Will you raise your donation amount to make up for the pandemic?

[Rudynate]

I got into a disagreement with someone over this yesterday. As one who hires, I feel it is justified and fair for providers to substantially raise rates to compensate for months of lost business, and that those who hire should be just fine to oblige, as they will be so horny at this point they will give whatever is asked.

 

My friend told me it is a damn good thing I don't run a business, because I'm crazy to think anyone should do such a thing, essentially implying things should be business as usual and nothing ever happened.

 

I've been price gouged by a masseur only once, who hated my company so much that he let me know later that day (but I didn't hate his), that he was willing for a re-meet for two and a half times his standard rate when he came to my neck of the woods again $200 instead of $80. I declined.

 

It depends if they want be right and poor or if they want to relax their standards and make money. I'm a self employed professional and I have, if anything, improved my cash flow by offering "pandemic pricing."

[+ peterhung85]

Believe me, every single business in the country is determined to get a better deal. Businesses hated the past 2 years, when it was hard to find workers. Now they have their pick of desperate unemployed people, while they can threaten to lay off their existing ones.

 

It's how the world works, no matter what business you're in.

I respectfully disagree with you. For instance in my state (Nevada - but I am sure in many others too), the PUA+State money equals to slightly more than the average salary. I have read countless of articles that employers are actually having a hard time hiring for certain (I assume low-paying) positions simply because the federal money is so much better. Why bust your a$$, work full-time and have the potential to be exposed to COVID-19 if you can collect the same amount while staying at home? Of course this extra federal aid only lasts for a few more months as things stand now, but still, I don't see this the way you do.

 

From a business perspective, my hair dresser has raised her rates by 65%. I don't blame her... She hasn't worked for 3 months, she needs to make back the lost income. I see no problem when escorts do that either. Again, I won't be doing it, but I think everyone has the right to set their own prices. At the end of the day, it is supply and demand and if someone sets prices way too high, he will learn from it and adjusts.

Edited May 27, 2020 by peterhung85

[MikeBiDude]

I have read countless of articles that employers are actually having a hard time hiring for certain (I assume low-paying) positions simply because the federal money is so much better. Why bust your a$$, work full-time and have the potential to be exposed to COVID-19 if you can collect the same amount while staying at home?

This is happening to me, and I have PPP money I need to spend on payroll. I’ll be OK within SBA guidelines for the PPP, I’m helping employees who stuck it out with bonuses, etc. I was hoping to build my staff… But it’s difficult to get people off the federal dole and come to work.

[+ GregM]

People are free to raise or lower as they see fit that works for them. I wont be raising, I'm keeping my rates as is.

 

Hugs,

Greg

[handiacefailure]

This is happening to me, and I have PPP money I need to spend on payroll. I’ll be OK within SBA guidelines for the PPP, I’m helping employees who stuck it out with bonuses, etc. I was hoping to build my staff… But it’s difficult to get people off the federal dole and come to work.

 

I don't understand why we are giving an extra $600 a week now for unemployment or giving everyone on SNAP and food stamps the max right now. How are people laid off now suffering more than if they were laid off a year ago, especially the ones on a temporary layoff due to COVID that will have a job to come back to?

 

We're having trouble getting some of our lower paid employees to come back now because they are making more on unemployment. A couple have said they don't want to risk getting covid, yet one of them was on facebook whining about the casino being closed and another lady had photos of her and friends on facebook at a bar the first night they were able to reopen. I don't think these people realize that once the dole runs out how hard it will be to find another job.

[Jarrod_Uncut]

True.

 

Those are the clients who are projecting their own insecurity and self-loathing.

 

Those men will never be happy with what they have because they can't come to grips with transactional sex.

 

I had a regular client like that myself. It would seem like after every session, there was some long drawn out text indicating hard feelings about what we did. But then he’d be contacting me again the following week ??‍♂️

 

Finally after one session, I just told him how I felt...suggesting maybe a sex therapist versus a sex worker would be more appropriate.

 

Surprisingly, we were able to work thru it and meet up a couple more times. Turns out, even though there did seem to be some remorse about the transactional aspect, he actually did enjoy the encounters regardless. I just had to really get into the nitty gritty of what was going on.

