JB_Studio38

This may come off as unpopular opinion but: I think we should embrace this change to an extent. I’ve lamented before that, it’s time out for non clients getting free material and nudes. (clients are people who show up and pay, shoppers are those who are just inquiring). These same guys look at the content, but may never end up being a client or worse, pretend to be interested in hiring only to fall thru. So not only getting free nudes, but free use of time and giving nothing in return. Even if they have seen other providers in the past, they shouldn’t have a free pass to “size us up”, metaphorically speaking, before providing any form of payment. Think about how Grindr, Scruff and others have swept online gay hookups by storm, and non of those allow open nude pics. Think of Instagram and the likes where there’s already so much “content” that isn’t nude. Even at a bathhouse, you can’t always walk around naked for all to see. You have to at least make the commitment to approach/get that person back to your bed, or steam room bench, etc. I’m already a step ahead with the website thing, as I been putting my content for pay for awhile. However I can understand nobody wants to be made to feel the “have to” abide by a set of rules, especially when it comes without a survey from the providers using the site. My take may be: they may be needing it as protective measure of sorts. Maybe they have plans to evolve the site into something more compensated based for the providers. And then you have the Rent.Men app and messenger which, technically may come with some restrictions to content. But like I said as the last word in my other thread: people need to be willing to fight for us, and each other. And that’s not physical violence I’m talking. But moreso: contacting credit card companies, contacting Apple, doing regular protests in cities, etc. It has to start somewhere.

Good point, and also just to quote @marylander1940: by no means is Vin’s body not like one of the best out there: but, you don’t just have to be a bodybuilder to see an advantage. Even just having a fit gym body should still catapult someone into where they want to be. I was just talking to a client last night, he was explaining how the regional gays are all super closeted and religious and only want to fuck twink boy types under 25. So: definitely not the market I fall under. So by no means does that mean someone should “get outta the business”. But moreso, get into a market that’s more productive.

Well in my case, I never ask lol. But I think the thing with the bigger markets is; before you get there it’s already plenty of providers who may have regulars or been seen by the client before one gets a chance to. That’s not to say I avoid big markets entirely or don’t meet anyone when I go: but I know it could take longer to find a client, and if visiting only a couple or so days that might not be enough time. Thats why San Diego earlier this year was the first time I had more than 1 client. Previous trips I had 0 or only 1. But when I got to stay for 2-3 weeks: I met up with 4. That’s why I’d see how @Vin_Marco is at advantage by default because: if you can live around those big markets regularly and catch the locals and travelers coming in: you’re set for the right direction. Issue is, not everyone has the stepping stone to be able to set up shop in a major city. I have mixed experiences. Where I live part time is only a few hours from the area. I haven’t been out there now in a couple years. It’s another crowded market with lots of traffic and also expensive overheads so: I tend to only go once in a blue. Not common, not for me at least. But I may could see a couple extra $$$ for travel/hosting. But having been to rural Wisconsin regularly over the years: people don’t have the money out there to pay that much for couple hours. For an overnight, potentially. I think a lot of people would go to Vancouver and Toronto. There’s also Calgary and Edmonton but, I don’t know if anyone personally who’s made it up there.

Are you now descending to using racial slurs to get leverage? Should I just go ahead and report that? Because I can do that too… It’s not the occupation, I’m certainly getting pleased. Just because I talk about an issue, doesn’t imply unhappiness or incompetence. People have to step away from this thinking that someone wanting better treatment, equates to not liking what they do. You see it all the time with teachers, in schools, even companies like manufacturing. Flight attendants just as all. Sex work is the only industry, where people don’t want to fight for us. Hell, we don’t even want to fight for each other. It’s very clear even on here, you guys don’t even acknowledge the issue exist. You sweep it under the rug, try to shame and embarrass, while others devil advocate situations and deny the underlying reasons.

Well perhaps inquire, and see what the response is. Might be the same or different than what you have in mind.

You’re right. I was a contributor and did gas light myself. Next time I’ll just get a deposit, and not 2nd guess myself into believing 🚮 is anything other than 🚮. No matter how much he’s “dreaming of meeting me”. Now, can we just settle this and ✌deuces, please?

