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She's Arrested For Exposing Her Penis


Lucky
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 A transgender woman in Los Angeles went to the women's section of a spa, apparently to change clothes, and is now facing felony charges for indecent exposure, given that she is a registered sex offender for exposing herself before.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-09-02/indecent-exposure-charges-filed-trans-woman-spa

I am no expert on transgender issues, so I post this to see what others think. My initial reaction is that she should have changed in the penis room, otherwise known as the Men's room. But, she says that she is legally female, so does that make me wrong? Are women expected to just deal with it when a penis comes into their changing room?

In another older thread about the Wi Spa, a poster said that the men's spa was great because no clothes were allowed. So it resembles a bathhouse. Would this change your opinion if you knew that the women frolicked naked on their side as well? (Apparently the arrested woman was not just in the changing room.)

Edited by Lucky
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I’m sensitive to the plight of transgender people, but as @nycmansuggests, who wouldn’t see this coming.  
 

The issue of “indecent exposure” is about what is seen and not about the attitude of the one doing the exposing.  I believe some locales define it with terms including an “intent to arouse,” but this requires investigation and due process.  
 

on this matter, I support the rights to emotional security of a non penis possessing woman.  They should not be expected to go through a requirement to do an instantaneous assessment of another’s intent or to assess whether the nearly naked person in front of them is a predator or not.  To many female victims of sexual trauma, the sight of penis is a triggering event they should not expect to have to deal with in a secure environment.  Maybe the idea of a “penis room” and a “vagina room” is not so far fetched.  
 

I suspect the woman charged in this matter intentionally did this to create a legal flashpoint to litigate this matter and establish precedent?

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1 hour ago, sniper said:

Was the prior conviction a similar thing? Changing where some people think she shouldn't be? The offenders registry should be for actual rapists, not for someone who takes a leak on the side of the road at the wrong time.

Yes. She also has pending charges from 2019 for indecent exposure.She knows what she is doing.

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27 minutes ago, Walker1 said:

So you don't have to have gender reasisgnment surgery, before legally becoming a female? This reminds me of that trangender woman in Canada who went to some immigrant women only salons and wanted them to wax her balls.

I remember that. Her name is Jessica Yaniv. She is definitely problematic...

 

I think the issue here is that some people's logic is that trans women are women, therefore their whole anatomy is female including their penises, therefore it is transphobic to suggest that trans women who haven't had reassignment surgery to remove their female penis can't be nude in front of other women.

It seems that's how the Wi Spa lady thinks. She's basically saying she is a woman, including for legal purposes, which makes her the actual victim here because she was being harassed at the spa just because she is a woman who happens to have a penis.

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41 minutes ago, Walker1 said:

So you don't have to have gender reasisgnment surgery, before legally becoming a female? This reminds me of that trangender woman in Canada who went to some immigrant women only salons and wanted them to wax her balls.

It’s California ;)

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I’d like to think these are outliers, but I just don’t know anymore. Just like I didn’t know until now that one could change gender legally without the surgery. I’m not saying that’s a good or bad thing, I just think there are those out there who could use such a loophole (for lack of a better word) maliciously. 

There have been a few cases in Ireland that have gotten attention over the last few years. In order to change gender, all you need to do is be 18 (16 with guardian consent), complete a Gender Recognition Form, have it witnessed, submit to the State and once registered, you receive a Gender Recognition Certificate which then allows you to change your birth certificate, ID, other government issued paperwork. The fact that no psychiatric evaluation, hormone therapy, surgery, etc. is required has created some problems with those cases that have garnered the headlines. 

In one case, a biological male identifying as a trans woman who had had no hormone therapy or surgery was convicted of repeatedly abusing his partner’s son over the course of the 4 years they were together. The prosecution was able to provide evidence that identifying as trans was a ploy to not be viewed as a danger to the partner’s young son. By virtue of his Gender Recognition Certificate, he has been housed in an all female prison. 

In another case, a young man identifying as a trans woman attempted to kill his mother, and while out on bail for that offense attacked two other women. Remanded to jail, he then submitted his Gender Recognition Form. This is someone the State has found evidence via his own writings, of his desires to rape, maim, and murder women, who now if convicted will be sent to an all female prison. 

Again, I’d like to think these, and others, are outliers. In my opinion, both of these individuals are clearly mentally unbalanced - especially the latter. That either (and others) were able to change gender so easily is an unforeseen result of rushed legislation.  

 

BBD

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  • 3 weeks later...

