Being taken advantage of...

[boiledeggz]

This whole incident is so wrong on so many levels. The masseur clearly has no idea about professional boundaries or just common human decency. You do not assume anything about what the other person wants, just because it's an "erotic massage". That can mean so many things to different people, and the most decent thing to do is ask before you shove your cock in someone. On top of that, he did it bareback. That indicates to me a sociopathic mentality where that person has little regard for the other person, only their own pleasure. It's truly sick. And not everyone is equipped to deal with a situation like that. Many people have issues of self-esteem where they lack the ability to speak up for themselves. Something that is natural to you and me, like yelling "get the fuck off me" is not so obvious to someone who has chronic low self-esteem.

 

Does that mean they deserve to get taken advantage of? Absolutely not.

 

The time it takes for someone to shove their dick inside you can be a split second, and if they were grinding on you and already close to cumming, the moment they pop inside, they can instantly cum. That is too little time for anyone to react. The client could be cool with the masseur grinding on them, but doesn't mean you can then put your bare cock in. I recall some nutty politician saying that rape cannot happen if a woman doesn't want it to, because her "body would reject it."

Edited August 14, 2018 by boiledeggz

[MaybeMaybeNot]

I could totally see myself freezing and being caught between my fear, my need to be polite, and feeling panicked and unable to form the right words. I am really sorry this happened to you.

[escortrod]

"Victim blaming" . . . is that all you got? Because I think you're selling it in the wrong shop. We're not talking about someone falling asleep. (Although you'd have to be sleeping pretty deeply to not be awakened by anal penetration.) But actually, that's irrelevant, isn't it - it's just troll bait. My advice is that if you're unable to defend yourself from an aroused man, then it's not a good idea to lie down naked in front of one. I'll completely grant you that the masseur was an evil rapist who should be, I don't know, roasted on a spit and then eaten by social justice warriors. But it's still a bad idea to step into a nude massage if you can't handle yourself. I know Blanche Dubois depended on the kindness of strangers. But Blanche Dubois ended up in the nuthouse.

This is pretty much the definition of victim blaming. If you think that’s a reasonable thing to do, have at it, but don’t reject the perfectly appropriate description of what you are doing.

[Kinected]

Let's just call a thing a thing. There's a lot of victim blaming here. All of these same types of comments come up with women say they are raped.

 

Everyone is not going to react to this situation the same way. As mentioned, some clients just want a quick and cheap escort experience dressed up as 'massage'. However, some just want a massage with sexual elements that don't necessarily include penetration on either side. Another layer to this is many of the 'therapists' really are only offering sex with maybe 10 minutes of massage and with the previously mentioned clients looking for just that, it stands to reason where some of the ambiguity of it all leads to situations like the OP.

 

If someone had some sort of prior experience that gives them some aversion to anal interactions, I can definitely understand freezing in that moment and not knowing what to do. Maybe some form of PTSD comes up or a flashback could prevent someone from speaking up. We have to understand that not everyone is going to have the same reaction as we would. We're in a vulnerable position in these situations... on our stomachs, naked, head in a rest and not able to really see anything. Some may think that if he's muscular and strong he could make things worse or that they have no power to say "no, stop" or that they didn't want to have the MT upset with them.

 

The MT didn't have the right to do this. Point blank. The lack of empathy some guys have doesn't even surprise me though.

 

And yeah, sometimes there's mutual attraction between the MT and the client and one thing leads to another and it's ok. But just like masseurs who don't want you to perform oral on them, clients don't always want to have these 'full service' experiences.

 

This is about respecting people's boundaries.

 

Hopefully the OP and others can feel empowered enough from this post to vocalize what they don't want if this happens to them.

[BostonTom]

This is pretty much the definition of victim blaming. If you think that’s a reasonable thing to do, have at it, but don’t reject the perfectly appropriate description of what you are doing.

No, it's not victim blaming. It's victim advice. You seem unable to parse a sentence. But I'm happy to throw you the red ego meat you want - you are SO RIGHT about that HORRIBLE MASSEUR. But the thing is he's SO HORRIBLE - and other masseurs are SO HORRIBLE - that people who "freeze" once they've lain down naked in front of them SHOULD NOT DO THAT. Because they're rapists!!! Rape, rape, it's rape. Rape.

