EFFEMINATE VS MASCULINE

[Gymowner]

There are so many straight porn vids where the milquetoast husband watches while an uber masculine stud bangs the bajeesus out of his wife driving her crazy. Never seen a scene where the uber stud is forced to watch his wife get fucked by a pansy.

 

Ask some real stud escorts like colton or Ryan of New York how many times they have been asked to be hired for this scene and I'm sure they would like a dollar for every time!!

[marylander1940]

There are so many straight porn vids where the milquetoast husband watches while an uber masculine stud bangs the bajeesus out of his wife driving her crazy. Never seen a scene where the uber stud is forced to watch his wife get fucked by a pansy.

 

Ask some real stud escorts like colton or Ryan of New York how many times they have been asked to be hired for this scene and I'm sure they would like a dollar for every time!!

 

I think they have been hired waaay more times by gay men like you and me.

[bendable2019]

It's not an ideal.. it's a natural way that they present themselves. Ask any woman and a real man in all his glory drives them wild everytime. I for one totally agree. How it is.

 

Yep

[+ oldNbusted]

Homophobia is not natural, it is taught.

[Gymowner]

So you are implying that liking the naturalness of masculinity is somehow homophobic?

[Walker1]

So you are implying that liking the naturalness of masculinity is somehow homophobic?

What exactly do you mean by naturalness of masculinity?

[+ José Soplanucas]

Homophobia is not natural, it is taught.

 

Do not waste your time explaining that to guys who are manipulating reality according to their own fantasies.

 

It is interesting though, how we can be watching the same porn and seeing completely different things. And then, we project our narrative to everyone else, and normalize it.

[+ Gar1eth]

What exactly do you mean by naturalness of masculinity?

 

There are usually societal standards of both masculinity and femininity. They aren't intrinsically "good". But as opposed to the way some people feel on here, they aren't intrinsically bad either. They also aren't static as they can change over time. Nowadays with the emphasis on self and with media, I'll bet they may be more in flux than in many other eras.

 

But just as the traits themselves are neither good nor bad, liking those traits in a prospective bedmate or partner is not a bad thing either (assuming both partners are of legal age).

 

There can be minor variations in what people feel/think/consider appropriate masculinity/femininity on a societal basis. But unless someone has some problem with emotional perception, I think most average people of a society can at least recognize what the standards are even if they can't consciously recite them. The situation is analogous to the the former definition of porn where the judge may not have been able to define it, but he knew it when he saw it.

 

And then there are those who either consciously or subconsciously have rejected being attracted to the societal standards or who like the standard but have also have broadened what they find attractive outside the standard.

 

Gman

[MrMattBig]

This highlights sometimes the difference between porn and reality and how porn can distort ones view on reality. I've been hired by several couples for this type of scene (cuckold). And while most others as well as myself would probably characterize myself as neutral in terms of masculinity/femininity, they chose me instead of an Uber masculine type of guy.

Part of the reason is that they wanted someone to fuck their wife better than the husband, as well as be sensitive and aware to both of their comfortability levels. And they ultimately felt that that would best achieved with someone who does not embody the stereotypical agressive assertiveness that comes with "masculinity".

 

There are so many straight porn vids where the milquetoast husband watches while an uber masculine stud bangs the bajeesus out of his wife driving her crazy. Never seen a scene where the uber stud is forced to watch his wife get fucked by a pansy.

 

Ask some real stud escorts like colton or Ryan of New York how many times they have been asked to be hired for this scene and I'm sure they would like a dollar for every time!!

[adventurous old guy]

There's a whole lot of projection going on in this thread IMHO. We're off when we try to extrapolate from what I find attractive to what "is" attractive, or even to what "most people" find attractive. There's just too much variation in us, and when it comes to sex what we like seems all very layered and complex.

 

[+ quoththeraven]

So you are implying that liking the naturalness of masculinity is somehow homophobic?

Masculinity is a construct. In Elizabethan England, "masculinity" meant wearing long hair and flamboyant clothing.

 

Also what kind of men are hired for porn is indicative of what the filmmakers think their primary audience (men) likes, not what women actually like. There are plenty of us who like men who don't fit the "he man" mold.

[+ quoththeraven]

There are usually societal standards of both masculinity and femininity. They aren't intrinsically "good". But as opposed to the way some people feel on here, they aren't intrinsically bad either. They also aren't static as they can change over time. Nowadays with the emphasis on self and with media, I'll bet they may be more in flux than in many other eras.

 

But just as the traits themselves are neither good nor bad, liking those traits in a prospective bedmate or partner is not a bad thing either (assuming both partners are of legal age).

