Drained Empty

Kevin Spacey.
 
And we know how horrible he is off screen too.

There's this video for a yet unlaunched black men site for those of you who like interracial action:
 
https://www.gayforit.eu/video/408578/Oil-Massage-rimming
 
And I can't believe no one has posted the infamous Preston oil massage:
 
https://www.gayforit.eu/video/342922/Preston-Massage

Or, in other words, how white guys treat Asian guys at Korean spas in the States. But I doubt that's xenophobia.
 
Back on topic, Kyoto is beautiful!

This is a true story.
 
I really get turned on by the thought of an encounter at a public restroom. But I'm not super hung and usually do a quick piss and zip.
 
So I was recently at this corporate retreat with many other executives (I'm the youngest at my company). It was one of those secluded resorts in the middle of a forest.
 
We had been there for a few days already and always ended the night at the resort bar. On the final night, I was a little buzzed from dinner. I went to the bar but didn't really feel like drinking. I did need to take a piss though so I went to the nearby restroom.
 
I ended up at the urinal next to one of the cute Latino staffers (I could tell he worked there because he had a uniform on). We both were there longer than a normal piss would be. And we gave each other glances.
 
His coworker came in and they started chatting so I zipped up. I couldn't shake the feeling so I sat outside on the coach. The coworker exited but the guy hadn't. I waited another minute or two and the guy still hadn't come out yet.
 
So I went back in to see where he was. Unfortunately he was at the mirror checking out his teeth. So I was bummed out but went into the stall because I didn't want to look like a creep.
 
Then I realized he moved back to urinals. I peeked out of the stall and he was stroking his dick. I motioned him over and we started stroking.
 
My building was just one over so I told him to meet me at my room. I took the outside path and he took the hallway. I sucked his 7" cock to completion in my room. He was young -- maybe 21 or 22 -- and had braces (which why he was checking out his teeth). We decided it was best that he not suck me off lol. I wish it wasn't the last night.

Scratching another off the list.
 
On his onlyfans page, Kobe Rafael/MuscleJockBoy writes "Love my white boys and typically not interested Latinos or other races."
 
In another entry he writes how he has "a high sex drive and wants to fuck whiteboys as many time a day I can."
 
He later describes having sex with celebrities, a Trumper, and even says he let his building manager "pump a PrEP load in him" since he can't pay the rent. Maybe his massage/escort business isn't so lucrative.
 
This guy operates in fantasy (including a history of posting pics that aren't his) so I take all of these entries with a grain of salt. Most videos are faceless and some are definitely pulled from Tumblr.
 
He has different skin tones in what he claims to be his. Okay, that might be due to lighting and color correction. But how about the different builds (ranging from very lean to very muscular)? And the tattoos (which he has in some -- claiming to be tatted up -- but his profile shows none).
 
He's explicitly stated he's not into asian or black so it's a hard pass. Seems his onlyfucks are white. But none of his profile pics or vids are genuine so it doesn't seem anyone is missing out.

I'm a member at Burke Williams Santa Monica and every visit there is at least one super hot guy there.
 
Yesterday was no exception: a beautiful tan and toned guy who was very hung, and a dancer from Sweden I struck up a conversation with.
 
Oh, not to mention the four-way jerk fest in the steam room. But that's only happened once before. It's usually more miss than hit, but I've had a few hot sessions.
 
Maybe we should try to meet up sometime.

I am an astute observer of life and human behavior -- it's actually part of what I do for a living.
 
Walker 1, I greatly respect the art of drag. At the risk of sounding cliche, one of my good friends is a successful drag queen. He -- and I'm not trying to offend by using that pronoun (as you see from previous posts I'm super sensitive when it comes to offending) -- has a super hot boyfriend. It's just not for me. No judgment there.
 
Likewise, going to a circuit party (whether it be in Palm Springs or Thailand) is not for me, regardless of it's racial make-up. Because honestly I wouldn't "pass" there either -- too many muscled, shirtless party boys. Not for me.
 
For lack of a better word, I'm very str8-acting. My gay friends joke that I don't remotely "ping." Sure, I act (or I should say am) that way I don't want to be gay bashed. But also, it's truly my personality -- masculine, non-flamboyant. Now that doesn't mean I'm toxic or homophobic. But it also doesn't mean I'm a bump on a log when I go out. Or a top lol.
 
I will admit rejection wrecks me. It literally pains me when someone blocks me on a dating app (I never reach out first btw). It upsets me when guys walk out on me in steamroom. I assume it's because of my looks or my race. It usually is, because they won't walk out on a say, older heavy bald white guy.
 
Those who reject have the power. That's why I ask a masseur if they are okay with Asian clients. 98 percent of them are, but I don't want to be rejected. The very first time I hired a provider, I of course checked with him. He said enthusiastically yes, but he kinda gave me "the look" (and after years of interactions you know what "the look" is) so gave him his $300 (with a tip ... I know, it's me not trying to offend, again) and sent him home early. The second (and last time) I saw a provider, he seemed to be into me. Afterwards, I jokingly asked him about his lasting erection and he said he injected Trimix. I took this to me he did not find me attractive, was forced to have an erection and interact with me, and immediately felt very rejected.
 