[BostonTom]

Did I mention it's rape? Rape.

[IntuitiveTactile]

it stands to reason where some of the ambiguity of it all leads to situations like the OP.

 

THIS

[escortrod]

No, it's not victim blaming. It's victim advice. You seem unable to parse a sentence. But I'm happy to throw you the red ego meat you want - you are SO RIGHT about that HORRIBLE MASSEUR. But the thing is he's SO HORRIBLE - and other masseurs are SO HORRIBLE - that people who "freeze" once they've lain down naked in front of them SHOULD NOT DO THAT. Because they're rapists!!! Rape, rape, it's rape. Rape.

No doubt your “advice” will be very useful.

[Jasonmathison]

I’ve had a massage experience about 10 years ago, where I felt taken advantage of. The massage part was actually quite nice and when it came time for the erotic ending I was open to performing oral on the masseur. But i was not prepared to have my head held still while he proceeded to basically fuck my face. I can barely breathe, I can’t talk. I can’t push him off. And then he came in my mouth which I definitely didn’t want nor was I expecting. Thankfully it was pretty quick, but it did feel longer. I can definitely understand how one can freeze. Now some people may find this a hot scenario, i didnt. I left feeling ashamed, guilty and nervous for several weeks about STD’s. I’m fine, and I got over it. But still would never see him again or recommend him to anyone.

[BostonTom]

No doubt your “advice” will be very useful.

Good, it's meant to be. I'm quite serious. If you don't have the agency to resist sexual assault, then by NO MEANS should you be frequenting naked gay masseurs. Do not talk yourself into it, do not tell yourself it's up to the masseur to respect your limits - just don't go. Because if you do, it's only a matter of time before you're raped again.

[beachboy]

Good, it's meant to be. I'm quite serious. If you don't have the agency to resist sexual assault, then by NO MEANS should you be frequenting naked gay masseurs. Do not talk yourself into it, do not tell yourself it's up to the masseur to respect your limits - just don't go. Because if you do, it's only a matter of time before you're raped again.

That"s a very jaundiced view of professional providers.

I'm sure the OP will be very careful if he chooses to hire again & will be able to gain advice & recommendations on this site from both experienced clients & respected providers so that such a dreadful situation never occurs again

Personally I am not a particularly well built or physically strong person so could be at risk. However by following advice here after less than stella hires & only hiring a provider I got to know here I have had blissful experiences & shortly hope to do so again.

This forum & it's members will support & guide him as much as he needs.

[BostonTom]

That"s a very jaundiced view of professional providers.

I'm sure the OP will be very careful if he chooses to hire again & will be able to gain advice & recommendations on this site from both experienced clients & respected providers so that such a dreadful situation never occurs again

Personally I am not a particularly well built or physically strong person so could be at risk. However by following advice here after less than stella hires & only hiring a provider I got to know here I have had blissful experiences & shortly hope to do so again.

This forum & it's members will support & guide him as much as he needs.

Jaundiced, or just . . . realistic? I mean, it looks as though several people have chimed in about how they too have been assaulted.

[beachboy]

Oh sure there are rogues in this as in every profession. My point is that there are ways to avoid them & personal recommendations are an invaluable method of doing so.

I hope the OP can recover from his ordeal & find the type of masseur he is looking for.

[+ Mplsgymguy]

Good, it's meant to be. I'm quite serious. If you don't have the agency to resist sexual assault, then by NO MEANS should you be frequenting naked gay masseurs. Do not talk yourself into it, do not tell yourself it's up to the masseur to respect your limits - just don't go. Because if you do, it's only a matter of time before you're raped again.

 

It seems to me that you’re saying that we should be prepared to fight off any masseur because we are, after all, getting naked and the masseur is also naked and may become aroused and not be able to control himself. Hmm. If I answer an ad from someone who offers sensual/erotic nude massage, I think it’s reasonable to assume that I won’t be raped while face down on the table.