 

There can be minor variations in what people feel/think/consider appropriate masculinity/femininity on a societal basis. But unless someone has some problem with emotional perception, I think most average people of a society can at least recognize what the standards are even if they can't consciously recite them. The situation is analogous to the the former definition of porn where the judge may not have been able to define it, but he knew it when he saw it.

 

And then there are those who either consciously or subconsciously have rejected being attracted to the societal standards or who like the standard but have also have broadened what they find attractive outside the standard.

 

Gman

What's intrinsically bad is having a standard, because then natural variance is considered deviant. Kind of like how homosexuality has been viewed as deviant rather than a regularly occurring variation.

[+ Gar1eth]

There are usually societal standards of both masculinity and femininity. They aren't intrinsically "good". But as opposed to the way some people feel on here, they aren't intrinsically bad either. They also aren't static as they can change over time. Nowadays with the emphasis on self and with media, I'll bet they may be more in flux than in many other eras.

 

But just as the traits themselves are neither good nor bad, liking those traits in a prospective bedmate or partner is not a bad thing either (assuming both partners are of legal age).

 

There can be minor variations in what people feel/think/consider appropriate masculinity/femininity on a societal basis. But unless someone has some problem with emotional perception, I think most average people of a society can at least recognize what the standards are even if they can't consciously recite them. The situation is analogous to the the former definition of porn where the judge may not have been able to define it, but he knew it when he saw it.

 

And then there are those who either consciously or subconsciously have rejected being attracted to the societal standards or who like the standard but have also have broadened what they find attractive outside the standard.

 

Gman

What's intrinsically bad is having a standard, because then natural variance is considered deviant. Kind of like how homosexuality has been viewed as deviant rather than a regularly occurring variation.

 

I disagree. Without standards/classifications things can't be measured or assessed.

 

Gman

[studchaser]

Interesting thread. Masculine men will always be in style. Masculinity is far from a construct. If you watch young boys who grow up to be in certain professions you can see the mannerisms forming from an early age without very little input. Alot of mothers will tell you to their own horrors of boysI liking to collect bugs get dirty throw things be loud fight over toys. Come back in a decade and a half those guys are usually football players marines construction workers etc. Alot of porn does show alot of affected masculinity but it is undeniable in real life.

 

Also as far as women go at the heart of things they like alpha males. Many times they will fight it but watch how women act when a firefighter or cop enters the room or a group of marines. I saw three young sheriffs get onto the train once wearing that sheriffs bucket hat and i looked around and saw all the girls whispering to their friends about these greek gods. Women settle often with men that they know are practical as fathers as husbands and not what makes their adrenaline go through the roof.

 

Feminine men deserve their rights and freedoms but they just dont come to the forefront of my brain at all. It is what it is.

[+ WilliamM]

Feminine men deserve their rights and freedoms but they just dont come to the forefront of my brain at all. It is what it is.

 

Yes, we know. That seems to be your only subject

[Walker1]

 

Feminine men deserve their rights and freedoms but they just dont come to the forefront of my brain at all. It is what it is.

Well at least us feminine men deserve our rights and freedoms and not be treated as second class citizens-so I guess that is something.

 

It takes all kinds.

[Gymowner]

walker.... EVERYONE deserves rights and freedoms. my original posting here was about the LEARNED aspect of gays acting feminine. there is no doubt that many men are not as virile or studly acting as other men. and i said that is sort of sweet by nature...who wants to be around a bunch of smelly grunting testosterone all day.. not i! but when i go out and all i hear over and over are groups of gays saying "bitch" and "she" every other word its rather repulsive. they know that isnt a "bitch" or a "she"...so why say it?

[+ José Soplanucas]

If you are so focused on others' "masculinity/femininity", you are probably possibly potentially perhaps maybe worried about your own. My old lady's common sense tells me that.

 

[Walker1]

walker.... EVERYONE deserves rights and freedoms. my original posting here was about the LEARNED aspect of gays acting feminine. there is no doubt that many men are not as virile or studly acting as other men. and i said that is sort of sweet by nature...who wants to be around a bunch of smelly grunting testosterone all day.. not i! but when i go out and all i hear over and over are groups of gays saying "bitch" and "she" every other word its rather repulsive. they know that isnt a "bitch" or a "she"...so why say it?

 

It depends on where someone is at that time in their life. I was always feminine and still am more comfortable with women. I grew up in a place where no one even talked about being gay-though I was mocked and asked to act like men often. At that time we didn't have the net or cable, so not like I knew much other than what others around me believed.

 

I kept my gayness hidden and moved to a more liberal area and came out. It was quite a shock-yeah I am gay and so what-nobody cared. I did go to the gay center which was a help. But being feminine, I just embraced it and became exaggerated or learned as you say and gained a lot of weight and just adopted a drag queen persona. I did get laid a lot, after a lot of rejections, mocked -but my persona acted like a shield. But after a while that was not enough a sit wasn't the real me and I started pulling away and nothing made me happy. That is when I first started hiring, massage for a while and then finally escorts.