 

In his case, he was used to having guys who are into daddy types chasing after him. I think he was thinking I wasn’t into him much because I was getting paid for it, but had to reiterate that it doesn’t mean I can’t be “into” someone because of that. It’s just that I was a provider when he met me, so that’s a default. I think some people put the cart before the horse and mistakenly see things as cause and effect.

[Jarrod_Uncut]

It depends if they want be right and poor or if they want to relax their standards and make money. I'm a self employed professional and I have, if anything, improved my cash flow by offering "pandemic pricing."

 

When it comes to sex work, It won’t matter much though. I’ve experimented with relaxing my standards and still made no money, and I’ve been right about things and it didn’t make much of a difference.

 

I’m experiencing it first hand in a market that wasn’t really great before the pandemic, and isn’t much better during the pandemic. It won’t matter if I lower my rates, because there’s still not going to be any more demand for the trade. The flakes are still doing their dirty work, and the “I can get sex for free” brigade are still making their rounds.

 

What’s even more brazen, I’ve had more than a couple of clients agree to discounts and STILL didn’t go thru with the appointment. So it doesn’t matter much, of a goddamn fuck whether I raise or lower rates...as far as increasing or decreasing biz goes.

 

I’ve had to learn over the years: rates don’t mean shit in the big scheme of things. So ain’t no reason to panic and start changing things. I will get the same amount of clients charging $100, $150 or $250. I’ve seen it before with my own eyes. Clients who used to only pay me $100, started giving me $200-250. Clients who have given me $250/300, have tried to offer me $100 (I don’t get mad, I just brief them on why that’s not sensible for a traveling provider, who’s overheads include ads, hotels, self care/grooming, etc).

 

At the end of the day, we really can’t control the market. I know I can’t. There’s only going to be so much demand for a Black, Gay male escort with only 3 or 4 main sites to advertise online. Therefore, I have to make sure I’m not selling myself short. The less I charge, the less I’m going to have to make ends meet. Contrary to...the less I charge, the more clients I’ll see. That’s generally speculative (and doesn’t work because often all it does, is get the “rarely or never” hired before types in the door 1 time, then they never end up becoming regulars anyway).

At this point in time, the only time I’m willing to do any sessions for under $150, is if a client is in the same BUILDING as me, or if I’m still a little horny after regular paid session...or if it’s a regular and I really need the money. Otherwise, I’ve determined long ago I need PREFERABLY $250-$300 per session to be able to make ends meet. It’s just not worth my time of preparation, driving back and forth, or booking in and out of hotels for anything less.

 

Even being at home, I would occasionally offer lowered rates from Craigslist/backpage clients. But that would become a vicious cycle as once they got used to it, I really had to coax them into paying more (aka, my rent has went up, but biz hasn’t increased...So I can’t charge $100 anymore).

Edited May 29, 2020 by Jarrod_Uncut

[marylander1940]

I'll have to be careful with post pandemic newbies.

 

Before the pandemic, as I mentioned, new kids with no record would go on RM thinking they're worth 300-350. Now that they have massive competition and fewer clients, I'll have even less patience with that type.

 

You and others seem to have an agenda on here. I wonder if this is a self fulfilling prophecy and some saying prices must be lowered will actually make it happen... at any case if I don't like the price I'm told I walk out of the store.

 

Are we still talking about hiring humans?

 

As a client, I am often irritated by the many different restrictions on potential communications between myself and a potential provider. Some say do not call, text only, others say no emails, some say only emails no text. Etc Etc. All the while I grumble, "but wait...don't you want my custom?"

 

Recently I found some very expensive but poorly chosen bespoke computer equipment ( at the time in 2010 $5k per system) in my closet that I was going to put on the curb. My Husband, after making some choice comments on my judgement, persuaded me to try out eBay and sell the parts. I have never even bought anything on ebay.

 

Without going into boring details, after setting what I thought were reasonable very discounted prices based on similar items for sale, I have been bombarded with a torrent of emails which I initially started to dutifully respond. But it is never ending, some people dickering over $1.00 on a $20 component, pointing out the most insignificant variance. On the times I just acquiesced and said fine your price- they didn't even buy it then!

 

Perhaps many/most are well intentioned and just need a little information, but it is overwhelming. The irony is I can't imagine if these emails were over something so personal as companionship or sex! It has been an educational experience for me. I guess I am a bit sheltered in not having this experience before. In my company, people only email me with inquiries that are well thought out and I don't have to go back and forth so often. A call really can weed out the chafe and get to the point. The second computer is going straight to our local tech school...maybe someone there can do something with it, but I won't be taking that one apart.