[BostonTom]

It seems to me that you’re saying that we should be prepared to fight off any masseur because we are, after all, getting naked and the masseur is also naked and may become aroused and not be able to control himself. Hmm. If I answer an ad from someone who offers sensual/erotic nude massage, I think it’s reasonable to assume that I won’t be raped while face down on the table.

Look, it was one of the other SJWs on the this thread who decided on some other soapbox that this was "rape" (which it's not, btw, not by a long shot, no matter how often the falsehood is repeated). Sigh. I've never seen so many pearls clutched in QUITE so many ways. If you can't find the psychological wherewithal to clench your hole and say "no" when somebody comes knocking at the back door, then no, you have no business putting yourself in that situation. I mean . . . is the pity party later really worth it? Hmmm. To some, maybe it is!

[LivingnLA]

I'm not sure why @BostonTom is so hostile toward the victim of sexual assault / rape. What motivates that hostility? The belittling name-calling is an attempt to distract/divert attention from the fundamental issues of the thread.

 

Human behavior is complex but the science is pretty clear on a couple points: a good massages relaxes a person physically & mentally. That's the whole point and would slow response times. Further, human beings generally "freeze" or "respond slowly" to unexpected/surprising situations/stimuli. Why do you think the military spends so much effort training people to respond in highly specific ways to unexpected/dangerous situations? They have to overcome basic human responses.

 

The OP's explanation clearly describes an interaction with a man who pushed boundaries from the start. Could the OP have been more forceful or careful? Yes, but the criminal activity was initiated and perpetrated by the male "expert" who ran the scene. Has the OP hopefully learned important lessons about personal safety? Hopefully, yes! But, again, that in no way excuses or transfers guilt or blame. The man committed multiple acts of sexual assault and also likely rape.

 

A human being's body is their own. Kissing without permission is sexual harassment. Penetration without permission is sexual assault. Sexual activity without consent is rape. Not using condoms without consent is an additional violation.

 

We as a society will never overcome toxic masculinity and the rampant sexual harassment and assault that occurs every day around the world until we recognize the fundamental truth that a human being's body is their own and does not belong to anyone else.

 

Wrong again, @BostonTom, what the OP described is at a minimum sexual assault and very likely also rape.

 

https://definitions.uslegal.com/r/rape/

 

https://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/rape.html

[+ Mplsgymguy]

Look, it was one of the other SJWs on the this thread who decided on some other soapbox that this was "rape" (which it's not, btw, not by a long shot, no matter how often the falsehood is repeated). Sigh. I've never seen so many pearls clutched in QUITE so many ways. If you can't find the psychological wherewithal to clench your hole and say "no" when somebody comes knocking at the back door, then no, you have no business putting yourself in that situation. I mean . . . is the pity party later really worth it? Hmmm. To some, maybe it is!

 

Wow. No one is clutching any pearls, pal It’s just that you sound like the sort of person who says that a woman should’ve expected to be assaulted because she was wearing a short skirt. And if it’s not “rape,” then what would you call it? The natural progression of two men getting naked?

[escortrod]

Look, it was one of the other SJWs on the this thread who decided on some other soapbox that this was "rape" (which it's not, btw, not by a long shot, no matter how often the falsehood is repeated).

Of course this will vary by jurisdiction, but in the UK at least this could rise to the level of rape:

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/part/1/crossheading/rape

 

"1 Rape

(1)A person (A) commits an offence if—

 

(a)he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis,

 

(b)B does not consent to the penetration, and

 

©A does not reasonably believe that B consents.

 

(2)Whether a belief is reasonable is to be determined having regard to all the circumstances, including any steps A has taken to ascertain whether B consents."

 

Obviously this would hinge on whether the masseur believed that the OP consented and, if so, whether or not that belief was reasonable. The comments in this thread demonstrate that at least some would not consider such a belief to be reasonable in this context. You presumably think otherwise.

[+ Brad in NYC]

Wow. After reading this thread and hearing about multiple people who have had horrific experiences, it’s really making me think. I’m a native New Yorker, so I feel that I have a certain amount of street wisdom, but.....