If a guy (usually multiple) get up and leave from a steamroom or sauna, I will apologize and avoid them (and the rejection) for the rest of the night. Sure it sucks. Sometimes I end up sitting in the bathroom because there's nowhere else to go. Or I just concede a room and leave. And yes, I absolutely can and do keep track and remember for future visits. But I'd rather not go in and get the reputation as a creeper Asian or a guy ruining things for others.
 
I could never be an actor or model. The rejection would drive me to suicide. Again, that doesn't mean I lock myself in the house and work from my basement. I'm very senior and good at what I do, but I made sure of that super early in my career to avoid any professional rejection.
 
Simply put, I don't like rejection and consequently, losing. I believe the way our society is and through observation, Asians are on the losing end versus the white elites. These elites are the tastemakers, the guys who others gravitate to. So of course when they write "No Asians," that power gap is reinforced.
 
BoiledEggz is probably going to jump in here and bemoan the fact that I'm so weak. But I'm not. I fought that fight. I've spent my entire adult life seeing "No Asians," getting walked out on, being told all guys like me are undersirable, weak, ugly. I'm just tired of fighting that fight. As I've written previously, I takes so much energy just to "pass" nowadays anyway because we're already fighting an uphill battle against stereotypes and guys who ruin it for us.
 
To frame it in the greater thread, that is the power of discrimination. Sure, we can call those who discriminate as awful people, but they still hold the power. And when these people are the elites, it just makes the fight so much harder.

Wow, you really love this band.
 
Glad you can find positive messaging in their music -- I mean ultimately it's part of their branding.
 
I know they (and K-pop) are hot right now but in a few years they'll probably go the way of Justin Bieber.
 
FWIW, I know BTS have many fangirls like you but most of the guys in Weho would not find any of them remotely attractive. They would definitely fall into "Asian Asians" category rather than Azns.

From my experience, YMMV with all three.
 
Anthony talked my ear off. Was subjected to hearing about his entire acting career, about his cats, etc. Only at the very end did it get remotely sensual, and it was pretty prefunctory. That being said, he is a nice guy, good masseur, clean place (at least massage room) and handsome and hung. I guess I just wasn't his type.
 
On the opposite end Phil is super quiet. I know other posters have written he has offered much more with them "every time." Maybe if you're hung like a horse. I am not. Probably wasn't his type either.
 
Speaking of hung like a horse, there's Rob. One of the worst experiences of my life. Deep massage if that's what you're looking for. He talked my ear off and had zero sensuality. I really must not have been his type.
 
Good luck.

Pretty sure that's Tagalog and filmed in the Philippines.

Thank you Sync and Sean Y for sharing and validating with what I've been trying to share for months.
 
BoilesEggz, as usual, we differ on opinion. But thank you for sharing yours as well.
 
Ironically, we live in the same area, have been to some of the same bars/clubs/spas what not, and have drastically different experiences.
 
Let me take a step back. Among the major minority groups, there's a phenomenon unique to Asians (as the group with the most recent immigration push). There's what we somewhat jokingly refer to as "Asians" versus "Asian Asians." For semantics (and ease of reading) I'll refer to the former as "Azns." Ironically, Azns use that term to differentiate themselves from Asian Asians. Let me explain:
 
Most Asians in America are either first or second generation. All minorities assimilate to a degree; that's often shaped by where you grow up. Simply, someone who grows up in Chinatown will probably be less assimilated than someone in say, Palo Alto. Or San Gabriel Valley (another Chinese enclave) than Santa Monica.
 
I'm not passing judgment on how assimilated (or as some would say, whitewashed) each person is. Because that's based on their surroundings and society and media. Maybe one's parents intentionally wanted you to "fit in" so they send you to soccer with the white kids instead if Chinese school.
 
The result is the Azns -- Asians who want to (and believe they do) fit in with white culture. In the gay world, the Azns may have exclusively white friends. They work out. They tan. They dress and style their hair a certain way to fit the gay standard of beauty and desirability. That standard of beauty is white men, so it's natural they desire them. They even call themselves Azn because they don't identify as Asian (or more commonly, they leave the race section on their dating/hook-up profiles blank).
 
BoiledEggz would say these are the guys who need validation -- but if all they know is whiteness, you can't blame them for wanting to trying to fit in -- even if it's a square peg in a round hole. Or a yellow person in a white world.
 
Then there are the "Asian Asians," typically among the newest immigrants, who might not be so assimilated. I don't want to generalize but they seem to be the other group BoiledEggz refers to. He calls them smart and savvy. Others might say they're unable or unwilling to assimilate. That's why they date other Asians.
 
I don't know very many people in this second group. Definitely not any of my Asian female friends, who are all fairly well assimilated, and I'd say 85 percent are married to or dating white men. Celeste Ng penned an op-ed eariler this week denouncing Asian men for criticizing these Asian women for dating white men.
 
I don't feel BoiledEggz is criticizing these Asian women's gay male counterparts (Asian men who seek/date white men) but is certainly critical. I have had militant Asian guys attack and threaten bodily harm on me for stating that I liked black and white men. I'll post the screengrabs when I can upload them.
 
To summarize, gay Asians truly are in a terrible predicament. Many go after guys who aren't into them, and their desperation only feeds into that. If one white guy likes them, it might be because of fetishism. Some -- the Azns -- go to great lengths to fit in, changing their looks (hair/eye color), working out to become hot, in hopes of being the "exception" white men desire.
 
