Drained Empty

Love that spa. Had a strictly therapeutic massage but the masseur does have his own separate massage profile (and I think runs an erotic model website). Since it's such a unique term, you can search Gendarmerie in the upper right to see various threads.

Would love to hear any other Melbourne recommendations as well.

Yeah, I think we've all shared enough of our experiences. Thank you all for sharing, especially my fellow Asians. PM me if you'd like to continue the conversation.

Pretty sure that's Tagalog and filmed in the Philippines.

You're a cis biracial woman who can pass for white and from the East Coast. No offense but you have no idea what it means to be a gay male minority. May I venture to guess that your mom is Asian and your dad is white?

Oh I wasn't hating on it. Like you I had an awesome massage there recently.

Wow, you really love this band. Glad you can find positive messaging in their music -- I mean ultimately it's part of their branding. I know they (and K-pop) are hot right now but in a few years they'll probably go the way of Justin Bieber. FWIW, I know BTS have many fangirls like you but most of the guys in Weho would not find any of them remotely attractive. They would definitely fall into "Asian Asians" category rather than Azns.

There are a few places called Meridian or Meredian, hence the confusion. This one is in Weho off SMB. Definitely a walk-in. It's pretty small from what I could tell. Rooms are small with pocket doors. Note they do have showers in room, I believe. Just not a separate shower area with lockers or saunas or steam rooms like a larger hotel or Burke.

From my experience, YMMV with all three. Anthony talked my ear off. Was subjected to hearing about his entire acting career, about his cats, etc. Only at the very end did it get remotely sensual, and it was pretty prefunctory. That being said, he is a nice guy, good masseur, clean place (at least massage room) and handsome and hung. I guess I just wasn't his type. On the opposite end Phil is super quiet. I know other posters have written he has offered much more with them "every time." Maybe if you're hung like a horse. I am not. Probably wasn't his type either. Speaking of hung like a horse, there's Rob. One of the worst experiences of my life. Deep massage if that's what you're looking for. He talked my ear off and had zero sensuality. I really must not have been his type. Good luck.

Jacob is great and my go-to. Strong but sensitive to what your needs are. Did not care for AJ at all.

I am an astute observer of life and human behavior -- it's actually part of what I do for a living. Walker 1, I greatly respect the art of drag. At the risk of sounding cliche, one of my good friends is a successful drag queen. He -- and I'm not trying to offend by using that pronoun (as you see from previous posts I'm super sensitive when it comes to offending) -- has a super hot boyfriend. It's just not for me. No judgment there. Likewise, going to a circuit party (whether it be in Palm Springs or Thailand) is not for me, regardless of it's racial make-up. Because honestly I wouldn't "pass" there either -- too many muscled, shirtless party boys. Not for me. For lack of a better word, I'm very str8-acting. My gay friends joke that I don't remotely "ping." Sure, I act (or I should say am) that way I don't want to be gay bashed. But also, it's truly my personality -- masculine, non-flamboyant. Now that doesn't mean I'm toxic or homophobic. But it also doesn't mean I'm a bump on a log when I go out. Or a top lol. I will admit rejection wrecks me. It literally pains me when someone blocks me on a dating app (I never reach out first btw). It upsets me when guys walk out on me in steamroom. I assume it's because of my looks or my race. It usually is, because they won't walk out on a say, older heavy bald white guy. Those who reject have the power. That's why I ask a masseur if they are okay with Asian clients. 98 percent of them are, but I don't want to be rejected. The very first time I hired a provider, I of course checked with him. He said enthusiastically yes, but he kinda gave me "the look" (and after years of interactions you know what "the look" is) so gave him his $300 (with a tip ... I know, it's me not trying to offend, again) and sent him home early. The second (and last time) I saw a provider, he seemed to be into me. Afterwards, I jokingly asked him about his lasting erection and he said he injected Trimix. I took this to me he did not find me attractive, was forced to have an erection and interact with me, and immediately felt very rejected. If a guy (usually multiple) get up and leave from a steamroom or sauna, I will apologize and avoid them (and the rejection) for the rest of the night. Sure it sucks. Sometimes I end up sitting in the bathroom because there's nowhere else to go. Or I just concede a room and leave. And yes, I absolutely can and do keep track and remember for future visits. But I'd rather not go in and get the reputation as a creeper Asian or a guy ruining things for others. I could never be an actor or model. The rejection would drive me to suicide. Again, that doesn't mean I lock myself in the house and work from my basement. I'm very senior and good at what I do, but I made sure of that super early in my career to avoid any professional rejection. Simply put, I don't like rejection and consequently, losing. I believe the way our society is and through observation, Asians are on the losing end versus the white elites. These elites are the tastemakers, the guys who others gravitate to. So of course when they write "No Asians," that power gap is reinforced. BoiledEggz is probably going to jump in here and bemoan the fact that I'm so weak. But I'm not. I fought that fight. I've spent my entire adult life seeing "No Asians," getting walked out on, being told all guys like me are undersirable, weak, ugly. I'm just tired of fighting that fight. As I've written previously, I takes so much energy just to "pass" nowadays anyway because we're already fighting an uphill battle against stereotypes and guys who ruin it for us. To frame it in the greater thread, that is the power of discrimination. Sure, we can call those who discriminate as awful people, but they still hold the power. And when these people are the elites, it just makes the fight so much harder.