 

I’ve always tried to be careful screening massage guys. I do read reviews, check threads here, etc. I look for a good massage as opposed to a sexual encounter, so maybe that weeds out some of the darker characters. And, I realize that many here are as interested in the sexual component as they are the massage.

 

Although I’ve had massages that I didn’t think were so great or felt the person wasn’t trained very well, I never felt unsafe. I’ve never been in fear during a massage encounter. I feel horrible for those who have.

 

I wonder if it’s been self conscious that I tend to pick masseurs who are my size or smaller. Is there a part of me thinking (even though I might be wrong) that I could hold my own with ‘this guy’ if something started going fowl?

 

I’m wondering if someone should create a thread where we collectively assemble a ‘how to stay safe’ checklist.

 

I don’t blame anyone who’s been victimized and I also think it makes sense for massage clients to consider that not all these guys are good guys, and could take some steps to avoid or deal with them.

 

This topic has attracted lively conversation and I really appreciate everyone sharing their thoughts.

[marylander1940]

Good, it's meant to be. I'm quite serious. If you don't have the agency to resist sexual assault, then by NO MEANS should you be frequenting naked gay masseurs. Do not talk yourself into it, do not tell yourself it's up to the masseur to respect your limits - just don't go. Because if you do, it's only a matter of time before you're raped again.

 

The reason why some folks ask for an erotic naked massage is to get a HE (and a massage before) without having to pay for an escort and his fee...

 

The masseur raped the client, yet as I said on here before if the OP posts a review the masseur will be flooded with clients asking for BB sex.

[marylander1940]

I’ve had a massage experience about 10 years ago, where I felt taken advantage of. The massage part was actually quite nice and when it came time for the erotic ending I was open to performing oral on the masseur. But i was not prepared to have my head held still while he proceeded to basically fuck my face. I can barely breathe, I can’t talk. I can’t push him off. And then he came in my mouth which I definitely didn’t want nor was I expecting. Thankfully it was pretty quick, but it did feel longer. I can definitely understand how one can freeze. Now some people may find this a hot scenario, i didnt. I left feeling ashamed, guilty and nervous for several weeks about STD’s. I’m fine, and I got over it. But still would never see him again or recommend him to anyone.

 

That would have been another dream come true for folks asking for an erotic massage... usually the masseur is the one who swallows, yet gets paid for a massage, not escort services.

[BostonTom]

I'm sorry, but honestly,the scenario as described here - where the situation is a paid, sensual encounter in which the victim is aware the perpetrator is aroused, the virtual "no" is never spoken - indeed no protest is made - and the victim makes no attempt to end the interaction, and in fact PAYS THE BILL - clearly does meet any legal standard of rape. Sure, we'll just have to agree to disagree about that, I guess - and you can try to bring charges - but good luck with that. Of course, yes, rape is still a possibility in the world of gay massage - people ARE well advised to only frequent masseurs who come recommended, or who are known quantities; and yes, it's probably also wise to engage masseurs who aren't larger and stronger than you are.

[+ Travis69]

Sounds like ALL sexual components, if offered and desired, should be discussed prior to massage. NO more "non-verbal clues". NO more spontaneous acts. Obviously this should be a detailed orchestrated event to protect all parties involved.

[IntuitiveTactile]

Im thinking of drawing up a contract template that can be used

NO more spontaneous

[boiledeggz]

If the entire time during the massage you must be clenching your ass tight and be on guard because rape is a possibility, well why the fuck get a massage at all? That sounds awful. To be on edge from the get-go is the total opposite of what a massage should be.

 

Here's an important fact about sociopaths and assholes who take advantage of people - they are master manipulators and appear to be "nice" and "sane" but will turn on you on a dime. If someone has been lulled into a relaxed mood and not on guard, someone physically stronger can force penetration. Sure you can push them off, but it ALREADY HAPPENED. Worst yet, if the masseur was already close to climax, and they pushed in AT THAT MOMENT, they could cum inside you. You can push them off, but it already happened.

 

It is not unreasonable to expect a safe experience.