And whether or not they succeed, many whites will always look see them for what they are -- not white -- so there's this internal self-loathing that is created. They bemoan the fact they can never fit in (I'll admit I suffer from this -- not because I want to be white -- but because I want to fit in).
 
On top of that, Asians will hate on each other -- either because they see each other as the competition, or they resent their Asian brothers for being too deferential to whites.
 
That's my experience at least. Btw, I have lived in Weho and SF and I would say these Asian couples BoiledEggz boasts about are the rare exception. I do, however get regular stink eye from other Asians when I go out because the reasons above.
 
Basically, it's a lose-lose for us all.

I am an astute observer of life and human behavior -- it's actually part of what I do for a living.
 
Walker 1, I greatly respect the art of drag. At the risk of sounding cliche, one of my good friends is a successful drag queen. He -- and I'm not trying to offend by using that pronoun (as you see from previous posts I'm super sensitive when it comes to offending) -- has a super hot boyfriend. It's just not for me. No judgment there.
 
Likewise, going to a circuit party (whether it be in Palm Springs or Thailand) is not for me, regardless of it's racial make-up. Because honestly I wouldn't "pass" there either -- too many muscled, shirtless party boys. Not for me.
 
For lack of a better word, I'm very str8-acting. My gay friends joke that I don't remotely "ping." Sure, I act (or I should say am) that way I don't want to be gay bashed. But also, it's truly my personality -- masculine, non-flamboyant. Now that doesn't mean I'm toxic or homophobic. But it also doesn't mean I'm a bump on a log when I go out. Or a top lol.
 
I will admit rejection wrecks me. It literally pains me when someone blocks me on a dating app (I never reach out first btw). It upsets me when guys walk out on me in steamroom. I assume it's because of my looks or my race. It usually is, because they won't walk out on a say, older heavy bald white guy.
 
Those who reject have the power. That's why I ask a masseur if they are okay with Asian clients. 98 percent of them are, but I don't want to be rejected. The very first time I hired a provider, I of course checked with him. He said enthusiastically yes, but he kinda gave me "the look" (and after years of interactions you know what "the look" is) so gave him his $300 (with a tip ... I know, it's me not trying to offend, again) and sent him home early. The second (and last time) I saw a provider, he seemed to be into me. Afterwards, I jokingly asked him about his lasting erection and he said he injected Trimix. I took this to me he did not find me attractive, was forced to have an erection and interact with me, and immediately felt very rejected.
 
If a guy (usually multiple) get up and leave from a steamroom or sauna, I will apologize and avoid them (and the rejection) for the rest of the night. Sure it sucks. Sometimes I end up sitting in the bathroom because there's nowhere else to go. Or I just concede a room and leave. And yes, I absolutely can and do keep track and remember for future visits. But I'd rather not go in and get the reputation as a creeper Asian or a guy ruining things for others.
 
I could never be an actor or model. The rejection would drive me to suicide. Again, that doesn't mean I lock myself in the house and work from my basement. I'm very senior and good at what I do, but I made sure of that super early in my career to avoid any professional rejection.
 
Simply put, I don't like rejection and consequently, losing. I believe the way our society is and through observation, Asians are on the losing end versus the white elites. These elites are the tastemakers, the guys who others gravitate to. So of course when they write "No Asians," that power gap is reinforced.
 
BoiledEggz is probably going to jump in here and bemoan the fact that I'm so weak. But I'm not. I fought that fight. I've spent my entire adult life seeing "No Asians," getting walked out on, being told all guys like me are undersirable, weak, ugly. I'm just tired of fighting that fight. As I've written previously, I takes so much energy just to "pass" nowadays anyway because we're already fighting an uphill battle against stereotypes and guys who ruin it for us.
 
To frame it in the greater thread, that is the power of discrimination. Sure, we can call those who discriminate as awful people, but they still hold the power. And when these people are the elites, it just makes the fight so much harder.

I am an astute observer of life and human behavior -- it's actually part of what I do for a living.
 
Walker 1, I greatly respect the art of drag. At the risk of sounding cliche, one of my good friends is a successful drag queen. He -- and I'm not trying to offend by using that pronoun (as you see from previous posts I'm super sensitive when it comes to offending) -- has a super hot boyfriend. It's just not for me. No judgment there.
 
Likewise, going to a circuit party (whether it be in Palm Springs or Thailand) is not for me, regardless of it's racial make-up. Because honestly I wouldn't "pass" there either -- too many muscled, shirtless party boys. Not for me.
 
For lack of a better word, I'm very str8-acting. My gay friends joke that I don't remotely "ping." Sure, I act (or I should say am) that way I don't want to be gay bashed. But also, it's truly my personality -- masculine, non-flamboyant. Now that doesn't mean I'm toxic or homophobic. But it also doesn't mean I'm a bump on a log when I go out. Or a top lol.
 
I will admit rejection wrecks me. It literally pains me when someone blocks me on a dating app (I never reach out first btw). It upsets me when guys walk out on me in steamroom. I assume it's because of my looks or my race. It usually is, because they won't walk out on a say, older heavy bald white guy.
 
