ApexNomad

This might be my new favorite thread. Thank you!

I agree that public figures of any gender can face criticism when their cosmetic surgery is perceived as “too much.” But I still believe the scrutiny is not applied evenly, especially when it comes to aging itself. The conversation isn’t just about who gets “called out” for surgery—it’s about the why and how behind that scrutiny. Again, when a man ages naturally, he’s often praised for looking “rugged,” “wise,” or “distinguished.” When a woman does the same, she’s more likely to be called “brave” or even seen as “letting herself go.” Pamela Anderson not wearing any make up on red carpets has made more headlines than peace talks. If she opts for surgery, the judgment can be even more vicious—often framed around desperation or vanity. That’s the double bind. You mentioned Jane Fonda—she’s also spent decades being upfront about her surgeries and her own internalized ageism, and even she has said she regrets some of the choices she made to stay “camera ready.” Meanwhile, someone like Paul Newman aged into roles with grace and gravitas and was never expected to justify his wrinkles. So while I agree that men face more pressure now than before, the societal baseline is still uneven. One gender is taught their value increases with age. The other is taught it fades.

Yes and no. I agree that, broadly speaking, guys today are more aware of the facts about sexuality, and in many places, the climate is a lot more open. But I think it really depends on the social circle and the geography. For instance, a college football player or wrestler from somewhere like Kentucky might still struggle deeply with being honest about who they are. The fear hasn’t disappeared—it’s just shifted. In many communities, the stigma is still very real, shaped by cultural expectations, social norms, and how someone was raised. So while progress has definitely been made, there are still so many who feel they have to repress who they are or find other outlets, just to survive.

One of the best things I’ve read here.

Ouch! 😂

My point is about double standards, not surgery. The cultural framing around aging remains unequal. An older man is often seen as wise, sexy, or “distinguished,” while an older woman—especially one who shows visible signs of age—is more likely to be dismissed, scrutinized, or mocked. The rise in cosmetic surgery among men doesn’t erase that double standard—it highlights how intense and widespread the pressure to appear youthful has become. But even as more men experience that pressure, the burden still falls disproportionately on women. “Very 1970s” is dismissive. Sexism around aging is alive and well in 2025. Just look at how female celebrities over 40 are treated compared to their male counterparts—on red carpets, in casting, and in media coverage. The disparity is still glaring.

I get that everyone has preferences, but this feels like a non-problem. If someone posts a lot of pics, just scroll past if it’s too much for you. Some guys use photos to show versatility, professionalism, or simply because they know different clients are drawn to different vibes. It’s not necessarily about arrogance—sometimes it’s just marketing. If the pics don’t appeal, there are plenty of others to check out. Problem solved.

This is such a hot picture. He can work on my cars looking like that anytime he wants. 😍

I believe I may have been the one who told you to start one. I did see this thread when it first went up and mulled it over, but as the esteemed @BenjaminNicholas noted (esteemed among his many other amazing qualities) it can be a triggering topic. I’m not exactly eager—now or yesterday—to revisit what it was like to be mercilessly beaten by my father after coming out, or what it felt like to be kicked out of my home. Substance matters, absolutely—but so does protecting the parts of ourselves that took the longest to heal.

Just saw Maybe Happy Ending again and loved it even more the second time. This show is something special—smart, tender, and full of heart. The music stays with you, the performances are stunning, and the story is both intimate and surprisingly profound. I honestly think this will win Best Musical—and deservedly so. It’s rare to see a show that feels this original and emotionally resonant. If you haven’t seen it yet, run.

You’re so hot and you’re not even trying. 👏

Beautifully said. I think you’re spot on about how tech and dating app culture have rewired expectations—turning people into filters, stats, and swipes rather than complex, evolving humans. After losing my husband, I feel completely lost at times in this new tech era. I personally would not want to meet men the way the youth of today appear to be doing so. But that’s a separate topic. It’s heartbreaking to see intimacy treated like a byproduct of physical perfection, rather than something earned through vulnerability, time, and trust. I’ve also seen how attraction can deepen with emotional connection. You’re right—it requires patience, maturity, and an understanding that beauty shifts over time. The irony is, so many chase youth and “type,” only to find themselves lonelier and more disillusioned the longer they do. Your friend’s situation reflects a broader cultural problem, not a personal failing. We talk a lot about chemistry, but not enough about compatibility or emotional safety—and those are the foundations of the kind of intimacy I think you’re describing. I wish more people realized that hot fades, but home gets sexier.