I think most minorities -- especially first generation ones -- try hard to "fit in" for several reasons. The first is obvious. You become part of a the prevailing culture that is different than yours. You speak English instead of Japanese. You bring sandwiches to school instead of rice. You try to minimize your "otherness" to "pass." For many gay men, especially those 30+, that meant been pretending to date girls. Some even acted homophobic, using slurs, threats or even violence. Why? They did so out of fear. They didn't want to be the "other." Of course, those attitudes have changed. Kids are coming out in school. People are openly gay and proud. But there still are many who are not, and you can't fault them for not being ready, able, or comfortable to do so. For minorities there may be similar struggles. And if you're gay and a minority, it's doubly difficult. Whiteness, beautiful whiteness, is the prevailing culture for gay men. It pervades our media, our advertising, our neighborhoods (hell, even our Korean spas are now predominantly white). Perhaps it is "false and racist" as BoiledEggz suggests, but we cannot deny how pervasive and dominant it is. So most try to assimilate and fit into that. The main reason why it's so pervasive is there aren't many alternatives. Hence if you go to boystown in SF, LA, Vancouver, Sydney, etc. you will see that beautiful whiteness and everyone chasing it -- white, black, brown, yellow. BoiledEggz brings up Thai circuit parties. I'm sure there are gorgeous Asian guys there. In a sea of other Asians guys. But that's the prevailing culture there. We don't live there. I don't even live in Weho but I try to fit in. Not because I'm seeking attention from a white guy (and let's be honest -- despite what you and Sean have written, attitudes are not changing and Asians are still on the bottom when it comes to desirability). I just want to "pass." That's why it really bothers me when guys get up and leave when I enter the steamroom. That's why it bothers me when I get a dirty look when I enter a bar. I just want to "pass" but I'm immediately seen as "other." It's also why nearly all the "hot" Asian guys on Grindr don't list their ethnicity or lie and say that they're mixed (seriously, it's a thing. Turn on your Grindr and see). Or they just post a body pic. Because they know Asians are filtered out. They just want to "pass." Each person does what they need to do to feel valued, or at the very least, "pass." There are the Azns who pump and preen and go out with their white buds to the Abbey or wherever. Then there's the guys who don't give a fuck -- often because they know they'll never be accepted -- and give the rest a bad reputation. It's the pushy, out of shape Asian guy who will leer and try to grab a hot white guy at the spa. The weirdo who tries to gyrate on the hot white guy on the the dance floor. We all know the type. It just takes one, but his desperation ruins it for the rest of us. As Asians, we're already discriminated against, and these guys make it worse. They widen that gap between white people and Asians because now white guys can legitimately hate us and say "ew, Asians" or stereotype us further as desperate, pushy, etc. It just makes it that much harder to "pass." When I was a kid and on the rare occasion I'd have a white classmate over, I'd say "sorry if my house smells Asian." I didn't want to upset the prevailing culture's sensibilities. So I do the same now. If I enter a room and all the white guys leave, I feel I have upset the prevailing culture's sensibilities. Even though a home's scent or the act of entering a room isn't offensive, you feel that you have offended. And I was raised when you offend someone, you apologize. Even if you've done nothing wrong.