Those who reject have the power. That's why I ask a masseur if they are okay with Asian clients. 98 percent of them are, but I don't want to be rejected. The very first time I hired a provider, I of course checked with him. He said enthusiastically yes, but he kinda gave me "the look" (and after years of interactions you know what "the look" is) so gave him his $300 (with a tip ... I know, it's me not trying to offend, again) and sent him home early. The second (and last time) I saw a provider, he seemed to be into me. Afterwards, I jokingly asked him about his lasting erection and he said he injected Trimix. I took this to me he did not find me attractive, was forced to have an erection and interact with me, and immediately felt very rejected.
 
If a guy (usually multiple) get up and leave from a steamroom or sauna, I will apologize and avoid them (and the rejection) for the rest of the night. Sure it sucks. Sometimes I end up sitting in the bathroom because there's nowhere else to go. Or I just concede a room and leave. And yes, I absolutely can and do keep track and remember for future visits. But I'd rather not go in and get the reputation as a creeper Asian or a guy ruining things for others.
 
I could never be an actor or model. The rejection would drive me to suicide. Again, that doesn't mean I lock myself in the house and work from my basement. I'm very senior and good at what I do, but I made sure of that super early in my career to avoid any professional rejection.
 
Simply put, I don't like rejection and consequently, losing. I believe the way our society is and through observation, Asians are on the losing end versus the white elites. These elites are the tastemakers, the guys who others gravitate to. So of course when they write "No Asians," that power gap is reinforced.
 
BoiledEggz is probably going to jump in here and bemoan the fact that I'm so weak. But I'm not. I fought that fight. I've spent my entire adult life seeing "No Asians," getting walked out on, being told all guys like me are undersirable, weak, ugly. I'm just tired of fighting that fight. As I've written previously, I takes so much energy just to "pass" nowadays anyway because we're already fighting an uphill battle against stereotypes and guys who ruin it for us.
 
To frame it in the greater thread, that is the power of discrimination. Sure, we can call those who discriminate as awful people, but they still hold the power. And when these people are the elites, it just makes the fight so much harder.

Thank you Sync and Sean Y for sharing and validating with what I've been trying to share for months.
 
BoilesEggz, as usual, we differ on opinion. But thank you for sharing yours as well.
 
Ironically, we live in the same area, have been to some of the same bars/clubs/spas what not, and have drastically different experiences.
 
Let me take a step back. Among the major minority groups, there's a phenomenon unique to Asians (as the group with the most recent immigration push). There's what we somewhat jokingly refer to as "Asians" versus "Asian Asians." For semantics (and ease of reading) I'll refer to the former as "Azns." Ironically, Azns use that term to differentiate themselves from Asian Asians. Let me explain:
 
Most Asians in America are either first or second generation. All minorities assimilate to a degree; that's often shaped by where you grow up. Simply, someone who grows up in Chinatown will probably be less assimilated than someone in say, Palo Alto. Or San Gabriel Valley (another Chinese enclave) than Santa Monica.
 
I'm not passing judgment on how assimilated (or as some would say, whitewashed) each person is. Because that's based on their surroundings and society and media. Maybe one's parents intentionally wanted you to "fit in" so they send you to soccer with the white kids instead if Chinese school.
 
The result is the Azns -- Asians who want to (and believe they do) fit in with white culture. In the gay world, the Azns may have exclusively white friends. They work out. They tan. They dress and style their hair a certain way to fit the gay standard of beauty and desirability. That standard of beauty is white men, so it's natural they desire them. They even call themselves Azn because they don't identify as Asian (or more commonly, they leave the race section on their dating/hook-up profiles blank).
 
BoiledEggz would say these are the guys who need validation -- but if all they know is whiteness, you can't blame them for wanting to trying to fit in -- even if it's a square peg in a round hole. Or a yellow person in a white world.
 
Then there are the "Asian Asians," typically among the newest immigrants, who might not be so assimilated. I don't want to generalize but they seem to be the other group BoiledEggz refers to. He calls them smart and savvy. Others might say they're unable or unwilling to assimilate. That's why they date other Asians.
 
I don't know very many people in this second group. Definitely not any of my Asian female friends, who are all fairly well assimilated, and I'd say 85 percent are married to or dating white men. Celeste Ng penned an op-ed eariler this week denouncing Asian men for criticizing these Asian women for dating white men.
 
I don't feel BoiledEggz is criticizing these Asian women's gay male counterparts (Asian men who seek/date white men) but is certainly critical. I have had militant Asian guys attack and threaten bodily harm on me for stating that I liked black and white men. I'll post the screengrabs when I can upload them.
 
To summarize, gay Asians truly are in a terrible predicament. Many go after guys who aren't into them, and their desperation only feeds into that. If one white guy likes them, it might be because of fetishism. Some -- the Azns -- go to great lengths to fit in, changing their looks (hair/eye color), working out to become hot, in hopes of being the "exception" white men desire.
 
And whether or not they succeed, many whites will always look see them for what they are -- not white -- so there's this internal self-loathing that is created. They bemoan the fact they can never fit in (I'll admit I suffer from this -- not because I want to be white -- but because I want to fit in).
 
On top of that, Asians will hate on each other -- either because they see each other as the competition, or they resent their Asian brothers for being too deferential to whites.
 