 

I finally ended up having my own kids through scientific means and moved back to a smaller town close to family who help out and it feels like have lived multiple lifetimes.

 

It is every easy to judge someone by their behavior or actions. but there is no book to follow on how to be the perfect gay or the perfect man. Who knows what that overly feminized person went through in his life to get to that point? What hells he crossed to come to what he thought was a safe haven only to see his fellow gays sneer and say he is not a real man.

 

I myself prefer studly, handsome, muscular men . That is a preference. I am not going to mock people for actions and behaviors that may be natural or learned to cope with their lives. Being gay or different is not the easiest thing. Straight people marry-it is a celebration, straight people have kids-it is great joy, straight people have sex-great. Us, everything is met with judgement. I have been judged , called selfish, ungodly for having kids on my own-ya know because no mother. Gay marriage is still controversial. Till 15 years or so ago gay sex could get you arrested-thanks to the Supreme court. Even today being gay in many countries can get you punished by death or other forms of punishment.

 

If it does not affect you-why bother? Men are men some of us maybe more feminine, others more masculine-if you are confident and secure in your manhood -it really shouldn't bother you should it???

 

I may be feminine in my "feeling" but I love my dick and so do other men. There is somebody for everybody.

[Gymowner]

First off.. that was a very insightful look at your life. Thank you. I have never mocked or looked down upon anyone if they have a character to themselves. If they pull themselves up, dust themselves off and have the determination to improve themself.

 

I was asking why gay men over dramatize their sexuality. That's all. No looking down. I'm out all the time. Is what it is. I just never understood that we tell the hetero world "it doesnt matter what I do behind closed doors.. judge me for me!" Then these same people do what I said with the "bitch" and "she" thing. That's not feminine... women dont do that. Being effeminate is one thing. Identifying and being with one sex over another is fine. Just that behavior is stupid imho...that's all.

[Gymowner]

And latbear.... um.... probably, possibly, potentially and perhaps? Hahahaha

Edited June 21, 2019 by Gymowner

[MrMattBig]

these same people do what I said with the "bitch" and "she" thing. That's not feminine... women dont do that. Being effeminate is one thing. Identifying and being with one sex over another is fine. Just that behavior is stupid imho...that's all.

 

groups of gays saying "bitch" and "she" every other word its rather repulsive. they know that isnt a "bitch" or a "she"...so why say it?

 

At least for me, the issue is with you using such hatefully connotative language such as "rather repulsive". Its just slang/cultural language. If it doesn't make sense to you or is stupid, that's fine, but no need to feel repulsed by it. Not to say your homophobic, but to me that's the same type of mental processing that leads to homophobia and other prejudices in our culture as a whole.

[Gymowner]

Hmmmm... as you are to me for stating my honest mind.

[Monarchy79]

Great points made in this interesting discussion. I think that a lot of times, people tend to define one’s irritation with “effeminate”, “catty”, extreme behavior as homophobic, but thanks to @gymowner’s comment stating that women don’t even act this way, it finally daunted in me what I would consider it: TOXIC FEMININITY.

 

For me, I realized this once I was in my gym locker room and two gay guys were talking in the language that was just discussed. A lot of “yass bitch”, “gurl”, and other things.

 

And when I think about it, it is somewhat toxic, and here’s why:

1.) just as toxic masculinity places a smear over the true characteristics of what makes a man alluring and respectable, toxic femininity almost disrespects women, and turns the image of femininity into a caricature, almost a mockery.

 

2.) it’s behaviors doesn’t develop or enhance any charater traits at all, just as toxic masculinity doesn’t.

 

3.) toxic femininity creates unrealistic standards of behaviors, and perpetuates stereotypes of gay men, just as toxic masculinity goes for straight men.

 

4.) As a lifestyle where we are supposed to be welcoming and inclusive, toxic femininity is actually polarizing, as it baffles, turns off and offends so many people. It actually works in direct opposition with what society is supposed to be moving towards with LGBTQ Acceptance.

 

5.) It never seems natural or authentic. I truly believe that guys who behave to this extreme aren’t behaving “organically”. It’s entirely too much.

[MrMattBig]

Hmmmm... as you are to me for stating my honest mind.

 

I have no problem with you stating your honest mind. Honesty is how people should communicate under most circumstances. I am simple pointing out how the use of such strong connotative language can affect the impact of how something is interpreted.

 

You say it doesn't make sense and is stupid. I can have a related sentiment in that those who use that language in my experience tend to be accompanied with more drama. Not all the time but just my experiences.

 

To say there is a repulsion to that language, well now that takes the meaning of what you are says to a different place. That's all.