Yes, people can go “too far” with cosmetic surgery in the public eye, and yes, Joan became a punchline to some—but that’s exactly the point. When a man ages, he’s allowed to become “distinguished,” “weathered,” or “a character.” When a woman does anything to navigate aging—whether she ages naturally or chooses surgery—she’s often mocked, dissected, or erased. Joan didn’t pretend the surgery didn’t happen. She turned it into material. She took the thing that people used to tear her down and beat them to the punch with it. That’s power. That’s survival. To say “only the ones who go too far get called grotesque” ignores who gets to define “too far.” Those judgments are rarely neutral. They’re steeped in gender bias, ageism, and the ever-moving goalposts of beauty. The same surgery that’s called “empowering” on one woman gets called “desperate” on another, depending on how likable, quiet, or compliant she is. Joan never played by those rules. She dared to be loud, opinionated, and unapologetically visible in a culture that punishes women for all three. That’s not just cosmetic—that’s radical.

Sex is easy. Real connection — especially for gay men — is fucking hard. And that’s what I worry about as the sands of time keep falling. We celebrate bodies, but we rarely sit still long enough to celebrate souls. We scroll, we swipe, we perform — but intimacy? Vulnerability? That’s where so many of us flinch. I think, generally speaking, gay men have developed an aversion to intimacy. Maybe it’s the trauma we carry. The shame we were taught. Or the fear of being truly seen. But as I get older, I’m realizing I don’t want more sex. I want more truth.

I don’t know if desperate’s the right word. You’re talking about lazy bottoms!! The worst kind for sure.

Was that part of the time? Did you join them?

Many providers who advertise as “top only” are bottoms/vers in their personal life. I’ve known a few. It’s the prep that’s the issue. They can see more clients as a top. And some frankly have really big dicks and they advertise/market well with that.

I’m not sure I’m fully following how this ties into the topic of provider pet peeves. Are you saying that ads with language like naturally born men only or the chastity stuff are turn-offs for you when you’re browsing providers? Just trying to understand the connection a bit better.

Interesting how a woman trying to survive in a brutal, youth-obsessed, male-dominated industry gets reduced to a “handbag” for daring to age under the spotlight. Joan’s face didn’t offend people—her refusal to disappear did. It’s not the surgery that made people uncomfortable. It’s that she owned it, joked about it, and made it impossible to ignore the double standard. Men age into “character.” Women get called grotesque. And yet, for all that so-called baggage, Joan built a career in a system designed to silence her. She turned pain into punchlines. Some called it abrasive—others called it truth. Men are called fearless for doing the same. It’s easy to pick apart a woman’s edge. It’s harder to admit the world is what sharpened it.

Rather than look for them, start one. Post something in the lounge and we can have a substantive discussion.

I’m pretty easygoing in these matters and I can let a lot roll off my shoulders—and I have! That said, the one thing that really gets to me is when a provider isn’t fully present, or when there’s an unspoken vibe that I should feel lucky just to be with them. It’s rare, thankfully, but when it happens, it leaves a pretty shitty feeling. Mutual respect and genuine connection—however brief—go a long way.

Don Rickles was called a legend. Joan was called mean. The difference? Joan was a woman.

You could simply say that since this is your first meeting, you’d prefer to keep it to two hours and see how he responds. That initial meeting with a new provider is important — you want to feel comfortable, and he wants to feel valued and respected. In my opinion, the worst thing you can do is get into a negotiation or back-and-forth. The longer that goes on, the greater the chances of the encounter feeling strained.

Funny, I have the same reaction when I see one of your posts. 😘