That's my experience at least. Btw, I have lived in Weho and SF and I would say these Asian couples BoiledEggz boasts about are the rare exception. I do, however get regular stink eye from other Asians when I go out because the reasons above.
 
Basically, it's a lose-lose for us all.

Thank you Sync and Sean Y for sharing and validating with what I've been trying to share for months.
 
BoilesEggz, as usual, we differ on opinion. But thank you for sharing yours as well.
 
Ironically, we live in the same area, have been to some of the same bars/clubs/spas what not, and have drastically different experiences.
 
Let me take a step back. Among the major minority groups, there's a phenomenon unique to Asians (as the group with the most recent immigration push). There's what we somewhat jokingly refer to as "Asians" versus "Asian Asians." For semantics (and ease of reading) I'll refer to the former as "Azns." Ironically, Azns use that term to differentiate themselves from Asian Asians. Let me explain:
 
Most Asians in America are either first or second generation. All minorities assimilate to a degree; that's often shaped by where you grow up. Simply, someone who grows up in Chinatown will probably be less assimilated than someone in say, Palo Alto. Or San Gabriel Valley (another Chinese enclave) than Santa Monica.
 
I'm not passing judgment on how assimilated (or as some would say, whitewashed) each person is. Because that's based on their surroundings and society and media. Maybe one's parents intentionally wanted you to "fit in" so they send you to soccer with the white kids instead if Chinese school.
 
The result is the Azns -- Asians who want to (and believe they do) fit in with white culture. In the gay world, the Azns may have exclusively white friends. They work out. They tan. They dress and style their hair a certain way to fit the gay standard of beauty and desirability. That standard of beauty is white men, so it's natural they desire them. They even call themselves Azn because they don't identify as Asian (or more commonly, they leave the race section on their dating/hook-up profiles blank).
 
BoiledEggz would say these are the guys who need validation -- but if all they know is whiteness, you can't blame them for wanting to trying to fit in -- even if it's a square peg in a round hole. Or a yellow person in a white world.
 
Then there are the "Asian Asians," typically among the newest immigrants, who might not be so assimilated. I don't want to generalize but they seem to be the other group BoiledEggz refers to. He calls them smart and savvy. Others might say they're unable or unwilling to assimilate. That's why they date other Asians.
 
I don't know very many people in this second group. Definitely not any of my Asian female friends, who are all fairly well assimilated, and I'd say 85 percent are married to or dating white men. Celeste Ng penned an op-ed eariler this week denouncing Asian men for criticizing these Asian women for dating white men.
 
I don't feel BoiledEggz is criticizing these Asian women's gay male counterparts (Asian men who seek/date white men) but is certainly critical. I have had militant Asian guys attack and threaten bodily harm on me for stating that I liked black and white men. I'll post the screengrabs when I can upload them.
 
To summarize, gay Asians truly are in a terrible predicament. Many go after guys who aren't into them, and their desperation only feeds into that. If one white guy likes them, it might be because of fetishism. Some -- the Azns -- go to great lengths to fit in, changing their looks (hair/eye color), working out to become hot, in hopes of being the "exception" white men desire.
 
And whether or not they succeed, many whites will always look see them for what they are -- not white -- so there's this internal self-loathing that is created. They bemoan the fact they can never fit in (I'll admit I suffer from this -- not because I want to be white -- but because I want to fit in).
 
On top of that, Asians will hate on each other -- either because they see each other as the competition, or they resent their Asian brothers for being too deferential to whites.
 
That's my experience at least. Btw, I have lived in Weho and SF and I would say these Asian couples BoiledEggz boasts about are the rare exception. I do, however get regular stink eye from other Asians when I go out because the reasons above.
 
Basically, it's a lose-lose for us all.

Chelo, you can search my posting history to see me talk about discrimination that I face, mostly due to my race.
 
I won't detail them here, but they can be as minor as insults and looks (often by the white gay elite) to serious threats (ironically, an Asian guy threatened to "get a group of guys" to beat me up and find/harrass me at work for expressing a preference for white and black men).
 
For those who say "grow a thick skin" and "stop worrying what people think." As a minority, that very skin is what I'm attacked, othered, and discriminated over. Because many LGB people can visually "pass" as straight (the "norm" in most societies), they typically aren't subject to harrassment like say, an Asian (my ethnicity) is.
 
I worry what strangers think because random they can harrass -- or worse, hurt -- me just based on that skin. And they do. Regularly. Randomly. I intentionally omitted the T/trans above because I believe trans people are subject to the same threats minorities are just based upon appearance.
 
A few more thoughts about "growing a thick skin." Of course I'd love to go through the world not worried about what others think. But it's difficult to "thicken one's skin" when you experience micro and macro-aggessions every day of your life, ever since you were an adolescent. And it gets depressing when you realize that likely for the rest of your life, you will continue to experience that.
 
And sometimes you don't want to just ignore it. As a minority (not just racial, this applies to any group that is put down), sometimes you want to speak out, share your experience, and "fight the good fight." And often when you do, you are told "stop playing the race (or insert whatever else here)" card or to "move on." Even members of this very thread (and an admin) have told me what to do or dismissed my opinions. Sometimes, you are driven to speak out. And consequently told to shut up. That is very invalidating.
 
