to bring you change and in London when riding public transport it is so much easier just tapping the phone against the reader than having to put money on the oyster card and dealing with that and getting a refund on the balance when leaving the UK.

I was in London in July and the only cash I spent was the cover to get into a club and I was in Paris last week and the only cash I spent was to pay a provider.

I also like using a credit card if it's a place I return to because I enter everything in quicken and I can type something in the memo field and when I go back to the city just do a search in quicken to find the name of the restaurant

You answered the question,  the providers. 

Quote

I was in London in July and the only cash I spent was the cover to get into a club and I was in Paris last week and the only cash I spent was to pay a provider.

 

[+ Lucky]

I would still like to have an ATM card with no foreign fees and no fees by the local bank. The First Republic card that I have is a debit card, but it does meet those things...I think.

I guess that I should double check! It's now a Chase bank.

[Kevin Slater]

My Fidelity ATM card charges nothing, reimburses any ATM fees, and gives me the spot exchange rate.  So does the Schwab checking account.

Kevin Slater

[Pd1_jap]

Schwab is the best way to go. Also Schwab is absorbing fidelity.

[Kevin Slater]

1 hour ago, Pd1_jap said:

Also Schwab is absorbing fidelity.

Huh?

Kevin Slater

[+ FrankR]

2 hours ago, Pd1_jap said:

Schwab is the best way to go. Also Schwab is absorbing fidelity.

Are you referring to Schwab acquiring TD Ameritrade?? 🤔

[handiacefailure]

My Huntington ATM reimburses any ATM surcharge, including overseas as soon as the withdrawal posts and doesn't charge a fee for using it overseas.  

[EZEtoGRU]

54 minutes ago, handiacefailure said:

My Huntington ATM reimburses any ATM surcharge, including overseas as soon as the withdrawal posts and doesn't charge a fee for using it overseas.  

Same for my Chase Sapphire Account.  I think any major US bank offers a premium checking account that allows international ATM withdrawals without charging a fee and does the transaction at the prevailing foreign exchange rate at the time.   Easy peasy.   Even if you're only going to Canada and/or Mexico 2-3 times per year, this is much better than changing money at airports or foreign exchange offices.  Obviously just my 2 cents.

[Pd1_jap]

On 7/26/2023 at 5:43 PM, FrankR said:

Are you referring to Schwab acquiring TD Ameritrade?? 🤔

Right, got my green branded trading platforms confused. 🤪

[handiacefailure]

First time I noticed this overseas, but I used an ATM in London a couple weeks ago and like a lot of credit card terminals, it gave me the option to have the charge done in british pounds or $USD.    The exchange rate was absurd.   I chose pounds and the amount charged by my bank on 300 pounds was almost $60US less than what the atm quoted me in $USD.   

[Jim_n_NYC]

9 minutes ago, handiacefailure said:

First time I noticed this overseas, but I used an ATM in London a couple weeks ago and like a lot of credit card terminals, it gave me the option to have the charge done in british pounds or $USD.    The exchange rate was absurd.   I chose pounds and the amount charged by my bank on 300 pounds was almost $60US less than what the atm quoted me in $USD.   

Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC)...always a rip off.

[+ tassojunior]

Has anyone found providers who refuse US dollars? I'd rather give extra to the guy than a bank. 

[mike carey]

3 hours ago, tassojunior said:

Has anyone found providers who refuse US dollars? I'd rather give extra to the guy than a bank. 

I assume you're talking about paying a foreign provider in US dollars rather than their local currency. That's fine if they have a use for the US dollars but if they don't they will end up paying their bank the conversion costs that you saved, and since they would be taking foreign currency (USD) into a bank they would receive the banknote rate of exchange and not the better ATM/electronic conversion rate you would likely get. Bottom line, ask them, and if you want to pay in USD accept the rate they quote. The USD may be a default global currency but for anyone selling goods and services where it is not also the local currency, accepting payment in USD or any foreign currency can be a PITA. (Of course if it's a country where there are 'official' and black market rates they may well prefer USD, but that appears not to be the premise of your question!)

Your friends who seem to operate routinely across CZK, (SKK?), EUR, CHF and USD would, I'm sure, be happy for a client to pay them in USD but others are likely to be happy with only local and neighbouring currencies.

Of course if they were a foreign provider in the US, I'd expect them to take payment (and quote their price) in US dollars.