There is an interesting review in today's NY Times on a book about trans issues:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/07/books/review/trans-helen-joyce.html

It covers so many issues and controversies. I find myself deciding that women who have a penis should not attend all-female saunas. But that I am even thinking about this issue is a revelation!

Recently a Los Angeles times columnist shared that opinion, but described "trans" as being a choice. I think is an acceptance of an innate identity. What I didn't know before reading the review is that most cases of gender dysphoria resolve themselves as a person grows older.

The author of the book also agrees that women with penises should avoid things like female saunas, and she argues credibly, imo.

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6 hours ago, Lucky said:

There is an interesting review in today's NY Times on a book about trans issues:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/07/books/review/trans-helen-joyce.html

It covers so many issues and controversies. I find myself deciding that women who have a penis should not attend all-female saunas. But that I am even thinking about this issue is a revelation!

Recently a Los Angeles times columnist shared that opinion, but described "trans" as being a choice. I think is an acceptance of an innate identity. What I didn't know before reading the review is that most cases of gender dysphoria resolve themselves as a person grows older.

The author of the book also agrees that women with penises should avoid things like female saunas, and she argues credibly, imo.

I don’t disagree, but I believe that a trans individual would offer a credible argument in counterpoint. 

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Seems like this as a policy discussion is beyond full of gray areas and projections.

The given, as I understand, is that there is meant to be a “safe” space for removal of one’s clothing, showering, use of sauna/steam, and adding different clothing. 

In a public men’s bath or changing room for example, policy should restrict entry based on “something”. But exactly what?

Whose presence would pose the largest perceived “threat level” to a nude straight cis man?

A straight cis woman who’s into straight cis men?

Another straight cis man?

A trans woman (only into cis men) who has only done top surgery?

A pre-op trans woman who is pan sexual? Or is perhaps only into trans men and cis women?

A trans man with completed surgeries who is into both men and women?

A homosexual or bisexual cis man who is blind?

Cis straight men assume that the mere sight of their nudity is enough to enflame uncontrollable passion and/or aggression in all of the above.

***So many threats to the world’s largest majority… something MUST be done to spare them damage to their virtue. ***

How much necessary division is “parts possessed” and how much is “presumed desire”?

Based on all of human history, cis women have the most reasonable concerns about their vulnerability with straight (or bi) cis men invading their dressing space.


All the rest of the possible combos of room label, cis/trans, gender identity and sexual attraction would require closing the health club gift shop and juice bar(at least) to make enough changing/showering rooms for everyone to feel safe. 
 

Americans are so fucking weird about nudity. 


 

 

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Of all the beautiful young transgender women in America to focus on, the national media zeroes in on these people.  Unbelievable.

We have a fucking Miss Nevada who's going to Miss USA.

Nicole Maines is a gorgeous young girl and she's an actress now on TV shows.

There are so many trans girls in elementary schools around America who are brilliant, talented, and beautiful.

Yet we have to see this constant theme - the ugly, unpassable, manly trans woman (Caitlyn Jenner without her shitload of money) who make for "sensationalist stories" (Avowed homophobe Rupert Murdoch's New York Post is the King of Smut).

This is all to gin up the Old Geezers who want to complain about something when they head over to the Bingo Room at Shady Pines tonight.  (Then it's chicken a la king with a side of peas and Jello before beddy bye time.)

Edited by Merboy
Clarified that the gorgeous girls were trans girls.
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7 hours ago, jeezifonly said:

Seems like this as a policy discussion is beyond full of gray areas and projections.

The given, as I understand, is that there is meant to be a “safe” space for removal of one’s clothing, showering, use of sauna/steam, and adding different clothing. 

In a public men’s bath or changing room for example, policy should restrict entry based on “something”. But exactly what?

Whose presence would pose the largest perceived “threat level” to a nude straight cis man?

A straight cis woman who’s into straight cis men?

Another straight cis man?

A trans woman (only into cis men) who has only done top surgery?

A pre-op trans woman who is pan sexual? Or is perhaps only into trans men and cis women?

A trans man with completed surgeries who is into both men and women?

A homosexual or bisexual cis man who is blind?

Cis straight men assume that the mere sight of their nudity is enough to enflame uncontrollable passion and/or aggression in all of the above.

***So many threats to the world’s largest majority… something MUST be done to spare them damage to their virtue. ***

How much necessary division is “parts possessed” and how much is “presumed desire”?