Unfortunately, those who discriminate often are the ones lauded. In the gay community, it's not surprising that the white elite (the good-looking, fit types that the media and society push as the ideal) are the ones who most frequently and vocally say "no Asians." And sadly, no one blinks and eye when they see or hear that.
 
This lengthy post just scratches the surface of what is means to be an "undersirable" (i.e. Asian, fat, old) in gay society. The saddest part is the internalized racism (I can't tell you how many times another gay Asian has treated me horribly), sizeism and ageism out there in the gay community.
 
If there's one thing I agree with above, it's that our community discriminates to a fault.

Chelo, you can search my posting history to see me talk about discrimination that I face, mostly due to my race.
 
I won't detail them here, but they can be as minor as insults and looks (often by the white gay elite) to serious threats (ironically, an Asian guy threatened to "get a group of guys" to beat me up and find/harrass me at work for expressing a preference for white and black men).
 
For those who say "grow a thick skin" and "stop worrying what people think." As a minority, that very skin is what I'm attacked, othered, and discriminated over. Because many LGB people can visually "pass" as straight (the "norm" in most societies), they typically aren't subject to harrassment like say, an Asian (my ethnicity) is.
 
I worry what strangers think because random they can harrass -- or worse, hurt -- me just based on that skin. And they do. Regularly. Randomly. I intentionally omitted the T/trans above because I believe trans people are subject to the same threats minorities are just based upon appearance.
 
A few more thoughts about "growing a thick skin." Of course I'd love to go through the world not worried about what others think. But it's difficult to "thicken one's skin" when you experience micro and macro-aggessions every day of your life, ever since you were an adolescent. And it gets depressing when you realize that likely for the rest of your life, you will continue to experience that.
 
And sometimes you don't want to just ignore it. As a minority (not just racial, this applies to any group that is put down), sometimes you want to speak out, share your experience, and "fight the good fight." And often when you do, you are told "stop playing the race (or insert whatever else here)" card or to "move on." Even members of this very thread (and an admin) have told me what to do or dismissed my opinions. Sometimes, you are driven to speak out. And consequently told to shut up. That is very invalidating.
 
Unfortunately, those who discriminate often are the ones lauded. In the gay community, it's not surprising that the white elite (the good-looking, fit types that the media and society push as the ideal) are the ones who most frequently and vocally say "no Asians." And sadly, no one blinks and eye when they see or hear that.
 
This lengthy post just scratches the surface of what is means to be an "undersirable" (i.e. Asian, fat, old) in gay society. The saddest part is the internalized racism (I can't tell you how many times another gay Asian has treated me horribly), sizeism and ageism out there in the gay community.
 
If there's one thing I agree with above, it's that our community discriminates to a fault.

But racism has always sustained a belief in the singular exception, so that still doesn’t quite line up for me. The question is about the content of those preferences, not whether or not they exist.

Hi Sync, appreciate your words of encouragements for Drained Empty. Logically, I think self love is a good first step to developing a stronger self esteem and therefore happiness. However, imagine how difficult that is if day in and day out, you’re confronted by a society or community that tells you you’re not good enough, not pretty enough, not worthy of love. Maybe you won’t believe it the first time, ignore it the twentieth or hundred times, but eventually, you may think it’s even true. (That’s why we have high suicide rates for young gays, TGs, etc. and why the cosmetic industry, the diet industry, the cosmetic surgery industry, etc. are billion dollar strong because we are all not good enough)
 
As for the “Web” or such places we call “rice bars”, it’s nice to have a place of “acceptance,” where you’re not a minority. These are similar to the Chinatowns, the Castros in SF or other ghettos that were set up world-wide - initially as havens for the specific “minority” where we can feel safe and proud to be ourselves. But consider whether you would be happy if these are the only places you are accepted or feel safe. It’s the same concept - yes - it’s great to have places where we feel safe to be Asian or gay and be loved for being Asian or gay or black or whatever minority. But wouldn’t it be more wonderful if we can be loved outside of these ghettos.
 
And for those who are not familiar with rice bars, it’s a bit more complicated. You see, when you’re a young Asian boy growing up thinking that you’re not good enough, continuously told you’re not good enough just because you’re Asian, what do you think will happen when you’re in an Asian bar with lots of other Asians. Yup, you think they are Asians and therefore they are also not good enough either. This is what we call internalized racism which leads to externalized racism. Unfortunately, it’s against others like yourself and your kind. So, no, it’s not as easy as oh, ignore it and it’ll go away - ummm, there’s really only a few ways to walk away from yourself, one of which is permanently.
 
Now, let’s talk about the non-Asians at these rice bars - they come with a very specific attitude - easy picking because these Asian boys are desperate for a white boy so you can treat them like shit and they’ll be happy. At these bars, the non-Asians tend to be at least 20-30 years older than the Asian boys and about 50-80 pounds heavier. You’ve seen them about - it’s a different type of racism.
 