Well that goes along with what I mentioned earlier about cities being better or worse depending on: no reason at all. I remember I had a bad trip to SF when “someone“ first got elected back in 2016. The city was in protest, and nobody came out to play. I think I had only one or 2 clients, maybe even one flaked. If that was my first trip, I’d have a bad impression. But having gone prior, I knew it was just a one off thing. Though annoying because I only do that trip once every 2-3 years. My last visit in 2022 was better. Also be aware: just because someone visits a city doesn’t mean it’s solely for appointments. For example, I have to come back to my home market regularly because: my life and relatives are here. If it wasn’t for that, I would have 86’d Kansas City/St. Louis off my travels long time ago. Waiting around for days to get a booking is not my speed at all. When I’m in touring mode, I normally don’t give a city more than a day or 2 to book. If no clients by day 2, at noon: Next ✌

Ah okay, great. Yeah having clients who can host and are regulars can be of benefit. And Palm Springs/Los Angeles and SD are all within a Tank away (though still not cheap at $6 a gallon if that’s what it is out there).

Great list, I started to do the same. Curious about when you say you don’t advertise there: are these regular/former clients you refer to, where you used to advertise? I know all those cities you mentioned are big markets. I’m surprised you didn’t say Miami/Ft. Lauderdale, Chicago, Seattle, or Las Vegas. I know for me, I don’t always seem to get the hits in those bigger cities. But like @Shawn Monroe mentioned, sometimes as a black provider, it matters where I go. After spending 2-3 weeks in San Diego earlier this year, I found Los Angeles to be too overcrowded. Lots of Black providers with big dicks. San Diego was better, but I had to advertise there for a whole week before I got my first client, and then I had 3 back to back. 0 to $1,000 in no time lol. Palm Springs, I tried to go but all the hotels were $200-$400 a night. I started to post up in the nearby casinos, but I was running out of time. I find I do best in; smaller enclave cities that aren’t so frequented. Tucson in Arizona, Santa Fe in New México, Oklahoma (though it’s not as busy like it used to be when I would go years show), Salt Lake City; Boise, Idaho… Even when I lived in Florida: I would skip the usual Miami/Wilton Manors and go for Naples, Sarasota, St. Augustine, even north central Florida. So many people go to the big cities, and only the biggest muscle guys and dicks can make it in those lol.

I get where you’re coming from, I could have suggested a meeting time instead. But I guarantee you: he would have said, “that’s too late for me, let’s plan for another time”. And then not get back to me until 2 years later. Just like he did back in 2021. However, I did give him an approximate arrival expectation when I said: I’m on my way in 15 minutes, and it’s a 50 minute ride to his location. So there was in no way he could have been “stewing with uncertainty” like you implied. On top of that, he was already getting a discount, so to cancel when I’m already in route: was plain and simple: an asshole move. We can nitpick small clues to defend his childish and inconsiderate actions. But all that’s doing is making it seem like I’m responsible for someone’s lack of consideration. And that, I’m not ☝️ If he needed a specific time, he could have suggested that. And like I said: he wasn’t in hurry to do so, until the morning of. So…that’s on him. 100%.

That’s a good point you made, I actually want to go back to that in regards to what a fellow poster mentioned: I don’t think I appropriately addressed this earlier, but I’ll go over it again. I did not leave him stewing in impatience and uncertainty, and I also don’t do that to clients either. I think you misinterpreted the message that was posted. What I did do: is tell him upfront, I can follow back up shortly and provide a time of arrival. As I did not want to do that prematurely and make sure I got the timing right. He was not on my schedule that day. 11:30-1 pm on a Sunday: it’s expected most people are either recovering from the Saturday night out prior, or are doing other things like church, brunch, yard work, catching sales, etc. it’s a Sunday. That’s what people do. However, he had no basis to suddenly assume I would be able to instantly push aside everything I was currently engaged in BEFORE he contacted me. He did not earn that privilege. He never sent me a deposit the day prior, he never even mentioned he wanted to meet on Sunday the night prior, and then he specifically implied he PREFERRED to meet “today” (Sunday), which means he should have been willing to give the necessary time for me to accommodate. Reason why, is because: the day prior he was messaging me on adam4adam, and this is the language he was giving me: Now @Simon Suraci: do you see anywhere in that message that gives a sense of urgency on his part? Nothing. Then the next day I’m getting: So, why all of a sudden I have to stop, drop and roll for him? I had to already lead him to water, and make him drink. All I was doing, is getting him to first text and confirm: I do not set ANY TIMES ON ADAM. Period. That’s not an appointment request. Appointment request doesn’t start until I receive text message. That’s for any website. I don’t think it was accurate to make it seem like I kept him waiting and was indecisive. And I was a bit offended by that, to be honest. No, he hit me up at the last minute on the day of. I already know from experience with a lot of gay men and dealing with sex: they are NEVER available as fast as I want them to be. I know that for a fact. So I’ve learned to just have patience and understanding. Nobody is going to drop their life for me, so…where’s this expectations that I have to do the same? 90% of these clients are never available when I reach out to them, but meanwhile I have to basically had to leave my sick grandmother’s bedside to meet 2 clients years ago. And one even had the nerve to say, “if you’re not here by 10, just cancel”. And this was after I drove from Fort Lauderdale to Tampa. What a fucking bitch of a client now that I look back. So rude. And @BenjaminNicholas is right. Some of that is due to just being a Black gay sex worker. They expect super-hero powers: hard dick, fast arrival, no deposit…because we’re all broke and scammers and need money, stereotypical speaking. And @Monarchy79and @pubic_assistance need to stop spreading that false propaganda making it seem like I’m the reason and fault for everything that I encounter. No, it’s not. I don’t give a fuck how much you don’t like it, don’t want to hear or don’t believe it. I will keep talking about it over, and over, and over, and over again until either one of you say: I understand. I emphasize. I see your point of view and realize it’s NOT YOU, it’s them. The reason why I’m posting all these messages, is to show that these things I talk about are reality, and nobody can gaslight that existence. Sometimes it’s just hard to say: There are some people, some gay men online, in this country: they’re cheap, they waste sex workers time, they don’t respect them. And they are a problem for our business. We need to discuss this and do something about it. Was that so hard?