 

Thanks to all who endure us

[xyz48B]

People are free to raise or lower as they see fit that works for them.

Simple economics.

 

A converse question – Will clients be more willing to pay more for time together after a long duration going without? Escorts can raise their rates if they want but if it’s higher than demand, equilibrium simply won’t happen. Don’t forget the dead weight loss either. Ceteris paribus, a price hike will be bad for escorts.

[+ peterhung85]

@MikeBiDude & @handiacefailure : Thank you gentlemen, exactly my point!

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

Supply and demand are only realistic business notions in the escort world to a point.

 

Then, with a brimming supply, you end up hiring guys- beautiful or not- who fuck you over, act like children, don't show up, take your money, laugh at you and give you a shit experience. This from gents who have few reviews and fantastic images. They're amateurs. Dilettantes.

 

Now, more than ever, truth in multiple, consistent reviews count for everything. Daddy's counts for everything.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Benjamin_Nicholas

[xyz48B]

@Benjamin_Nicholas – that’s the other things that aren’t equal When the client demands something other than what is widely available on the market, the curve shifts. If both curves shift (higher demand price and higher supply price), I suspect we’ll see an overall shift in the market. Markets of any nature rarely just fall after adjusting to a new higher equilibrium. It takes major outside forces to push down equilibrium in a homeostatic market. And given the need and desire for money and sex, the market is rather sticky and inelastic. It takes something a global pandemic for us to even entertain the idea of a shift in the market, and even then we’re skeptical it’ll shift.

[+ DrownedBoy]

Here's my prediction. Right after Covid lifts, rates will stay stable for a month or so. That's people who can't control their libido. Afterwards, there will be more escorts but prices will stop dropping, because too many clients have less income or worry about their jobs in a recession.

 

I never understood why some people can't resist their libido, that they can't just walk away from a deal. That's probably the best thing a mature client can have.

[Jarrod_Uncut]

Here's my prediction. Right after Covid lifts, rates will stay stable for a month or so. That's people who can't control their libido. Afterwards, there will be more escorts but prices will stop dropping, because too many clients have less income or worry about their jobs in a recession.

 

I never understood why some people can't resist their libido, that they can't just walk away from a deal. That's probably the best thing a mature client can have.

 

That does sound like a realistic hypothesis. However, what comes around goes around. I’m not talking about Karma though, but rather “fads”.

 

It’s like, how many more things are going to affect the market that haven’t already? I’ve already said before that at any given moment, a police/race war unrest could ensue...and sure enough, that’s going to “drown out” Corona virus concerns, similar to how Corona virus has “drowned out” race relations and the current political situation. Shit just goes back and forth. If it ain’t one damn thing, it’s another thing. Each time, it’s money lost and never recovered. What am I going to do, not raise my rates ?

 

Remember...Grindr and hookup apps are in my opinion, among the top modern kryptonites to the sex work industry, next to Fosta/Sesta. Both things had predicted to “be the end” of sex work, crashing rates and so forth. So it’s a bit of oversight for people to make predictions.

 

And I’ve said before, WHOM has less income? Yes there are plenty, but there’s also plenty making a KILLING out of this pandemic. The “essential” workers are making big bucks, and there’s lots of clients who lie in that category.

 

My prediction is a little different, but is based on what’s already being observed: there will be LESS escorts, and continually less clients initially. The business will lose its appeal to those seeking to become an escort, due to the associated risks and lack of participation. Would be escorts will resort to more sites like onlyfans/justforfans...which will leave a void in the escort market. In turn, it’ll leave a gateway to those who are dedicated to the industry, and eventually become ever more profitable than before. Rates will remain stable, but the disparity will be large: it’ll either be guys wanting to pay $50, or guys willing to pay $300. It’ll be imperative to tap into the latter, and have the skills to do so.

 

Ultimately, the business will rebound stronger than ever...and I want to be present to receive the bounty. I don’t have an exact time line for things, but I do think we’re in the “eyewall” of the storm right now, so things are at their worst. But...hopefully after about 4 to 6 months, things will improve to that next level.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Jarrod_Uncut

[AJDalton]

I won't be raising my rates, but I also won't be lowering my rates.