Based on all of human history, cis women have the most reasonable concerns about their vulnerability with straight (or bi) cis men invading their dressing space.


All the rest of the possible combos of room label, cis/trans, gender identity and sexual attraction would require closing the health club gift shop and juice bar(at least) to make enough changing/showering rooms for everyone to feel safe. 
 

Americans are so fucking weird about nudity. 


 

 

While I have never been a woman or even played one on TV, I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once.  Based on that experience, I’d suggest that it’s not simply the presence of a penis in a female safe space that makes a woman feel uncomfortable.   It’s probably the presence of a penis in a “discernibly turgid state” that makes them feel uncomfortable - whether covered or uncovered.  Frankly, I doubt that a trans woman would have been discernibly turgid in that environment as I’m making a (potentially false) assumption that hormone treatments were in force as part of a transition that would have likely rendered this particular penis to be less than interesting (at least, to many in this forum). 

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9 hours ago, BnaC said:

While I have never been a woman or even played one on TV, I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once.  Based on that experience, I’d suggest that it’s not simply the presence of a penis in a female safe space that makes a woman feel uncomfortable.   It’s probably the presence of a penis in a “discernibly turgid state” that makes them feel uncomfortable - whether covered or uncovered.  Frankly, I doubt that a trans woman would have been discernibly turgid in that environment as I’m making a (potentially false) assumption that hormone treatments were in force as part of a transition that would have likely rendered this particular penis to be less than interesting (at least, to many in this forum). 

Thx @BnaC your clarification is a good one.

The truth is that this entire issue does not personally impact more than a minuscule sliver of of a slice of the population. Courteous behavior in such spaces is what we all value most. 
All the imagined “threats”stem from cis straight men needing a culture battle to campaign on…

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Notwithstanding my general sympathy to trans issues, it now seems that there’s more to this story with this particular trans woman.  My sympathy is now waning after learning that this is someone who has been doing this for nearly two decades (and contrary to my prior assumption, was  partially erect in the changing area).  

https://www.lawofficer.com/transgender-darren-agee-merager-wi-spa-sex-offender-facing-criminal-charges/

I stand corrected and think this guy may have set trans progress back with his apparent charade.   I have every reason to believe my prior assessment was wrong.  

I’m glad I’m not the Spa staff on this one.  I’m not sure what flexibility they have…

Edited by BnaC
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On 9/27/2021 at 8:51 AM, BnaC said:

While I have never been a woman or even played one on TV, I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once.  Based on that experience, I’d suggest that it’s not simply the presence of a penis in a female safe space that makes a woman feel uncomfortable.   It’s probably the presence of a penis in a “discernibly turgid state” that makes them feel uncomfortable - whether covered or uncovered.  Frankly, I doubt that a trans woman would have been discernibly turgid in that environment as I’m making a (potentially false) assumption that hormone treatments were in force as part of a transition that would have likely rendered this particular penis to be less than interesting (at least, to many in this forum). 

Interesting, you really believe that's true in the United States of America? I don't. I would expect nothing short of a riot if a penis (flaccid or erect) makes an appearance in a women-only space in which women are allowed/expected to be naked, especially if little girls are present.

In some European countries mixed-gender nudity is accepted, so a penis in a women-only space there might be dealt with more calmly.

But in America... I mean, look at this video of that trans woman being kicked out from that L.A. spa: 

crowd riot GIF

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2 hours ago, thedanNYC said:

Interesting, you really believe that's true in the United States of America? I don't. I would expect nothing short of a riot if a penis (flaccid or erect) makes an appearance in a women-only space in which women are allowed/expected to be naked, especially if little girls are present.

In some European countries mixed-gender nudity is accepted, so a penis in a women-only space there might be dealt with more calmly.

But in America... I mean, look at this video of that trans woman being kicked out from that L.A. spa: 

crowd riot GIF

Honestly, I do believe that in the context of it being a trans woman.  As further details indicated, the presence of a partial erection probably caused them to doubt the sincerity of what was in their presence.  

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1 hour ago, BnaC said:

Honestly, I do believe that in the context of it being a trans woman.  As further details indicated, the presence of a partial erection probably caused them to doubt the sincerity of what was in their presence.  

I think you might change your mind if you watch the viral video of the lady who taped herself complaining to staff about the trans woman being in the women's spa. The women's outrage had nothing to do with the trans woman being in any state of arousal.

Here you go. This is America for you: 

This is the full video on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tv/CQgfGijHyrv/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link  

Edited by thedanNYC
adding the link to the video
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