Again: also only giving you 5 seconds to scan your post too because: your posts towards me are always nasty anyway. We’ve been there before… But you sound foolish because, I simply addressed a statement another provider asked about. #1 you were not being addressed by @BenjaminNicholas and #2 I did not inquire your input in that response either. Now, if you can’t handle a discussion that includes certain factors that contribute to certain behaviors: You can leave too. You are so motivated to say stuff to get me to try and run off. It’s not going to work with me, honey. We already settled long time ago: we will not see eye to eye on certain discussions. And that’s okay…But don’t keep coming around trying to project your opinion about me, where it’s not necessary.

Thanks much. No you weren’t insensitive, just giving your viewpoint. Especially compared to some of the other stuff I’ve had to respond to. At the moment I just sent out cancellation fee request to someone who said he wanted to book me for Thursday 1.5-2 hour session. Claims he never confirmed. Also has: 10 reports, only 2 positive. Then has the audacity to claim he’s been hiring 20 years and never paid a deposit. Why wouldn’t I? 🤦🏾‍♂️ Definitely, I was trying to use it in a way that implied “widespread occurrence” of something. Versus the actual medical definition. But you’re right, it is. With the particular person in the original post: he reached out the day prior, but he didn’t text me to request a time until the following day. He wanted to rush me to hurry up and figure out a time for him, but there was nothing signifying that I was expecting him to meet that day. That’s why I told him, I would return back to him an approximate time. Which I did, but he couldn’t even be patient enough for me to arrive. It’s just very frustrating dealing with so many of these type of people in my area. Like I’ve literally been home from tour for a week, and haven’t had one serious client book. Yet I’ve had 3 people who lied about wanting to book. I don’t even need to have anyone tell me what I need to do, go thru this shit all the time: I want to leave. Leave the state or leave the business. It’s depressing, and I’m not doing anything differently from when I meet reliable clients who don’t flake, don’t argue about deposits, and write nice reviews to my page. These other people don’t read ads, yet claim they been hiring for years. Well how have you been hiring for years, but fail to be able to read an ad? They tell me something they don’t want to do, that’s specifically mentioned FIRST LINE, in my ad. Do they just click my profile and go straight to my number, why would they think that’s a smart thing to do?

By the way: just imagine, what it would be like to have to reside in a market like that. Haven’t been to Montreal so can’t speak on it specifically…but imagine having to experience that all the time. It can do real damage to your biz and patience over time. And it’s easy to be gaslit into believing, you’re not cut out for the biz. I know you spent 3 days there, how far in advance did you post up before arriving? Sometimes it can take advertising for weeks to get the right bookings. That’s why sometimes it can be hard to explain to perspectives in other cities, I’m not there yet. I have to survey the crowd from a distance, before I just up and go someplace.