[+ Snbrd]

Market factors affect pricing. We don't know what lies ahead. Will the U.S. and other economies experience a severe recession? If portfolios drop precipitously and unemployment rises for a sustained period, clients will have less to spend and more guys may seek to supplement their income. Hotels and airlines can't presently price at sustainability levels. Present predictions about pricing are as reliable as predicting who will be in next year's Super Bowl. If we have one!

[+ DrownedBoy]

Well right now, I just glanced through a few RentMen profiles, and 2 of the people I viewed immediately RMed if I was looking to hire.

 

I never before had that type of response from Chicago providers. I think it's a good economic data point.

 

EDIT Make that 3. Some guy just reached out and offered a 25% discount special. Too bad he has facial hair. Wish more than a handful of Chicago escorts were "Available."

Edited May 30, 2020 by DrownedBoy

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

Well right now, I just glanced through a few RentMen profiles, and 2 of the people I viewed immediately RMed if I was looking to hire.

 

I never before had that type of response from Chicago providers. I think it's a good economic data point.

 

EDIT Make that 3. Some guy just reached out and offered a 25% discount special. Too bad he has facial hair. Wish more than a handful of Chicago escorts were "Available."

 

I mean, you're cruising profiles at 2 am, having quick chats with escorts who are instantly willing to discount.

 

While highly empirical, this is all qualitative: The unique conditions say more about the response you're getting than it being the new statistical norm. It would take a broader spectrum of contact/responses in a wider variety of cities to make me think it's something more.

[+ DrownedBoy]

I mean, you're cruising profiles at 2 am, having quick chats with escorts who are instantly willing to discount.

 

While highly empirical, this is all qualitative: The unique conditions say more about the response you're getting than it being the new statistical norm. It would take a broader spectrum of contact/responses in a wider variety of cities to make me think it's something more.

 

Correct - I'll add that there were much fewer providers online than pre-Covid (none that I'd hire).

 

But I never tried "chatting them up" (nor did I reply to their messages). They just RMd me directly after I looked at their site. I didn't ask for a discount; someone just offered one out of the blue.

 

And to make clear - I never had luck using RM Messenger before, because none of the escorts seemed to use it. However, now escorts are using it to reach out to me, unsolicited. That in itself is a change.

 

And yes Benjamin - that's why this is called a "data point." Keep collecting data.

[Smurof]

I'm now suffering from a case of poster's remorse, and I'm sure some of us have that as well.

 

It is unsettling that COVID cases are on the rise, yet more and more places are opening up with strangle-hold restrictions in place.

 

Just like the Spanish flu of last century, eventually things can get back to normalcy. For the precious few providers that continue to wait things out, kudos. For the extremely few providers testing potential clients temperatures (I really have seen this), good for you. The best thing to come out of this is for guys who paid no attention to sanitation whatsoever, you've been put on notice.

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

But I never tried "chatting them up" (nor did I reply to their messages). They just RMd me directly after I looked at their site. I didn't ask for a discount; someone just offered one out of the blue

 

That's sorta my point.

 

Desperate guys do desperate things (not you, but them). They were on late night, clearly needed cash and were willing to play Let's Make A Deal.

 

That's not a standard, normal data point. It involves extenuating circumstance.

 

When you're getting routine offers- at all hours- for cheaper rates, especially from established, reviewed guys, then it becomes a lot more than just a singular data point. Then, it could be headed towards the new normal.

 

 

... We shall see

[+ DrownedBoy]

Second data point. In morning, looking at ads for a city I might visit. Also got unsolicited RM messages just for browsing.

[cany10011]

Even Pre pandemic, escorts would send unsolicited RM messages. I view it more as marketing...didn’t know this was a new thing.

[xyz48B]

I’ve found literal solicitations were unfruitful. They’d reach out then nothing. That happened to me several times pre-COVID even.

[+ DrownedBoy]

Even Pre pandemic, escorts would send unsolicited RM messages. I view it more as marketing...didn’t know this was a new thing.

 

In 6 years, maybe 3 escorts emailed me via RM, unsolicited. Now I get that many RM messages in single browsing session without even reaching out to anyone. It is a very new thing from my perspective.

 

I'm not hiring now, but it's worth a monograph.