DWnyc

“The check’s in the mail …”

My favorites are the ones who don’t reply within a reasonable time or suddenly ghost you in the middle of back and forth … and then out of the blue suddenly start bombarding you with replies and immediately Move to “are you actually serious about meeting? Let me know asap!” Opportunity cost is what the economists call it, I believe.

Most of these guys are nowhere near your geography and will be swapping out profiles and their own burner numbers regularly, and are targeting hundreds of folks, so the odds are that in a few weeks he himself will have no record of you. I travel a lot for work and every so often I’ll recognize a profile pic I often see in my home city (one from which you’d never suspect anything odd) and while I initially thought it meant that person was traveling too there were just too many of them and I’m sure many of these are scammers posting in multiple locations. They are also “too good to be true” - very attractive folks looking to meet you after just a couple of texts, loving everything about you, being into exactly what you are etc. And because some are automated (AI getting increasingly sophisticated) or based overseas (with no offense to anyone) - look out for bad English or language that doesn’t seem naturally flowing.

I’m pretty sure WhatsApp and telegram can be screenshot …

What round are you winning here exactly? I don’t think those on here who have a policy of not paying deposits have been swayed by your arguments (together with your frequent references to - as you put it “what could happen when one doesn’t” with naughty smiley, which reinforces some fears for many of u)s. And that’s fine. Some here seem to be ok with deposits - and you can stick with clients like those. The world has not changed in the last 48 hours 😊

Similarly I would assume most providers on this website aspire to be high integrity etc while there is a real world out there where that might not be the case.

I don’t think the issue is “can a cheap flaky client really not afford a $25 or $50 deposit?” Or — “we pay deposits for other professional services, why not for this”. Framing it that way removes a key issue in this conundrum because that is not the true cost to the client. Firstly, when I’ve been asked for a deposit it’s never been that low an ask - it’s ranged between $100 (out of a $300 total donation) to the full amount. On one occasion (the only time I have paid) it was for the full amount so that the provider could pay for the hotel room where we were supposed to meet that he only told me at the last minute he hadn’t secured (and surprise surprise the money I sent via Venmo hadn’t come through in time, the room was no longer available, times were tough and he couldn’t give me a cash refund but he would make up the time which he never did). This was someone I’d seen before and he is highly rated with 100% 5 stars etc etc, so what could possibly go wrong? Secondly if it is really a token deposit of $25 or $50 to show good faith it doesn’t solve the problem of an appointment not kept because a client won’t want to lose his money. If I’m prepared to pay $300 upwards for this experience, I can afford to lose $25 if my plans change and I want to cancel for whatever reason. And the amount is too low to compensate the provider’s time if the client bails at the last minute. So that deposit is much more than the money - it’s about the provider having some leverage over the client in a world where most prefer discretion, and that is of far greater risk and value to the client than the dollar amount.

Well I’m sure there are some “cheaters” but what are we really saying - we’re worried leaving a paper trail exposes clients to providers chasing them for some reason afterward (that may expose “cheaters”). But also anyone who wants discretion for whatever reason - and there are plenty. For some that discretion is why they seek out providers in the first place. Besides when did this business become the moral police re individuals personal relationship status? Yes it’s 2023 - a lot can be done with someone’s identity, financial app details etc. And of course one of the biggest reasons for not paying a deposit is not knowing if the provider will actually show up or deliver.

Come now, aren’t 90% of the discussions on here repetitions of prior ones? Clients are also taking risks including either letting a stranger into their place or visiting someone else’s territory. Many clients - for a range of reasons - require anonymity and no paper trail for payments. That part of the hobby is not going to change any time soon. And that is why deposits for any other service are not comparable.

This seems very true from anecdotal experience. I constantly hear bi / straight guys say that they stay away from Prep and other services primarily because they don’t want prescriptions or services in their record. They don’t want the risk of their partners, employers, the government etc finding out. Or be put in a category by their insurance companies. Regardless of if that is a rational position it needs to be addressed for true disease prevention / protection of others. In some countries you can walk into a pharmacy and buy prep and other antiretrovirals without a prescription but that doesn’t address regular testing and monitoring for side effects.