Thank you Sync and Sean Y for sharing and validating with what I've been trying to share for months. BoilesEggz, as usual, we differ on opinion. But thank you for sharing yours as well. Ironically, we live in the same area, have been to some of the same bars/clubs/spas what not, and have drastically different experiences. Let me take a step back. Among the major minority groups, there's a phenomenon unique to Asians (as the group with the most recent immigration push). There's what we somewhat jokingly refer to as "Asians" versus "Asian Asians." For semantics (and ease of reading) I'll refer to the former as "Azns." Ironically, Azns use that term to differentiate themselves from Asian Asians. Let me explain: Most Asians in America are either first or second generation. All minorities assimilate to a degree; that's often shaped by where you grow up. Simply, someone who grows up in Chinatown will probably be less assimilated than someone in say, Palo Alto. Or San Gabriel Valley (another Chinese enclave) than Santa Monica. I'm not passing judgment on how assimilated (or as some would say, whitewashed) each person is. Because that's based on their surroundings and society and media. Maybe one's parents intentionally wanted you to "fit in" so they send you to soccer with the white kids instead if Chinese school. The result is the Azns -- Asians who want to (and believe they do) fit in with white culture. In the gay world, the Azns may have exclusively white friends. They work out. They tan. They dress and style their hair a certain way to fit the gay standard of beauty and desirability. That standard of beauty is white men, so it's natural they desire them. They even call themselves Azn because they don't identify as Asian (or more commonly, they leave the race section on their dating/hook-up profiles blank). BoiledEggz would say these are the guys who need validation -- but if all they know is whiteness, you can't blame them for wanting to trying to fit in -- even if it's a square peg in a round hole. Or a yellow person in a white world. Then there are the "Asian Asians," typically among the newest immigrants, who might not be so assimilated. I don't want to generalize but they seem to be the other group BoiledEggz refers to. He calls them smart and savvy. Others might say they're unable or unwilling to assimilate. That's why they date other Asians. I don't know very many people in this second group. Definitely not any of my Asian female friends, who are all fairly well assimilated, and I'd say 85 percent are married to or dating white men. Celeste Ng penned an op-ed eariler this week denouncing Asian men for criticizing these Asian women for dating white men. I don't feel BoiledEggz is criticizing these Asian women's gay male counterparts (Asian men who seek/date white men) but is certainly critical. I have had militant Asian guys attack and threaten bodily harm on me for stating that I liked black and white men. I'll post the screengrabs when I can upload them. To summarize, gay Asians truly are in a terrible predicament. Many go after guys who aren't into them, and their desperation only feeds into that. If one white guy likes them, it might be because of fetishism. Some -- the Azns -- go to great lengths to fit in, changing their looks (hair/eye color), working out to become hot, in hopes of being the "exception" white men desire. And whether or not they succeed, many whites will always look see them for what they are -- not white -- so there's this internal self-loathing that is created. They bemoan the fact they can never fit in (I'll admit I suffer from this -- not because I want to be white -- but because I want to fit in). On top of that, Asians will hate on each other -- either because they see each other as the competition, or they resent their Asian brothers for being too deferential to whites. That's my experience at least. Btw, I have lived in Weho and SF and I would say these Asian couples BoiledEggz boasts about are the rare exception. I do, however get regular stink eye from other Asians when I go out because the reasons above. Basically, it's a lose-lose for us all.

During a recent evening visit there were 4-5 fitter guys there. I'm pretty sure one guy was from 'The Bachelorette" and "Bachelor in Paradise" -- Iggy? He had a very loud douchebag friend. They didn't wear trunks, but later one guy hopped into the hot tub in his underwear. He didn't shower either. Just hopped straight in. Gross.