When I was 20, I was invited to a Pacific Friends party in SF (an organization to introduce white guys to Asian boys, and I played the little Asian boy in a room full of much older white men). I was grabbed without permission, pawed and expected to giggle like the geisha boy. It’s a very different power dynamic - older colonialists and the little native. So, should I feel loved because these older white men want to possess me? It’s an interesting dilemma - am I beautiful because I am exotic and smooth and slim and so quiet (only because I was freaking out!!!!)? And if I am beautiful, why am I only beautiful to these guys who expect me to play the bottom, to nod and smile and be meek but not to the regular young guys at the clubs like End-Up or the Mix etc.? Bars like the N’Touch and the Rice Paddy and probably the Web are full of guys with similar attitudes. So racism is not just an against... it’s also an applied assumption/stereotype. I am Asian so therefore I am expected to play the “girl” or passive role (nothing wrong with being the receiver but... not doing just because i’m Asian or it’s expected), the quiet submissive Asian, the young boy to the older man, etc. etc. (now, if we’re playing sex fantasy role play, sure, i’ll be happy to don my rice paddy hat and let some strapping white boy come dominate me.)
 
(But unfortunately or maybe fortunately in real life, I’m more buff now than skinny, have always been loud and bossy, and opinionated so not really submissive. And in my younger days, was too proud to be a boy toy but am open to the option if you have lots of sugar has haaaa...)
 
Things have changed a lot - Asians are no longer just relegated to rice bars and we can now date boys our own age and our body types. If you visit boyculture or queerty or any other gay sites, you’ll see gay Asians with hot bodies next to boys of other races. But as much as the community has advanced, you still hear a lot of discriminations and also defense of it “well, it’s a sexual attraction” so that’s OK. Let me put it another way... if you put “no Asian, no fat, no femme” you’re actually are being racist, fat phobic and anti-femme (whatever that word is). It’s not a preference - it’s a discrimination. You see, you’re not attracted to all whites, all non-fat or none-femme hits - because amongst those, some have long hair, some with no hair, some with long faces and some with missing teeth, etc. And you didn’t list those preferences either: like no long hair, no missing teeth, etc. etc. There are thousands of parameters to which you judge someone and you didn’t list them. You list their race so that makes you a racist. You list their body weight, so your fat phobic, etc. You could easily just judge the Asian as with any white guy who’s not fat or femme and find the Asian either attractive or not. But the fact that he’s automatically out of the running because he’s Asian makes it racist. Also, there’s a difference between saying I am attracted to something or I prefer something - that’s a preference - like I have a thing for blue eyes and long long lashes. But specifically stating that you dislike something, that the ism.

Chelo, you can search my posting history to see me talk about discrimination that I face, mostly due to my race.
 
I won't detail them here, but they can be as minor as insults and looks (often by the white gay elite) to serious threats (ironically, an Asian guy threatened to "get a group of guys" to beat me up and find/harrass me at work for expressing a preference for white and black men).
 
For those who say "grow a thick skin" and "stop worrying what people think." As a minority, that very skin is what I'm attacked, othered, and discriminated over. Because many LGB people can visually "pass" as straight (the "norm" in most societies), they typically aren't subject to harrassment like say, an Asian (my ethnicity) is.
 
I worry what strangers think because random they can harrass -- or worse, hurt -- me just based on that skin. And they do. Regularly. Randomly. I intentionally omitted the T/trans above because I believe trans people are subject to the same threats minorities are just based upon appearance.
 
A few more thoughts about "growing a thick skin." Of course I'd love to go through the world not worried about what others think. But it's difficult to "thicken one's skin" when you experience micro and macro-aggessions every day of your life, ever since you were an adolescent. And it gets depressing when you realize that likely for the rest of your life, you will continue to experience that.
 
And sometimes you don't want to just ignore it. As a minority (not just racial, this applies to any group that is put down), sometimes you want to speak out, share your experience, and "fight the good fight." And often when you do, you are told "stop playing the race (or insert whatever else here)" card or to "move on." Even members of this very thread (and an admin) have told me what to do or dismissed my opinions. Sometimes, you are driven to speak out. And consequently told to shut up. That is very invalidating.
 
Unfortunately, those who discriminate often are the ones lauded. In the gay community, it's not surprising that the white elite (the good-looking, fit types that the media and society push as the ideal) are the ones who most frequently and vocally say "no Asians." And sadly, no one blinks and eye when they see or hear that.
 
This lengthy post just scratches the surface of what is means to be an "undersirable" (i.e. Asian, fat, old) in gay society. The saddest part is the internalized racism (I can't tell you how many times another gay Asian has treated me horribly), sizeism and ageism out there in the gay community.
 
If there's one thing I agree with above, it's that our community discriminates to a fault.

Chelo, you can search my posting history to see me talk about discrimination that I face, mostly due to my race.
 
I won't detail them here, but they can be as minor as insults and looks (often by the white gay elite) to serious threats (ironically, an Asian guy threatened to "get a group of guys" to beat me up and find/harrass me at work for expressing a preference for white and black men).
 
For those who say "grow a thick skin" and "stop worrying what people think." As a minority, that very skin is what I'm attacked, othered, and discriminated over. Because many LGB people can visually "pass" as straight (the "norm" in most societies), they typically aren't subject to harrassment like say, an Asian (my ethnicity) is.
 
I worry what strangers think because random they can harrass -- or worse, hurt -- me just based on that skin. And they do. Regularly. Randomly. I intentionally omitted the T/trans above because I believe trans people are subject to the same threats minorities are just based upon appearance.
 