That’s what I’m hoping and praying on. I’ve also just happened to purchase two vehicles, both in October over the past few years: so that’s definitely a pattern of hope 🤞🏾

First and foremost: RentMen won’t allow that. They will shut that down, real quick. We can’t do photos of texts, or barely have texts in our photos unless it’s a light watermark with something of permission. Part of why I went thru the process of building a website, even something simple and not necessarily professionally built: is because I needed to get my message out there. These websites censor us so much. I almost can’t fault the clients too much because: the websites don’t explain much at all. I have to constantly tell clients: “YES MY AD IS APPEARING IN YOUR CITY BECAUSE I’M ADVERTISING IN ADVANCE OF MY ARRIVAL.” They think it’s as easy as: his ad is up, so he must be here today. Magically. That’s regardless whether I have dates or not. On my website, I can write paragraphs longer than the character count that’s allowed on the ads.

And that’s understandable. There’s some clients who I can genuinely understand having to cancel here and there when needed. I try to extend the same grace, as I may need when I have to cancel things, even unrelated to clients. I even allow one of my clients to fantasy text me, even though he hasn’t booked a session since 2020. But he’s hired me for so many overnights, that he’s on my “lifetime” standby status lol. I wish he’d just work up and re-book again some point. But I can pick up between genuine cancels, and just being passive aggressive. In the 2 cases I mentioned, those were clearly passive aggressive moves. One definitely had no basis to cancel, and the other: couldn’t have just found out at 6:30 in the morning that he couldn’t include my service with his bills. Plus, that’s too early in the morning to be waking me up with bad news. It’s sad because, I really did like that particular guy. He had a nice dick, nice ass, talented mouth, was a good host at his place…everything was fine. But he also took me thru a lot of cancel/book/cancel/cancel book patterns. Then came around with the new boyfriend story AFTER we had #1 just prior agreed on meeting every 2 weeks #2 going to a local resort in the state (and he should have been cut off long time ago, just for that). That goes beyond an understanding escort, to being subjected to emotional labor. I can’t be bothered with someone who lies, can’t keep their word, plays games with me, etc. People wonder why I feel strongly about this topic, but they don’t always know the full story. That’s why I post copy of messages. It’s not to be messy or expose the client or disclose privacy, but when you can actually anonymously see what’s going on: maybe there can be a better understanding.

I posted in San Antonio during Craigslist and m4rn time. It was better at that time. However, most visits were generally starting around $60-$150. At that price, one could stay busy. But when I tried to work up to longer bookings: it just wouldn’t be as busy. So San Antonio was one of my more challenging cities to live in: Though at least people showed up. If they couldn’t afford it, they would just say it. I was doing higher volume, but it got to be a bit much having ins/outs of my place all week. I prefer relaxed, planned ahead bookings. I took a lot of last minute stuff back then, and it just didn’t seem like there was much acceptance to higher rates. And Houston: went for the first time back in May, since 2010. I didn’t plan far enough ahead for a Memorial Day weekend, ended up disappointed. It was great to be in a big real city for a change, but it was just nothing happening on the lines. I gave it two days, and got outta there.

I quickly glanced at all what you wrote, in a 5 second time frame. Because that’s all you’re getting from me at this point. It’s nothing about owning the site or thread, it’s simply me informing you that you have the option to not post or read here if you don’t like it. This thread was not designed to address you, and if you’re not even the type of client I’m referring to: it shouldn’t even apply to you at all. So I don’t understand where your animosity is coming from. You’re inserting your opinion and annoyance where it’s not required. I appreciate wholeheartedly the advice you have given, however if you season it with criticism and abrasive tone: I don’t have to receive it. That’s my choice, just like it’s your choice to leave this particular thread. You can stay on the forum all you want. But what you’re not going to do, is keep coming for me after I told you, I’m not going to agree if you can’t talk to me respectfully ☝️ If you want to stay here and continue arguing, we can do that too. But, that’s contradictory to the message you’re trying to give to me. And I really don’t have time to do all that. I had the thread hidden for a day, to cool things down. Now you just bringing the heat back. At this point, I’m just not going to respond to you anymore. I’ve said what I had to say:

Typical Nordic model…

What days were that? And what makes it any less now than then? You’re not implying that racial discussions constitutes someone needing to feel disconnected, right? I 100% get that last part. I concur. And it also applies to the forum and I also. They can’t change if I feel a certain way about how I’m being treated by clients. Take for example this passive aggressive situation with a client the other day. Now mind you, last month he “bailed” on an appointment even after sending me a deposit, because I was expecting him at the hour he wanted to meet. But then he told me, “mid September” he would be available again. But now he’s singing a whole other tune: (mind you I wasn’t referring to another client’s appointment, it was just a service appointment that I could have easily rescheduled.) And I know I’m being more proactive than what’s typically expected escorts to do: but I try to be so, follow back up, agree to a time etc. But instead of just being upfront that he doesn’t want to do it, he strings me along, makes up excuses, etc. So clearly he’s not reliable so, I’ll take the advice and just stop engaging. And I’ll add another point: I can understand if I was working in a sales job that involved soliciting/cold calling new clients. In those situations, you have to really have a thick skin and patience, and that’s why I left “sales” jobs back in 2009 and never looked back. I even tried it again after a couple years break, and ended up quitting again within a couple months, and sticking with escorting. However, these guys are contacting and initiating with me. In both situations including the original post where I put the guy on blast: they contacted me first. I was minding my own business not expecting a penny of their money, until they started harassing me and then flaking out. THAT is why I got mad and THAT is why I put them both on blast. At this point, the only welcome that’s being worn out: is yours in this thread. So you can go ahead and escort yourself out. And while the discussion of therapy is being thrown around: let me share some tips with you: you don’t have to insert yourself here if you don’t like the topic. I didn’t invite you to respond, if it’s not something you want to do. I never quoted your name or messaged you to respond. I don’t even know who you are, why are you even discussing what I’ve been doing for years? It shouldn’t even matter. Focus on controlling what you can control, which is not coming here trying to disparage me…and that’s one less argument you have to hear about. It’ll benefit you AND me. And that goes for anybody. It’s a million other threads to respond and read. You don’t have to throw shade on my discussion, which is doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to better the situation and only serving to ignore and minimize the issue. So please, leave. It’s nothing else to talk about ☮️ ✌

I thought it had a particular reference to hiring male providers, but it doesn’t say. Also when it say “on going investigation”, it almost sound like something may have happened or been going on in the area to initiate that.

The other thing too: right now is just a challenging time to be starting into the biz. Even though nobody talks about it much here, there’s other forums out there where sex workers have been lamenting almost daily about how slow it’s been. Idk about Canadian economy but, down here it’s a jungle. Despite everyone still seemingly doing well out in public: the sex work and other niche industries aren’t. I just had a friend in San Diego send me this (but at least it’s only 10 cents extra for premium. In some places, it’s more like 50 to even $1.00 extra) And then, all my favorite businesses are charging more for their stuff, yet certain clients be trying to get me to work for less. Or, not a dollar more. Like WTF is that? It’s a slap in the face. Companies are taking more of what I earn from clients, yet sex workers are expected to be okay to see clients for less money, all the while having fewer clients. Make it make sense 🤷🏾‍♂️ On top of that, you have an influx of new and traveling sex workers in markets that don’t even be paying that well in the first place. Just like I said before about Kansas City/St. Louis: lots of providers, few actually paying. The only reason I stay advertising is because, I’m already established. I can still get the bookings, and ask what I like because I have the reviews and profile to command it. I also do genuinely enjoy the work. Just not so much the shoplifters. At the same time, soon as I get a full time place: I’m definitely looking at some other opportunities…

Patience grasshopper… 2 months is hardly long of a time. I probably waited 2 years before seeing my first review, and for awhile even after it still took some time. probably better to keep your profile and just update it, versus getting a new one. You want to stay consistent. Also try to feel the person out, before asking for a review. The last minute wham bam, thankyou sir, might not be into reviews. But someone you planned ahead with may be moreso. I also don’t ask for it in person, as I don’t want to corner anyone. Better to let it seem “suggested” but highly appreciated.

Good grief, that’s got to be annoying for sure. I’m pretty much contending with the same thing, in my area. The flakes ❄️ seem to come in 3s when you need them the least 🤦🏾‍♂️ Never been to Canada “officially”, but I have heard Montreal is more French and Toronto more “New Yorkish” I guess? That said, clients ask me often what’s my best and worst cities. I always reply: there are non. A City that was great and fully booked on 1 trip, can be dead on the next trip. However I can say: there are some cities I just can’t stand, because the inquiries are usually unreliable or just as you mentioned. For example, in my home market I often have to deal with shit like this: no matter how professional and consistent to following up with them, they always have an excuse. One person even sent me a deposit last month, but we never got to meet because he was too limited on time. Yet he’s been contacting me for MONTHS trying to plan a booking, but always flakes off. It’s the same thing I was discussing in my “epidemic” thread. I’m trying to take the advice of my fellows and just ignore them, when they come with the non sense. And then people want to talk about someone needing therapy. No. what we need is more people willing to stand up and hit the picket 🪧 lines like all these other industries are doing, and demand better. No need to ostracize your fellow worker in another city, who may be dealing with a rough patch.