Chelo, you can search my posting history to see me talk about discrimination that I face, mostly due to my race. I won't detail them here, but they can be as minor as insults and looks (often by the white gay elite) to serious threats (ironically, an Asian guy threatened to "get a group of guys" to beat me up and find/harrass me at work for expressing a preference for white and black men). For those who say "grow a thick skin" and "stop worrying what people think." As a minority, that very skin is what I'm attacked, othered, and discriminated over. Because many LGB people can visually "pass" as straight (the "norm" in most societies), they typically aren't subject to harrassment like say, an Asian (my ethnicity) is. I worry what strangers think because random they can harrass -- or worse, hurt -- me just based on that skin. And they do. Regularly. Randomly. I intentionally omitted the T/trans above because I believe trans people are subject to the same threats minorities are just based upon appearance. A few more thoughts about "growing a thick skin." Of course I'd love to go through the world not worried about what others think. But it's difficult to "thicken one's skin" when you experience micro and macro-aggessions every day of your life, ever since you were an adolescent. And it gets depressing when you realize that likely for the rest of your life, you will continue to experience that. And sometimes you don't want to just ignore it. As a minority (not just racial, this applies to any group that is put down), sometimes you want to speak out, share your experience, and "fight the good fight." And often when you do, you are told "stop playing the race (or insert whatever else here)" card or to "move on." Even members of this very thread (and an admin) have told me what to do or dismissed my opinions. Sometimes, you are driven to speak out. And consequently told to shut up. That is very invalidating. Unfortunately, those who discriminate often are the ones lauded. In the gay community, it's not surprising that the white elite (the good-looking, fit types that the media and society push as the ideal) are the ones who most frequently and vocally say "no Asians." And sadly, no one blinks and eye when they see or hear that. This lengthy post just scratches the surface of what is means to be an "undersirable" (i.e. Asian, fat, old) in gay society. The saddest part is the internalized racism (I can't tell you how many times another gay Asian has treated me horribly), sizeism and ageism out there in the gay community. If there's one thing I agree with above, it's that our community discriminates to a fault.

I had a terrible experience with Rob. Found parking really difficult in his area. He was shorter than he says. Massage was deep, which is fine, but I was actually sore in a few places prior to the massage and he caused more pain. Massage was on the bed (itchy sheets), lights low, him clothed. The worst part was he talked the entire time non stop about how much money he needed to make from clients. Very unrelaxing and very unerotic, not that he was doing anything remotely sensual. So clearly YMMV. I am not white and may not have been his type, for what it's worth. He did change clothes at the end and from what I could tell he was huge.

I'll check out a Wednesday or Friday night and report back!

Anyone have recent experiences here and want to share over PM?

Most guys are respectful of each other. But it just takes one "alpha" who determines "who's in" and "who's out" and the rest follow suit. And while they're usually white, they're not always. I used to find African American patrons fairly sympathetic (and of course, I'm always polite to everyone) but in my recent visits I've found some have adopted a similar Weho attitude. In a recent visit, four different black patrons walked out on me. It wasn't a "it's too hot" walk out. They would leave if I entered and reenter when I left. One guy was leading a group messing around outside. I was also outside drying off but didn't cross the threshold (it's sad but nowadays there's literally a physical line I do not cross in the patio or steam). I was there for minutes but it wasn't until he saw my face instead of just my arm/torso he flew out of there. One of the other guys was a Weho alpha I'll call Chad (real name probably Chad). Chad was there the entire time I was and would give mean and intimidating looks. He and another Weho type (who I one hundred percent know is racist because my friend got him to admit it) would close the main door and patio door on patrons they didn't like. Once they started messing around in the steam room I knew I had to go. Ugh.

Has anyone ever tried Chappy? I've always thought Scruff was for white men but a lot of my minority friends are leaving Grindr for it.

SF is definitely more Cantonese speaking. Actually, I find most Western enclaves of Chinese people -- San Francisco, San Jose, Vancouver, even Houston -- to be Cantonese speaking. And everywhere in between, as well. For example, if you enter a Chinese restaurant, you probably can't go wrong greeting and ordering in Cantonese, those many will understand Mandarin.