Re #1: ditto Re #2: no that’s not what it means at all. It means I will pay you for services actually delivered, not those I have no indication of if you are able or willing to provide. And it also means I don’t want to leave a paper trail. Re: #3: paying you a deposit does not guarantee you are making plans for me, or plans for me in the way that I want and am paying for. I have no confirmation of that until we meet. Your concerns are legitimate and there may be a happy medium. But your positions are not absolute truths like you keep making them out to be. Or rather, your absolute truths are matched by those on the other side. I can empathize with you, I hope you can with me as well.

It got sold a few years ago and they even had a closing party. The sale fell through but it’s prime real estate operating a dwindling business model so I don’t expect it to be around much longer.

Doesn’t change anything my friend. I will never pay deposits to a provider. And if that doesn’t work for him, and that’s totally his prerogative, that’s fine because he won’t be getting my business and we can go our separate ways. As always, good luck to you 😊

Bad guy providers (and there are a ton of them out there) understand this fully and take advantage of it all the time. And there’s their standard M.O. “you’re donating for my time, not specific services”. I’m definitely net negative on all my hires, but the positives have been great so it compensates. Plus I kind of look at this all as an extension of reality (rather than the perfect fantasy it perhaps should be if donating), so I’m likely more tolerant of calculated / disingenuous nonsense.

I would turn the question around. As a provider if it’s clear from the appointment setting phase (as it often is) that someone is interested in something that isn’t a natural fit for you, would you say “sorry, not a match”?

Also be careful with geolocations some apps like sniffles have a default setting that can show anyone exactly where you are unless you hide or choose another location with the paid version Grindr is easy to work backwards from particularly if you are trying to see if someone is in a particular location (again unless you adjust the default settings)

Many clients will never pay a deposit - never. They would rather not see a provider. Which tells me there will always be providers willing to operate without taking a deposit. This business hardly has tough entry and exit criteria.

I would say here, since it is a business, if there is sufficient evidence (a pattern seen with multiple folks with similar features, or the provider says so literally or almost literally) the provider should be exposed for whatever criteria they have if they don’t have it in their ad. If they really do reject clients who are older or fatter or not of the ethnicity they want as a donor, and if that is not clear in their profile (likely as they don’t want to sound like an ass) let the world know and the world can decide how to react. But of course one has to be very very certain before launching such a campaign against someone’s livelihood.

My vehement opposition to deposits (paper trail aside) is that I’ve never had one returned where I’ve felt it should have been; providers suddenly switch from being “so professional” business folk to blubbering “almost destitute” types - “I can’t give it back … I spent it for rent / groceries / my family etc. you don’t know how tough things are for me right now ..,” (even though it wasn’t theirs to spend until the appointment was over). Not saying everyone taking a deposit would be like this, but this business seems to exhibit Jeckyl and Hyde behavior more than most.

Oh the fun you’ll be giving the folks hacking into your mailing tool from countries we are apparently at war with (cyber, trade and otherwise)

One has to be a bit of both, among other things, these days

I filled out an online application 3 weeks ago and they’re still reviewing it. I’ve opened a bunch of other accounts and CDs in the meantime. Ding.

Agree with that 100% not always a bad thing

Never my birthday - that’s just too personal info to share with a provider (before getting into the potential security implications) I would be horrified if I got one on V-day from a provider (I’m horrified by some I get from real life contacts) … but Christmas, new year, thanksgiving etc quite regularly - and I take it for what it is, good business, civility, and perhaps even sincerity. I always reciprocate in kind and unless there is a specific ask / offer mentioned (which there often is - “for the holidays I’m reducing my rates …” etc) I just restrict it to a direct response to the greeting. I wished a provider happy Christmas when seeing him right before the holidays one year, he got a bit gruff and said he had no family he was close to, it was just another day to him … it opened the door to a lengthy conversation about how he had no real friends and whether he was happy with that. This was as I was leaving and caused me to linger for a while (fully clothed, one foot out the door). There was almost a “do you wanna hang out just as friends right now” moment but probably only in my head - so I didn’t push it - and I said to him he could call me if he ever felt he needed company - just as friends - in the way i call him when I feel I need company … he laughed and said he wouldn’t be able to afford me. Yes there’s a deep message there and I’ll keep it to myself

I would say ask away the ones that get uppity about you crossing a line are very much in the minority or channeling another reason they don’t want to deal with you (eg age, race etc) Providers know full well if an inquiry comes in through one of the Rm sites what expectations can be. but clients should also understand that a provider’s polite setting of boundaries on what they offer is different from them being offended