A few more thoughts about "growing a thick skin." Of course I'd love to go through the world not worried about what others think. But it's difficult to "thicken one's skin" when you experience micro and macro-aggessions every day of your life, ever since you were an adolescent. And it gets depressing when you realize that likely for the rest of your life, you will continue to experience that.
 
And sometimes you don't want to just ignore it. As a minority (not just racial, this applies to any group that is put down), sometimes you want to speak out, share your experience, and "fight the good fight." And often when you do, you are told "stop playing the race (or insert whatever else here)" card or to "move on." Even members of this very thread (and an admin) have told me what to do or dismissed my opinions. Sometimes, you are driven to speak out. And consequently told to shut up. That is very invalidating.
 
Unfortunately, those who discriminate often are the ones lauded. In the gay community, it's not surprising that the white elite (the good-looking, fit types that the media and society push as the ideal) are the ones who most frequently and vocally say "no Asians." And sadly, no one blinks and eye when they see or hear that.
 
This lengthy post just scratches the surface of what is means to be an "undersirable" (i.e. Asian, fat, old) in gay society. The saddest part is the internalized racism (I can't tell you how many times another gay Asian has treated me horribly), sizeism and ageism out there in the gay community.
 
If there's one thing I agree with above, it's that our community discriminates to a fault.

Chelo, you can search my posting history to see me talk about discrimination that I face, mostly due to my race.
 
I won't detail them here, but they can be as minor as insults and looks (often by the white gay elite) to serious threats (ironically, an Asian guy threatened to "get a group of guys" to beat me up and find/harrass me at work for expressing a preference for white and black men).
 
For those who say "grow a thick skin" and "stop worrying what people think." As a minority, that very skin is what I'm attacked, othered, and discriminated over. Because many LGB people can visually "pass" as straight (the "norm" in most societies), they typically aren't subject to harrassment like say, an Asian (my ethnicity) is.
 
I worry what strangers think because random they can harrass -- or worse, hurt -- me just based on that skin. And they do. Regularly. Randomly. I intentionally omitted the T/trans above because I believe trans people are subject to the same threats minorities are just based upon appearance.
 
A few more thoughts about "growing a thick skin." Of course I'd love to go through the world not worried about what others think. But it's difficult to "thicken one's skin" when you experience micro and macro-aggessions every day of your life, ever since you were an adolescent. And it gets depressing when you realize that likely for the rest of your life, you will continue to experience that.
 
And sometimes you don't want to just ignore it. As a minority (not just racial, this applies to any group that is put down), sometimes you want to speak out, share your experience, and "fight the good fight." And often when you do, you are told "stop playing the race (or insert whatever else here)" card or to "move on." Even members of this very thread (and an admin) have told me what to do or dismissed my opinions. Sometimes, you are driven to speak out. And consequently told to shut up. That is very invalidating.
 
Unfortunately, those who discriminate often are the ones lauded. In the gay community, it's not surprising that the white elite (the good-looking, fit types that the media and society push as the ideal) are the ones who most frequently and vocally say "no Asians." And sadly, no one blinks and eye when they see or hear that.
 
This lengthy post just scratches the surface of what is means to be an "undersirable" (i.e. Asian, fat, old) in gay society. The saddest part is the internalized racism (I can't tell you how many times another gay Asian has treated me horribly), sizeism and ageism out there in the gay community.
 
If there's one thing I agree with above, it's that our community discriminates to a fault.

I'll check out a Wednesday or Friday night and report back!

Dude, I'm just sharing my experience.
 
It takes minimal observation skills to see who is walked out on: Asians, older guys, heavyset guys. A few months ago I pointed it out to a very attractive white/latino guy. We actually put a wager on how many times I would clear a room. Suffice to say I won and his eyes were opened.
 
For the record, I absolutely, unequivocally know many of these guys are racist. That's because I had a super hot white friend hit them up on Grindr and ask them. You'd be surprised how honest (and racist) some white guys are when they think they're talking to another white guy.
 
Of course, I'm not everyone's type. And I know some people are just rude. But there are a ton of racists out there. For the record, I didn't start this thread nor bring up race first. And another poster started the Wilshire spa thread and said the same thing.
 
So no, it's not just in my head. And yes, it is a recurring theme.
 
Maybe you'll get some perspective if you watch the first Kindr Grindr episode where minorities talk about how they face micro and macro aggressions in every day situations. Yes, even going to a spa meant for minorities.

If you can get a table, Frances is super yummy!!!! It’s in the Castro. Pricey but really worth it. For Italian, I love Perbacco, especially their short ribs with mash and horseradish sauce; the yellowtail appetizer is also super yum there. Great date night/special dinner place.
For good Southern Indian, I recommend Dosa (either in the Mission or in Fillmore - fancier dig) - totally different than most of the standard Indian fares (which tend to be more Northern or Pakistani fares). If you go to East Bay, I would also suggest Vik’s Chaat which is Indian street food. For Vietnamese food, Tu Lan is OK - used to be better. I think PPQ and Perilla in the Sunset are better but even then not compared to Pho Ao Sen in Oakland or in Albany. And for good burritos and tacos, there are 2 taco trucks that are still pretty good and authentic: one next to Best Buy (Division and Harrison) and one next to 16th St. and Shotwell - it’s where lots of the local folks eat.