An Asian doctor (Dr. Ho) pioneered HIV research that so many gay men owe their lives to. As you pointed out, Asian engineers work on the technologies that allow us to post on these devices and boards. Hell, even Asian investors own Grindr. And I can't tell you how many white guys use Korean spas sporting their Chinese calligraphy tattoos. But if an Asian enters the room, it's clear the decks.

It's the way that white men act. They are in a position of power. They are they alphas. They are the gay elite. White men are what are epitomized. They make the rules. So if attractive white men say "no Asians," that becomes a prevalent attitude. Take my biracial Filipino friend that I mentioned above. He downright denounces Asians because that thinking is so engrained. He used to try to pass (like Darren Criss) as white or latin. Nothing exemplifies this privilege more that Korean spas. We have a lot of them in LA. What was a venue for Asian men/families to bathe and relax have become gay bathhouses for white men. These white men have completely taken them over, glaring and scoffing at Korean patrons. Then if a Korean patron complains, I have witnessed white guys walk out on them, close doors in their face, etc. I don't disagree that everyone has preferences and prejudices. It's how you act on them.

There's no definitive line between "preference" and "racism," but here's how I differentiate. For me (and others), preference isn't exclusionary. While I personally may prefer white or black men, I'm open to Latin and Asian men. Racism is exclusionary. It may be overt ("no Asians" advisories in profiles, or providers turning you down after they learn your race). I have been in a steam room obscured by steam and overhead white guys complaining about "too many Asians." Likewise, when the steam clears and they see me, they get up and leave. They didn't do it before the entire time I was sitting there. They don't do it to white patrons even though they may be out of shape, older, and other qualities seen as "undesirable." The only difference? Race. Many white gays say, "I don't want to have sex with women, does that make me sexist?" No, it doesn't make one sexist. But it's how one acts. Guys don't write "no eggs" (or whatever dehumanizing equivalent to "no rice" is). If a woman approaches a man in a bar, he doesn't stick his hand in her face to ward her off. And guys don't glare, roll their eyes, or leave when women enter their space. The worst part is, after experiencing these behaviors, many Asians internalize them. It may be because of male beauty standards, it may be wanting to fit in with white culture. I'll never forget when I went to a bar with a biracial Asian friend and he said, "ew, Asian guys." What does he think about me? What does he think about himself? The self-loathing is the saddest part. And the justification is just as bad. A story recently made rounds about a Filipino guy on a dating show. Two Asian girls turned him down immediately. The reason they gave? They don't want people to think they're dating their brother. Wtf. No one ever thinks this. They're just self-loathing racists. No white person would ever think this, let alone say it. On the flip side, no white person has to deal with being harrassed for their preferences. On my dating profiles I state the preference I did above. I have had multiple Asian guys attack me, threaten me, and worse. If I can find a way to post these messages you would be appalled. If I were a woman and received these threats I'd report the sender to police. Again, an experience unique to Asians. At least I think they are.

This is exactly why I state my race before I meet with anyone (even a masseur). Let's face it, many guys aren't into Asians. Or actively "do not like" them, as Tasso wrote. It could be for many reasons; people may presume we have small dicks, are effeminate, are super clingy or desperate, etc. Despite been on the receiving end of these macro- (a white guy literally put his hand in my face, several have given me fake, far away addresses) and micro-aggrsssions (a disapproving "look" -- you know it when you see it) for years, every rejection still stabs, so I avoid it when possible. I assume you mean the "they" in "they don't do so well on Grindr" are Asian. See above. Asians are pretty much the lowest rung in the gay hierarchy, with possibly SE Asians below. And because of that, providers may charge extra. I'm in Silicon Valley regularly, and can tell you Asians and SE Asians are the overwhelming majority in some areas. This is reflected on Grindr. So if you are a white (or latin) provider you are seen as extra desirable (as most Asians aren't into other Asians as well) and can set rates accordingly. Also, keep in mind incomes are higher there as well. It's a unique plight gay Asians face (i.e. I doubt any of you have ever received a message asking if you're into your own race) but I don't want to wallow in it too much in this thread. I actually got banned for "playing the race card" before when I was just explaining my unique situation.